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Mighty No. 9 [New stage revealed]

But the backers assure us in every thread that the graphics will be waaaay better in the end product...

Somehow. SOMEHOW it can be made clear to Inafune that the graphics need some polishing.

that;s not so improbable, or impossible an order to fill.

I like the look, the shape, the feel, the flow, but the graphics need polish. OK. other than that, I'm happy. Keep up the good work, and I expect good things KJ.
 
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Inti Creates have had better games than anyone affiliated with wayforward could hope to make so I don't see how it's that weird of a statement.

MM9 & 10 are still the best retro throwbacks by a country mile.
 
I was super excited for this given the incredibly promising early concept artwork and pedigree of talent behind the game but this most recent trailer looks horrendous. The other stage they promoted (that was based on the concept art) looked good. This new stage however does not. I was hoping after success stories like Shovel Knight then Mighty No. 9 was almost guaranteed to turn out amazing; but I must admit my hype is extremely deflated by this most recent trailer.

Also "We're pretty much finished" is supposed to be a positive but given the poor graphical and aesthetic state and standard of the game it comes across as a negative.

Just kind of feels like ~4 million dollars should have produced something much better than this. At least visually.
 
Yes the sprites are too big for a SNES game I think but the Shovel Knight sprites are a little too high-quality for NES too. I remember reading something about their spriting process and colours and limits and how they didn't completely adhere to the old limitations. But yeah I was really hoping for something like this fan made gif animation

tumblr_mtsm2iZAqw1qzp9weo2_r2_500.gif


Something along those lines would have been superb.

Yeah, I'm extremely disappointed it looks nothing like this. It really doesn't look that great :(
 
Inti Creates have had better games than anyone affiliated with wayforward could hope to make so I don't see how it's that weird of a statement.

MM9 & 10 are still the best retro throwbacks by a country mile.

I liked Mega Man 9, but I like Shovel Knight more than any IC game I've played.

And hell, throw Double Dragon Neon in there too.
 
To be fair, Inti are much more used to 2D work than 3D (the 2D concept art for this game looks fantastic), and from replaying the game and getting a good look at the visuals, I suspect the visuals look the way they do partly due to inexperience, but also due to wanting to keep hardware requirements low - if partly because the Vita and 3DS are both planned to get ports. They clearly want to keep the polycount as low as possible with this game.

There's plenty of room for improvement (it honestly feels like a Gamcube/PS2 game with last-gen shaders), but I'm certainly not gonna say it looks terrible by any means. It's the gameplay that's the standout, it's Mega Man mixed with interesting score attack gameplay, it's decently challenging, but much harder to get a good rank. Can't say I'm not satisfied.

I wonder why inafune didn't ask them to just go 2D rather then give us...this. I was ok with 3D on the understanding that we were going to have nice, colourful characters that obviously stand out from the background - they don't even have to be that detailed. But it's like they're not even trying. :/
 
Yeah, I'm extremely disappointed it looks nothing like this. It really doesn't look that great :(

2d animation will end up being much more expensive than 3d in this case, epically with what was going on the screen no one was talking about. Beck was looking up stairs in the 3rd dimension. In 2d animation, that would have been an entire other series of sprite animations, with models, I turned the model and have his up the steps animation on.

And the two people who have gotten to ' this looks like a 2d game ' are xrd and the new naruto game.

Not saying it couldn't look better, I just never got upset that it didn't look 2d like the concept, or hat weird animation. Because 3d models are just WAY to convenient today's world.

I wonder why inafune didn't ask them to just go 2D rather then give us...this. I was ok with 3D on the understanding that we were going to have nice, colourful characters that obviously stand out from the background - they don't even have to be that detailed. But it's like they're not even trying. :/

Because its not worth it
 
Somehow. SOMEHOW it can be made clear to Inafune that the graphics need some polishing.

that;s not so improbable, or impossible an order to fill.

Inafune said:
We're pretty much finished, and from now on we'll be heading into the porting and promotion stage.

"Improbable" seems overly positive at this point. It's a visual mess, it doesn't feel like there's any heart or soul unlike his other games.
 
Every time something about this game gets posted I feel like I entered bizzaro-GAF. I think it looks perfectly fine.

Perhaps I simply don't have the same amount of nostalgia for huge pixels.

