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Mixed Martial Arts - the Official Discussion & General Info
- Thread starter Boogie
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Stoney Mason
Banned
dem said:
I'm not versed on UFC history. What does this joke mean?
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Stoney Mason said:
For the most part Frank hand picks scrubs he knows he can beat all the while talking shit about the UFC and how he's the greatest fighter on the planet.
Trax416 said:
Where were these "most people" when Pride was dying a slow death?
dem
Member
Trax416 said:
Lets make some more TUF jokes and pretend Forrest Griffin didnt just choke out Shogun.
90% of top fighters are in the UFC.
You want an example of why MMAweekly rankings are a joke?
SEAN FUCKING SHERK ISNT EVEN ON THEM.
KEN FUCKING FLORIAN IS ON THE LIST
SHERK POUNDED HIM.
WHERE THE FUCK IS BJ PENN?
I don't fucking care if they haven't fought enough at LW. Sherk and Penn are #1 and #2.
dem said:
Lets make a Tuf joke and pretend Anderson Silva didn't make the MW division look like a joke (good for a wash out.
Lets make a joke and act like Okami, an average fighter and best didn't destroy everyone except Rich
Lets make a joke and act like Nog isn't going to win the title.
Lets make a joke and act like Rampage didn't knock Chucks face off, again.
The UFC has good fighters, but they lack talent in tons of divisions. Like LW. They have almost no top LW's considering the amount that is out there.
There MW division is weak as shit
They are losing Randy and AA next year, giving them only half of the top 10 HW"s.
dem said:
1. Sherk isn't on the list because he did steroids. Simple and plain. When you do roids and are found guilty, off the list you go. Especially when you have only beaten two fucking LWs ever. Franca isn't on there either, if you didn't fucking notice. Smart guy,
2. BJ penn isn't on the list because he hasn't beaten a top 10 LW in four years.
However I guess fighters who did steroids should still keep their rank. Give me a fucking break.
I am not saying Pride was the best, even though it was at one point (all ufc had was tim and chuck sadly).
However don't act like the only good fighters are in the UFC. fucking moron.
I mean You say Fedor shouldn't be number 1 anymore because he hasn't fought anyone in a year, yet you want BJ penn to be number 2 LW and he hasn't even fought at that weight in almost half a decade?
dem said:
Bj penn didn't move up to fight those guys. He was to lazy to train, got beat around over seas, came back to the UFC, then lost to GSP and Hughes.
I guess you want Fedor to move up to SHW and fight people.
Fights that happen at a different weight, make no difference on your rankings in a lower one. Just like Ricky Hatton is still the number 1, 140 pound boxer in the world, after getting knocked out at a higher weight class.
Thats the way it works little kid.
Trax416 said:
What does that have to do with the fact that you are WRONG when saying that the UFC offered less money than "other places." Places, as in, plural.
And we still don't know that M-1 is paying him more than the UFC offered. Certainly your link doesn't address money.
So the only fact we have is Finkelstein admitting that the UFC's offer was the most financially lucrative.
dem said:
Gomi was the last LW I was talking about, a fight that happened in 2004. He also got smacked around like a child against Machida.
He losses at every weight class. It's his trademark.
I am not saying Bj isn't talented, but who the fuck has he beat since Gomi? NOBODY. Thats why he isn't ranked.
After he beats Joe daddy he will get his ranking. Then hopefully some other LW's will sign with UFC for him to beat.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
dem said:
Kenny came alot closer to ending that fight than Sherk ever did. But you're right Sherk won so he should be rated higher.
dem
Member
Trax416 said:
Yeah dude.. smacked around like a child
A natural 155lb fighter getting outsized by a 205lb guy... what a fucking surprise. :lol
BJ Penn has a WIN over Matt Hughes.
And he lost the second fight.. but he was clearly winning until he got injured.
He was beating GSP until GSP got desperate and decided to lay.
Don't hate on Penn for being a fucking warrior and stepping up in weight and taking on THE BEST.
dem
Member
So when exactly does Fedor lose his rank?
