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Middle-earth and Tolkien based films post-Peter Jackson

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Edmond Dantès

Dantès the White
The facts:
In terms of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, it depends entirely on Middle-earth enterprises, who own the rights. They have many licencees at the moment; WB are just one of them. Future TV series or re-adaptations would be contingent on what happens in the next few years with the two companies. Whether Middle-earth enterprises feel that WB are doing justice to the licence and of course the length of deal and any clauses permitting early termination from either of the parties to the deal.

The Tolkien Estate have no say on the matter regarding the two aforementioned I.Ps.

All other Tolkien works come under the banner of the Tolkien Estate. Once Christopher steps down or passes, either his sister Priscilla Tolkien or possibly his spouse Baillie Tolkien who is a member of the Estate. More likely though are Christopher's two sons and daughter; Adam, Simon and Rachel.

Simon is Christopher's first son from his first marriage. They had a falling out, but have since made amends. Adam has translated his grandfather's works into French and Rachel has shown interest in her grandfather's work. Adam is the most likely successor.

Future generations including Royd Tolkien, who has been an extra in the LOTR trilogy and recently involved in Air New Zealand's Middle-earth promotion, have shown greater willingness than Christopher as regards Tolkien's works. But, as of now, there's very little chance of them becoming literary executors of the Estate, if ever,

In conclusion, The Silmarillion etc; public domain is the most likely. The Hobbit and Lord of the Rings; depends entirely on what Middle-earth enterprises' future plans are.
On public domain:
Essentially, The Silmarillion will enter the public domain 70 years after Christopher's death. It's considered a work of joint authorship under section 10 (1) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988:

Works of joint authorship

(1) In this Part a “work of joint authorship” means a work produced by the collaboration of two or more authors in which the contribution of each author is not distinct from that of the other author or authors.


Duration of copyright in literary, dramatic, musical or artistic works

(1)The following provisions have effect with respect to the duration of copyright in a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work.

(2)Copyright expires at the end of the period of 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the author dies, subject as follows.


Christopher is responsible for a number of chapters in The Silmarillion, and of course, there isn't really distinction between Christopher's prose or his father's, thus application of the aforementioned provision and precedents in case law, means The Silmarillion and The Children of Hurin are works of joint authorship.

Thus in accordance with sections 10 (1), and 12 (2) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988, The Silmarillion and The Children of Hurin will enter public domain many years after Christopher's death.

The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit in 2043.

This is the factual and legal position going forward.

Nonetheless, what do you envisage? A thirty year break? Adaptations of the various sagas that formed the basis of much of Tolkien's mythos? Appendices material used as a basis for a narrative a la the Shadow of Mordor videogame?
 
When will LOTR/Hobbit become public domain?


Edmond Dantès;128182388 said:
Nonetheless, what do you envisage?

Knowing Hollywood, re-makes of LOTR trilogy but this time with younger cast. :D

As for Middle-earth enterprises, I pray for HBO to extract good TV deal from them for Silmarilion.
 
Edmond Dantès;128182388 said:
The facts:

Nonetheless, what do you envisage? A thirty year break? Adaptations of the various sagas that formed the basis of much of Tolkien's mythos? Appendices material used as a basis for a narrative a la the Shadow of Mordor videogame?

I don't know if I would like having the LotR movies redone any time soon.
The Hobbit on the other hand I wouldn't actually mind seeing redone as I'm not enjoying Peter's moneygrab erm adaptation.

Maybe a mini series or another form of adaptation based on lore from the Silmarillion would be something I would be interested in.
 
Thirty-year break in modern Hollywood? Ha.

LOTR reboot within the next 15 years. Don't know how, but count on it.
 
When will LOTR/Hobbit become public domain?




Knowing Hollywood, re-makes of LOTR trilogy but this time with younger cast. :D

As for Middle-earth enterprises, I pray for HBO to extract good TV deal from them for Silmarilion.
LOTR and Hobbit enter public domain in 2043 in the UK and generally in European regions.

A more complicated situation for the US.
Ugh.

This needs to stop. New stories, please.
I'm of the same opinion. I'd be happy to never see a Tolkien based film again.
 
If history is our guide, it seems entirely possible that any work created after Mickey Mouse (1928) will never go public domain.
In the US maybe; but they will enter the public domain in the UK. Nothing foreseeable will prevent that from occuring.
 
Hollywood will remake LOTR in a few years time, if it's legally possible. The Hobbit I doubt will see any attention any time soon, and the estate I assume will never let anyone touch any of the other works.

