-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Mixed Martial Arts - the Official Discussion & General Info
- Thread starter Boogie
- Start date
- Status
I have a hard time calling Gomi #1, he's lost some to some pretty questionable opponents and was inactive for a freaking year. But then again I have a real hard time of thinking who I'd put there. The division is all over the place at the moment. Once Penn and Sherk have at it and Dream gets furthur into it's LWGP perhaps a clearer picture will be painted.
Asbel said:
Here's their write up:
"This is our opinion. No thought processes were engaged in the making of these rankings"
It gets to a point where it's clear that they follow no plan whatsoever. You think you've cracked their rankings code, only to realize that they completely contradicted what they did at light heavyweight with what they've done at welterweight (just as an example). It's frustrating, not simply because it seems like they managed to come up with an incorrect opinion, but because their rankings are widely accepted as THE rankings in the MMA universe. They don't even have complete rankings, as they exclude Bantamweight entirely.
A fine example indeed.
Another good one is when Matt Serra defeated Georges St. Pierre, they put him as the #1 Welterweight. No argument there. Why, then, after Chieck Kongo defeats Mirko Cro Cop, or after Forrest Griffin defeats Shogun, are they not ranked above the men they defeated?
If you're making the argument that a win over someone means the winner should be ranked higher than the loser, an argument which I wholly support, then you must be consistent with it. If you are arguing that an entire resume means more than even a head to head matchup between two opponents for rankings, then, again, at least be consistent to that ideal. This mixing and matching completely devalues the rankings.
Though, in your example, Kang's loss to Misaki was under somewhat dubious circumstances. I believe Kang had a broken arm and (and I could be remembering this incorrectly) I think the sentiment was that Misaki had been awarded a "home town decision." But then, are ranking "authorities" meant to be judges as well and dictate if a decision was correct, or should they rank based on actual outcomes, even if the circumstances weren't perfect for both fighters?
I think about these things. I get the feeling that MMAWeekly does not.
Another good one is when Matt Serra defeated Georges St. Pierre, they put him as the #1 Welterweight. No argument there. Why, then, after Chieck Kongo defeats Mirko Cro Cop, or after Forrest Griffin defeats Shogun, are they not ranked above the men they defeated?
If you're making the argument that a win over someone means the winner should be ranked higher than the loser, an argument which I wholly support, then you must be consistent with it. If you are arguing that an entire resume means more than even a head to head matchup between two opponents for rankings, then, again, at least be consistent to that ideal. This mixing and matching completely devalues the rankings.
Though, in your example, Kang's loss to Misaki was under somewhat dubious circumstances. I believe Kang had a broken arm and (and I could be remembering this incorrectly) I think the sentiment was that Misaki had been awarded a "home town decision." But then, are ranking "authorities" meant to be judges as well and dictate if a decision was correct, or should they rank based on actual outcomes, even if the circumstances weren't perfect for both fighters?
I think about these things. I get the feeling that MMAWeekly does not.
Boogie said:
BJ Penn should be #1. Tell me a LW that can beat BJ? I understand that he hasn't fought much in LW but he beat Gomi who everyone ranks #1 and held his own in heavier weight classes. Oh well. When BJ Penn submits Sherk, he better be ranked #1.
Sinatar said:
The top 3 light weights are BJ Penn, Sherk, and Gomi. It pisses me off when I see rankings and they do not respect BJ Penn and Sherk. They will destroy all the LWs out there.
deadatom said:
Frank will win easily. I wouldn't doubt Frank Shamrock making the fight exciting by standing for a round or two before he ends the fight on the ground.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Bishman said:
I hope BJ destroys Sherk so badly he never fights again. He is everything that is wrong with MMA.
Copycat_Wannabe
Member
Fighter A beats fighter BNME said:
Fighter B beats fighter C
Fighter C beats fighter A
How would you rank them?
I am the only person looking forward to the Drew Fickett vs Jake Shields fights more than the SHAMrock fight? Serisously, Sheilds has a hell of alot of hype going into this fight to prove he really is top 10 and if he can beat Fickett then he can prove he belongs at the top. Shamrock beating le or vise vera proves nothing apart from the general public dont care who they watch (which holds well for the next kimbo "fight").
MMAweekly's rankings have gone pretty poor over the last year or so, sherdog's official rankings are much better and they are over more weights with explainations and bring into acount inactivity.
Also, on CBS Robbie Lawler vs Scott Smith!!!!! Bring it on, i predict this could be up with the fight of the year candidates, even worth watchin Kimbo vs can for!