He hasn't fought anyone good since Crocop in 2005(!!).. and given Crocops showing in the UFC.. I'm wondering how good he really is. Don't give me Mark Hunt. I love the guy.. but he wouldnt last in the UFC.
We're entering 2008 and his next fights look to be Hong Man Choi and Pedro Rizzo.
He the span between fighting actual heavyweights will be over a year!
And he's still number 1?
Why isn't he being BJ Penn'd?
He hasn't fought anyone good since Crocop in 2005(!!).. and given Crocops showing in the UFC.. I'm wondering how good he really is. Don't give me Mark Hunt. I love the guy.. but he wouldnt last in the UFC.
We're entering 2008 and his next fights look to be Hong Man Choi and Pedro Rizzo.
He the span between fighting actual heavyweights will be over a year!
And he's still number 1?
Why isn't he being BJ Penn'd?
:lol It's cool. We're all stuck inside due to the snow storm.Sinatar said:
Trax, it's no conspiracy against you. Apparently, not even you agree with mmaweekly ranking cuz they are claiming Gomi is the best LW.
Mmaweekly has great articles but their rankings suck because of their vote system. They poll from too small a number of voters. I would much rather have one reasonable writer who can adequately defend each position in his rankings. If you want to go off votes, you should poll from thousands.
If you seriously think ufc LW's can't hang with those in you're top ten, you'll be proven wrong every time we see an ex-pride LW go against a ufc one. In fact, we've already seen it many times.
dem said:
Mark hunt is a good fighter. I don't understand why people dislike him. He was number 10 in the world when they fought. Mark Hunt has fought nothing but good fighters.
People put Gonzaga high up in the top 10 for beating Mirko, yet nobody gives Hunt credit. If Hunt faced the people Gonzaga did, he would have a good record as well
If it wasn't for Fedor beating Mark Hunt, then he would be losing rank right now.
Asbel said:
I don't think most of UFC's LW's can hang with the some of the best. UFC doesn't even have that many good LW's anymore. Two of there best got busted for roids. BJ could hang for sure, and could probably beat all of them. However there is more to a division then one fighter.
Also, Gomi is 13-1-1 since losing to Bj penn beating 6 top 10 Lw's.. Thats why he is number 1.
dem said:
Mark Hunt would get beat by some people with ground games. Just like he did in Pride. However nobody would strike with him, he would dominate that. He has also improved his ground game dramatically. If he started fighting again he could be 10 rank HW and even higher if he just gets his ground game in check, because nobody is beating him standing up.
I think he weighed in at 266 or something for his fight with Fedor, normally he is 10 pounds more then HW limit except when he fought Mirko and Wandy.
Asbel said:
I mean can't hang, and I stick with the statement. JZ and Aoki would choke out any UFC lw's aside from BJ.
BJ is really the only LW that stands a chance against the international comp. in the LW division.
Gomi would also do extremely well if he didn't gas. The only person giving any of these guys problems is Penn.
Trax416 said:
No, he was not top 10. Just because MMAweekly said so does not make it true.
Mark Hunt was 5-2 when he fought Fedor. Losses to Yoshida and Barnett, and wins over Dan Bobish (basically won because Bobish had an in-ring heart attack from too many donuts), a split decision win over Wanderlei Silva (not a HW, so shouldn't count by your reasoning), a split decision win over Mirko, and a KO win over an 0-4 185lbers in Nishijima.
How the HELL did that put him in the top ten?
Gee, I don't know. Why do people give Gonzaga credit for dominating and brutally KO-ing Mirko, but don't give the same credit to Hunt for taking him to a decision that could have gone either way? I wonder...
Bullshit again. Hunt would lose to Couture, Werdum and Scherner, and probably Marrero and Hinkle.
Boogie said:
Is this a fucking joke? Mark Hunt beat Mirko soundly. As he did Wanderli, who weighed in at 220 pounds.