It's a shame they're so stubborn on that, I think. If they found the right partners, the depth and intrigue of that universe could captivate a new generation.
 
Edmond Dantès;128184218 said:
LOTR and Hobbit enter public domain in 2043 in the UK and generally in European regions.

Good. So I will be alive when BBC decides to create fuck-awesome miniseries that covers those books. :D

As for Silmarilion... My hope is still alive... But chances for it are low.
 
Would they hypothetically be allowed to write new stories that take place in Middle Earth? Because if they're allowed to, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a sequel trilogy in ten years or so.
 
I was thinking this morning, I think the music is what elevates the Lord of the rings films, to a godly tier. I havent found that yet with the hobbit, they are fine films, well made and entertaining, not as shined as I would have liked, or timeless, but fine. But the music in the lord of the rings rivals anything I have heard in cinema, instantly recognisable, incredibly well crafted and wonderful.

I think the fellowship might be my favourite film of all time.
 
Edmond Dantès;128182388 said:
The facts:

On public domain:


This is the factual and legal position going forward.

Nonetheless, what do you envisage? A thirty year break? Adaptations of the various sagas that formed the basis of much of Tolkien's mythos? Appendices material used as a basis for a narrative a la the Shadow of Mordor videogame?


Royd rage.
 
Edmond Dantès;128182388 said:
The facts:

On public domain:
The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit in 2043.

This is the factual and legal position going forward.

Get started writing sequels now, Edmond. That way come 2043, you can just drop the new trilogy and make fat stacks of cash.
 
No way Warner Bros are waiting 30 years for another Middle Earth movie.

They'll start making their own movies up sans books or based on tiny things that happened in the books, just like they are doing with the new Harry Potter trilogy.
 
Would they hypothetically be allowed to write new stories that take place in Middle Earth? Because if they're allowed to, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a sequel trilogy in ten years or so.
Certainly a viable option, but once again it depends upon the respective I.P owners. Middle-earth enterprises will be keen to protect their cash cow. The Estate on the other hand would be concerned about integrity.

It is what Tolkien wanted though. A continuation of his work through other people.
 
No way Warner Bros are waiting 30 years for another Middle Earth movie.

They'll start making their own movies up sans books or based on tiny things that happened in the books, just like they are doing with the new Harry Potter trilogy.

Yeah this is what I think will happen. After Battle of Five Armies we'll have a few years without a Tolkien film then we'll get a spinoff trilogy announced based on minor events.
 
I can already see WB developing:

- Origin story of Aragorn
- Origin story of 3 Wizards
- Death of Durin in Moria
- Film set in time just before Smaug arrived on Lonely Mountain
- Film set in the time of the original war of the rings [Gil-Galad & Isildur vs armored Sauron]

And many more.
 
I'd like to see something on a much smaller scale that just happens to take place in the lotr world. Such as a tv show/miniseries with a Shire setting. Maybe it takes place between the time of Frodos leaving and coming back.
 
I eagerly await downloading all 5 seasons of the Silmarillion through my bioport in 2090.
 
I can already see WB developing:

- Origin story of Aragorn.
- Origin story of 3 Wizards.
- Death of Durin in Moria
- Film set in the time of the original war of the rings [Gil-Galad & Isildur vs armored Sauron]

And many more.
A film based on Aragorn's life leading up to the events of The Lord of the Rings makes the most sense. An old Viggo Mortensen narrating the events. An idea put forward by B-Dubs in the Hobbit production thread.
 
Ugh.

This needs to stop. New stories, please.

I've seen enough Not-LotR fantasy that i'd be happy enough to get fantasy actually in Middle Earth.

You can basically tell a truckton of stuff in that universe, and simply piggyback off the mythos.
 
Edmond Dantès;128188790 said:
Middle-enterprises is a subsidiary of the Saul Zaentz company. The rights were sold to them by United Artists. It was UA who purchased the rights from Tolkien.

Christopher sold the rights to UA? That seems unlike him.
 
It's my understanding that WB own the theatrical rights to LOTR and The Hobbit going forward. It's not as if the Tolkien estate can simply up sticks and try and set up a new LOTR adaptation at Sony or whatever.

No way Warner Bros are waiting 30 years for another Middle Earth movie.

They'll start making their own movies up sans books or based on tiny things that happened in the books, just like they are doing with the new Harry Potter trilogy.

THIS.

Warners will try and cut MGM out of the picture (providing they haven't bought them by that point) and produce all future 'Middle Earth' films through their New Line label.

