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[Datawhore]

Two things I'd like to add:

1) Just because a marketplace will exist to pay for downloadable content, doesn't mean there still won't be FREE content available on the marketplace. (Just like how some Xbox Live content is free, other content is paid for.) Game demos, multiplayer maps, new skins, etc. could all easily be free.

2) Accept the possibility that the Xenon will launch without any kind of HD movie capability (HD-DVD, BR), but that this could become an accessory in 2006/2007 (unlikely) or as a revision to the hardware when the PS3 comes out (more likely).

 

[Nerevar]

Allard outlines keynote, uses Xenon name for the first time:
Interesting, given all the stuff around GDC to date has used next-generation Xbox.

It's probably nothing - keep in mind the guy has been heavily involved in the project which has been internally referred to as "Xenon" since day 1. I'm guessing he just let it slip during regular conversation.

 

[Hiro_Kunimi_80]

The plan at that time(according to my Dolby Contact) was for "a version of the next generation XBOX" to have HD-DVD....
....

a "version of "
is not like " all version of xbox2 will have a HdDvd"
xbox2 "basic" = dvd
xbox2 "multimedia" = hdDvd

 

[Datawhore]

The two model problem can easily be overcome if MS makes all games standard on DVD as the base format a TCR requirement. If the publisher wants to release a HD-DVD version too (instead of say two DVDs), maybe they'll be more than welcome to.

Personally, I think that 7GB is plenty for 95% of all games over the next 5 years. Any game exceeding that capacity can use multi-DVDs. This doesn't mean a HD-DVD hw upgrade or accessory doesn't interest me - it certainly does. For HD movies!

 

[Pimpwerx]

I still hope they include HD-DVD in there. But if not, I can understand offering two SKUs. They'll just make sure all Xenon games come on a DVD-9. The HD-DVD SKU will only be able to playback movies, like the Panasonic Qube, or whatever. Still, if they can, I'd much rather see an HD-DVD drive. PEACE.

 

[Azih]

and maybe Xbox2 'Gamer' = harddrive pack in but no HD-DVD.


Anyway MS seems to be using GDC as the CPU/Live show. I guess it makes sense as those are important issues from a development prespective. Plenty of other 'details' left for E3 I guess.

 

[gofreak]

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20050309/msdev.htm

That article is hard to read, but heh, I had that demo running on my PC just yesterday. So before anyone suggests it, no, this isn't a Xenon demo

 

[Hiro_Kunimi_80]

The two model problem can easily be overcome if MS makes all games standard on DVD as the base format a TCR requirement. If the publisher wants to release a HD-DVD version too (instead of say two DVDs), maybe they'll be more than welcome to.

Personally, I think that 7GB is plenty for 95% of all games over the next 5 years. Any game exceeding that capacity can use multi-DVDs. This doesn't mean a HD-DVD hw upgrade or accessory doesn't interest me - it certainly does. For HD movies!

what about a dual side + dual layer version ? ( 18gb )instead of 2 dvd ?

i'm totally agree on a 7Gb for games over next years

 

[Shogmaster]

what about a dual side + dual layer version ? ( 18gb )instead of 2 dvd ?

Probably cheaper to go with 2 DVDs, and going over to your XBox 2 to flip the disc or swapping disc is about the same experience, so I don't see the benefit of double sided. Also, publishers want printed label on one side as well, so that's a negative for double sided.

i'm totally agree on a 7Gb for games over next years

Me three.

 

[Kleegamefan]

That article is hard to read, but heh, I had that demo running on my PC just yesterday. So before anyone suggests it, no, this isn't a Xenon demo

Never said it was....just posted a japanese article/pix I found....

 

[Doom_Bringer]

what does the bat pics demonstrate?

 

[gofreak]

Penny Arcade says:

For example, you might have seen the two Gamespy pieces on the next Xbox, based not on internal information but what they've gleaned from developers currently using the kits. I know that it isn't one hundred percent correct - as I understand it the machine is superior to these prophecies in one major area - but the power of the equipment they are describing is already enough to set the heart alight.

Please be RAM?

 

[AtomicShroom]

· Marketplace. Browseable by game, by genre, and in a number of other ways, the Marketplace will provide a one-stop shop for consumers to acquire episodic content, new game levels, maps, weapons, vehicles, skins and new community-created content.

· Micro-transactions. Breaking down barriers of small-ticket online commerce, micro-transactions will allow developers and the gaming community to charge as little as they like for content they create and publish on Marketplace. Imagine players slapping down $.99 to buy a one-of-a-kind, fully tricked-out racing car to be the envy of their buddies.

