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[ShockingAlberto]

Actually, I hope Nintendo doesnt "copy" PSMove, and instead finds ways to improve their wiimote. The biggest flaw of PSMove is that it is dependent on the camera. The wiimote doesnt need a camera, but it is partly dependent on the sensor bar. So what I´d like to see is a concept where you dont need ANY passive hardware-device anymore. Just a wiimote that is capable of all the stuff. Not sure if that´s technically possible, but it´s what I´d like best.

The wiimote is a camera. To say it doesn't need one would be, like, eliminating the whole thing.

The big difference is placement of that camera.

 

[boiled goose]

literally made me lol.
the "a" got me.

The wiimote is a camera. To say it doesn't need one would be, like, eliminating the whole thing.

The big difference is placement of that camera.

yup. i think there will be downsides to both setups. Move will probably be a better motion tracker (camera can keep track of want precisely and for large movements), but i think wii will be a better pointer. (the camera being on your hand means it can detect small movements really well by simply comparing the two LEDs on the sensor bar.

Hopefully nex gen we will get the best of both worlds. (maybe a movelike want with two small hidden spheres instead of one )

 

[selig]

The wiimote is a camera. To say it doesn't need one would be, like, eliminating the whole thing.

The big difference is placement of that camera.

Well, im not sure if ir remember correctly, but afaik there DO exist 3d-mouses that aren´t dependent on anything. But maybe these are simply to expensive. Wah, I forgot the name of the company...before the Wii-unveiling, there was a lot of speculation about that. Gyro-mouses or something like that.

 

[cakefoo]

The biggest flaw of PSMove is that it is dependent on the camera. The wiimote doesnt need a camera

Move doesn't need a camera to be a M+ clone. It actually has several things in it that make it superior to M+ even without the camera. But adding the camera just solidifies the tracking reliability so that there's no error whatsoever.

So what I´d like to see is a concept where you dont need ANY passive hardware-device anymore.

Sixense. It requires a base unit still, but it doesn't require line of sight, and it's perfect 1:1 orientation and position.

 

[Master Z]

Let me ask you a question

What is the difference between a game Nintendo publishes with an outside studio and a new studio full of new hires?

Nintendo employees don't, like, clone themselves, talent and experience and all.

You make a good point and I would be glad to see Nintendo publishing more games, it would be sick if they created something like EA partners.

Say what you mean man.

I suppose I wasn't clear enough but what I meant is games with mature themes like Heavy Rain or Alan Wake. It's not about just violence.

 

[Metal B]

The two best games to EVER come from the Sony camp are Ico and SOTC, and those games you can play with the entire family and needn't feel embarassed(aside from playing a game at all) by the content or worried about gore/squeamishness.

Not to downplay the quality of this two game, but they were not game to play with the entire family or is there a second player mode i don't know about? Also both games create a atmosphere of alone plus one thing, that cant speak with you (magical girl, horse). Playing it with many people would destroy this atmosphere. On the other hand there is Mario Galaxy with a easy second player mode (or girlfriend/wife/children-Mode), where both player can have a lot of fun together in a funny and challenging world.

I suppose I wasn't clear enough but what I meant is games with mature themes like Heavy Rain or Alan Wake. It's not about just violence.

This would be against the company philosophie "Games for everybody". That's why Nintendo support other developer to design this type of games for them, like Other M, Eternal Darkness, etc. I hope Retro is working on something like this =)

 

[patsu]

yup. i think there will be downsides to both setups. Move will probably be a better motion tracker (camera can keep track of want precisely and for large movements), but i think wii will be a better pointer. (the camera being on your hand means it can detect small movements really well by simply comparing the two LEDs on the sensor bar.

We will need objective measurements to determine. Wii's IR camera has rather low resolution (128x96 @ 100Hz interpolated 8x to 1024X768).

The internal sensors in Move seem to be quick and precise to detect orientation (e.g., gyro is 2500 degrees/second compared to SIXAXIS's 300 degrees/second). PSEye also has a higher resolution and framerate (320x240 @ 120Hz)

I'm sure someone will try to do a AB comparison after launch.

