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[dream]

The first Fox show, heads up against Pacquiao, is easily the most important card in UFC history.

Joe Silva...DO NOT FUCK THIS UP.

I didn't even realize that. That's fucking bold.

I disagree that it's the most important card in UFC history though. I don't think there's enough overlap between boxing and MMA for it to matter anymore -- they each have their own audiences.

 

[Heel]

I didn't even realize that. That's fucking bold.

I disagree that it's the most important card in UFC history though. I don't think there's enough overlap between boxing and MMA for it to matter anymore -- they each have their own audiences.

In my opinion it's the most important because first impressions mean everything to a new audience. Like Dana said, possibly millions of people could be watching MMA for the first time. The matchmaking is crucial. Didn't mean for it to come off as a boxing vs. MMA thing.

 

[polyh3dron]

I didn't even realize that. That's fucking bold.

I disagree that it's the most important card in UFC history though. I don't think there's enough overlap between boxing and MMA for it to matter anymore -- they each have their own audiences.

UFC 122: Marquardt vs. Okami was live on Spike and went up against Pacquiao vs. Margarito.

 

[polyh3dron]

The timing seems like it'd be perfect for a Sonnen/Silva rematch if they both win their fights.

 

[dream]

In my opinion it's the most important because first impressions mean everything to a new audience. Like Dana said, possibly millions of people could be watching MMA for the first time. The matchmaking is crucial. Didn't mean for it to come off as a boxing vs. MMA thing.

No, I know what you meant. I just think the UFC has hit such unbelievable critical mass that it doesn't even really matter anymore.

 

[Brian Fellows]

The timing seems like it'd be perfect for a Sonnen/Silva rematch if they both win their fights.

God I hope not. That first fight sucked a bag of dicks after the first round.

 

[Chamber]

The timing seems like it'd be perfect for a Sonnen/Silva rematch if they both win their fights.

That's only 5 weeks after Chael fights Stann.

I'm really clueless as to why kind of main event can be put together in such a short amount of time. Lesnar/Mir 3 is the only one that makes sense.

 

[Heel]

No, I know what you meant. I just think the UFC has hit such unbelievable critical mass that it doesn't even really matter anymore.

Really? I'm sure a Fox show will break UFC rating records. The viewers have to come from somewhere. I'd be surprised if that doesn't translate to better PPV numbers too.

 

[Maklershed]

Would Cain vs JDS be ready to go by then?

 

[BigKaboom2]

UFC 122: Marquardt vs. Okami was live on Spike and went up against Pacquiao vs. Margarito.

Wasn't live - that was a Germany show.

 

[Chamber]

Would Cain vs JDS be ready to go by then?

Sure but you'd have to wonder if the UFC is willing to move the Heavyweight Championship off PPV and put it on FOX. At that point, you're looking at Faber/Bowles being the main event of 139.

Shit, I think the UFC puts on too many shows as is which is why we have main events like Evans/Ortiz. Real curious to see how they handle this.

 

[dream]

Really? I'm sure a Fox show will break UFC rating records. The viewers have to come from somewhere. I'd be surprised if that doesn't translate to better PPV numbers too.

I just think the people that want to watch UFC already watch UFC. I don't buy in to the idea that there's this huge group of people that just haven't been exposed to the product -- combat sports are just too niche.

 

[Unidentified]

Really? I'm sure a Fox show will break UFC rating records. The viewers have to come from somewhere. I'd be surprised if that doesn't translate to better PPV numbers too.

The Rampage vs. Henderson had an average viewership of about 4.7 million with close to a 6 million peak on Spike.

I think it'd be hard to top that unless they manage to put a title fight (LHW title fights and Silva or GSP being the only notably PPV draws). UFC stacking all the September-November cards makes that hard to do. Though is Lesnar if ready to fight by then, it'd be great for the UFC.

 

[Maklershed]

I just think the people that want to watch UFC already watch UFC. I don't buy in to the idea that there's this huge group of people that just haven't been exposed to the product -- combat sports are just too niche.

I think you're underestimating the number of people who only watch broadcast tv and don't have access to not only Spike and PPV but cable in general. I think not only are there are a lof of people susceptible to watching anything on broadcast tv but I'm sure more bars, golf club houses, restaurants, etc would have this on tv and expose a whole new group of potential people to the sport that wouldn't have thought about it before.