Though to be fair WB do at least have several other big fantasy projects in development (Dragonriders of Pern, a new film set in the world of Oz and Dinotopia) so it's not like they are having to rely solely on LOTR and such going forward.
 
It's my understanding that WB own the theatrical rights to LOTR and The Hobbit going forward. It's not as if the Tolkien estate can simply up sticks and try and set up a new LOTR adaptation at Sony or whatever.



THIS.

Warners will try and cut MGM out of the picture (providing they haven't bought them by that point) and produce all future 'Middle Earth' films through their New Line label.

Though to be fair WB do at least have several other big fantasy projects in development (Dragonriders of Pern, a new film set in the world of Oz and Dinotopia) so it's not like they are having to rely solely on LOTR and such going forward.
WB are mere licencees. It's akin to a conveyancing transaction where a lease has been granted by the registered freehold owner (Middle-earth enterprises) to a tenant (WB) for a lease in excess of 7 years, for example. Whether a security of tenure situation arising under the Landlord and Tenant Act 1954, Part II is in effect, or excluded is unknown.

Of course this isn't conveyancing, but the principles are not too dissimilar. One would have to have a look at the agreement between the two companies, but Middle-earth enterprises have the power in this situation.

As for the Estate, they have no say regarding The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit.
 
I'm okay with this, but we need to keep in mind that it's unlikely that any story they could come up with will have the same narrative strength and compelling character arcs of LOTR.
 
So basically, the one thing anybody would actually want, the Silmarillion, isn't even possible for a life-age of the Earth?

Then yeah, when the Hobbit is done I would like for Tolkien's works to rest for awhile. Give us like, The Chronicles of Prydain then.
 
So basically, the one thing anybody would actually want, the Silmarillion, isn't even possible for a life-age of the Earth?

Then yeah, when the Hobbit is done I would like for Tolkien's works to rest for awhile. Give us like, The Chronicles of Prydain then.
Yes indeed.
 
Edmond Dantès;128184218 said:
LOTR and Hobbit enter public domain in 2043 in the UK and generally in European regions

Holy crap, it just dawned on me that 2043 is closer to today than 1980 is to today.
 
New Line: No plans to go back again to Middle-Earth on film
The final installment of "The Hobbit" doesn't just mark the conclusion of Bilbo Baggins' journey on the big screen. It's also the end of a massively successful film franchise that's earned New Line and Warner Bros. nearly $5 billion, going all the way back to the 2001 release of "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring."

"I don't know what to compare it to because I've never been involved in a project that's gone on for so long or been such a huge success," said Toby Emmerich, president and CEO of New Line, the unit of Warner Bros. responsible for releasing "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" films over the past 13 years.

The marketing campaign for "The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies" promises moviegoers "one last" trip to Middle-earth when it debuts in wide release Wednesday. Will it really be the final outing for all those dwarfs, elves, hobbits and orcs? After all, "The Hobbit" was originally envisioned as two, not three films.

"I wish I could say differently," said Emmerich. "There is nothing at New Line or Warner Bros. I think there could be another video game, and Middle-earth will probably live on in licensing and merchandising a while longer, but we do not have any plans, as far as I know, to tackle another Middle-earth movie."

"The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" filmmaker Peter Jackson, who crafted all six of the films in his native New Zealand, was similarly adamant that he was finished adapting J.R.R. Tolkien, though he would "never say never" to a Middle-earth homecoming.

"If we wanted to and I don't know whether I would want to or not it's not a question I need to worry about," Jackson said in an interview in London to promote his final "Hobbit." "Warner Bros. has the rights to 'The Lord of the Rings' and 'The Hobbit,' and they don't have the rights to anything else," said the director, who will next work on an extended cut of "The Battle of the Five Armies."

The fate of Middle-earth continuing in other realms beyond literature could be decided in a courtroom. The Tolkien estate and Warner Bros., which doesn't have permission to adapt Tolkien's later work "The Silmarillion," have been legally sparring since 2012 over exactly what the studio's film rights entail when it comes to merchandising.

"The Tolkien estate is very protective, as they should be, and I don't begrudge them that at all," said Jackson, who has expressed interest in creating a "Lord of the Rings" museum in New Zealand. "They are very protective and I don't think there's a lot of room for Warner Bros. to move, particularly."

Is it possible New Line could take a cue from the producers of the James Bond film series, or from their very own colleagues at Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment, and use Tolkien's fantasy world as a backdrop for new stories? It recently proved both critically and financially successful for the video-game division.