 

[boiled goose]

Well, im not sure if ir remember correctly, but afaik there DO exist 3d-mouses that aren´t dependent on anything. But maybe these are simply to expensive. Wah, I forgot the name of the company...before the Wii-unveiling, there was a lot of speculation about that. Gyro-mouses or something like that.

well, wii motion plus and move both use gyroscopes which can do tracking for while without any external device. The problem is recalibration.

 

[Gravijah]

Not to downplay the quality of this two game, but they were not game to play with the entire family or is there a second player mode i don't know about? Also both games create a atmosphere of alone plus one thing, that cant speak with you (magical girl, horse). Playing it with many people would destroy this atmosphere. On the other hand there is Mario Galaxy with a easy second player mode (or girlfriend/wife/children-Mode), where both player can have a lot of fun together in a funny and challenging world.

SOTC was definitely a game that worked great with another person. Figuring the fights out with someone else was awesome.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

You make a good point and I would be glad to see Nintendo publishing more games, it would be sick if they created something like EA partners.

Well, first thing's first, I want to re-quote what you said earlier

Indeed it was...but unless they start announcing shit at E3 it seems Nintendo is just content developing sequels to their ancient IP's with new IP's pretty much being "non-games" or "lifestyle games". Nintendo has money, lots of it and I wish they would start up a couple of new studios with the purpose of giving some of their talent the opportunity to experiment and make games outside of the safe, family friendly bubble...

Next, I'll post a list of Nintendo published games in the last...let's say two years. 2006 seems overly far back.

* 2008
o Endless Ocean
o Super Smash Bros. Brawl
o Mario Kart Wii
o Wii Fit
o Wario Land: The Shake Dimension
o Wii Music
o Animal Crossing: City Folk
o Disaster: Day of Crisis (Japan, Europe and Australia only)
o Mario Super Sluggers (Japan and North America only)'
o Fatal Frame IV (Japan only)
o Captain Rainbow (Japan only)
o Common sense of people power TV (Japan only)
o Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution (Australia and Europe only)

* 2009
o New Play Control! Mario Power Tennis
o New Play Control! Pikmin
o New Play Control! Donkey Kong Jungle Beat
o Punch-Out!!
o Wii Sports Resort
o Metroid Prime: Trilogy
o Wii Fit Plus
o New Super Mario Bros. Wii
o New Play Control! Pikmin 2 (Japan, Europe and Australia only)
o Another Code: R – A Journey into Lost Memories (Japan and Europe only)
o Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games (Published by Nintendo in Japan only)
o Excitebots: Trick Racing (North America only)
o New Play Control! Metroid Prime (Japan Only)
o New Play Control! Metroid Prime 2: Echoes (Japan Only)
o New Play Control! Chibi Robo (Japan only)
o Tact of Magic (Japan only)
o NHK Kōhaku Quiz Gassen (Japan only)
o Harvest Moon: Tree of Tranquility (Australia only)

* 2010
o Endless Ocean 2: Adventures of the Deep
o Sin and Punishment: Star Successor
o Super Mario Galaxy 2
o Samurai Warriors 3 (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
o Zangeki no REGINLEIV (Japan only)
o And-Kensaku (Japan only)

* Announced for 2010
o PokéPark Wii: Pikachu's Adventure
o Metroid: Other M
o New Play Control! Pikmin 2
o FlingSmash
o Xenoblade
o The Last Story
o Wii Party

Here's where I am in agreement with you: there are a lot of low cards in that hand.

But here's where I disagree: they are publishing other stuff. They're putting that money to moderately good use. It's not Sony or Microsoft level, I agree. But to act like it's just a collection of Mario saturday morning cartoon lookalikes is wrong.

 

[Metal B]

But here's where I disagree: they are publishing other stuff. They're putting that money to moderately good use. It's not Sony or Microsoft level, I agree. But to act like it's just a collection of Mario saturday morning cartoon lookalikes is wrong.

