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[Roto13]

Sony did the exact same thing.

lol no

 

[PhatSaqs]

In this thread, more asshurt "gamers" complain about shit that they never had to deal with in the first place.

 

[legacyzero]

Are the rape comparisons coming next? Come on, now.

No, not at all. I just think it's tough to want to trust a company that wanted to launch a console with the worst possible, anti-consumer policies, and then just act like everything is ok once they change their minds. I actually was really excited about a next gen Xbox, too. It's gonna take a lot more than that to get my loyalty back. Surely I'm not the only one that agrees.

People that entrenched won't ever understand; Microsoft is STILL to this VERY WEEK even releasing deceptive PR or delaying or otherwise changing fundamental aspects of their XBO for launch. Look at the uproar over Major Nelson and Albert Penello's misleading and ridiculous downplaying of PS4's power with salacious and inaccurate bullshit about how to tabulate XBO's own power.


The "bash fest" - which, by the way, is nothing more than EARNED CRITICISM - won't go away until all this shit stops happening and the system stops retaining some of its critical negatives like forcing everyone to pay an extra $100 for Kinect and having every fucking thing behind a paywall as well as stop with the deceptive PR. On top of that, the XBO launch has to stop seeming like a tumultuous ship stuck in a hurricane, because they keep delaying or changing stuff that people were expecting around launch, and it's extremely frustrating.

In fact, they need to release an iconographic indicating all the shit that has been changed about the XBO post 180s. It's seriously massive. On top of that, Albert promised NeoGAF a chart indicating which Kinect voice functionality will work in what 13 countries for launch, and he has still - weeks later - not delivered on that promise.

So, yeah. Anyone who thinks this persistent criticism is now unwarranted is just refusing to acknowledge how fucked up things STILL are. To say nothing of the fact that what Microsoft did was cause a crisis of trust, and it's going to take YEARS before people fully get over it - just like it took Sony. Why should Microsoft be any different when what they were attempting to do was a trillion times worse than anything Sony was tryin' to do with PS3?

BOOM.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

This is so dumb. It means they have that asterisk indefinitely and there's sure to be a little retail confusion ("it needs online?" "no... well just for like an hour upfront')

Day one users will definitely require internet connection.

When they relaunch it in 2014 without the "Day One" badge, it will most likely come preinstalled with latest firmware and won't require internet.

I'm surprised why they can't ship the games with latest firmware to avoid this fiasco.

 

[Goodacre0081]

Yeah, it does require internet during initial setup. Says in the fine prints in the bottom. Its a DRM-enabled Reversal. Hope that make sense!

why can't MS just update the consoles before they ship, have these systems been sitting in a warehouse since may21st?

 

[Garrett 2U]

This is so dumb. It means they have that asterisk indefinitely and there's sure to be a little retail confusion ("it needs online?" "no... well just for like an hour upfront')

You know, once they finish development on the OS they can update the software that they install onto the factory units.
It's just these early units that will need an update because the OS isn't done.

 

[Amir0x]

In this thread, more asshurt "gamers" complain about shit that they never had to deal with in the first place.

in this thread more Xbox fans continue to remain delusional over why people remain pissed

 

[SkullHydra]

This was possibly my favorite thing to come out of E3. The timing was absolutely perfect.

 

[tfur]

Yeah, it does require internet during initial setup. Says in the fine prints in the bottom. Its a DRM-enabled Reversal. Hope that make sense!

So there is no reversal, until the required internet connection.

How will this effect people who never connect? Game disks will not be trade-able?

 

[Mung]

Sony did the exact same thing.

They got a 20 minute standing ovation for it, if I recall.

Do people even think before they type?

If it wasn't for that Sony move, I'm certain that MS would be going full steam ahead with 'Plan A'. Really, it's Sony (along with consumers) who forced their hand. They had little choice in the end.

 

[Blearth]

lol no

Did you even read the post I quoted?

It really rubs me up the wrong way how they're trying to make "We decided not to fuck you over!" into a selling point.

Sony did do exactly that. And got the most facepalm worthy standing ovation ever because of it.

"PS4 works just like PS3!"

Spoiler

"Except his time you have to pay more to go online!"

*uproarious applause lasting 37 minutes*

 

[The Flash]

*reads through thread*

 

[oVerde]

lol I can hear he saying "thanks" every loop of this gif

In this thread, more asshurt "gamers" complain about shit that they never had to deal with in the first place.

