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Microsoft: You don't need to own studios to make great games
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
SwiftDeath
Member
What? When did cboat say that?
Steverulez
Member
Turn10, originally a studio to help Bizarre with PGR I think.
343i, didn't buy them (though did buy the IP they use).
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
I don't think the standard steambox will be limited to steamos, seems like a bad move by valve and the manufacturer's to make seeing as they are very pro-customization. I think they have made it clear that it will be shipping with steamos though. So whether it runs on linux, that will be up to respawn/EA.
walltowall
Member
It will. Because it has by far the lowest user base of the platforms it will launch on. Way to go out on a limb there with your prediction
FUBAR McDangles
Member
Well they did own Bungie for quite a while but then Bungie wanted to go independent. Microsoft had two options. Let them go multiplatform but continue to see Bungie's games on Microsoft's console(s) in the future, or forcefully keep them, watch the core of the company leave to create some other company, and then spitefully never see a Bungie game on a Microsoft platform ever again.
Microsoft made the better decision. Hopefully that decision never has to come up again with this new crop of studios, but they've been getting some great talent lately as far as I know and I can't help but think that the X1 will have better support going forward than the 360 did in its late years.
It will. Because it has by far the lowest user base of the platforms it will launch on. Way to go out on a limb there with your prediction
It's obvious, but you'd be surprised how many people believe otherwise.
I thought he was joking/being sarcastic or hopeful. Didn't realise he meant that seriously. Pretty massive if true.
walltowall
Member
I was stating my opinion on wether or not Vince was caught flat footed by the "exclusivity".
Go back and listen to the E3 event....."to close, I have one more exclusive title to share with you" .......cue Respawn logo.
Destiny would have been a big exclusive that I would have been jealous of if Microsoft will owned them and would be one definite game that I would consider getting an Xbox One for if ended up truly being a better Borderlands 2 in every way. It's likely to be a huge game this gen.
No way he was being serious. he wrote his thoughts in plain english.
The Mana Legend
Banned
Um, I don't see the controversy with what he said? Am I missing something?
You can hire studios and work with them to make great games, but you don't need to own them. Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft all do this, and even if you erased their first party studios, you'd still have great games from studios they do not own.
You can hire studios and work with them to make great games, but you don't need to own them. Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft all do this, and even if you erased their first party studios, you'd still have great games from studios they do not own.
Steverulez
Member
No, some people just want an excuse to complain. Especially when most of them are ignoring the big expansion MS have done internally, opening studios etc.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Yeah and both frankie and David Ellis debunked it.
I don't think it's massive at all. OR requires a really strong PC to get it to work properly, it wouldn't even work very well on PS4 let alone a weaker system.
Of course there is nothing remotely controversial nor wrong about what he said, people would realize that if it weren't being filtered through console war stupidity.
Why is it a bad thing? I never understood it. What real difference is it in money hatting a game from EA, then, for example, to fund and have a first party studio develop it. In both cases, Microsoft gives them money. Either money to make the game or money to buy it. In reality, it's not so difference. Is it the little badge that says "I made this" what matters?
"Money batting" drives competition in the market. That's a good thing. It strengthens the Xbox Brand and it's library of games. And no, it doesn't make it impossible for gamers everywhere to play the game, they want to play Titan Fall? Buy an Xbox 360, Xbox One, or just play on your PC. If you're not willing to do that, its not Microsoft's fault.
Level-headed posts passed up as per usual.
Do you really believe that it's less expensive to own internal studio's vs. sub-contracting out the work/"moneyhatting"? Apparently MS doesn't believe that to be the case and I'd say they have an army of accountants which tell them the same thing. For the life of me, I don't get why people get so worked up about who owns the studio. A given game property either meets market expectations or it doesn't. The only explanation I've read thus far that makes any sense is the data/development sharing between different internal studios. That makes sense, but apparently MS isn't too worried about it.
I don't see how it's 'bad' for the industry either. Sony do the same thing, (Warframe is a timed PS4 exclusive) so what's the big deal? I would imagine that studios shop their properties around for exclusivity arrangements all the time. If they feel that they can make more money by publishing to multiple platforms, then they probably don't shop around for those sort of arrangements. It's just business guys. Don't take it personally..