Lets not forgot, even while Nintendo make a lot of money. They dont have other supporting legs like Sony and Microsoft, which help them to support the gaming part. Only thanks to this supports Sony and Microsoft find there way in this market. So both can create titles like Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Braid or Heavy Rain, just to push there console-branch in a positive way.

 

[sonikokaruto]

Sony are no threath. The treath is natal. Fuck the imitator at Sorny.

 

[patsu]

If you think carefully, they are both threads and opportunities for Nintendo.

Nintendo will only be threatened (for real) if it does not react.

 

[Scootydowopp]

Not to downplay the quality of this two game, but they were not game to play with the entire family or is there a second player mode i don't know about? Also both games create a atmosphere of alone plus one thing, that cant speak with you (magical girl, horse). Playing it with many people would destroy this atmosphere. On the other hand there is Mario Galaxy with a easy second player mode (or girlfriend/wife/children-Mode), where both player can have a lot of fun together in a funny and challenging world.

Um, dunno about you but i've always been able to enjoy videogames vicariously.
One of my fav ps1 memories was watching my cousin play through MGS over the course of a weekend.
Thats what i mean about playing in front of family.

 

[IrishNinja]

Dual Analogue controls have been holding back the industry for 2 generations now. It is time to let them die - or kill them if they wont die; or starved them into submission, then kick them while they are down.

And they "standard" controllers are just getting worse - lets add more buttons!! yippee.

I'm very happy to see some new types of gaming interfaces for 3D games and hopefully we will see gaming get a shot in the arm it sooo badly needs.

i really dont get this; theyve been working for like 3 gens now, and we havent really added any buttons (particularly with sony) past...uh, the home button, maybe? not exactly used for gameplay much.
if you prefer mouse & keyboard, that's fine, but even being firmly in the "map attack moves to buttons" camp, i too am down to see new tech like what sony & MS are looking to show here...but i really fail to see how dual analogs have "held us back". a lot of us have been quite happy with the games devs have built around them.

 

[Amir0x]

It's just words to rile people up. We see what happens when you remove even one analog, you get a host of games on Wii which are substantially the worse off for it.

You need both to get to any sort of reasonable standard for ALL types of games. Wiimote/motion technology is simply not preferable by itself to dual analog for a metric shitfuckton of games.

 

[j^aws]

It's not the first time Nintendo's innovations get copied... rumble pack? Analogue stick? Shoulder buttons?

Not sure if this was a rhetorical question, but if you look back, you'll see these so called 'innovations' in Arcades: Force feedback, analogue sticks, and input devices for rotation etc., before the SNES was released...

 

[charlequin]

I can only hope those on the other side, saying Sony copied Nintendo, will just kind of shrug and go "So?"

I can only fervently pray to my multi-denominational gods that Nintendo will copy more things from Sony and Microsoft in a few key areas next generation. :lol

Which was copied from the SNES controller. Not the best example.

I do think the handles are a pretty big innovation, actually. Up through the 16-bit generation, everyone was still doing flat "pads"; Sony really are the first people to put out a console with a rounded, handled controller (even an uncomfortable one like the original PS1 controller) and also to provide multiple index-finger shoulder buttons for a single hand.

Here's where I am in agreement with you: there are a lot of low cards in that hand.

If I had to complain about Nintendo's current first-party output, I'd say they have a bit of a hot-or-cold issue -- lots of big-mclarge-huge titles that sell 10+ millions, lots of extremely random little things, not so much in the way of consistently creating, developing, and supporting mid-range IPs (and especially this generation, there's a lot of cool, potentially successful older midrange IPs they've completely ignored.) This is something Sony definitely seems to be better at than either of their competitors.