MMAweekly's rankings have gone pretty poor over the last year or so, sherdog's official rankings are much better and they are over more weights with explainations and bring into acount inactivity.
Also, on CBS Robbie Lawler vs Scott Smith!!!!! Bring it on, i predict this could be up with the fight of the year candidates, even worth watchin Kimbo vs can for!
Stoney Mason
Banned
Personally I think people take these rankings a little bit too seriously. They've always been more for discussion sakes and subjective to me rather than a scientific or mathematical listing order in whatever sport they crop up in. .
Stoney Mason said:
I do agree. There's simply no methodology that comes up with a satisfying list. It's just the more biased/undefensible choices in certain rankings that bothers me.
For example, although I respect the statistical basis for MMAranks.com, the lists that their system spits out are frequently laughable. (their WW rankings have GSP at #5 right now, bechind Karo and Koscheck, who he has beaten)
Shield's has shitty takedowns and even shittier stand-up. As much as I'd like to see his one dimensional style exposed, I really could care less to see him fight then have him run his mouth about how great he is. At least Shamrock's bs is funny and he'll put on a show with Le.Jimmy3000 said:
Sherdog's rankings are the best thing aside from their radio shows. Some people don't like how fighters can move up or down fast in their rankings but it keeps the rankings focused on the best fighters now, not a year ago. And with the top fighters in different orgs not getting to fight each other, it's good to see them mix fighters from the US and Japanese orgs in the rankings. After all, top fighters from both sides of the ocean have proven to be competitive against each other time and again.
Master Thespian
Member
Sherk fights for the decision, not the win. He never seems to go for any techniques that will end the fight. That shit is lame. I love grappling as much as I love striking. And if two guys go at it and both come up short, that's cool too. But he tries to wet blanket his opponent for five fucking rounds. "I'll just pin this guy for the next 25 minutes." Dominating? Yes. Boring? GOD YES.
Master Thespian said:
LOL, I know what you mean, I still think he's a great fighter, just how he keeps going non stop for 25 mins, making the last round look like the first. But I completely understand what you mean by boring :lol :lol :lol :lol , but his fights havn't bored me yet, maybe cause I'm a huge fan. I'm really hyped for his fight against Penn, cause I'm interested to see both of their game plans coming into the fight, that fight is gonna be a war.
Copycat_Wannabe
Member
Exactly, you can't just rank someone based on their last fight.NME said:
In this case ranking any of these fighters based on their last fight is unfair.
Lets say you rank fighter C no1 because he won his latest fight against fighter A
Would'nt that be unfair to fighter B who beat fighter C in his previous fight?
And where do you rank fighter A who beat fighter B?
Copycat_Wannabe said:
It's not that unfair. Let's simplify the scenario a little more. Say we only have 2 fights. A beats B then B beats A in a rematch. Would it be more unfair to rank A above B or B above A? I think most people would prefer to rank B above A here. The most recent match carries more weight to keep the rankings up to date. Despite being 1-1, B gets to jump pass A in the rankings.
Now back in your scenario, say instead of C beating A, C beats B in a rematch instead. Would you not rank C over B like so?
1. A
2. C
3. B
So if C beats the higher ranked A instead of B, is it so unfair for C to jump pass A and B in the rankings? Now maybe it's not so great when a fighter I don't like, say Serra, jumps pass Karo and GSP, but at least the jump was due to an objective system and not favoritism.
perryfarrell
Member
Anybody watching WEC? I think it's on right now.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
perryfarrell said:
My DVR shut off right before the main event started.
dskillzhtown
keep your strippers out of my American football
Brian Fellows said:My DVR shut off right before the main event started.
It was a hell of a main event. Short, but action packed.
I just wonder what kind of plan Dana has to promote fighters to UFC from WEC. I would think that is the overall goal for all the fighters there.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
6 days until Gray Maynard drops Frankie Edgar like a bad habit and people start jumping off the Answers bandwagon.
bad for ufc but could be good for mma. depends whether tim fights contenders or chumps outside the ufc. but that probably won't be soon..dem said:
fedor's management will be protecting him
barnett's more interested in pro wrestling than being the #1 fighter
crocop's needs his slow climb back up
couture's too busy making up new reasons not to fight
and no one wants to see another fight with arlovski
monte cox is sylvia's manager and he runs m-1 so it's no surprise to see sylvia leaving the ufc. now that fedor has left m-1, they need to start signing anybody before they become irrelevant. although with dreams, elite xc, wvr, strikeforce coming up in a big way, m-1's plans are going to be shut down. who the hell needs m-1 getting any piece of ppv and attendance money? now that they ain't got fedor, they are worthless and them signing sylvia isn't going to change that.dem said:
Ned Flanders
Banned
Bishman said:
How the hell has he "ran" from any of those guys? Because he didn't sign with the UFC?? The same UFC that lost its two most prominent HW's in the period of less than a year?? By Randy turning down an offer a year ago to fight Fedor in Bodog (before he returned to the UFC)? By Randy being under contractual obligation to the UFC, and thus unable to fight until his legal situation is resolved?