Raonak
Banned
It's much better owning studios if you're looking at long term prospects.
You build a connection with them, share tech and shit. First party games are usually the ones to push the console the furtherest.
Plus they have an air of consistency. They can't be moneyhatted out like what happened with insomniac.
You build a connection with them, share tech and shit. First party games are usually the ones to push the console the furtherest.
Plus they have an air of consistency. They can't be moneyhatted out like what happened with insomniac.
Didn't they "money-hat" with Mass Effect? Look how far that got them. They need studios to develop new IPs that offer a unique experience and bring strength to Xbox One's exclusive line up. The also need studios that are capable of continuing a good series if they decided to such as Halo (and that's what they are currently doing). The whole Titanfall exclusivity will be meaningless if down the road the successor ends up being a better game that will land on PS4 and PC.
I would think so seeing as how they made stuff like the Flight Simulator series.
Steverulez
Member
Phil Spencer said the cost worked out pretty much the same when you factored in the royalties to be paid to the developer.
Puhleeze. Console warrior?
What? A dozen posts pointing out that microsoft is anti-consumer? That's it?
And yes I have the balls to call anyone a fanboy. I would call others a lot worse due to my borderline hate for stupidity and none are as stupid as the fanboys from the microsoft side.
So forgive me for not mincing my words around them.
I couldn't care less which console is the better one or which exclusives are better.
What I do care is not having my hobby destroyed because a greedy cancerous company decided to place their grubby paws on it. I DO NOT LIKE MICROSOFT.
I TRULY BELIEVE THEY'RE A CANCER AND EVERYTHING THEY TOUCH STARTS TO ROT.
The moment you and others said that "DRM is okay", your opinion became worthless to me on this subject.
I am a consumer. I have a brain powerful enough to allow me to discern which company will screw me less. You don't? Not my fault.
But keep your insults to yourself because I'm not nor will I ever be your equal.
Why do people keep bringing up the source engine like it means that it'll run on old hardware? It is heavily modified with an entirely new render. Performance of previous Source games has no relevance whatsoever.
Pound_lb003
Member
My god... It's just got to be this pre launch insanity.....
I am in awe of the internet at the moment. It's almost enough for me to take a break. Just chill out and talk like a adult for the sake of everyone on the forum. Your lack of 'tolerance for stupidity' (where stupidity equates to opinions) is actually pretty unacceptable, and to take this entirely OT, grow-up and be sensible.
Okay, then why moneyhat at all then? Apparently, they consider other factors are enough to tip the scales in favor thereof I guess. I'm no expert here obviously, I've just seen kerfuffles-a-plenty on Gaf about this subject and the idea that moneyhatting is evil never really resonated with me that well.
When it comes to sheer delusion , no i will never be equal to you. You are a garden variety, generic console warrior, nothing more and nothing less. You use the "lol anti consumer" argument as a shitty smokescreen. I have dealt with people like you long enough to know how you are.
No one is being "screwed" here, you just can't stand the fact that not everyone agrees with your console choice/worships on the alter of Sony, etc etc. Since you clearly have the mentality of an irate 10 year old you have to resort to petty insults of those who choose to enjoy something you don't like.( aka calling xbox owners "stupid" "Cancer") your ridiculous and overly dramatic posts goes to show you take this a bit too seriously but that is a common trait of console warriors like yourself.
(And i never said that "DRM is okay" not sure where you got that from, unless it's yet another one of your delusions i guess.)
See people like you/Sony superfans talk all this shit about "first party being so important" hating so called "money hatting" and it makes me laugh. During the PS1/2 era it was Sega and Nintendo fans talking about first party, Sony super fans were busy bragging about all the third party exclusives that were on their console of choice that would never hit the competing consoles.( Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry etc)
Anytime another console had an exclusive they felt should be on the Playstation they did not hesitate to take to the forums to whine and spew bullshit about it.
Resident Evil: Code Veronica for example, i still remember the thread title on Capcom BBS. "Why is Code Veronica on the Shit-Cast and not the PS2?" Gotta love that sense of entitlement eh?