 

[boiled goose]

If I had to complain about Nintendo's current first-party output, I'd say they have a bit of a hot-or-cold issue -- lots of big-mclarge-huge titles that sell 10+ millions, lots of extremely random little things, not so much in the way of consistently creating, developing, and supporting mid-range IPs (and especially this generation, there's a lot of cool, potentially successful older midrange IPs they've completely ignored.) This is something Sony definitely seems to be better at than either of their competitors.

I agree. Problem is not only developing them, but rather pushing them. Sony has been great about making new "core" IPs the feature titles for the system. Nintendo has published some midrange games, but they dont get pushed at all.

 

[sfried]

I agree. Problem is not only developing them, but rather pushing them. Sony has been great about making new "core" IPs the feature titles for the system. Nintendo has published some midrange games, but NOA refuses to push some of it here.

Seriously, if I have one quib with Reggie, it's actually bringing out the nice games that EU happens to get. I mean, where's the Sin & Punishment 2 hype, for instance? And what happened to Trace Memory for Wii?

 

[Raist]

Raist on suicide watch.

I never listen to Amirox. He keeps jumping places. I mean, first Demon's Souls was GOTF, then it was GoWIII, and then SMG2.
Keep some consistency, damnit!

 

[Amir0x]

Whoa whoa I never thought God of War III was game of the forever. I thought it was the GOTY up until that point in the year and put other "epic" game of the year to shame. Super Mario Galaxy 2 was not out yet. Now it is out. It is way better than any other game that came out.

How that is not consistency I don't know!

 

[Raist]

Whoa whoa I never thought God of War III was game of the forever. I thought it was the GOTY up until that point in the year and put other "epic" game of the year to shame. Super Mario Galaxy 2 was not out yet. Now it is out. It is way better than any other game that came out.

How that is not consistency I don't know!

Quit lying, I was watching you. You almost passed out because the wait for GoWIII was so hard. But you betrayed us, turned your back to Kratos, and embraced Mario again.

Spoiler

Note: these posts were tongue in cheek :I

 

[Amir0x]

yes I was heavily anticipating the game. But I did not think it was GOTF. It wasn't even in my top twenty games of all time. Joking or not, I will not have my viewpoints contorted! ;O)

 

[Thunder Monkey]

What's going to be funny is when Wii 2 takes the ideas of Move and improves upon them and the same people bitching will get very indignant that Nintendo doesn't have any original ideas.

I can only hope those on the other side, saying Sony copied Nintendo, will just kind of shrug and go "So?"

Dude given some of the improvements I see on paper in Move I hope Nintendo copies some of those ideas.

I like Nintendo's version of the camera and light source bit, but there is some inherent inaccuracies in their base motion tech... mainly because it has to be calibrated. You can create a coherent game as long as the IR sensor is used pretty consistently. If it isn't being used calibration will be needed a lot more often.

Still, for the first motion generation I can safely say I like where it's going.

 

[Raist]

Still, for the first motion generation I can safely say I like where it's going.

Well it's arguably the second generation already. Move is somewhat based on eyetoy, so is Natal, and then there's WM+.

It's funny how successful it now is, and how quickly it's evolving, since it's been around for decades but no one cared, mostly (both consumers, and companies for barely pushing it).

 

[Father_Brain]

Thanks for the pointer explanations, everyone!

 

[MadOdorMachine]

What are the odds of Nintendo using two cameras and LEDs in their next system? What if they put a camera in the censor bar as well as LEDs in the controller? I'm sure most people have seen what Johnny Lee Chung did when he reversed the placement of the two, so perhaps Nintendo will do it. In any case, I expect the next controller to fix a lot of the problems inherent with the 1st gen Wii remotes.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Well it's arguably the second generation already. Move is somewhat based on eyetoy, so is Natal, and then there's WM+.

It's funny how successful it now is, and how quickly it's evolving, since it's been around for decades but no one cared, mostly (both consumers, and companies for barely pushing it).

It's because no gaming company thought to put it into a friendly form like the Wiimote.:lol

I really think that's what ended up selling the motion concept. And the pointer was probably the best idea they could have had. Which again I like to see the concept expanded on.