 

[dream]

I think you're underestimating the number of people who only watch broadcast tv and don't have access to not only Spike and PPV but cable in general. I think not only are there are a lof of people susceptible to watching anything on broadcast tv but I'm sure more bars, golf club houses, restaurants, etc would have this on tv and expose a whole new group of potential people to the sport that wouldn't have thought about it before.

Probably. How many more homes is Fox in than Spike? Is it in the tens of millions?

 

[Maklershed]

Good question. I'm not sure where to look to find the answer though.

 

[dream]

I think the point I'm really trying to make is I don't think this will result in an MMA renaissance because we're already in one. Anyone who remembers having to trade tapes on CompuServe and hook up DirecTV because Viewer's Choice wouldn't air human cockfighting will attest to just how fucking ridiculous (in a good way) it is that MMA is now treated as an actual sport that is aired for free on TV every week.

 

[Brian Fellows]

Fox is in every house that has a television. Spike is available in 96.1 million American homes.

 

[Maklershed]

I think the point I'm really trying to make is I don't think this will result in an MMA renaissance because we're already in one. Anyone who remembers having to trade tapes on CompuServe and hook up DirecTV because Viewer's Choice wouldn't air human cockfighting will attest to just how fucking ridiculous (in a good way) it is that MMA is now treated as an actual sport that is aired for free on TV every week.

Ha I remember watching the first UFCs in the early/mid 90s through a pirate box that got the ppv channels for free.

(for some reason I also remember watching The River Wild over and over again while it was on ppv too)

 

[WrikaWrek]

Why are people talking as if MMA is less popular all of a sudden?

More and more i hear people who are starting to know about it. It's still rising.

 

[Heel]

I just think the people that want to watch UFC already watch UFC. I don't buy in to the idea that there's this huge group of people that just haven't been exposed to the product -- combat sports are just too niche.

Hundreds of millions of people around the world watched Muhammad Ali fight on free television. That's one hell of a niche. The audience just needs to be captivated again.

Probably. How many more homes is Fox in than Spike? Is it in the tens of millions?

Spike - 96,100,000
Fox - 113,002,500

Keep in mind the ~17m people that have Fox but not Spike are most likely severely limited on what they can watch on TV on any given night.

 

[alr1ght]

The timing seems like it'd be perfect for a Sonnen/Silva rematch if they both win their fights.

I really don't think they want another version of the first fight. Most of the excitement came from "holy shit, the P4P #1 fighter in the world might lose." The potential audience has no clue who Anderson Silva is and will be irritated when Chael tries to lay on him for 5 rounds again.

 

[AstroLad]

Why are people talking as if MMA is less popular all of a sudden?

More and more i hear people who are starting to know about it. It's still rising.

because buy rates are way down for the year, among other data

 

[DKehoe]

I really don't think they want another version of the first fight. Most of the excitement came from "holy shit, the P4P #1 fighter in the world might lose." The potential audience has no clue who Anderson Silva is and will be irritated when Chael tries to lay on him for 5 rounds again.

The UFC really wants to make that rematch. Chael talking = buys. If they didn't want that match again they wouldn't have scheduled an immediate rematch before Chael was failed his drug test.
EDIT: Did you mean specifically they wouldn't want it for TV? I guess I can see that due to Chaels style not being appealing for those new to the sport. He could still talk it up huge on talk shows etc.

 

[dream]

Hundreds of millions of people around the world watched Muhammad Ali fight on free television. That's one hell of a niche. The audience just needs to be captivated again.

That actually raises an interesting question. Is there anyone in MMA capable of becoming a global icon that was relevant across all demographics like Ali was?

 

[DKehoe]

That actually raises an interesting question. Is there anyone in MMA capable of becoming a global icon that was relevant across all demographics like Ali was?

I think MMA is a long way off from being at that point. Theres still a huge amount of people out there who have no idea what MMA even is.

 

[TheNatural]

That actually raises an interesting question. Is there anyone in MMA capable of becoming a global icon that was relevant across all demographics like Ali was?

Hell no, and there's no one in boxing either for decades. Muhammad Ali was one of a kind.

It's not like boxing is any more mainstream than MMA really either. Some of the up and coming prospects in boxing have failed to draw even as much as UFC's C shows lately, like the deal Timothy Bradley got with HBO and his fight that drew nada a few months back, and was one of the bigger reasons of the exodus of HBO's head honcho.

