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Mirror's Edge tanking at retail?
- Thread starter Barrett2
- Start date
The linearity doesn't stop you from playing again. It's actually what drives you to play a second time. The first time you can't go at full speed because you don't know the paths yet. Once you do know, it clicks better. It's just like a 2D Sonic game. At first you don't go that fast because you don't know the stages that well. But once you do it clicks and you're zooming.Guled said:
Not to say the game doesn't have flaws. There are a few design choices that are there because DICE was doing something that hasn't really been done in 3D before. But the game is a refreshing and fun ride that deserves the sales it gets.
Amir0x said:
If this is the meat, the meat was never advertised. If this is the meat, who will this type of gameplay appeal to? A very limited amount of people and nowhere near the amount EA (I guess) thought it would.
Someone brought up races....online races with like 4 people would have been AWESOME and would have added even more to the table. =O
well,i absolutely loved the demo but i am not paying 60 dollars plus tax for a 6 hour experience,no matter how good it is. i am also not one to replay my games unless they have multiplayer so the tiem trials do nothing for me.
maybe a lot fo ppl like me are jus waiting for it to drop to a reasonable price.
maybe a lot fo ppl like me are jus waiting for it to drop to a reasonable price.
Kintaro said:
The gameplay should appeal to people who like good, original content. People not buying something doesn't mean it doesn't appeal to a wide amount of people, it may be something as simple as a failure of advertising or a simple misdirection of demographic. I don't know what specific elements led to Mirror's Edge underperforming, but any lover of great platforming should buy it.
And time trials and speed runs were advertised a lot, I can't help if you (or whomever) did not read up on the product.
No Means Nomad
Banned
It isn't the consumers job to research a product.Amir0x said:
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
I loved the demo and I'm probably going to get it soon. The short length doesn't bother me because I figure i'll be racing through a bunch of times. The problem I had with the Demo is that I wanted to do as well as possible on it, but the checkpoints annoyed me, I wanted to run through the whole level at once, and there was no "start level over and reset time" option. I really really hope the time trials have an immediate start over option.
Sooo if it's easy to replay levels, I have no doubt I'll sink a whole bunch of time into this game.
Edit: Oh, and there's no online racing? In the demo there was a race option, and when i chose it, my ps3 tried to get online. So i figured there'd be online racing.
Sooo if it's easy to replay levels, I have no doubt I'll sink a whole bunch of time into this game.
Edit: Oh, and there's no online racing? In the demo there was a race option, and when i chose it, my ps3 tried to get online. So i figured there'd be online racing.
Kandrick
GAF's Ed McMahon
The demo was fun enough, i want to play the full game. The game might be a bit short, but i still want to play it.
The only downside for me is that it was released along with a ton of other great games, and i dont have unlimited time and money to buy/play them all right now. So i had to leave some, and Mirror's Edge was one of them.
Will probably buy it in the following months maybe at some lower price though.
The only downside for me is that it was released along with a ton of other great games, and i dont have unlimited time and money to buy/play them all right now. So i had to leave some, and Mirror's Edge was one of them.
Will probably buy it in the following months maybe at some lower price though.
Amir0x said:
Indeed. But at what price? The asking price? Looking around the thread, there's a good amount of people who want it, but not at the asking price.
Well, none of EA's advertising thought these modes were the "meat" of the game. So, if these modes are the meat, then either it's just not enough for the price it's asking or gamers really may not care about them that much.
I mean, it's kind of like saying Survival Mode in a fighter is the meat of the game.
No Means Nomad said:
Yeah, it pretty much IS. If you don't do the research, nobody can blame anyone if you end up with a Wii.
Advertising is what it is - glitz. it ALWAYS is. It's not going to bullet point you through the process, there isn't a single game on Earth that has ever done that. Mirror's Edge has multiple trailers, had a pre-order campaign which featured a demo that unlocked a time trials, zillions of articles and stories in magazines that detailed the stuff.
If at this point you are still confused as to what it is it is the consumer's fault, not anyone else's, for being a dumb ignorant fuck.
Kintaro said:
Their loss.