Me saying that I don't like the visuals is an opinion, not a fact and I don't think that it is a fact so we can both have our opinions and "live and let live". I'm not questioning your ability to judge visuals etc. because you think it looks fine. Nothing bizarre in it. I don't think there is anything bizarre about finding the style bland either, like I do. It's also not about pixel nostalgia either, I mean make it all modern with 3d-graphics and all but with an appealing artstyle. Well I mean, an artstyle that is appealing to me, which I would of course hope from my perspective.

Inti Creates have had better games than anyone affiliated with wayforward could hope to make so I don't see how it's that weird of a statement.

MM9 & 10 are still the best retro throwbacks by a country mile.

Inti Creates have had some excellent games but I guess some of this comes down to preference and opinion as I myself found Shovel Knight to be better than some Inti Creates games. And you are right about MM9 & 10.
 
I wonder why inafune didn't ask them to just go 2D rather then give us...this. I was ok with 3D on the understanding that we were going to have nice, colourful characters that obviously stand out from the background - they don't even have to be that detailed. But it's like they're not even trying. :/

Easy answer: there would have been a ton more effort required, not just for Beck's standard form, but for more than eight separate transformations. All in HD. And they can't cheat and just reuse existing boss sprites like they did with ZX Advent, either. Much more expensive and time-consuming to do 2D animations in HD, and 3D animation is much more reusable and adjustable, and 3D in general isn't resolution-dependent like 2D art often is.

No wonder Arc System Works went with 3D for Guilty Gear Xrd Sign.
 
3d models are way more reusable and mailable than 2d animation.

I kinda get what you're saying about the budgets and how it is more beneficial to go with 3d, but they're not exactly on a shoestring budget for the type of game they're making. But it certainly doesn't need to be 2D sprites in order to appease me. I mean look at games like Trine 2. Gorgeous. 3D with 2d lane levels can be really good looking.

No wonder Arc System Works went with 3D for Guilty Gear Xrd Sign.

Still can't get over how gloriously they pulled that off.
 
Platformers have to be easily-read visually so the player can observe and react at high speeds. This looks busy and jumbled, kinda hard to see what's going on. (I have the same complaint of the newer Smash Bros titles on certain stages)

Seeing this makes me appreciate Shovel Knight all the more.
 
3d models are way more reusable and mailable than 2d animation.

Only if you go with a certain game engine/get lazy/plan poorly.

On the other side of the spectrum you have Dragon's Crown and Vanillaware's stuff thats easily ported between PS3 and Vita (and probably PC if they ever felt like it). Ubiart's stuff easily being slung from console to PC to mobile, and so on and so forth.

A lot of this game reeks of "my first Unity effort", and curiously so since IntiCreates other 3d stuff in this vein on PSP with Powered Up and Maverick Hunter had a lot tighter grasp on visuals and colour design. Compounded by the fact the 'normal' Inti put out a very obviously Inti looking game with Gunvolt, and it does become a "ah, a B Team" situation.

Since the whole project has been cynically aimed from the start to be ported to 'everything' thats why its got that dredgy 3d mobile game look to it, but I am wondering just what the 3DS version is going to look like. Maybe a Demake situation like with Mighty Gunvolt.
 
2d animation will end up being much more expensive than 3d in this case, epically with what was going on the screen no one was talking about. Beck was looking up stairs in the 3rd dimension. In 2d animation, that would have been an entire other series of sprite animations, with models, I turned the model and have his up the steps animation on.

And the two people who have gotten to ' this looks like a 2d game ' are xrd and the new naruto game.

Not saying it couldn't look better, I just never got upset that it didn't look 2d like the concept, or hat weird animation. Because 3d models are just WAY to convenient today's world.



Because its not worth it

Thanks for the clarification, I knewill programming GAF would know a lot more than me :)
 
I kinda get what you're saying about the budgets and how it is more beneficial to go with 3d, but they're not exactly on a shoestring budget for the type of game they're making. But it certainly doesn't need to be 2D sprites in order to appease me. I mean look at games like Trine 2. Gorgeous. 3D with 2d lane levels can be really good looking.
Oh, I know, but as I said before, I'm thinking how the graphics are is mainly due to inexperience with working in 3D and the obvious intent to keep the polygon count as low as possible without being too noticeable.