After recasting Tolkien tales in virtual worlds, the interactive arm at Warner Bros. ventured into mostly uncharted territory earlier this year with Monolith Productions' "Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor," a game set between "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings" centered on characters not depicted in the books.

"I think we'd be wary about taking too much creative license with Tolkien and making up stories ourselves that weren't based on what he wrote," said Emmerich. "It doesn't feel to me like what MGM and the Brocollis have so brilliantly done with Bond and Ian Fleming. From where I sit now, it really does feel like this is it."

Emmerich noted it's unlikely the studio would consider spin-off projects, say, a film centered on Evangeline Lilly's elf quarreler Tauriel, who was a new creation for "The Hobbit" films. Other than a possible "Shadow of Mordor" game follow-up, he insisted no return trips to Middle-earth have been booked much to his own personal dismay.

"I've been to New Zealand like 25 or 30 times," said Emmerich. "I was saying to my wife that I really hope we figure out another movie to shoot there with Peter and (special effects studio) Weta because I really can't imagine not having a reason to go there. It's one of my favorite places in the world and not going anymore would make me sad."
Link
 
I could see the stories from the silmarillion adapted to a good high budget anthology series. Who would do it I don't know. Given how Jackson's Hobbit films turned out I'd kinda like to see someone else to a proper crack it at maybe 15-20 years from now.
 
I said it in the other thread before I saw TBOFA that i'd like to see a film that centers around the Angmar War(?) because I think that the Witch-King was such a menacing threat in the LotR trilogy . Then I saw the last Hobbit film and found it curious to say the least how many times they were namedropping Angmar.
 
I could see the stories from the silmarillion adapted to a good high budget anthology series. Who would do it I don't know. Given how Jackson's Hobbit films turned out I'd kinda like to see someone else to a proper crack it at maybe 15-20 years from now.

While Christopher Tolkien is very adamant about never selling them, the man is 90 years old.

Does anyone know the feelings of the rest of the Tolkien family about selling them? Simon Tolkien was almost disowned by Christopher when he worked with New Line on the films, but I have no idea about Adam nor Rachel.
 
While Christopher Tolkien is very adamant about never selling them, the man is 90 years old.

Does anyone know the feelings of the rest of the Tolkien family about selling them? Simon Tolkien was almost disowned by Christopher when he worked with New Line on the films, but I have no idea about Adam nor Rachel.
Neither have expressed much in the way of feelings towards the films. But it doesn't really matter. The instructions in J.R.R's will regarding his work and the powers bestowed upon Christopher means that his works are protected for a very long time to come.
 
money talks and the estate will want that film money eventually. there will be new films, itll probably just be with a different film studio. hell, after Disney buying out Marvel and Star Wars, ill never say never again. so im fully expecting more Tolkien films in the near future.
 
money talks and the estate will want that film money eventually. there will be new films, itll probably just be with a different film studio. hell, after Disney buying out Marvel and Star Wars, ill never say never again. so im fully expecting more Tolkien films in the near future.
Money is no issue to the Estate or Christopher. Neither are want for money and Christopher's intentions are clear in regards to the works that he is responsible for.
 
Given the quality of the last two "Hobbit" movies, i really don't want another Tolkien movie. I expected it to be kinda "meh" due to the source material, but it was just straight up bad.
 
Edmond Dantès;144167584 said:
Money is no issue to the Estate or Christopher. Neither are want for money and Christopher's intentions are clear in regards to the works that he is responsible for.

im aware of that fact, in fact it seems like the estate and Christopher have no desire to see the books get lost in translation going from book to film, but i just dont think theyll hold out. i just hold to the idea that there IS a price the estate and Christopher will allow works to go to Hollywood, so maybe not until someone makes the right offer, but there will be an offer that probably gets them to say "yes". plus you already have six films based on Tolkien's work, and there's a large audience of people that love those six films but will likely never read anymore of Tolkein's works, so that really doesnt do anything when it comes to upholding Tolkien's original vision for his work when those people only know of the films and expect to only return to Tolkien's world through film.

from what i understand there wouldnt be problems if New Line and Warner Bros. just split the profits more fairly, and because of "money", the estate got pissed. so like i said i think it really comes down to the estate wanting the right money and fair contracts ensuring that money.
 
I hope to see a hobbit movie in under ten years that is a pure book adaptation and is less than 2.5 hours long.

Minimizing CGI too
 
Let me know when The Silmirillion or The Children of Hurin gets an adaption.

Until then, I'll be fine just playing Middle-Earth games(Shadow of Mordor was basically enjoyable fan fiction).
 
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