BishopLamont
Banned
This assurance makes me sleep better at night.
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Microsoft will "aggressively challenge" any gov't attempt to spy through Kinect
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Unless it's a secret court and you aren't even allowed to talk about the trial.
koji kabuto
Member
Are Microsoft trying to convince me that they are fighting the government for consumer rights??
What MS' comments are suggesting to me is that it's indeed technically possible to collect this data.
And lol @ "Absent a new law...," because they know there will be one when the NSA comes asking for data one day.
And lol @ "Absent a new law...," because they know there will be one when the NSA comes asking for data one day.
If they fought for us secretly, you know, in the shades, they must've lost every single battle. Poor MS.
Yeah thats how i read it as well, they are pretty much saying it can be done. It feels like their tasteless killer instinct e3 stage demo, except where are the ones being told "let it happen, it will be over soon".
Nope meant this
Because it's not until Kinect 3.0 that kinect can see through walls and alert the police of your activities/accidents that take place outside of the living room
That is possible today thanks to WLAN sniffing. It was proven some weeks ago, basically one can tell by the WLAN reception where somebody is standing or moving. Oh and you know who stores all your WLAN passwords unwncrypted on their servers? Google. Who has unrestricted access to Google's servers? The NSA. They don't need Kinect, they can already watch your every move without actually having to watch you.
funkystudent
Member
Getting murdered by Sony on price. General public worried its a spying device.
I hope MS is starting to see mandatory Kinect isnt worth it. I fully expect a dramatically cheaper Kinect-less Xbone by next E3
I hope MS is starting to see mandatory Kinect isnt worth it. I fully expect a dramatically cheaper Kinect-less Xbone by next E3
Alx
Member
Of course it's technically possible, why wouldn't it be ?
Maybe you shouldn't laugh at your country writing such shitty laws, and start doing something about that.
painful fart
Member
Yes that ad would fit the situation perfectly, but it needs to be texted so it doesn't shout down the voice of the doctor.
Alx
Member
What has Germany to do with any of this?
Then we should make sure that no foreign law can allow anybody to start spying on us Europeans.
(which I suppose is already the case, but enforcing international laws is sometimes difficult with the US).If it's "just for Skype", then it has nothing to do with kinect. Or you could say that the PSEye and the Vita are of use for the NSA too. The truth is that Skype is of use for the NSA.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
You don't want to destroy a good working relationship with the NSA.
This is going to end up as "oh we meant we won't give the nsa a live feed of your living room. Of course we give them access to the metadata tho, including who you are (via facial recognition), where you are and when, who you're associating with, your heart rate, height, eye colour, and everything you've ever said, near a kinect, converted into text. Oh and access to an archive of actual video. But we will never let them spy of you with live video! Rest assured."
hahahaha! So many people came with this line, it has become sort of a meme.
Punkster_NY
Member
But accessing Skype on the Xb1 is, ok? heh
Alx
Member
- "who you are (via facial recognition)" : they know it thanks to your live account, no need for a camera.
- "where you are" : you're in your living room (duh)
- " and when" : they know it through your connection log, no need for a camera
- ", who you're associating with" : there's no way they can identify other people... unless you're interacting through social networks. No need for a camera.
- ", your heart rate, height, eye colour, " : completely useless information
- "and everything you've ever said, near a kinect, converted into text." : that is private information indeed, and legally protected the same way your image is.
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painful fart
Member
Rollins best album by far!If you'll give me one more chance
I swear that I will never lie to you again
Because now I see the destructive power of a lie
They're stronger than truth
I can't believe I ever hurt you
I swear
I will never to you lie again, please
Just give me one more chance
I will never lie to you again
I swear
That I will never tell a lie
I will never tell a lie
No, no
Ha ha ha ha ha hah haa haa haa haaa
Sucker
Sucker!