Ouch!

 

[Quadraphonic]

This is less of an apology and more pretending that it never was bad in the first place. I think the backlash is from the lack of a mea culpa.

 

[onlyindreams]

LOL @ "We designed the Xbox One to..."

no you didn't you lying sacks of shit

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

Wasn't DRM reversal like a positive thing for most? Using this logic wouldn't it be a good thing to get that message out there? I bet there are still some people not aware of it and even if there aren't it's still a plus for Microsoft they should talk about it too.

Has anyone said the reversal (besides the direhard XB1 fans) was not a good thing? We're just commenting on how the damage is still so bad, that they feel the need to do this. It's crazy to think that some people still don't know about the reversal, but if you think about the massive coverage the DRM policies got, it's not surprising.

 

[Brinbe]

fuck them

 

[ultron87]

So there is no reversal, until the required internet connection.

How will this effect people who never connect? Game disks will not be trade-able?

Presumably your system just won't work because it won't have a complete functioning OS on it. It isn't going to somehow infect your game discs and make them not tradeable.

 

[legacyzero]

Did you even read the post I quoted?



Sony did do exactly that. And got the most facepalm worthy standing ovation ever because of it.

"PS4 works just like PS3!"

Spoiler

"Except his time you have to pay more to go online!"

*uproarious applause lasting 37 minutes*

That's not EVEN the same thing. Trying to compare Sony's paywall to Microsoft's horribly policies that they had to change is Apples and Oranges.

 

[Dual Blade]

Is there any tangible proof that Sony planned to implement DRM on the PS4? I mean, they must have discussed about it internally but did they plan to adopt it?
Sony didn't announce DRM policies and then backed out of it so no, they didn't do the same thing.

Also at the time media was reporting that Sony will follow suit and DRM is "here to stay". Everyone was wondering what their used game stance was and Sony clarified what it would be at E3. Applause followed suit. IIRC even Jack was shocked at the ovation.

MS didn't heed at any of the DRM failures on PC by ubisoft, EA, and others. They only listened when they saw Sony climb too far ahead in pre orders and hype. Arrogance and insults still flew from their mouths afterwards (Mattrick: our offline console is the 360, etc). That's where MS truly lost me as a consumer of their product (I was on the fence with the RROD in mind).

 

[Blearth]

That's not EVEN the same thing.

So Sony didn't use "we won't fuck you over" as a selling point?

Really?

 

[Biker19]

Damage has been done.

It's a real shame they feel the need to keep opening their mouths about this. Maybe a few will forgive but most of us remember what they had planned.

I agree with these. Even if they do get rid of all of the DRM policies, etc., people like myself would still be skeptical, as they could easily bring it back years down the road.

 

[SeanR1221]

People that entrenched won't ever understand; Microsoft is STILL to this VERY WEEK even releasing deceptive PR or delaying or otherwise changing fundamental aspects of their XBO for launch. Look at the uproar over Major Nelson and Albert Penello's misleading and ridiculous downplaying of PS4's power with salacious and inaccurate bullshit about how to tabulate XBO's own power.


The "bash fest" - which, by the way, is nothing more than EARNED CRITICISM - won't go away until all this shit stops happening and the system stops retaining some of its critical negatives like forcing everyone to pay an extra $100 for Kinect and having every fucking thing behind a paywall as well as stop with the deceptive PR. On top of that, the XBO launch has to stop seeming like a tumultuous ship stuck in a hurricane, because they keep delaying or changing stuff that people were expecting around launch, and it's extremely frustrating.

In fact, they need to release an iconographic indicating all the shit that has been changed about the XBO post 180s. It's seriously massive. On top of that, Albert promised NeoGAF a chart indicating which Kinect voice functionality will work in what 13 countries for launch, and he has still - weeks later - not delivered on that promise.

So, yeah. Anyone who thinks this persistent criticism is now unwarranted is just refusing to acknowledge how fucked up things STILL are. To say nothing of the fact that what Microsoft did was cause a crisis of trust, and it's going to take YEARS before people fully get over it - just like it took Sony. Why should Microsoft be any different when what they were attempting to do was a trillion times worse than anything Sony was tryin' to do with PS3?

I guess it comes down to priorities then.

Xbox one announced to block used games?

My reaction was "that sucks, I've been with MS since the original xbox. Well, I guess I have to go PS4 this gen"

Policies reversed?

