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Miyamoto: E3 is no longer for showing core games
- Thread starter Guybrush Threepwood
- Start date
Steve Youngblood said:
Didn't like what you found when you compared the Wii to the SNES, huh? I thought we were talking about Nintendo faltering or releasing less; now you've shifted the spotlight off Nintendo and onto every game developer in existence. That's a helluva move. Very inclusive of you.
As for which I'd recommend: Who am I recommending this to? A friend, right? Well, most my friends have families and I'm sure they'd love being able to play games in their living room with their kids, extended family. So yeah, I'd suggest the Wii.
gutshot said:
There's a difference between criticizing them for a decision you don't agree with and hitting the panic button, arms flailing, and screaming that the end is nigh. The latter is what we're arguing against, not criticism in and of itself.
No, you simply don't know what you're talking about. The basis of your argument lies on the assumption that the number of Nintendo published core games has gone down because they've moved resources to making casual stuff, this assumption is false. I don't remember getting mainline Mario, Zelda, and Metroid within the first two years of any former Nintendo console, they've also put out MK, SBB and a mainline Wario, AC, FE, err, wait.....Steve Youngblood said:
How typical, spew forth shit for a couple of hours and than, when in a corner change the subject entirely.
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
Door2Dawn said:
Qft. We will see the games later this year, no worries.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I might too to such a demographic. I was mainly talking about traditional gamers.Vinci said:
As for your first argument, I just don't have the time to go back to analyze lists right now (I'm at work and have been wasting enough time already). You may be on to something, here. Perhaps I've framed my argument wrong, but I'm not going to make a point based on hazy memories from the early 90s. I do believe the situation is worse today, and maybe I can argue this better this evening. Until then, I suppose I have no choice but to concede the argument.
Well.. My girlfriend who has not owned, played or cared about video games since the 80's wants to buy a wii for wiifit/sports etc. I volunteer at a care home for older people and they have 2 wii's for wii sports as an activity! NOT core gamers:lol
The amount of money nintendo is making off these kind of buyers is probably quite high.
but my question is, why completely ignore the set of gamers that carried the company through the last 15-20 years? It's not like they don't exist.
There is a reason I will will not buy a wii for myself (maybe my girlfriend:lol ). There are not enough games on it that I would actually play. And nintendo seems focused on making the gamers that have NOTHING in common with me excited. (if they even know what an "e3" is. I doubt they have ever heard about it, and bought the wii because one of their non-gamer friends told them it was cool)
The amount of money nintendo is making off these kind of buyers is probably quite high.
but my question is, why completely ignore the set of gamers that carried the company through the last 15-20 years? It's not like they don't exist.
There is a reason I will will not buy a wii for myself (maybe my girlfriend:lol ). There are not enough games on it that I would actually play. And nintendo seems focused on making the gamers that have NOTHING in common with me excited. (if they even know what an "e3" is. I doubt they have ever heard about it, and bought the wii because one of their non-gamer friends told them it was cool)
Kabuki Waq
Member
i doubt casuals care about e3.
Petrae
Member
gutshot said:
Exactly. That's fine if Nintendo wants to run its railroad according to its own rules, but its passengers don't necessarily have to approve of those rules. As a Wii and a DS owner, I saw absolute zero at the press event that I planned on buying or even had a passing interest in, aside from possibly Shaun White Snowboarding.
I was excited about Wii Sports Resort... until I saw Disc Dog, and then that epic sword battle between Reggie and Cammie. I'm soured now. It's a personal opinion that can change as the game comes closer to release, but as of right now, no thanks.
I had been excited for Wii Music... I am probably one of, like, ten people who wanted another Mad Maestro-type game, and Wii Music initially looked like it. Then I saw that horrendous demonstration, followed by the initial playlist... and there went my interest, at least for now.
I know that I'm only one person in a myriad of fellow Nintendo hardware owners, but, having bought Nintendo hardware for over two decades now, I can speak my mind when I think that Nintendo shit the bed on Tuesday afternoon.
sure. it still has more stuff that really interests me coming up than the competition does, though i think the gap may have closed in the past few months (and i'm assuming that everything coming in japan will be localized, which isn't necessarily true, and tends to favor wii).Steve Youngblood said:
the "best system" is the one that has the games you most want to play, right?
Ra\/en said:
They do exist, and they're a good part of the reason why many of Nintendo's core franchises are selling more on the Wii than they did before. Because they're capturing sales from those gamers you just mentioned and more demographics besides. This is routinely called in business circles 'intelligent.'
Again: They're not ignoring gamers. They have simply prioritized this particular event, an industry event that is waning into nothingness likely after this year and gets some notice from the mainstream press, towards their more casual fare. I'm sure their October event this year will focus almost entirely on the core gamer stuff, so don't get bent out of shape about it.
Steve Youngblood said:
At what point did I state that my friends weren't traditional gamers? The fact that they have a family shouldn't automatically rule that out. Helll, all of my closest friends have owned game systems as long as I have - 20 years +. But yeah, I'd still recommend the Wii given what I think they'll enjoy the most. Which is family time. Also Mario Galaxy, 'cause you have to at least give me that one - it's awesome, right? Right? Huh?