DICE will continue to live on, but if you pass on a gem because of it, later on you may realize you want to revisit the franchise only to have no chance.
Sales-age is what it is, I can give a shit about sales. Mirror's Edge speaks for itself as one of the highest quality games of this year, and this generation period. But this other excuse bullshittery about this not being advertised or this not being long enough (particularly considering just how much length is in the product in attempting to three star all runs)... that's just going to get laughed at.
Sales-age is what it is, I can give a shit about sales. Mirror's Edge speaks for itself as one of the highest quality games of this year, and this generation period. But this other excuse bullshittery about this not being advertised or this not being long enough (particularly considering just how much length is in the product in attempting to three star all runs)... that's just going to get laughed at.
No Means Nomad said:
Depends on the product. The more money something costs, the more likely the average ocnsumer is going to research a product. People don't research before buying a loaf of bread or eggs most often, but they always will for a car
Video games are somewhere inbetween
At the same time people say they want to spend money in something that will last a long time, they also say they don't like to replay games? It's this sort of mindset that's killing arcade-like games and making developers insert all sorts of bullshit modes and cutscenes in games that have no place for them to extend the overall time count instead of keeping things simple, fresh and fun.
I would like to see more 8h games that encourage replays and less 60h games with filler content.
I would like to see more 8h games that encourage replays and less 60h games with filler content.
I guess I enjoy finding new paths instead of zooming through the ones I know. I guess it just a matter of prefrence then. What I like about the new PoP is that it has exploration and it just flows without much effort, you don't have to replay the sections to zoom through everything, it just clicks. Plus its a 15 hour game in a single big area, so it has lots of contentFirestorm said:
Amir0x said:
Man that's the thing, I get one star on some of them and I feel like I've gotten my fill :lol
I have no idea how I can improve my time any more.
I still think that 40-50 could have spurred more sales.
I'm happy I played and beat the game, but I don't know how much longer I will keep it.
No Means Nomad
Banned
You're looking at this from the perspective of a gamer, not a consumer, aka the people Mirror's Edge sold to.Amir0x said:
Expecting the average consumer to go online and read that while a game is short time trials extend the experience is silly. "Research" for the mass market is word of mouth and asking the guy at the counter what game is popular right now. While "research" happens the expectation for consumers to treat it as "research" is a gamer ideal.
It's a fundamental failure of the marketing if people aren't interested in your product; because mass market doesn't research a product they aren't interested in already. Mirror's Edge is vastly overshadowed in terms of word of mouth by other games hitting right now, and what's there has the negative connotation that the game is short (even if it is sweet), which is even displayed in this thread.
I don't think consumers are losing sleep over not "researching"/buying Mirror's Edge this season, but DICE should be. While it is better for the consumer to make an informed purchase they typically get by on word of mouth and brand recognition from past experiences. You can't expect anything from the consumer if you want to make it in the market.
Blast Processing
Member
The whole 'it's only 6 hours long' complaint tells you a lot about what the majority of people want from their games. They want a one-time experience, akin to watching a movie, or more fitting, a season of a TV drama. These people don't care about replay value, because they don't want to replay it. They want to get through it and move on to the next new thing.
I feel like this is a relatively new phenomenon in gaming, and it's coming mostly from the industry and media, and effecting the console side more than anything. Every week (especially during this season) there is a "hot new release" that people want to jump on and be a part of for a week or two, just until the next one comes along. Maybe it's just growing up, but gaming was never like this back in the 8/16/32-bit eras. You got a game and played the shit out of it for months until the next big release. But then, gaming wasn't quite so huge back in the day.
I feel like this is a relatively new phenomenon in gaming, and it's coming mostly from the industry and media, and effecting the console side more than anything. Every week (especially during this season) there is a "hot new release" that people want to jump on and be a part of for a week or two, just until the next one comes along. Maybe it's just growing up, but gaming was never like this back in the 8/16/32-bit eras. You got a game and played the shit out of it for months until the next big release. But then, gaming wasn't quite so huge back in the day.
CartridgeBlower
Member
Of course people still want to replay games. It's the TYPE of game that makes a difference.
People want to replay Tony Hawk. Madden. Wii Fit. Smash Bros. Street Fighter.