"Ok cool, back to the xbox one now. I can keep my gamer tag, controller I like and franchises I like"

And that's the end of it. It's like you guys are perseverating on it. Honestly, from my perspective it's a little disturbing. But different priorities, like I said.

I'd rather stress, worry, complain about other things in my life that directly effect me and the people around me. Not my side hobby. Years to forgive MS? I dunno, just can't get behind that :/

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

We've reached the point where people give Microsoft shit just because its what they've been doing for the past 5 months. this thread is tame compared to the stuff from June.

 

[Zeth]

Hilarious that this is actually controversial. I imagine there are people here who would prefer MS put out flyers that detailed the policies they originally announced and reminded as many people as possible so they can make informed, pro-consumer purchasing decisions.

 

[Goodacre0081]

So there is no reversal, until the required internet connection.

How will this effect people who never connect? Game disks will not be trade-able?

maybe some retailers will allow those people to update at the store.

 

[tfur]

Presumably your system just won't work because it won't have a complete functioning OS on it. It isn't going to somehow infect your game discs and make them not tradeable.

Okay, that's even worse. That can't be right, can it?

Do we definitively know what will happen to those who never connect to the internet?

 

[Quanicus]

Its hard to remove shit from the shoes when you jump in with both feet!

 

[NullPointer]

So the headers in that leaflet - those are all the things Kinect is recording, right?

 

[SwiftDeath]

Did you even read the post I quoted?



Sony did do exactly that. And got the most facepalm worthy standing ovation ever because of it.

"PS4 works just like PS3!"

Spoiler

"Except his time you have to pay more to go online!"

*uproarious applause lasting 37 minutes*

Because people were applauding to pay for online right

Sony was and has been crystal clear that you would have to pay for PS+ for online multiplayer

XBO original policies led to this type of response

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1StPJgWkN-U

 

[Lambda Pie]

So Sony didn't use "we won't fuck you over" as a selling point?

Really?

difference is they never announced they were going to fuck us over.

 

[Skilletor]

I'd rather stress, worry, complain about other things in my life that directly effect me and the people around me. Not my side hobby. Years to forgive MS? I dunno, just can't get behind that :/

This might surprise you. I want you to sit down before you hear this news.

Ready?

Okay. Whew. Deep breaths.

You're on a videogame message board. What we do here, all the time, especially in the gaming section, is talk about videogames. Especially at the launch of new consoles, talk about videogames. Just because I'm posting that I dislike MS' policies and refuse to trust them again when things like this pop up does not mean I am stressing out about them or it. In fact, I only think about it when I'm posting here.

Sorry.

It had to be said. I hope you're okay after this revelation.

 

[Blearth]

difference is they never announced they were going to fuck us over.

Which has nothing to do with the post I quoted. Thanks for playing.

 

[grosvenor_92]

Gotta get those pre-order numbers up I suppose

 

[legacyzero]

So Sony didn't use "we won't fuck you over" as a selling point?

Really?

Absolutely not. They were clear about it from day one. Sure it sucks for a lot of people, but their communication was clear. Sony hasn't had to change ONE thing about their approach.

Which has nothing to do with the post I quoted. Thanks for playing.

It has everything to do with the post you quoted.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Okay, that's even worse. That can't be right, can it?

Do we definitively know what will happen to those who never connect to the internet?

They have to find someone who has an internet connection and update the box. Can't be that hard.

 

[SeanR1221]

This might surprise you. I want you to sit down before you hear this news.

Ready?

Okay. Whew. Deep breaths.

You're on a videogame message board. What we do here, all the time, especially in the gaming section, is talk about videogames. Especially at the launch of new consoles, talk about videogames. Just because I'm posting that I dislike MS' policies and refuse to trust them again when things like this pop up does not mean I am stressing out about them or it. In fact, I only think about it when I'm posting here.

Sorry.

It had to be said. I hope you're okay after this revelation.

Statements like "it will take me years to get over this" isn't the same as discussing what you like and dislike about games.

At least from my perspective.

 

[FreddieQuell]

Okay, that's even worse. That can't be right, can it?

Do we definitively know what will happen to those who never connect to the internet?

Are we seriously worrying about people with absolutely no access to an internet connection? And who will be picking up the first batch of xbone's, that's a little much.