Fuck off Microsoft! I don't like the idea of purchasing a game that is not "complete" and that can't be "complete" unless I'm willing to pay more money for it. I don't like the idea of said acquired content not being on a physical game disc that I can own. I don't like the idea that, at some point in the future, if something wrong happens with my Xbox 2, and I want to play that said old game again, I will have to pay again just to download that said content. I want my games to be complete and come on an old-fashioned game disc. Downloadable content is okay if it's free.

And I certainly don't like the idea of people paying in order to get better cars/weapons that will give them an edge in a game. This is flat out stupid.

Burn in hell MS!

 

[gofreak]

Never said it was....just posted a japanese article/pix I found....

I know, I was just being preemptive

The bat demo is showing off PRT lighting or some such. I'd get you a full description, but I don't have the DXSDK on this PC.

 

[GashPrex]

What time is Allard's address tonight?

oh and PA weighs in on the announcement and gamespy

I don't remember GDC historically being all that rich a trove for our kind, "our kind" being the ravenous consumers of electronic entertainment, as opposed to those who produce it with the sweat of their brow. I might just be imagining it, but it has started to become a sort of fixed firing position from which the "big dogs" of the industry fire salvos in advance of E3.

For example, you might have seen the two Gamespy pieces on the next Xbox, based not on internal information but what they've gleaned from developers currently using the kits. I know that it isn't one hundred percent correct - as I understand it the machine is superior to these prophecies in one major area - but the power of the equipment they are describing is already enough to set the heart alight. More interesting even than the raw numbers are the policies they plan to implement for developers, which they suggest are things like compulsory live functionality, custom soundtracks, widescreen, and 720p.

We'll see concrete details on "Xenon" today, I'd imagine. Call it a hunch. Or insider information, or whatever.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/

oh and here is allard from last night, talking about the Xenon and what they will show tonight

http://www.major-nelson.com/blogcast/GDC-3-8-05-mp3.mp3

 

[Fafalada]

Please be RAM?

No no, that camera is actually 10GPix :lol
Ok that'd probably just be too mean, even for PA guys.

 

[LakeEarth]

I can't believe after all that bitching about micro-transactions, no one mentioned this...

Micro-transactions. Breaking down barriers of small-ticket online commerce, micro-transactions will allow developers and the gaming community to charge as little as they like for content they create and publish on Marketplace. Imagine players slapping down $.99 to buy a one-of-a-kind, fully tricked-out racing car to be the envy of their buddies.

Meaning the 99 cent point was just an example. We might get 15 cent cars for all we know.

 

[gofreak]

What time is Allard's address tonight?

10.30am PST, an hour and 20 mins away.

 

[quin]

In an older EGM wasn't there a quote by Kaz saying that he wanted to make a marketplace for Gran Tourismo where users could by, sell and trade all things Gran Tourismo? Wouldn't that be kinda the same thing Microsft is talking about?

 

[bitwise]

In an older EGM wasn't there a quote by Kaz saying that he wanted to make a marketplace for Gran Tourismo where users could by, sell and trade all things Gran Tourismo? Wouldn't that be kinda the same thing Microsft is talking about?

yes

would be highly surprised if PS3 doesnt have a similar content buying system. I don't think only MS will be doing this.

 

[GashPrex]

10.30am PST, an hour and 20 mins away.

thanks

<glues ass to chair>

 

[Legal Step]

Megaton!!! Sell your whatevers it's all over.

 

[Rob]

For those of you who think the PS2 hype machine was the all time worst, you obviously have forgotten about Nintendo and "project reality."

K Lee, you remember. Gamefan, along with every other magazine was talking Nintendo's machine up like it was a pure silicon graphics workstation. I'm still waiting for the N64 to do real time ray tracing :lol I can also remember certain magazine journalists who actually thought sticking with cartridges was a GOOD idea. :lol

Folks, you're just going to have to NOT let yourself get caught up in hype. Visually, tech demos are almost always going to look better than any actual games on a system. They do not have to ration a system's power among multiple aspects of a game such as A.I., level design, sound, etc.

Regarding the announcement from MS....

1.) I'm ecstatic about 100% high def support.

2.) I'm ecstatic about 100% custom soundtrack ability.

3.) The gamer card idea is nice if you're an online player. I'm not much into online play so I guess I'm indifferent to it. If I was I'd probably be happy about it.

4.) I'm not particularly crazy about the online commerce idea. .99 for a car here, 5.00 for a level there. Bah, screw that! I'm just one of those guys who thinks that if you release a game for purchase, it needs to be finshed, complete, done (roster updates excluded). Same goes with pay per play. If I pay 50 bucks for a game and am paying for an online service, no extra charge should be required.