Oh, sucker
I am a liar
Yeah, I am a liar
This song also fits the subject.
http://youtu.be/louQ7s1ZkGU
It's a lot easier to just make a random email address and sign up to live under a random username and be completely anonymous, using live subscription cards and point cards, than it would be if they force facial recognition, which is essentially a signature that identifies you, like a finger print.
Once they've established who you, and all the other people near a kinect are, they can estimate your location via an IP address, but they know who you're physically in the room with, which seems like it'd be pretty useful information to the NSA right? As in knowing who associates with individuals they're putting under surveillance, so that they can also be put under surveillance? Cos that's what we're talking about right?
Except... that's your identity. Don't the authorities usually include height and eye colour when describing who they're looking for?
Until it becomes part of the metadata and scanned for key words, so they can filter out who they should put under surveillance.
Chobel
Member
1) Many people don't put their personal picture in their account.
2) Don't need kinect.
3) No argue there.
4) This one is tricky but if they do indeed facial recognition, they can recognize your friends by comparing to the big database (seems impossible).
5) For now yes.
6) I also assumed so until I read this
ThaddeusMcGee
Member
Basically. I feel like I should be shouting to you, this thing's completely off the rails.
Alx
Member
They don't have to register their own face to their account either. And in the end, you don't really need a personal picture to identify someone. The wanted information is the ID, not the face.
dragonelite
Member
Its real simple no mandatory kinect all fears will be gone.
Offer great kinect options if you really believe in the product and people will buy it.
Voice command and hand menu swiping aren't doing it for me not into motion gaming or whatever its called that gimmick has been and should stay death until VR stuff matures and i have a way to do 360 movement on one place.
Offer great kinect options if you really believe in the product and people will buy it.
Voice command and hand menu swiping aren't doing it for me not into motion gaming or whatever its called that gimmick has been and should stay death until VR stuff matures and i have a way to do 360 movement on one place.
Alx
Member
It's possible to spy on you through any device if you're actively trying to do by adding the right access and software. Works for any connected sensor in the world : a phone, a PC/Mac/whatever, a public camera, a credit card terminal, a turnstile in the subway...
What MS says is they won't do it, even if asked. You can believe them or not, but it shouldn't be a surprise that it is possible.
GoofsterStud
Member
It's the first step.
Alx
Member
I suppose those people are denying that there will be software and "backdoors" installed on the console to make it possible (which is more or less the same thing MS says when they say they're not spying nor won't do it).
I also saw some people claim that live spying through a camera would be easily detected through bandwidth consumption, which is probably true.
I also saw some people claim that live spying through a camera would be easily detected through bandwidth consumption, which is probably true.
ShogunDarius
Member
well this just solidified my resolve to not get this console unless there is a kinectless SKU, I don't care if it's 'integral' as long as its there I'm not.
Backfoggen
Banned
You know you can actually check what's going out through your router.
Its not the live spying through a camera that you should be worried about, its everything else that this thing collects (ie look at all the metadata collected by phones, and think about what kind of data they can get from kinect). Its a camera that has to point at you and recognise you in order for the console to function properly, so its not exactly the same as a phone either.
I honestly think you'd be stupid to want this thing in your house. Anyone who's interested in buying this thing should be asking why they can't get one without the camera.
I honestly think you'd be stupid to want this thing in your house. Anyone who's interested in buying this thing should be asking why they can't get one without the camera.
ThaddeusMcGee
Member
The same "backdoors" are available on your Mac, PC, phone, and have been for years. Arpanet was invented by the Department of Defense. You're already a suspect, by your logic.
There's no NSA agent sitting at a desk waiting for "Alx" to play Dance Central. Just refrain from giving law enforcement agencies probable cause to access your home devices and you should be fine.
Common sense, MS doesn't have it.
astroturfing
Member
so they'll allow the spying but unwillingly? okay then.
What if the Xbox One is set to gather, and convert information to a simplistic txt format that can be read by a program at Microsoft, and constantly stream it, or send 0.001kb parts (To form a whole part at Microsoft.) everytime it pings the server? There are so many ways for Microsoft to do this.