Boxing only has two main draws left, and both these guys aren't getting any younger or more relevant. I love boxing, but it is what it is, MMA is kicking the ever loving shit out of it as a sport right now and it's only going to get worse.

 

[dream]

Does anyone even come close to Ali? I know Zuffa tried with Bones Jones but I'm just not sold on him as a mainstream icon.

 

[TheNatural]

Does anyone even come close to Ali? I know Zuffa tried with Bones Jones but I'm just not sold on him as a mainstream icon.

"Tried"? Jones is only 23 man, he JUST won the title, he's got a long LONGGG way to go in his career. He could be the poster boy of MMA, but its way, way too soon for that.

 

[Heel]

That actually raises an interesting question. Is there anyone in MMA capable of becoming a global icon that was relevant across all demographics like Ali was?

They're going to need to be immensely talented, and have a captivating personali- .............WAIT A MINUTE!

In all seriousness, it'll probably never happen again. Just an example to show the ceiling is much higher. Ali was a perfect storm that transcended sports. He was a cultural icon.

 

[yacobod]

Ufcs popularity peaked with ufc 100, and the biggest draw is brok lesnar, former sports entertainment superstar. I doubt the sport gets any more popular than it is now, fox deal changes nothing.

 

[AstroLad]

i think it does. it's a good sport with lots of potential mainstream appeal. it's babysteps with the ufc for sure though

 

[yacobod]

i think it does. it's a good sport with lots of potential mainstream appeal. it's babysteps with the ufc for sure though

Its potential mainstream appeal is on the same level as pro wrestling and boxing. The biggest draws the ufc ever had were brock lesnar and kimbo slice, not exactly jordan, gretzky, jeter, or other pro athlete media machines. Its always going to be sort of fringe. The best thing that might come out of this is higher pay for fighters, mma will never attract the same quality of athletes that other pro sports do until pay improves a lot.

 

[dream]

The problem is what I keep harping on: the UFC fucking sucks at creating stars.

edit: now that the few true stars they had (Chack, Randy, Tito, etc) are gone or on the back burner, they're left with Brock -- a WWE star whose intestines betray him annually -- and GSP -- who has to apologize after every fight -- as their biggest draws.

 

[TheNatural]

Its potential mainstream appeal is on the same level as pro wrestling and boxing. The biggest draws the ufc ever had were brock lesnar and kimbo slice, not exactly jordan, gretzky, jeter, or other pro athlete media machines. Its always going to be sort of fringe. The best thing that might come out of this is higher pay for fighters, mma will never attract the same quality of athletes that other pro sports do until pay improves a lot.

Dude, its PPV buyrates have been bigger than boxing and wrestling for years now. Even boxing and wrestling combined. I know it's not going to ever be "mainstream" like other sports, but that's because of the way the sport is set up. Team sports play every week, certain fighters that are big draws may only fight twice a year. Nothing is going to change that fact. There's 'seasonal' network sports and there's 'event' sports, and there's always going to be that divide because of the inherent qualities of each sport.

 

[DKehoe]

Another big barrier to entry for MMA has compared to mainstream sports is that not everyone wants to see people fight. Theres not much you can do about that.

 

[polyh3dron]

this is dream and yacobod posting about MMA on GAF:

 

[dream]

I always thought of us being more like

 

[yacobod]

Another big barrier to entry for MMA has compared to mainstream sports is that not everyone wants to see people fight. Theres not much you can do about that.

The other potential benefit might be less ppv overall if they are actually going to put on 4 ppv quality events on broadcast tv, I think the ufc puts on 16 or so ppvs a year and at 55 a pop its not exactly cheap, and I can count on one hand how many ppvs I've missed in the past 5 or 6 yrs. So the sport being cost prohibitive hurts mainstream appeal.

 

[smurfx]

ufc needs to sign Melvin Manhoef and have him fight chris leben for the fox card. sign overeem as well and make him fight some heavyweight striker. make it an exciting card. although with the way things usually go for the ufc most of the fighters will get hurt and all the fights go to decision.

 

[Chamber]

I always thought of us being more like

Who gets stuck being King?

 

[Heel]

Another thing; MMA has not reached critical mass or true mainstream popularity. Do you need to explain to your dad what boxing is? No. How many times have you had to explain the difference between "MMA" and "UFC"? I'd say even a large amount of UFC fans don't know the difference (by UFC's design I suppose). It's going to take a generation for MMA to be fully entrenched in culture.