Most people don't want to replay a one player, pseudo-FPS (or whatever you want to call Mirror's Edge). No matter how much fun the 'time trial' mode is.
Sure, a lot will. But they are probably the biggest fans. But 'replay' in a game like this, to most people, comes off as 'just play the exact same game a second time.' Like Uncharted's 'replay' ability. I'm guessing most people replayed it for trophies and rewards.
I know I was one of the people who was turned off from this game when I heard it was only 6 hours. Am I shallow for that? No. Could I see myself getting replay out of running through the levels? Maybe. But I'm not going to drop down 60 dollars to find out. I know when I buy a game that lasts 12-20 hours, that if it's a good game, I will probably get that amount of play time from it. The same can't be said for Mirror's Edge. And a lot of people picked up on that.
People want to replay Tony Hawk. Madden. Wii Fit. Smash Bros. Street Fighter.
Most people don't want to replay a one player, pseudo-FPS (or whatever you want to call Mirror's Edge). No matter how much fun the 'time trial' mode is.
Sure, a lot will. But they are probably the biggest fans. But 'replay' in a game like this, to most people, comes off as 'just play the exact same game a second time.' Like Uncharted's 'replay' ability. I'm guessing most people replayed it for trophies and rewards.
I know I was one of the people who was turned off from this game when I heard it was only 6 hours. Am I shallow for that? No. Could I see myself getting replay out of running through the levels? Maybe. But I'm not going to drop down 60 dollars to find out. I know when I buy a game that lasts 12-20 hours, that if it's a good game, I will probably get that amount of play time from it. The same can't be said for Mirror's Edge. And a lot of people picked up on that.
At least for me, this isn't true. Once I get a game, I'll keep playing it long past the point when it's no longer fashionable.Blast Processing said:
The thing is, the longer the game is, it becomes less likely that the game will grow stale over all of the playthroughs. I don't mind short games in the least. Portal and the Half-Life 2 Episodes are some of my favourite games. But at the same time, I don't value all the content within those short games to be equal to a game with much more content (such as HL2 compared to its sequels).
In short: I want to play Mirror's Edge, but I think it's overvalued right now.
beelzebozo said:
That's what really floors me about this game. It had to be a development nightmare from a design standpoint - there's a reason no one had attempted to make a game like this before. DICE did such an amazing job with the controls and mechanics; I'm amazed every time I play how good everything feels when it comes to the platforming. Sure, there's room for improvements when it comes to the pacing and combat, but the free-running element is brilliant.
It would be criminal for Mirror's Edge to not get a sequel.
Mirrors Edge replay value comes from your own skills getting better and the extra momentum that you get as a result. Stringing together moves to get through a level that you struggled at initially is just so satisfying. The game just gets better as you get better at it.CartridgeBlower said:
'Pseudo FPS' is a hilarious mischaracterisation. If you pick up a new FPS as an experienced FPS player, you pretty much know you already have the skills it takes and everything comes down to weapon selection or scripted encounters or whathaveyou. Mirrors Edge plays unlike any other game. You need to learn it, and as you learn it it just gets more satisfying.
I've put in 20 hours and I'm nowhere near done. If you fell for the "six hour game" bullshit, you've cheated yourself out of one of the best gaming experiences this gen.
CartridgeBlower said:
This is just a basic example of not knowing anything about the game (ignorance of the consumer) and it's your fault since the information is everywhere. Time trials isn't 'replaying' the game - it's essentially a 'race track' set up with checkpoints and all for you to traverse in as efficient way as possible. It is a completely unique experience to the story mode, outside of sharing assets. Getting three stars in every level is without exaggeration some of the toughest challenges I've faced this year, easily eating away over five hours of my time ALONE and I haven't even finished the story mode or come close to finishing the time trials.
This is not a supplimentary mode that just exists, it is the whole purpose of the title. The story mode exists to TRAIN YOU for the ass kicking you're going to get when you attempt to three star some tracks. Hell, I didn't even know it was possible to string together some of the shit I did until time trial.
