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Mixed Martial Arts - the Official Discussion & General Info

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Expect to see more guys try to incorporate the sidekick in the coming years. Cung Le impressed me quite a bit. I think we saw that the spinning attacks had to be set up better and used sparingly, even by someone with Le's skill, but the sidekick? Worked like a charm.
 
try dailymotion and youtube in a few hours, this was a pretty high profile event so it should get on there and they dont crack down like the UFC does. Look for Fickett vs Lim instead... Fickett is def top 10 when he puts it on. The dude just seems indifferent most of the time and pulls a nogueira esque sub out of nowhere. I was looking forward to Fickett vs Shields but i guess we will have to wait untill june for it (the winner of that fight is without a doubt top 10)

EDIT: Grammar
 
Master Thespian said:
Expect to see more guys try to incorporate the sidekick in the coming years. Cung Le impressed me quite a bit. I think we saw that the spinning attacks had to be set up better and used sparingly, even by someone with Le's skill, but the sidekick? Worked like a charm.
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Yeah. It'll be great to see anything other than Muay Thai in the stand up portion.
 
any gifs of shamrock funny faces?

Sinatar said:
RyuuMachidaOrig.png
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:bow :bow
 
karasu said:
Yeah. It'll be great to see anything other than Muay Thai in the stand up portion.
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Watch Lyoto Machida, first AFFECTIVE use of Karate in mma apart from GSP in a long long time. He's fighing tito at ufc 84, classic striker vs wrestler, cant wait!


^^^^ message above, dude thats machida i was just talking about not frank xD hence the karate unifrom like ryu.....
 
lolz i have read those, but i dont belive it. if they were true it will all come out with the internet's close info in MMA. We know shamrock has worked fights in the past with pancrease (many fights were) before but i really really doubt they would risk his career and the pro elite organiation's name (which isnt much to begin with as it is v young) to work this fight, i mean, they say its a really "big" fight but on a world mma scale it really isnt, its even insignificant.... now if cung or SHAMrock had fought lawler, Rua, Miller, trigg who are all on contract and legit mma fighters... then there's a legit fight for potentially a top 10 ranking, i think lawler def is up there. I wouldt even mind lalwer coming back to the ufc for a stand up fight with silva, it would atleast be a war.

EDIT: with the word going around that misaki has signed a 2 fight deal with strikeforce i hope to god that mma fans dont see a waste between cung and misaki..... Bring on Lawler vs Misaki, that woukld sell ppv's, fight of the year candidate
 
i personally dont think they are works but if you are facing a world champion kick boxer, no matter how good your stand up is u gotta take that guy to the ground instantly, either the guys cung is fighting are all cans (which arguebly they could be or not) or the fight is being kept standing for the fans, maybe for a bit of cash, who knows these days... its happened in boxing
 
karasu said:
How come every Cung Le fight is supposedly a work? Jesus.
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because every fighter he fights magically forgets that they are mma fighters and has a kick boxing exhibition with cung le.
 
THAT kick? which one, there loads of stong ones that went into that arm! which also happened to be the only weapon frank had standing up to beat cung.
 
smurfx said:
because every fighter he fights magically forgets that they are mma fighters and has a kick boxing exhibition with cung le.
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Since when was MMA an acronym for Jiujitsu? Plenty of them are primarily stand up fighters just like Cung Le. Besides, this wouldn't be the first time that Frank Shamrock has fought a fight that wasn't in his best interest just to make a point.
 
Yeah there were loads of kicks but this one you can see shamrock shaking his arm in pain. I"m gonna have to watch that fight again.
 
Misaki was due to sign with Strikeforce, and Lawler is the Elite XC MW champion. They co-promote events together, but their belts are seperate entities. For instance, last year they had both the Strikeforce (Shamrock defeating Baroni) and Elite XC (Ninja Rua defeating Joey Villasenor) MW belts contested on the same card. So while they enjoy having each other's fighters to pad their respective cards, they're likely not interested in either muddling the rosters or potentially vacating a title belt to a fighter from another organization. Misaki hasn't officially signed to Strikeforce, but assuing he does, that all but completely nullifies the chance at a fight between Lawler and himself.
 
harSon said:
Just got back from the fight, was awesome! I love how hundreds of Asians were suddenly MMA "Fans"... :lol
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Yeah so? You think there would be any white fans if there were no white people in mma?
 