 

[PhatSaqs]

Hilarious that this is actually controversial. I imagine there are people here who would prefer MS put out flyers that detailed the policies they originally announced and reminded as many people as possible so they can make informed, pro-consumer purchasing decisions.

Right. You know it's bad when people just refer back to some long winded explanation as to why they feel the way they do about this crap like instructions for a recipe. It's hilarious and sad.

 

[Biker19]

So Sony didn't use "we won't fuck you over" as a selling point?

Really?

If you honestly think that Sony was going to throw away all of that goodwill that they've built up for the PS4 after it took them many years to get the PS brand back on it's feet with the PS3, then I gotta laugh at you. They're not trying to be like Sega who had completely lost consumer's trust, even with the Dreamcast being good.

People that entrenched won't ever understand; Microsoft is STILL to this VERY WEEK even releasing deceptive PR or delaying or otherwise changing fundamental aspects of their XBO for launch. Look at the uproar over Major Nelson and Albert Penello's misleading and ridiculous downplaying of PS4's power with salacious and inaccurate bullshit about how to tabulate XBO's own power.

The "bash fest" - which, by the way, is nothing more than EARNED CRITICISM - won't go away until all this shit stops happening and the system stops retaining some of its critical negatives like forcing everyone to pay an extra $100 for Kinect and having every fucking thing behind a paywall as well as stop with the deceptive PR. On top of that, the XBO launch has to stop seeming like a tumultuous ship stuck in a hurricane, because they keep delaying or changing stuff that people were expecting around launch, and it's extremely frustrating.

In fact, they need to release an iconographic indicating all the shit that has been changed about the XBO post 180s. It's seriously massive. On top of that, Albert promised NeoGAF a chart indicating which Kinect voice functionality will work in what 13 countries for launch, and he has still - weeks later - not delivered on that promise.

So, yeah. Anyone who thinks this persistent criticism is now unwarranted is just refusing to acknowledge how fucked up things STILL are. To say nothing of the fact that what Microsoft did was cause a crisis of trust, and it's going to take YEARS before people fully get over it - just like it took Sony. Why should Microsoft be any different when what they were attempting to do was a trillion times worse than anything Sony was tryin' to do with PS3?

Exactly. This is what Xbox fanboys aren't getting.

 

[Blearth]

Absolutely not. They were clear about it from day one. Sure it sucks for a lot of people, but their communication was clear. Sony hasn't had to change ONE thing about their approach.

You keep changing the subject.

Did Sony use "we're not gonna fuck you over" as a selling point?

Yes.

End of discussion

 

[Lambda Pie]

Which has nothing to do with the post I quoted. Thanks for playing.

>

It has everything to do with the post you quoted.

 

[Amir0x]

I guess it comes down to priorities then.

Xbox one announced to block used games?

My reaction was "that sucks, I've been with MS since the original xbox. Well, I guess I have to go PS4 this gen"

Policies reversed?

"Ok cool, back to the xbox one now. I can keep my gamer tag, controller I like and franchises I like"

And that's the end of it. It's like you guys are perseverating on it. Honestly, from my perspective it's a little disturbing. But different priorities, like I said.

I'd rather stress, worry, complain about other things in my life that directly effect me and the people around me. Not my side hobby. Years to forgive MS? I dunno, just can't get behind that :/

"Disturbing?" That is the type of word you use to describe victims of Drone Attacks, not market conscious consumers who understand their dollar is important and constitutes a sort of de facto vote of approval for something's design philosophy.

And, by the way, nothing about understanding or thinking the criticism is warranted means that attitudes haven't changed. There has already been a pretty decent sized shift in positivity around XBO threads since the 180; it has been pretty noticeable. On top of that, individuals like me HAVE changed our minds a bit about XBO. Whereas before I was never ever going to get an XBO, after the 180s I intend to get an XBO after a few price drops - maybe when it hits $299.99. And the reason for this is simple: I can't trust Microsoft won't turn back on some of that horrific shit, and I also want Microsoft to understand that customers aren't just automatically going to get over this shit to teach them a lesson. Just like Sony had to learn the hard lesson that customer loyalty is limited, so does Microsoft. Sony emerged as a better company for it, and I expect Microsoft to either emerge as a better company or reveal what they have always been and allow me to avoid them in the future. Either way I, as a consumer, win.