Platformers have to be easily-read visually so the player can observe and react at high speeds. This looks busy and jumbled, kinda hard to see what's going on. (I have the same complaint of the newer Smash Bros titles on certain stages)

Seeing this makes me appreciate Shovel Knight all the more.

This isn't really a problem in actual gameplay.

A lot of this game reeks of "my first Unity effort", and curiously so since IntiCreates other 3d stuff in this vein on PSP with Powered Up and Maverick Hunter had a lot tighter grasp on visuals and colour design. Compounded by the fact the 'normal' Inti put out a very obviously Inti looking game with Gunvolt, and it does become a "ah, a B Team" situation.
Actually, Inti had nothing to do with Powered up and Maverick Hunter X. This is their actual first 3D game.
 
Every time something about this game gets posted I feel like I entered bizzaro-GAF. I think it looks perfectly fine.

Perhaps I simply don't have the same amount of nostalgia for huge pixels.

I am not alarmed by the lack of pixels, but the whole 3D design of the game looks really..really unfinished. Like a Mega Man X9 prototype or something.
 
Funny thing is, the alpha that was made in 2 weeks? looks better than this. I kinda feel scammed and I regret kickstarting it.
 
Me saying that I don't like the visuals is an opinion, not a fact and I don't think that it is a fact so we can both have our opinions and "live and let live". I'm not questioning your ability to judge visuals etc. because you think it looks fine. Nothing bizarre in it. I don't think there is anything bizarre about finding the style bland either, like I do. It's also not about pixel nostalgia either, I mean make it all modern with 3d-graphics and all but with an appealing artstyle. Well I mean, an artstyle that is appealing to me, which I would of course hope from my perspective.



Inti Creates have had some excellent games but I guess some of this comes down to preference and opinion as I myself found Shovel Knight to be better than some Inti Creates games. And you are right about MM9 & 10.

Yeah I don't think most people interested in the game care if it is 2d, 3d or if it has huge pixels, they just don't find the end result aesthetically pleasing, maybe it is because of the colors or the designs or the sum of many things gone wrong.
People saying it would probably be better in 2d are mostly assuming the team would do a better job in 2d. The reactions to the first reveal which was also 3d were not as bad.
 
Actually, Inti had nothing to do with Powered up and Maverick Hunter X. This is their actual first 3D game.

Huh, makes things even worse then. Studio with no 3d experience set to work on crowdfunded budget of first 3d game. Makes the case for "should have been 2d from the start" even more compelling.
 
Thanks for the clarification, I knewill programming GAF would know a lot more than me :)

I'm too much programming gaf yet, i'm getting there. This is more animation gaf.

But yeah for a lot of stuff is just not worth it sometimes.

I kinda get what you're saying about the budgets and how it is more beneficial to go with 3d, but they're not exactly on a shoestring budget for the type of game they're making. But it certainly doesn't need to be 2D sprites in order to appease me. I mean look at games like Trine 2. Gorgeous. 3D with 2d lane levels can be really good looking.

Even so, its obvious they are trying to turn this into a franchise. It seems as though they want as much reusable from MN9-1 as possible, and that's reasonable.
 
Inti Creates have had better games than anyone affiliated with wayforward could hope to make so I don't see how it's that weird of a statement.

MM9 & 10 are still the best retro throwbacks by a country mile.
Mega Man 9 is fantastic, but 10? Come on now. Shovel Knight is miles better than it.
 
You guys complaining about the graphics know it [Mighty No.9] is not an AAA title right?

The visuals are ok for what's probably a $10 ~ $20 downloadable. Asking for more means you're going to whine why if Inafune does another stretch goal.

How much cost the developement of this games:




I would take any of those graphic styles over the ugliness that Mighty No 9 has become.

How can they say to us that 2+ million dollars is not enough to make 8 stages like this:

 
You guys complaining about the graphics know it [Mighty No.9] is not an AAA title right?

The visuals are ok for what's probably a $10 ~ $20 downloadable. Asking for more means you're going to whine why if Inafune does another stretch goal.

That's fine and dandy but the most prominent comparison's are to Azure Striker Gunvolt, Shovel Knight, and various MM titles, none of which are AAA games.
 
Even so, its obvious they are trying to turn this into a franchise. It seems as though they want as much reusable from MN9-1 as possible, and that's reasonable.