I'm really not sold on Natal though. Developers have had more then a few problems just using the Wiimote and that's nowhere near the departure that Natal is.

I don't see developers really "getting" it.

 

[A.CHAP]

It's just words to rile people up. We see what happens when you remove even one analog, you get a host of games on Wii which are substantially the worse off for it.

You need both to get to any sort of reasonable standard for ALL types of games. Wiimote/motion technology is simply not preferable by itself to dual analog for a metric shitfuckton of games.

I could not disagree more with this rubbish.

Im sure there are some games that work better with dual anal but there are definatly games that work better with the wii mote (as well as games that only work with wii mote).

In my experience the wii mote provides a superior experience for most games, FPSs in particular.

 

[j^aws]

Seriously, if I have one quib with Reggie, it's actually bringing out the nice games that EU happens to get. I mean, where's the Sin & Punishment 2 hype, for instance? And what happened to Trace Memory for Wii?

The irony here is that the industry harps on about innovations, yet they cannot put their collective IQs together and fulfill such a simple request: Region-free games.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Dual anal.

Now there's a control scheme.

 

[Raist]

The irony here is that the industry harps on about innovations, yet they cannot put their collective IQs together and fulfill such a simple request: Region-free games.

Well it actually improved a lot on that front this gen. Sony does it 100%, and AFAIK some 360 games are region free as well (up to the devs?).

 

[charlequin]

What are the odds of Nintendo using two cameras and LEDs in their next system? What if they put a camera in the censor bar as well as LEDs in the controller?

Hmmm. I'm not sure how useful this would actually be, although I guess if you can do it cheaply enough (or if camera-related functions become so "standard" that everyone feels compelled to ship with a camera right out of the box next gen) you might as well.

This does make me want some developer for Move to take advantage of that system reversing the orientation and do head-tracking like in that Wii video by having people tape the lollipop to their head. :lol

 

[Lonely1]

We will need objective measurements to determine. Wii's IR camera has rather low resolution (128x96 @ 100Hz interpolated 8x to 1024X768).

The internal sensors in Move seem to be quick and precise to detect orientation (e.g., gyro is 2500 degrees/second compared to SIXAXIS's 300 degrees/second). PSEye also has a higher resolution and framerate (320x240 @ 120Hz)

But the wiimote camera only has to keep track of two points (or up two 4) in a rather narrow area. The effective resolution is of 1024X768. While the eye is designed as a general purpose digital cam that spread that 320x240 for panoramic pictures...

From wiibrew:
"The IR camera has an effective field of view is about 33 degrees horizontally and 23 degrees vertically "

From Wiki:
"The camera features a two-setting adjustable fixed focus zoom lens. Selected manually by rotating the lens barrel, the PlayStation Eye can be set to a 56-degree field of view similar to that of the EyeToy,[10] for close-up framing in chat applications, or a 75-degree field of view for long shot framing in interactive physical gaming applications."

Also, Iwata said that the wiimote camera was 200-300 fps, irc.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

- to -

Copying gorillas probably made him more moist than copying cats.

Not copying, in the legal sense. Someone has the exclusive license for Donkey Kong named sail boats because of that outcome!

 

[j^aws]

Well it actually improved a lot on that front this gen. Sony does it 100%, and AFAIK some 360 games are region free as well (up to the devs?).

Well, if someone wants to play a game, it shouldn't be up to devs to deny them, especially in this modern-age. All platform providers should be striving for region-free games as standard.

Not copying, in the legal sense. Someone has the exclusive license for Donkey Kong named sail boats because of that outcome!

The secret to copying is having good lawyers!

 

[Jokeropia]

Now if you follow the same logic, then you could say that the philosophy behind the Wii is a total rip-off of Sony's Eyetoy. An simple, casual and family friendly device, based on an alternative method of input which is far more accessible, and focused on simple fun games (Eyetoy party) or stuff like Wii Fit (Eyetoy kinetics). They just used a different type of controller, but it's exactly the same basic concept.