If you only exist to get through the story mode - a timid, unremarkable story that I don't think any big fan of the game gives a shit about - then yes, you'll probably be all "WHAT!? SIX HOURS!?" But that's scratching the surface. It is when you break down to the time trials, which is independent of the story mode and features entirely different routes and platforming challenges, that you understand what they were trying to do.
This shit is ridiculously addicting, and I can personally promise you if you're trying to three star every time trial you will spend a good ten hours on top of that six hours AT MINIMUM.
There is challenges that may feel like simply 'replaying' the game to some consumers. That is called speedruns, and that is actually independent of the time trials. A whole separate challenge. It's basically going through the story levels to beat a certain challenge time.
Yes indeed. It works as a first person platforming racer, and that's where it shines. If this really tanks I'll be more gutted than at almost all bombas before, because this is a fresh, new kind of game, genuinely breaking new ground and opening up first person possibilities. If it sells like shit,
a) we won't get a sequel we desperately need
b) companies won't be motivated to take inspiration from its innovations
GOTY, anyway.
a) we won't get a sequel we desperately need
b) companies won't be motivated to take inspiration from its innovations
GOTY, anyway.
HylianScribe
Member
Amir0x, my issue with the 'speedrun' component is that EA forces you to hit checkpoints in order to complete anything in Time Trial mode, bottlenecking the options for players. I'm really glad companies are paying attention to speedruns, but all that's really needed is a time tracking mechanism, like Mega Man 9 has. Other than that, developers need to leave it be. Sure, forcing the mechanic drives competition, but if you truly want gamers to keep your game going long after it's released, let them explore the game and pick it apart over time and create speedruns of it down the road. Sure you can see how fast you can get through the main game, but I think some gamers, including myself, were expecting an extremely complex, non-linear experience that would be a speedrunner's paradise, but it's surprisingly limited until later on in the game.
TSA said:
You CAN create speedruns with their levels, as you acknowledge.
The time trials is a different beast altogether. It's closer to a race track, with extremely specified challenges laid out and only a set number of ways to complete it in order to get the ULTIMATE three star run. It's a far tighter experience, but don't let that fool you - it is excruciatingly difficult. I absolutely would not want them to change this time trial mode whatsoever, it is literally perfect.
Now as to your other idea of creating a "speedrunner's paradise", like some parkour GTA city where you have a finish line and just are let loose... that may be an idea for a different Mirror's Edge game... but the game already has enough content that it does not need that.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
It was pretty ballsy dropping a new IP into the Fall flood without a major advertising push, especially one like Mirror's Edge, where the game's strengths tend to be hidden under the surface. Gamers' budgets are being stretched really thin this holiday season, and unfortunately some great titles are going to be passed up.
I could sense this one bombing. And it's really too bad. Because in an age where it's either cutesy "I spent five bucks to make this game!" fluff or colorless "I'm compensating a lot for something" diarrhea, Mirror's Edge not only looks different, it does things differently and it does them well. I found the advertising campaign to be actually pretty damn cool. They always advertised the gameplay (parkour first-person platforming), and it was always pretty much as fluid as all that. The only times you truly, truly screwed up and had to stop were when you were in an elevator. Everything else can be as fluid and smooth as you want it to, considering you mind your surroundings.
Unfortunately, the crowd who I think would really love this all bought Sonic Unleashed instead for some ungodly reason.
Unfortunately, the crowd who I think would really love this all bought Sonic Unleashed instead for some ungodly reason.
Jazzy Network
Member
_tetsuo_ said:
Good thing it did. Thanks to everyone buying it at 50, I was able to get mine at 20. Good game, but god if I paid 50 for it, I would've gone bonkers.
miyamotofreak
Banned
The preorder bonus for this was fucking aces too.
CartridgeBlower
Member
So did the Bionic Commando Rearmed one-player mode/game serve just to get you ready for the challenge rooms? Because that's basically what some people here are saying.
Play the one-player mode which is about five to six hours (similar to Bionic Commando). Then spend the bulk of your time replaying the game in the time trial mode (similar to Bionic Commando's challenge rooms, where all the skills you previously learned are put to the test).
So in essence Mirror's Edge structured itself after a 10 dollar PSN game. Except it costs 60 dollars.