It is reasonable. I work at a small game company myself so I understand why they'd go that route. Gotta look to the future all the time in order to sustain a profit for the foreseeable future and all that. No problems with them going the 3D-route, just wished they'd done it in a more artistically impressive way, which comes down to personal taste of course as some people like how it looks.
 
How can they say to us that 2+ million dollars is not enough to make 8 stages like this:

Because they wanna turn this into a franchise, they seem to have inexperience with 3d, it would take a while doing 2d assets, 3d assets are more mailable and reusable than 3d assets. Ect Ect. Video games aren't just a machine you put money things come out machine, people make it not machines. So there are flaws, with inexperience. The games not done, ect.

It is reasonable. I work at a small game company myself so I understand why they'd go that route. Gotta look to the future all the time in order to sustain a profit for the foreseeable future and all that. No problems with them going the 3D-route, just wished they'd done it in a more artistically impressive way, which comes down to personal taste of course as some people like how it looks.

No understand and a no waying 3d can't look way better.
Xrd
the non sonic boom sonic games
The recent assassins creed when it works

You can do 3d very well nowadays. It might just be inexperience.
 
No understand and a no waying 3d can't look way better.
Xrd
the non sonic boom sonic games
The recent assassins creed when it works

You can do 3d very well nowadays. It might just be inexperience.

I do believe it's the inexperience which is the main reason I would have hoped for this to be 2d so they could utilize their honed skillset in that area but we already talked about why they propably didn't go with 2d (time and possible future proofing for their next title).
 
Inti Creates have had better games than anyone affiliated with wayforward could hope to make so I don't see how it's that weird of a statement.

MM9 & 10 are still the best retro throwbacks by a country mile.

Yeah, Shovel Knight was great but it wasn't exactly what I'd hoped. The parts were there, but it came together unevenly.

The level and art design in the media they keep showing of MN9 are what are giving me pause though. Mechanically it looks like MMX with a scoring system though, so I'm still hopeful.

Mega Man 9 is fantastic, but 10? Come on now. Shovel Knight is miles better than it.

SK and MM10 are about even. Neither are memorable beyond the bosses, but both are fun and challenging games. Well, no, SK has better music for the most part. Both had missteps in the music department in my book.
 
I hope it ends up looking better. I gave inafune a chance because he really made a great impact on my childhood, so it's only fair that I can give him something in return. Here's hoping the game shapes up come the final product.
 
That stage looks like they just plopped it down to give Inafune and excuse to get killed. The other 2 stages they've shown off a bit in videos looked far better so I can only guess that this level is still being fine tunes. He says they are almost finished building the game in that video too. Enemy placement, graphical shaders and effects will all likely be tweaked from here on out.


I'm not expecting a miracle here, the game looks like it takes some cues from megaman and megaman X. Could be fun ? I don't know for sure. I DID put in money on the kickstarter though , so I'll get a "free" copy of the game whenever it's actually finished.
 
The comparisons to Gunvolt are a bit misleading because:

- Gunvolt's art is created at a low resolution
- It's relatively short
- It is commonly criticized for a lack of variety, reusing enemies and assets

I think the biggest mistake that was made, was going to Kickstarter without any prototype footage - a failing many Kickstarters have made before. That piece of 2D concept art entirely set the expectation - even though it was clarified the game was going to use 3D visuals - that this was going to be done in the style of an "AAA" HD hand drawn game like Rayman Legends.

I do actually think the current look of the game does have visual design problems, such as a UI that still doesn't look comfortable and distracts from the action. I also think Beck's core animation is jumpy and doesn't read well. The overall style of the game however, is really not that different from other 2.5d titles Inafune has been involved with, such as Maverick Hunter X on the PSP.
 
How can they say to us that 2+ million dollars is not enough to make 8 stages like this:

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Yeah this is basically my central point. If the game looked like that or anywhere near close to that it'd be visually astounding. Kind of feels like this very promising concept art was a target render that even with substantial financial backing and talent they failed to reach.

I don't want to write the game off because of the talent behind it but I'm worried now for the game's potential overall quality. Guess we'll find out soon enough.
 
Even so, its obvious they are trying to turn this into a franchise. It seems as though they want as much reusable from MN9-1 as possible, and that's reasonable.

So MN9 2 is going to look this awful too? That's a nice way to kill a franchise from the start.

I'm really regretting backing this game.
 
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