I plan on being a 1 console owner this generation because I simply do not have the time or the money to support multiple systems anymore. To me, MS can announce all the impressive hype they want but unless I know that companies like Capcom, Konami, Namco, Square-Enix, etc are 100% commited, I am simply not biting. Lack of Japanese support is a big reason why I've enjoyed PS2 over Xbox this generation.

Yes I've read about former creator this and once head of development that. However keep in mind these are still startup companies that haven't proven a thing yet. We'll see, but when PS3 is announced along with a new Castlevania, Final Fantasy, Tekken, etc. It's game over for Xenon as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Baron]

So is it backwards compatible?

 

[Prine]

What ever Microsoft intend to do im going to support them all the way. This information cements my appreciation for the company and what they're doing for the industry.

Id like to make a toast to Xbox 360 future success.

 

[COCKLES]

IT BEGINS

The year the great war came upon us all.

 

[Rob]

What ever Microsoft intend to do im going to support them all the way.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I'd like to submit fanboy exhibit A.

 

[Gattsu25]

Ugh...

not fond of this priced downloadable content (wasn't this shit free for years on the PC? ugh...deja vu)

also hoping that the online distributed games thing that Sony was talking about doesn't come into effect

 

[eso76]

i don't know about the 7gb thing...
RSC2 fills up a dual layer with just textures, models and graphics; no videos or large amounts of audio, there.
And we expect texture quality and model complexity to increase drastically in next gen titles...

 

[Kleegamefan]

But Dual-layer DVDs are "enough" right?

 

[gofreak]

What ever Microsoft intend to do im going to support them all the way.

Really? Whatever they do? Hmm...

j/k, just playing with ya

 

[Prine]

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I'd like to submit fanboy exhibit A.

so?

 

[Particle Physicist]

What ever Microsoft intend to do im going to support them all the way. This information cements my appreciation for the company and what they're doing for the industry.

Id like to make a toast to Xbox 360 future success.

you like paying for downloadable content.. on top of a subscription fee to get online with those games?

if anything, this is a glimpse of the direction i dont want gaming to go.

 

[Blimblim]

i don't know about the 7gb thing...
RSC2 fills up a dual layer with just textures, models and graphics; no videos or large amounts of audio, there.
And we expect texture quality and model complexity to increase drastically in next gen titles...

You are right, and also wrong. In RSC2 each race track has got its own file, totally independant from any other track even if they are in the same environment. Basically DiCE modeled some big environments with roads everywhere, then they exported each track (3d models AND textures). So if you have a 250 Mbytes track file, and another 200 Mbytes file from the same scenary, you can be sure they have 80% of assets in common. Heck there is even texture duplication INSIDE the same track file.
If you only count each texture/3d model once, I'm sure the game is not even 2 GBytes big.
Of course there is a very good reason why they did that (streaming).

 

[Wulfer]

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I'd like to submit fanboy exhibit A.

What does that make you? You just said it's game over for M$ as soon as Castlevania, Final Fantasy, Tekken have been announced yet no annoucements have been made. Pot meet kettle...

 

[Mrbob]

Fuck off Microsoft! I don't like the idea of purchasing a game that is not "complete" and that can't be "complete" unless I'm willing to pay more money for it. I don't like the idea of said acquired content not being on a physical game disc that I can own. I don't like the idea that, at some point in the future, if something wrong happens with my Xbox 2, and I want to play that said old game again, I will have to pay again just to download that said content. I want my games to be complete and come on an old-fashioned game disc. Downloadable content is okay if it's free.

And I certainly don't like the idea of people paying in order to get better cars/weapons that will give them an edge in a game. This is flat out stupid.

Burn in hell MS!

Couple points:

1) Why do you think you will have to pay again to download content you already paid for? If MS is smart all charges are linked to your Live! account and you should be clear to download extra premium content again if you have to buy another Xbox 2.

2) Do you buy sequels? No game is ever really "complete". Sequels tend to expand upon and fix the faults of the original.

 

[Aizu_Itsuko]

Also, here's a direct link to those PS2 demo screenshots I was talking about:

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=25708 (there are fullsize, direct feed versions in there somewhere amid the smaller pics and scans)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I've a feeling that gofreak is talking about this other thread as I don't see any direct feed screenshot in the link he posted. They're both pretty similar.

Sorry if I'm mistaken gofreak.


BTW, the Raven demo is much more complex than anything I've seen running on an actual Xbox (even though I'm sure MS could make a real time tech demo on the system that surpasses the NV15 one). The rest of the Xbox tech demos don't show anything that hasn't been surpassed by actual Xbox games in the last few years.