Once Sony fucked up and all of those third party exclusives went multiplatform then cultivating the first party became important, go fucking figure. I am just going to be frank here, had Sony made this deal and Titanfall were exclusive to PS3/4 and PC most of the ones whining about "money hats" would be defending that shit to the last, this includes you.
You don't give a shit about money hatting, consumer rights, keeping good games off of competing consoles or any of that bullshit people like you enjoy spewing. You're ass-pained that Sony didn't do it first, it's the classic sense of entitlement and nothing more.
I am a multi console owner as i have been for years, i have a preference toward the Xbox brand because it has series that i enjoy playing (and back when i was on that fanboy shit it was for Sega), but i still buy other consoles for exclusives i am interested in. Even if i did only have one console i don't feel the need to shit on people based on their preference , or spread FUD like some sort of shill. Maybe you should get a grip and realize that you are not special, you are not smarter than anyone else because you choose not to buy a certain console. So please, DO pull your head out of your own ass. Grow up and learn to actually enjoy gaming.
Uno Venova
Banned
I don't know about that, you don't seem to like sony fans very much for their preference.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
You both sound like children, but you definitely just took it to a whole 'nother level. Congrats.
PanicFreak
Member
Totally different situation. Bioware was purchased by EA. if they had remained independent, Mass Effect would have been exclusive.
I H8 Memes
Member
Come on man. A system that is struggling to get any games out at 1080p is not going to be capable of running the Oculus Rift. OR needs 2 separate displays running 960x1080 and preferably do it at 60 fps.
Well damn.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Technically he actually is entirely wrong. If you buy something you don't make it. If I buy boots from a bootmaker did I make them? No, I didn't, the bootmaker did. If I pay him to make a pair did I make them? No, he did. Buy and make are two entirely different things. Maybe English isn't his first language and this is just a mistake.
It is the age-old question, "Is that store-bought or did you make it yourself?" If what he said was "technically" correct this age-old question wouldn't even exist.
Now I suppose there is a case where what he says is correct, and that is if you're the studio actually making the great games. That case wouldn't be useful for the point he is trying to make, though, lol.
SwiftDeath
Member
My general rule as to whether or not I think a 3rd Party exclusive is a good thing boils down to a simple question
Would this game have been made without the platform holders money?
If the answer is no, then this is a boon to gamers everywhere as a game is made that would not have been otherwise thus we the gamers on the whole benefit
However if the answer is yes, then it is in fact a bad thing for gamers, it is in fact adding artificial value to a platform holders exclusive catalog. If the game would be made otherwise then how does its exclusivity to a platform benefit gamers?
1P studios on the other hand generally can make games that would not be made if the studios were 3rd party such as Puppeteer or even the Uncharted series as the general market forces have clearly dictated specific gameplay styles and generalizations to try and appeal to a broader group of gamers. I believe the open market that 3rd party face stifles creativity as their games MUST sell or they face shutting down whereas 1P studios simply need to add something unique to their platform
Obviously from a business perspective 3rd party exclusives are a great approach and can make a ton of money, look at Gears of War for example
Why on earth I or any other gamer would give a crap that 3rd party exclusives are a good business decision is beyond me though
Would this game have been made without the platform holders money?
If the answer is no, then this is a boon to gamers everywhere as a game is made that would not have been otherwise thus we the gamers on the whole benefit
However if the answer is yes, then it is in fact a bad thing for gamers, it is in fact adding artificial value to a platform holders exclusive catalog. If the game would be made otherwise then how does its exclusivity to a platform benefit gamers?
1P studios on the other hand generally can make games that would not be made if the studios were 3rd party such as Puppeteer or even the Uncharted series as the general market forces have clearly dictated specific gameplay styles and generalizations to try and appeal to a broader group of gamers. I believe the open market that 3rd party face stifles creativity as their games MUST sell or they face shutting down whereas 1P studios simply need to add something unique to their platform
Obviously from a business perspective 3rd party exclusives are a great approach and can make a ton of money, look at Gears of War for example
Why on earth I or any other gamer would give a crap that 3rd party exclusives are a good business decision is beyond me though
Because Titanfall's graphics still looks like a current-gen game.