If you want to fabricate some fantasy about why those fights haven't happened, then more power to you, but keep it outside of the discussion of the REALITY that the rest of us are interested in.
Ned Flanders
Banned
smurfx said:
M-1 Global is essentially dissolved and Sylvia is signed with "Adrenaline MMA", Cox's new promotion. On inside MMA he said he would be a "free agent" of sorts, and mentioned fighting promotions in Japan and other events that he could potentially participate in. So he'll be under Cox's management for his promotion, but it will be a non-exclusive deal much like many other fighters in other organizations. This could lead to a lot of potential matchups (Barnett, CroCop, Rizzo, Le Banner etc). He specifically mentioned that he was interested in the possibility of fighting Fedor.
~Devil Trigger~
In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Sinatar said:
:lol NICE
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Bishman said:
The only real advantage I see for Frankie is cardio. He's not gonna out wrestle Gray. He got wobbled a couple of times by Bocek whose stand up is half a notch above pathetic and he was scared to death of Spencer Fisher. If Gray touches him like Bocek did he's done. His BJJ against Spencer fisher was a joke. He couldnt even hold side control for more than 3 seconds before he was in half guard. Go watch the first round of Grays fight with Dennis Siver to see him put on a clinic against a similar fighter.
Gray Maynard by first round KO.
domokunrox
Banned
2 words
Gracie dojo
That is all.
Gracie dojo
That is all.
Edgar schooled Tyson so I don't see Gray being much different. If you think fighting the smart fight against Fisher by mixing in his striking with the takedowns was fighting scared, then I prefer fighting scared over fighting stupid. Fisher would beat most LWs in a standup exchange. And Edgar is no BJJ blackbelt yet but Fisher is not bad on the ground either. Edgar has the potential to be top 5. I just need to see him against a good sub guy first. Although seeing Fisher vs Aurelio might be good enough. If Edgar's bjj is as bad as you say, then Aurelio should have no problems with Fisher on the ground.Brian Fellows said:The only real advantage I see for Frankie is cardio. He's not gonna out wrestle Gray. He got wobbled a couple of times by Bocek whose stand up is half a notch above pathetic and he was scared to death of Spencer Fisher. If Gray touches him like Bocek did he's done. His BJJ against Spencer fisher was a joke. He couldnt even hold side control for more than 3 seconds before he was in half guard. Go watch the first round of Grays fight with Dennis Siver to see him put on a clinic against a similar fighter.
Gray Maynard by first round KO.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
He didnt school Tyson Griffin. That was an extremely close fight. I also dont think Tyson is better on the ground than Gray either.
I didnt expect Frankie stand and bang with Spencer for 3 rounds. That would have been silly but I dont think he even threw a strike standing. Sure it was smart but he was still scared. A win is a win but controlling Spencer on the gorund just isnt very impressive. Its kind of like Kenflo subbing Kit Cope and Sam Stout.
As for Aurelio he'd have to get Frankie down. I'm not sure he could. It would probably end up looking like his fight with Guida.
I didnt expect Frankie stand and bang with Spencer for 3 rounds. That would have been silly but I dont think he even threw a strike standing. Sure it was smart but he was still scared. A win is a win but controlling Spencer on the gorund just isnt very impressive. Its kind of like Kenflo subbing Kit Cope and Sam Stout.
As for Aurelio he'd have to get Frankie down. I'm not sure he could. It would probably end up looking like his fight with Guida.
haha SHAMrock indeed, the guy just got exposed totally. Tottaly outstuck, wouldnt even try taken Cung down as he knew he couldnt out wrestle the guy. A victory for mma fans everywhere who dont belive the hype and can recognise a good fighter.... Tito vs F shamrock zzzzz, F shamrock vs K shamrock what? Cung vs silva... hahahaha i doubt the athletic commision would sanction that fight due to certain injury to cung!
- Status