I honestly can't believe you said Hunt would lose to Werdum, Scherner Marrero or Hinkle. Hunt is not easy to take down and every single one of those guys has bad takedowns. They also get dominated standing up, something no HW can touch Hunt at. Mark Hunt is also not bad on the ground, he is approaching his Brown Belt in BJJ which is extremely impressive. Ya he has been finished, but against two of the best guys in the entire world when it comes to grappling. Two guys who would have finished everyone you mentioned in the same fashion.
I don't even know how to address that anymore it's so stupid. Did you guys just start watching MMA?
You may as well have said the Nintendo Wii has a great lineup of games while your at it. Seriously.
Calling this place Sherdog would be a compliment.
People use to say the same thing about Anderson Silva.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Trax416 said:
Thats pretty much the standard size for LHW's and pretty small for a HW.
Brian Fellows said:
Being in fighting shape at 220+ and being in walking around weight is two completley different things.
Wanderli has fought over 10 fights at HW. He is both a HW and a LHW. He weighed in at almost 230 pounds when he fought Mirko, outweighing him by I think 5 pounds.
Ned Flanders
Banned
Boogie said:
Mirko was running from Hunt for much of that fight. After the axe kick and flush LHK didn't drop him, you could tell that Mirko wanted no part of Hunt. And Gonzaga was able to KO Mirko because that was the last thing that he was expecting from GG. Submission? Sure. GNP stoppage? Possibly. Split decision after winning the ground war? His most likely method of victory. But I don't think anyone..ANYONE outside of GG's camp saw him KO'ing Mirko for the win.
Mirko knows better now, but he always knew better with Hunt (who has KO'd LeBanner of all people), which is why its unfair to assume that GG finishing Mirko somehow makes him a better fighter/striker than Hunt. He may be a better fighter all around (if his striking isn't K1 level, its certainly damn good), but not on the merits of that argument alone. Come on, Boogie.
Brian Fellows
Pete Carroll Owns Me
Trax416 said:
Randy can piss off too.
dem said:
Hunt isn't in the top 10 now. Nobody said he was. However 12 months ago Hunt was 4-1 in his last 5 fights with wins over Wanderlei and Mirko Cro Cop. If one win of Mirko put Gonzaga in the top 10, then four wins in a row, one being of Mirko in his prime puts you in at at least 10. You also have to understand that tons of top 10 fighters were LOSING at the time, which shook up the rankings.
Hunt is also not as one dimensional as people think. Frank Mir couldn't beat hunt because Mir has horrible takedowns and Hunt has great take down defense. Mir also gasses and Hunt has stamina. Thats what makes Hunt a great striker. If you took Tim Sylvia and made him fight the same people Hunt had to, he would probably come out with a same record. Same goes for Werdum, AA and many other HW's. Not many people are beating Fedor, Barnett and Mirko back then.
There are plenty one dimensional fighters in the top 10 Hw rankings. The difference between Hunt and them is Hunt is the best striker in that devision, period. Nobody is out striking hunt. Not a single person.
Not many HW's have even faced the fighters Hunt has. Nobody gave Hunt time to build up. Nobody fed him cans like Sylvia and Gonzaga got. So give the man some fucking credit.
I would still put my money on Hunt against AA, Sylvia or Mirko. It's just a shame he is not going to be fighting in the UFC. He has major talent.
You have to remember, Gonzaga and Randy were not even in the rankings back then. It was between Aleks, Sergei and Hunt. Many people had Aleks and Hunt in. Hunt lost to Barnett and Sergei lost to Aleks. The only difference is, Sergei got dominated, and hunt didn't. It was arguable, but those were the only options. So hunt was ether top 10, or number 11.
This isn't even debatable, it's just how it was 12 + months ago. It was reality, so welcome to it.
PAYBACKill
Junior Member
MMA rankings are never accurate...when not every org has the the NSAC to drug test fighters, how are you going to judge fighters from all orgs together? Pride guys, I am sorry to say, have looked flat , less aggressive, and less dominant once drug testing hit. wandy looks ENTIRELY different now from his physique when he fought in pride, and very VERY different from when he fought mirko.
they should rank all fighters who fight where they are drug tested in one group, then all non tested fighters in another.
they should rank all fighters who fight where they are drug tested in one group, then all non tested fighters in another.
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