And comparing this to a racing game doesn't work. You don't get multiplayer. You don't get online. And you can't even race against other people, ghosts excluded.
I actually like the game. I'm just sick of posters here telling other people it's a good deal and they should like it as much as them, and if they don't, they're not 'getting' the game's original purpose.
Play the one-player mode which is about five to six hours (similar to Bionic Commando). Then spend the bulk of your time replaying the game in the time trial mode (similar to Bionic Commando's challenge rooms, where all the skills you previously learned are put to the test).
So in essence Mirror's Edge structured itself after a 10 dollar PSN game. Except it costs 60 dollars.
And comparing this to a racing game doesn't work. You don't get multiplayer. You don't get online. And you can't even race against other people, ghosts excluded.
I actually like the game. I'm just sick of posters here telling other people it's a good deal and they should like it as much as them, and if they don't, they're not 'getting' the game's original purpose.
CartridgeBlower said:
Comparing the costs of Bionic Commando Rearmed and Mirror's Edge is just fucking stupid. You either care about replayability or you don't. If you don't care, then I can't see why you want a 40 hour game in the first place. If you don't have time to replay Mirror's Edge, you don't have time to play a 40 hour game.
Regardless of what anyone thinks of this game, it'd be a real shame to see it tank. Seeing this game fail at retail would make many publishers rethink the push for new IPs. Reviewers really failed on this game.
Criticizing its short length, lack of online, and meager combat mechanics would be like criticizing Half Life 2 for being too long, lacking time trials, and having shoddy platforming controls.
Mirror's Edge got screwed by being treated like an FPS instead of something new and different: a first-person platformer. I mean, really, N+ is hard as fuck and you die plenty, but it still got good reviews because it was judged as a platformer.
I'd rather see a hundred games like Mirror's Edge that innovate (even with flaws) rather than just one more goddamn sequel (no matter how "polished" it might be).
Criticizing its short length, lack of online, and meager combat mechanics would be like criticizing Half Life 2 for being too long, lacking time trials, and having shoddy platforming controls.
Mirror's Edge got screwed by being treated like an FPS instead of something new and different: a first-person platformer. I mean, really, N+ is hard as fuck and you die plenty, but it still got good reviews because it was judged as a platformer.
I'd rather see a hundred games like Mirror's Edge that innovate (even with flaws) rather than just one more goddamn sequel (no matter how "polished" it might be).
NullPointer
Member
conman said:
Amen.
I seek escapism, fantasy, co-op shenanigans and challenge in my games. I don't *always* want to frag or headshot or impale aliens/Nazis/Mexican rebels/gang members/monsters. I want to do things that I can't or won't do in real life - not just the illegal power trip kind.
In other words, its nice to see a high quality game where the object isn't to kill every fucking thing that moves.
And those time trials are no joke. I've only dented them but I can already see the potential. Playing Mirror's Edge without trying to overcome the challenge of the time trials is like completing Super Mario Bros DS without collecting any of the damn stars. It forces you to analyze your surroundings and do what at first seems impossible. Shaving a minute off you time is more than just avoiding errors, its about circumventing whole parts of the course with advanced moves.
Here's hoping Mirror's Edge gathers some steam once the other heavy hitters subside. It sure as hell doesn't deserve to fall into the bargain bin from what I've seen of it so far.
WickedLaharl
Member
TheKingsCrown said:
7 hours?
you would really have to suck at the game to take that long
You know, I can't help but think the game would have sold more if there was no demo prior to release. I think there's a fair chunk of people out there that would have bought the game on hype alone, and there's a chunk of people who still plan to buy it, but got their fill for the moment, and will get it once they feel ready.
I'm not saying that's the case for all demoed games, but true for the ones with hype. I don't think I would have bought Assassin's Creed last year if I had a chance to play it, quite frankly, and considering all of the marketing buzz AC received, it did tremendously.
I'm not saying that's the case for all demoed games, but true for the ones with hype. I don't think I would have bought Assassin's Creed last year if I had a chance to play it, quite frankly, and considering all of the marketing buzz AC received, it did tremendously.