Very entertaining fight that lived up to the hype. Would have been better if we saw a ko or Cung's groundwork but hey. I think Cung could beat some top 10's in a standup exchange but Frank found a hole in Cung's standup by the end of the third, he just couldn't finish.
 
harSon said:
Just got back from the fight, was awesome! I love how hundreds of Asians were suddenly MMA "Fans"... :lol
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A bunch of us were already into it (It's very popular in Japan too), but I imagine a lot of traditional martial artists aren't MMA fans.
 
Very enjoyable fight, I just wish Shamrock would've set his pride aside and put better effort towards taking Le to the ground.
That said, those quick side-kicks were very effective and I'd imagine we'd see a few more individuals attempt to incorporate that into their skill-set.
 
Formless said:
A bunch of us were already into it (It's very popular in Japan too), but I imagine a lot of traditional martial artists aren't MMA fans.
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I'm part Japanese so don't take offense :P But there was a shit load of girls and older folk as well. This happens with every sport (Yao Ming in basketball, Ichiro in baseball, Manny Pacquiao in boxing, etc...).
 
harSon said:
I'm part Japanese so don't take offense :P But there was a shit load of girls and older folk as well. This happens with every sport (Yao Ming in basketball, Ichiro in baseball, Manny Pacquiao in boxing, etc...).
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It's cultural pride, nothing really wrong with it. Happens with all countries (ie: Olympics), and it's nice to see the Vietnamese community come together.
 
Formless said:
It's cultural pride, nothing really wrong with it. Happens with all countries (ie: Olympics), and it's nice to see the Vietnamese community come together.
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They've been doing that for quite a while, I believe they're attempting to have the area I live in renamed to Little Saigon :P

I'd say more then half of the Asians attending were not Vietnamese though...
 
People keep saying "take Cung to the ground", as though it were an afterthought. Cung was an all American wrestler in High School and a state JuCo wrestling champion. Frank is no slouch as far as wrestling is concerned, but Cung is probably the more credentialed wrestler of the two. Frank has had success at subbing and wearing down wrestlers who've taken him down, but in this case Cung would be using his wrestling in a more Liddell-like fashion to sprawl out and recover to his feet if Frank got him off balance.

I think it won't be too long before people start to understand that, again much like Liddell, you can't just float out "Why don't they take him down?" in discussing strategy against Le without giving some deeper consideration. I'm sure it can be done, but you're gonna need a really strong, relentless grappler with a solid game plan (to continue the analogy, as Rampage and Couture were to Chucky) in order to get Cung down and keep him down. Oh, and don't get withered away from strikes in the process. Thats a relatively short list of guys at 185..
 
Ned Flanders said:
I think it won't be too long before people start to understand that, again much like Liddell, you can't just float out "Why don't they take him down?" in discussing strategy against Le without giving some deeper consideration. I'm sure it can be done, but you're gonna need a really strong, relentless grappler with a solid game plan (to continue the analogy, as Rampage and Couture were to Chucky) in order to get Cung down and keep him down. Oh, and don't get withered away from strikes in the process. Thats a relatively short list of guys at 185..
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The problem is that his opponents don't even attempt to take him down. Plenty of people have tried to take Chuck down and his wrestling got him back to his feet, Cung may be the greatest wrestler in the history mankind but we'd never know because EVERYONE stands in front of him and lets him kick them. It's ridiculous.
 
I don't know if I'd believe that the fight was a work, but something seems off about it.

Too much theatrics or something... It seemed like Frank would let up when he was in good position too.
 
Out of interest does anyone play the ufc fantasy game on thier website??? Anyone have a league i can join or want to create one with members from here?

Also: Rumors are that Kimbo's CBS headlining fight is James "worst jaw ever" thompson. I suppose this is a step up for kimbo, thompson has beaten a few names like frye and yoshida but he has also been crushed by many more.... the guy has the worst chin in mma and is simply there for kimbo to knock him out.... i think its bs to be honest, its mma not boxing and wrestling, they should go the route like ufc has done with Lesner and give him legit fighters....

http://mmajunkie.com/news/4040/kimbo-vs-james-thompson-at-may-31-elitexc-cbs.mma
 
Sinatar said:
The problem is that his opponents don't even attempt to take him down. Plenty of people have tried to take Chuck down and his wrestling got him back to his feet, Cung may be the greatest wrestler in the history mankind but we'd never know because EVERYONE stands in front of him and lets him kick them. It's ridiculous.
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I believe in at least one of his MMA fights he was taken down, but he got out.
 