Nintendo (together with Mattel and Bandai) did this on the NES with the Power Glove and Power Pad.

Plus nintendo knows that Sony has the largest pool of incredibly talented developer houses under their belt.

:lol

Either you're basing this on your opinion, which makes it irrelevant as you can't project it on Nintendo, or you trying to use some objective standard, which makes it false.

Sony has been doing motion control gaming since...before Nintendo.

Eyetoy anyone? That was 11 years ago.

Power Glove anyone? That was 21 years ago.

 

[mantidor]

I do think the handles are a pretty big innovation, actually. Up through the 16-bit generation, everyone was still doing flat "pads"; Sony really are the first people to put out a console with a rounded, handled controller (even an uncomfortable one like the original PS1 controller) and also to provide multiple index-finger shoulder buttons for a single hand.

Handles actually were a first with the virtual boy, and the double shoulder buttons are another example of sony thinking more is better, when you use both the index and middle finger you lose grip of the controller, I haven't found those buttons that important or relevant for most games.

And thats the important thing, stuff that Nintendo introduced and that became standard didn't do so just because, it did because it had the software that showed its potential. The analog stick change the industry not because of itself, but because it came with Mario 64 and the whole package became a blueprint for 3D gaming.

And is the same with motion and wiisports, although that case wasn't that succesful in becoming a blueprint, I guess it wasn't as intuitive to understand as the stick and 3D.

 

[out0v0rder]

A.Chap just said Dual Anal

 

[patsu]

But the wiimote camera only has to keep track of two points (or up two 4) in a rather narrow area.

Sure, like I said, We will only know by measuring the outcome.

Ignoring other app level and TV equipment lags, I have read that PS Move has a lag of 22ms.
The higher resolution and sensor precision help Move to address HD requirements.

Wii addresses SD applications. The lower specs should be sufficient to deal with the same pointing use case. It is probably a waste of money to over spec it.

EDIT:
There are multiple references to Wiimote camera framerate. They all point to 100Hz.

Just found out over here that Wii's gyro is 1600 degrees/second vs Move's 2500 degrees/second.



In reality, the users will judge the outcome via game titles and equipment setup. The programmers may add application-specific lags to the basic controller performances.

 

[Raist]

Nintendo (together with Mattel and Bandai) did this on the NES with the Power Glove and Power Pad.

Nintendo had absolutely nothing to do with the development or release of the glove, which had barely any games that weren't even targeting "casual" gamers. I don't see how this is comparable in any way.
As for the Pad, it's mostly the same story, except that AFAIK it was indeed developed "for families". Was more DDR's ancestor than anything. Although I think Nintendo eventually bought the rights for that one, it's not like they came up with it and tried to push it in any way (I'm not even sure they ever developed a game for it themselves).

 

[charlequin]

the double shoulder buttons are another example of sony thinking more is better, when you use both the index and middle finger you lose grip of the controller

You're not supposed to use the bottom buttons with your middle fingers, you're supposed to move your index fingers.

Two sets of shoulder buttons (or nowadays, triggers plus bumpers) are pretty much a necessity for controlling games with dual analogs so you have access to enough buttons without moving your thumb away from the right stick. It's a pretty important change for a lot of games these days, even if it was relatively unimportant on the original analog-free PS1 pad.

And thats the important thing, stuff that Nintendo introduced and that became standard didn't do so just because

don't make me turn this car around and start laying the smackdown on the Nintendo side

 

[Lonely1]

Sure, like I said, We will only know by measuring the outcome.

Ignoring other app level and TV equipment lags, I have read that PS Move has a lag of 22ms.
The higher resolution and sensor precision help Move to address HD requirements.

Wii addresses SD applications. The lower specs should be sufficient to deal with the same pointing use case. It is probably a waste of money to over spec it.

So, you are saying that, for pointing, (since for keeping tracking of the wand in the space, move is obviously better) Move is more precise? Sorry, but I still don't buy that given the info we have. Again, you failed to adress that, although the Ps3 Eye camera is indeed of higher resolution, that resolution covers a bigger area. I don't see the current wii-mote having problems with precision at HD resolutions.