The only reasons I can think of why Microsoft won't offer an Xbox One without a Kinect are; by selling the Kinect with the Xbox One, they will make a profit on every unit sold, or make more money than they could by simply selling the Xbox One. Or, they have a deal with the NSA, and can't remove it.
Anything is technically possible if you apply FUD logic to things.
The practicality is that anything that flows from your house to any 'server' , so your XBL/PSN stuff, Skype, facebook, google plus from any of your devices (phones/laptops/psvita/kinect/whatever) should be considered eaves droppable by the NSA if we assume the worst extent of PRISM et al..
You have to go real FUD on things to think that they'll be live video and audio streaming, or even live audio/video analysis done locally just for surveillance purposes that generates metadata to be sent from the kinect.
Obviously if just the mere sight of Kinect is too over bearing for you for any reason, then I absolutely agree that you should never buy an XB1, but at least realise that if you truly are worried about privacy, it would be foolish to not apply identical logic to all these other forms of potential privacy invasion with all your 'tech'..
As I said, anything is technically feasible, but come on, if you think the NSA are forcing manufacturers down this road, as I've said a few times, Kinect which will take such a massively long time to get any sizeable userbase is ridiculously impractical.. A mobile phone that is carried on the person, and vastly more prevalent would be obviously a much better target by the NSA, then your laptop, etc..
I don't know if people are intentionally spreading FUD or not...
Alx
Member
Or they decided it was a defining feature of their product that will help them differentiate from the competition, especially if it becomes a new standard.
And fearing some data leak to the NSA is one thing, but thinking that the NSA is the first motivation for that sensor to be a requirement is just crazy. The NSA hasn't bought Microsoft yet, and there's no way they could have such a strong influence on their strategy for a rather important product for them, on a multi-billion market.
You know, it's kind of scary how all the evidence is pointing out that spying is something Microsoft is aiding the NSA in doing. As a matter of fact, not only are Microsoft in the PRISM program, they were the first company to sign up with the governments surveillance program. The fact that they're already involved with such activities is frightening in it of itself, and speaks volume of what they think of their consumers integrity.
With the revelation of the shady activities they're assisting the NSA with, and the fact that XBOne requires a mandatory Kinect to even function just takes it all to a whole other level. Not only were the Kinect designed to monitor for security threats (Spy on you), but it was also designed to bring in ad-revenue. They want to know who you are, what you do, what you like etc so they can collect information on you. It's disgusting.
So what do Microsoft have to say about all of this? They released a statement last month, and they're basically saying that they won't provide collected customer data voluntarily, but only if they're legally required to. That's a nice way to try to avert the blame. What they fail to mention in that statement is that PRISM falls under that requirement
Microsoft could take the high road on this and show that their costumers integrity is important to them by dropping the mandatory Kinect. Of course, they won't though, since that would defeat the purpose of the vision they had set out with the console, and since they're in line with whatever surveillance schemes the government's pulling on the general public.
What a farce.
With the revelation of the shady activities they're assisting the NSA with, and the fact that XBOne requires a mandatory Kinect to even function just takes it all to a whole other level. Not only were the Kinect designed to monitor for security threats (Spy on you), but it was also designed to bring in ad-revenue. They want to know who you are, what you do, what you like etc so they can collect information on you. It's disgusting.
So what do Microsoft have to say about all of this? They released a statement last month, and they're basically saying that they won't provide collected customer data voluntarily, but only if they're legally required to. That's a nice way to try to avert the blame. What they fail to mention in that statement is that PRISM falls under that requirement
Microsoft could take the high road on this and show that their costumers integrity is important to them by dropping the mandatory Kinect. Of course, they won't though, since that would defeat the purpose of the vision they had set out with the console, and since they're in line with whatever surveillance schemes the government's pulling on the general public.
What a farce.
SpoonyBard
Banned
This confirms that it is possible. But I'm sure NSA only listens you if you know someone who knows someone suspicious.