Jimmy3000 said:
renzo's a a gracie, one of the better ones aswell, ofcourse he's going to be good on the ground..........
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I said outwrestled.

The Gracies are not known for stellar wrestling. And neither is Shamrock.
 
renzo didnt out wrestle shamrock, he simply was able to control him on the ground. and shamrock does have a good wrestling base, he's a "submission wrestling" fighter, there's not point in learning submission fighting if you dont know any wrestling to get you in the position to put them into affect.

Frank shamrock beating Dan Henderson, a former US olympic wrestling team member in a submission grappling match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUanusYxDhE
 
Jimmy3000 said:
renzo didnt out wrestle shamrock, he simply was able to control him on the ground. and shamrock does have a good wrestling base, he's a "submission wrestling" fighter, there's not point in learning submission fighting if you dont know any wrestling to get you in the position to put them into affect.

Frank shamrock beating Dan Henderson, a former US olympic wrestling team member in a submission grappling match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUanusYxDhE
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I'm pretty sure Dan's sub game wasn't huge back then, and not many people had leg locks like Frank. He got tied up, and got caught. He wasn't dominated or anything.
 
Jimmy3000 said:
renzo didnt out wrestle shamrock,
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Renzo taking Shamrock down repeatedly = Renzo outwrestling Shamrock.

shamrock does have a good wrestling base,
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No, he doesn't. I don't think he has ANY wrestling credentials (ie. college wrestling), and you almost never see him use anything in the way of wrestling skills. Baroni, Renzo, etc. all were able to take him down at will. Bryan Pardoe (who? Exactly.) was able to take Frank down.

he's a "submission wrestling" fighter, there's not point in learning submission fighting if you dont know any wrestling to get you in the position to put them into affect.
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"Submission wrestling" just means no-gi grappling. It is a nebulous term, and does not necessarily mean that the person is skilled in traditional wrestling.

Frank shamrock beating Dan Henderson, a former US olympic wrestling team member in a submission grappling match: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUanusYxDhE
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Submission grappling != wrestling. In that video, Shamrock pulls guard, and subs a green Hendo. I DIDN'T SAY SHAMROCK DOESN'T HAVE GOOD GROUND WORK.

You don't sound like you know what the hell you're talking about if you're equating submission wrestling with folkstyle/greco-roman/freestyle wrestling.
 
Jimmy3000 said:
Out of interest does anyone play the ufc fantasy game on thier website??? Anyone have a league i can join or want to create one with members from here?

Also: Rumors are that Kimbo's CBS headlining fight is James "worst jaw ever" thompson. I suppose this is a step up for kimbo, thompson has beaten a few names like frye and yoshida but he has also been crushed by many more.... the guy has the worst chin in mma and is simply there for kimbo to knock him out.... i think its bs to be honest, its mma not boxing and wrestling, they should go the route like ufc has done with Lesner and give him legit fighters....

http://mmajunkie.com/news/4040/kimbo-vs-james-thompson-at-may-31-elitexc-cbs.mma
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i'd like to see kimbo vs james thompson. thompson should watch those dvd's if he wants to beat kimbo.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7383389640066630677

here is another video just for fun.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4478640212488475609
 
Jimmy3000 said:
haha dude... no comment
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What do you mean, "no comment"?

Your arguments don't make any sense. You say that taking someone down isn't "outwrestling" someone, you say that Shamrock has a strong wrestling base without any evidence to that effect, and you equate submission wrestling with traditional wrestling.

What am I supposed to conclude from all of that?
 
Formless said:
He doesn't distinguish between the two. I usually don't either, I just refer to it as ground fighting.
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Which is, of course, absurd considering the chasm of difference between the two.
 
well i wasnt going to reply but that guy just hit the nail on the head. All wrestling, ju jitsu, ground judo and sambo etc are all just forms of grappling or now known by the mma community as ground fighting. Therefore they share many of the same themes and some techniques so it can be very hard to see the difference in an mma fight for many situations and some techniques (unless someone is pulling a rubber guard etc, you know the style of that fighter or you are expeienced in a form of that style being used etc) in the modern mma fighters that need to know all forms in a basic way and ateast one well. Lets put an end to this discusion, its like were posting on sherdog or something

Also, yeah ill watch kimbo vs thompson, although on paper its terrible someone is gonna get KO'd in the first round. Also Lawler is fighting on the card so its a must see for any mma fan
 
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