As for hype, they are all guilty of it.
Both, Sony and MS hype their hardware and any extras it could have, and Nintendo either hypes their hw when they have an advantage in this area (Snes, N64), or hypes any new feature/their own games. They're investing billions into this market; I mean, what do you want them to say, "this next gen will offer a moderately good jump over the previous one, although it has still to be proved if it can offer anything new or interesting to the table"? Truth be told, when a company is aggressive with their strategies people say that they're "bastard liars", and when the opposite happens people starts making assumptions about the company running out of the business, mergers, or just have the impression that they're not competing hard enough (Nintendo this gen). That, or people just like to bitch

 

[teepo]

ever wondered why gamecube version of multiplatform games have textures which look compressed, much much shittier cinemas and worse sound? oh yeh... say goodbye to hd cgi in games.

 

[eso76]

You are right, and also wrong. In RSC2 each race track has got its own file, totally independant from any other track even if they are in the same environment.

Ahh, i see. So even if two tracks share 90% of the scenery, all the info about textures and scenery is doubled...i actually found it hard the game itself would take up so many GB's, but i never thought that's how rsc2's tracks were stored. Makes sense though, for the streaming.

 

[Blimblim]

Ahh, i see. So even if two tracks share 90% of the scenery, all the info about textures and scenery is doubled...i actually found it hard the game itself would take up so many GB's, but i never thought that's how rsc2's tracks were stored. Makes sense though, for the streaming.

Now you know

 

[Rob]

What does that make you? You just said it's game over for M$ as soon as Castlevania, Final Fantasy, Tekken have been announced yet no annoucements have been made. Pot meet kettle...

Wulfer, go back and read my post again. What I was saying was that the biggest reason I preferred the PS2 over the Xbox was because of Japanese support. Xbox had horrible Japanese support and if this does not change for Xenon, it's game over for me with MS. I'm simply stating what my gaming preferences are and that I will buy whatever system meets those preferences.

That is a world of difference from "whatever MS intends to do, I'm with them all the way." I didn't say that about Sony or Nintendo did I? I don't quite understand how you think what he said and what I said are basically the same thing.

 

[sonycowboy]

OK.

We've got 4 threads basically about the samething (Xbox360 partial unveiling) running at the same time with the same info being posted in all of them.

Which one do you guys want to focus in on? Please! I think this one works best, but I feel like I have to check them all to make sure I haven't missed anything. Mods, do your magic

 

[eso76]

Now you know

you know lots of interesting stuff : D

 

[gofreak]

OK.

We've got 4 threads basically about the samething (Xbox360 partial unveiling) running at the same time with the same info being posted in all of them.

Which one do you guys want to focus in on? Please! I think this one works best, but I feel like I have to check them all to make sure I haven't missed anything. Mods, do your magic

Klee's is better, i think, because it's cleaner. The official press release(s) should be out shortly and that'd be a nice place to collect everything together, while the thread is still relatively young.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

pretty typical stuff, sony does the exact same shit.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

One thing I keep wondering...

Each generation has made a substantial leap form the previous generation...but with that something else has come with it.

Each generation has looked substantially DIFFERENT from the previous. Not in simply the fact that it looks better, but in that it really looks quite different.

Snes- PSX brought texturemapped 3d (i don't recall any snes games with textures)

PSX- PS2 brought texture filtering and 640x480 res (which was pretty rare prior...athough some n64 games did it).

Both of these served to give games a look pretty much completely different than games of the previous generation.


With this generation, will we see the same striking difference or will it just be a high res, high detail version of what we have now?

 

[Diffense]

OK, let's leave out the final boss.

Let them play $1.00 for him.

I don't know if I like this idea too much. It just means we are going to pay for what could and should be free and think it's a deal.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

With this generation, will we see the same striking difference or will it just be a high res, high detail version of what we have now?

I am confident you will see an order of magnitude in detail over the current generation. Lighting, shadows, physics, poly count, texture detail, ... will all improve.

 

[KyotoMecca]

... linked to your Live! account and you ...

Why on EARTH some people insist on putting an exclamation mark after Xbox Live is beyond me. It REALLY irritates me! It is not "Live!" and never has been. It is not like "Vodafone Live!" which does have one. Please, please stop it.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Most of you are among the most jaded, cynical fucks I've ever come across on the internets. I don't know whether you'll take that as a compliment or insult, but damn!

Offering additional content immediately means A GAME IS INCOMPLETE OMG!11! It certainly means a dev/pub is going to half-ass everyfucking thing they're working.

Yah, that would go over real well with anyone with half a brain.