But the fact remains that people deserve to still be angry and bitter, and the criticism is still absolutely warranted. Coming into the topic to bemoan and bitch about people criticizing the XBO as if it doesn't deserve it now is absurd. On top of that, as I said, Microsoft's horrendous XBO reveal and PR disaster caused a crisis of trust, and trust is something that is re-earned over time, it doesn't come over night. Anybody who has ever made a mistake should know that. I don't know why you think a faceless corporation should be any different. If anything, people should take longer to trust such corporations again. As I said, it took Sony years to recover from their loss of trust. It should take Microsoft years as well. Factor in that Microsoft is still fucking up as I outlined, and it's easy to accept the criticisms for what they are.

 

[Mung]

Which has nothing to do with the post I quoted. Thanks for playing.

People applauded because Sony did not try to fuck people over when their competition did. What don't you understand about this? MS's situation is totally different.

 

[ultron87]

Okay, that's even worse. That can't be right, can it?

Do we definitively know what will happen to those who never connect to the internet?

That's exactly what the fine print on the poster says.

*Your Xbox One doens't need to be connected to enjoy offline features of games. The only times you need an online connection are for initial setup of Xbox One, and to get the latest system and title updates before you start playing some games.

The second part of that phrase about "before you start playing some games" suggests an interesting insidious possibility for the more suspicious minded among you. If someone wants to make a thread entitled "Xbox One offline games to require online updates before play!" feel free.

 

[RobotRocker]

This is less of an apology and more pretending that it never was bad in the first place. I think the backlash is from the lack of a mea culpa.

A mea cupla only really matters to hardcore gamers lusting for blood as does the Pendello and Nelson stuff and who are emotionally invested in it for some strange reason. John and Jane Q. Public only want to know if the DRM is gone and if they can can sell their Halos back to Gamestop when they are done and don't care about Gunter McNeoGAF getting angry about corporate politics or who screwed who or what the PR guy says might contradict what 2nd hand developer information they have. So in that way, they are doing a good job, but should probably stop wading into hardcore spec dick waving.

 

[legacyzero]

You keep changing the subject.

Did Sony use "we're not gonna fuck you over" as a selling point?

Yes.

End of discussion

And? How is it even a problem, or relevant to the topic?

I mean, Wouldn't you?

 

[SeanR1221]

"Disturbing?" That is the type of word you use to describe victims of Drone Attacks, not market conscious consumers who understand their dollar is important and constitutes a sort of de facto vote of approval for something's design philosophy.

And, by the way, nothing about understanding or thinking the criticism is warranted means that attitudes haven't changed. There has already been a pretty decent sized shift in positivity around XBO threads since the 180; it has been pretty noticeable. On top of that, individuals like me HAVE changed our minds a bit about XBO. Whereas before I was never ever going to get an XBO, after the 180s I intend to get an XBO after a few price drops - maybe when it hits $299.99. And the reason for this is simple: I can't trust Microsoft won't turn back on some of that horrific shit, and I also want Microsoft to understand that customers aren't just automatically going to get over this shit to teach them a lesson. Just like Sony had to learn the hard lesson that customer loyalty is limited, so does Microsoft. Sony emerged as a better company for it, and I expect Microsoft to either emerge as a better company or reveal what they have always been and allow me to avoid them in the future. Either way I, as a consumer, win.

But the fact remains that people deserve to still be angry and bitter, and the criticism is still absolutely warranted. Coming into the topic to bemoan and bitch about people criticizing the XBO as if it doesn't deserve it now is absurd. On top of that, as I said, Microsoft's horrendous XBO reveal and PR disaster caused a crisis of trust, and trust is something that is re-earned over time, it doesn't come over night. Anybody who has ever made a mistake should know that. I don't know why you think a faceless corporation should be any different. If anything, people should take longer to trust such corporations again. As I said, it took Sony years to recover from their loss of trust. It should take Microsoft years as well. Factor in that Microsoft is still fucking up as I outlined, and it's easy to accept the criticisms for what they are.

I think this entire post sums up how I feel about how ridiculous things have gotten. Ah well, it's why I stick to the OT section.

Relax. Play games. Have fun. Take a bubble bath.

 

[SeventhSon]

Kind of reeks of desperation. Stuff like this makes me wonder what their pre-order numbers are really looking like.

I want an investigative games journalist to uncover the numbers.

 

[HardRojo]

So Sony didn't use "we won't fuck you over" as a selling point?

Really?

Just stop please, you're trying way too hard when they're completely different things.