 

[dream]

Who gets stuck being King?

Me, I like puppies.

Another thing; MMA has not reached critical mass or true mainstream popularity. Do you need to explain to your dad what boxing is? No. How many times have you had to explain the difference between "MMA" and "UFC"? I'd say even a large amount of UFC fans don't know the difference (by UFC's design I suppose). It's going to take a generation for MMA to be fully entrenched in culture.

Is that really an important distinction?

 

[Heel]

Is that really an important distinction?

Does little Timmy go outside and play NFL?

Even if it isn't important, my point is MMA (or UFC) is not mainstream yet. If you have to explain to someone (especially older generations) what the sport is, how is it at critical mass?

 

[smurfx]

Another thing; MMA has not reached critical mass or true mainstream popularity. Do you need to explain to your dad what boxing is? No. How many times have you had to explain the difference between "MMA" and "UFC"? I'd say even a large amount of UFC fans don't know the difference (by UFC's design I suppose). It's going to take a generation for MMA to be fully entrenched in culture.

ufc needs to grab the attention of all the young kids if they want to continue to grow. the economy is getting worse so people will not want to continue spending 50 dollar on shit cards as well. if people aren't watching then there is a chance they will skip future cards and it will snowball into them not watching anymore. being on fox will help them get some of those people back.

 

[yacobod]

Maybe dana and co. finally introduce pride style squash matches to build superstars on fox cards, maybe for old times sake we can see wandy ko a japanese can or maybe mirko against a masked pro wrestler.

Switching gears, how sad is it going to be when nog gets kod in the first rd at ufc rio?

 

[DKehoe]

From the Wrestling Observer site:

A few quick notes from a conversation with Dana White regarding the new deal:

*They've been negotiating this deal hardcore for nine months, and has been well documented, with multiple networks

*UFC will control the production of the shows, but they are going to make changes, including getting rid of the Gladiator open. "I'm looking at this as a fresh start."

*FOX and FX will not only air fights, but also air pre and post-game shows before and after. FOX and FX will be in charge of the production, so they will have their own announcing crew. For the fights themselves, the idea is to keep Joe Rogan & Mike Goldberg together.

*The number of PPVs in 2012 will drop from 15 this year to 13 next year

*As much as possible, they'd like the FOX shows to coincide with the PPV shows, shortly before so they can use the biggest exposure to push the PPVs.

*Ultimate Fighter starts in March on FX with a two hour special. The time slot is not determined so it's not a sure thing it will or won't go head-to-head with Smackdown. Those aspects of the deal are not done.

*The show will be filmed in Las Vegas at the UFC Gym. As far as the live fights go, he said they would most likely be done live from the gym, but that's not for sure.

*As far as the UFC TV channel idea that he had talked about, that's not in the cards for now. "I don't even want to think about that. It's not what we do."

*FX Fight Nights will be the same type of shows as the Spike Fight Nights.

*The four FOX network live specials will be a higher caliber of fight.

*There is 0% chance of Brock Lesnar being on the 11/12 show. Lesnar will not even be cleared to go to the gym to start light conditioning training for three more weeks and the earliest he will fight is the ealry part of 2012.

*He did not rule out using some fighters and pulling matches on some of the shows tentitively booked for the fall to be on the 11/12 show. Said they are working on the main event right now and will announce it ASAP.

*He regrets not booking a soccer stadium for the show next week in Rio de Janeiro. The first day tickets went on sale for the 8/27 show, they sold out 14,000 seats immediately, but there were 350,000 calls made for tickets. "We blew it. We pussed out. We could have done something crazy."

 

[dream]

Does little Timmy go outside and play NFL?

Even if it isn't important, my point is MMA (or UFC) is not mainstream yet. If you have to explain to someone (especially older generations) what the sport is, how is it at critical mass?

I don't know...small sample size and all but everyone from my parents to my friends to their kids know what "ultimate fighting" is.

 

[AstroLad]

ufc is going to stay pro-wrestling niche until they move away from ppvs.

 

[Messi]

The problem is what I keep harping on: the UFC fucking sucks at creating stars.

edit: now that the few true stars they had (Chack, Randy, Tito, etc) are gone or on the back burner, they're left with Brock -- a WWE star whose intestines betray him annually -- and GSP -- who has to apologize after every fight -- as their biggest draws.