EDIT:
There are multiple references to Wiimote camera framerate. They all point to 100Hz.

You are comparing the already depured data that the wii-mote feeds to the console to the raw images that the eye is feeding the Ps3. Those 120 images per second need still to be processed and compared to the other Move data in order to find the pointing location. While the wii-remote is feeding all the info you need ready to use in the form of coordinates at 100hz. At least, that's my understanding.

 

[j^aws]

Handles actually were a first with the virtual boy, and the double shoulder buttons are another example of sony thinking more is better, when you use both the index and middle finger you lose grip of the controller, I haven't found those buttons that important or relevant for most games.

And thats the important thing, stuff that Nintendo introduced and that became standard didn't do so just because, it did because it had the software that showed its potential. The analog stick change the industry not because of itself, but because it came with Mario 64 and the whole package became a blueprint for 3D gaming.

And is the same with motion and wiisports, although that case wasn't that succesful in becoming a blueprint, I guess it wasn't as intuitive to understand as the stick and 3D.

I don't want to get into the 'who came up with the handle' debate, but grip-style, third-party controllers existed throughout the 80s on various platforms.

And your point about Nintendo delivering games with the appropriate controller is agreeable, they make it a whole; but this is no different than 'custom controller + game' that were released in Arcades or other systems... The 'best' games are designed with the 'best' controller in mind.

 

[Jokeropia]

Nintendo had absolutely nothing to do with the development or release of the glove, which had barely any games that weren't even targeting "casual" gamers. I don't see how this is comparable in any way.
As for the Pad, it's mostly the same story, except that AFAIK it was indeed developed "for families". Was more DDR's ancestor than anything. Although I think Nintendo eventually bought the rights for that one, it's not like they came up with it and tried to push it in any way (I'm not even sure they ever developed a game for it themselves).

The point is that Eyetoy was not first with either motion controlled, fitness or "family" gaming, so there's no need for Nintendo to have gotten these concepts from it. (In fact, "family" gaming in particular was a central concept of the system itself, hence "Family Computer".)

 

[cakefoo]

So, you are saying that, for pointing, (since for keeping tracking of the wand in the space, move is obviously better) Move is more precise? Sorry, but I still don't buy that given the info we have. Again, you failed to adress that, although the Ps3 Eye camera is indeed of higher resolution, that resolution covers a bigger area. I don't see the current wii-mote having problems with precision at HD resolutions.


You are comparing the already depured data that the wii-mote feeds to the console to the raw images that the eye is feeding the Ps3. Those 120 images per second need still to be processed and compared to the other Move data in order to find the pointing location. While the wii-remote is feeding all the info you need ready to use in the form of coordinates at 100hz. At least, that's my understanding.

I don't think the Eye is used for pointing. It's all done with gyros and magnetometers.

 

[Lonely1]

I don't think the Eye is used for pointing. It's all done with gyros and magnetometers.

Would like very much a source for this. its importance might be lower than what im thinking, but I don't see Move not needing it.

 

[cakefoo]

Would like very much a source for this.

Gyros could detect tilt and roll, while the magnetometer could function as a compass to maintain calibration on the yaw axis. The Eye I believe is used not for orientation, but for position. Knowing position of the remote and TV are mandatory for realistic lightgun-like pointing.

M+ without the sensor bar tracks orientation really well. Just cover up the camera and rotate the controller in WSR skydiving. Add in a webcam and a glowing sphere and the Wii could know with 100% certainty where the controller is. Add in a magnetometer and you could complete the solution. But since the Wiimote+ doesn't have a magnetometer or sphere/camera, the position drifts and the yaw drifts, and it has to rely instead on the IR sensor bar.

 

[revolverjgw]

Dual anal.

Now there's a control scheme.

If you're double penetrating a girl with another dude, and your dicks touch, does that make you gay? I always wanted to know