Wow, some people really need to take a break from videagamez.
Black Mantis
Member
No they didn't. They had a good partnership with Bioware, stretching back to the OG Xbox days and that continued to the 360 and Mass Effect. Then EA bought Bioware and there was no way that partnership could continue. Similar to Sony and Insomniac, only real difference being, that Microsoft allowed Bioware to retain all ownership of the IP's they created.
NathanMcMahon
Banned
Why is it a bad thing? I never understood it. What real difference is it in money hatting a game from EA, then, for example, to fund and have a first party studio develop it. In both cases, Microsoft gives them money. Either money to make the game or money to buy it. In reality, it's not so difference. Is it the little badge that says "I made this" what matters?
"Money batting" drives competition in the market. That's a good thing. It strengthens the Xbox Brand and it's library of games. And no, it doesn't make it impossible for gamers everywhere to play the game, they want to play Titan Fall? Buy an Xbox 360, Xbox One, or just play on your PC. If you're not willing to do that, its not Microsoft's fault.
Phenomenal. Too bad your insightfulness is passed up for the generic fanboy shit in here. The lack of perspective on the inherent good of having multiple companies doing different things and keeping each other in check is lost an too many here. Thanks to Microsofts stumbling with this new console, Sony was willing to change their plans for the better. Thanks to Microsoft deciding to go full force into the games industry and buy their way to relevance, Sony has had to re-evaluate their brand. And besides. We can all agree that Nintendo is just plain shit and deserves a public flogging.
I love my WiiU
ThisWreckage
Banned
Owning a first party studio helps out tremendously with tech. Titanfall is not going to push the Xbox One in any memorable way. With Naughty Dog and Santa Monica you know you're going to get a quality product that pushes the console graphically. And those studios also help develop tools for other studios to use. One method is a future proof investment and the other method is a prayer that things will work out in your favor. It's not sustainable in the long run.
You really think "I would call others a lot worse due to my borderline hate for stupidity and none are as stupid as the fanboys from the microsoft side" and "I TRULY BELIEVE THEY'RE A CANCER AND EVERYTHING THEY TOUCH STARTS TO ROT" is less worse than abadguy direct post towards him? Sure both ooze of hate, but still.
Are we supposed to dig out deadly diseases and throw it out here? It adds nothing to the discussion and it defiantly adds nothing to GAF. The last time I called someone a "deadly diseases" was back in junior high.
What would that be?
The Little Big Planet series.
Goodacre0081
Member
smh, even after the 180's, after the departure of Mattrick, it's still business as usual at Microsoft.
all they need to do is get the ball rolling with a few money hats and get a good user base going, after that they probably don't care if Titianfall 2 goes to the PS4. they would have gotten people to commit to the XB1 and the casual users will most likely never switch platforms. to me, it's a facade and I don't trust MS to deliver all generation long.
if MS was serious about fostering their own studios they would have been building them throughout the 360 cycle. now they have a bunch of green studios that are going to probably turn out some mediocre games, get less funding and ultimately get shut down.
all they need to do is get the ball rolling with a few money hats and get a good user base going, after that they probably don't care if Titianfall 2 goes to the PS4. they would have gotten people to commit to the XB1 and the casual users will most likely never switch platforms. to me, it's a facade and I don't trust MS to deliver all generation long.
if MS was serious about fostering their own studios they would have been building them throughout the 360 cycle. now they have a bunch of green studios that are going to probably turn out some mediocre games, get less funding and ultimately get shut down.
I love LittleBigPlanet, but it's creative mode is not comparable to Project Spark.
There's a whole other level of tools and possibilities with Project Spark, and to be frankly it isn't actually a game. It's a tool or a rmieagination of Kodu Game Lab.
I would recommend that you check out some of their videos here to see what I'm talking about: http://www.youtube.com/user/JoinProjectSpark/videos
Again; Love LPB, but it's not the same.
ThisWreckage
Banned
If Sony and Microsoft are both around in two or three generations the amount of first party talent between the too is going to be an enormous gulf. Inconceivably huge.
Miles Quaritch
Member
so cboat is to take like 50%/50%?