You don't have to concede anything, man. I understand. It was a lot to ask of you for something as silly as a forum disagreement, so don't worry about it. I simply think that anyone stating that Nintendo catering to casuals using one of their internal teams is somehow screwing up their production of more traditional stuff to be kind of silly. Now if half of EAD were working on the 'Wii ___' titles, I'd say you have a fair point. But one team? Really? And it's the team that makes Animal Crossing?
TheGrayGhost
Banned
Malstrom will have a field day with the "hardcore" parodying themselves the past few days. I hope he returns from his sabbatical soon.
Petrae
Member
Door2Dawn said:
Possibly... but figuratively turning your back on a group of consumers by largely ignoring their existence during one of their most widespread press appearances of the year certainly warrants some criticism from members of that group. Perhaps there's overreaction instead of rational discussion, but the purpose behind it is genuine.
We saw Gears of War 2 and Fallout 3 at Microsoft's event. We saw Resistance 2 and DC Universe Online at Sony's event. Both Sony and Microsoft showed games that appeal to both the core and the casual demographics.
Nintendo did not.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
They better have another October conference of awesome.
Petrae
Member
Door2Dawn said:
Or take our money elsewhere. Whichever fits. Obviously Nintendo has enough money for a thousand lifetimes, so shitting all over a group of consumers that supported them for years-- even decades-- is just fine. Nintendo doesn't need our money; they've got the casuals now.
What an incredibly blase attitude.
Fine. IF it happens. That still doesn't answer for a pretty lame event that involved a bunch of "We're great and everyone knows it" with some frankly embarrassing demos thrown in for good measure.
Petrae said:
Hell, man, even the people in here seemingly defending Nintendo (including myself) likely have a bone or two to pick with Nintendo over how they handled the conference. [No montage of the 3rd party titles? Really?] The difference is, we understand what their intention is with E3 and accept that, for good or bad, that's how they view it. What we're mostly (I think) taking issue with, are the people going around spouting nonsense about how Nintendo is now casual-land only and that the Mario and Zelda teams are off making 'Wii Chainsmoking' or something. It's foolish and a gross overreaction. Now, people who want to intelligently discuss how they disagree with Nintendo's decision - I've no problem with them. Really. It's the twitchy 'end is nigh' folks that are annoying me.
Yeah totally. Come on Nintendo, where's our Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Smash Bros., Mario Kart and Fire Emblem amongst others?! Oh wait, they just release all those (obviously not mentioning the rest which they released in such a short time period compared to both the n64 and gamecube). There's only so much 1 company alone can release, especially if almost all of them are being released within 6-8 months of eachother. When that happens, the teams need some time to make new software. SHOCKING I know.Steve Youngblood said:
In the meantime they only really released Wii Fit and Wii Sports on the other end. Two whole games! How DARE THEY expand the videogame market. Oh how the mighty have fallen. Nintendo obviously don't care about the core with these insane amounts of casual games. :') I hope to god some of you in this thread are joking because you can't actually be serious.
Name one company that has released or developed as many high profile software as Nintendo in the same time period ? I at least can't name one. And that's just their Wii output so even WITHOUT their DS titles that they also released in the same time.
It's not bullshit when it's the truth that Nintendo is choosing to ignore its longtime fans during what should be the biggest press event for video gaming of the year.Door2Dawn said:
If they had simply chosen not to show up, it wouldn't be a big deal. It'd be more like, "Okay, so they've given up on E3. That's fine."
Instead they DO show up and then almost completely ignore us.
If that doesn't bother you, fine. That doesn't make you the end all be all of what is right in the world.
Chill the fuck out, Sparky.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Mario Galaxy was phenomenal. Prime 3 in August of last year was also solid, though I found the series to be getting somewhat stale. The point where I'm arguing from is that, between August and the year's end on the Wii, we got two good Nintendo games that were both from their proven stables. Yes, they were great. In between those, however, I was playing Bioshock, Halo, The Orange Box, Call of Duty, Rock Band, and Mass Effect on the 360 (Guitar Hero also goes here, but that was also a Wii title so that's not fair). As soon as I finished with Mario, the countdown began for Smash Bros. and Mario Kart, two more completely expected titles. Yes, there have been solid titles, and the system isn't a disgrace, it's just that overall you can surely understand how one can be underwhelmed even if they are finding diamonds in the rough?Vinci said:At what point did I state that my friends weren't traditional gamers? The fact that they have a family shouldn't automatically rule that out. Helll, all of my closest friends have owned game systems as long as I have - 20 years +. But yeah, I'd still recommend the Wii given what I think they'll enjoy the most. Which is family time. Also Mario Galaxy, 'cause you have to at least give me that one - it's awesome, right? Right? Huh?
As for the recommendation argument, I can understand where you're coming from. To me, though, I still think that if I'm talking to somebody has both time and money to dedicate to serious gaming, the Wii is at the bottom of the list for me. Again, I'm not saying that it's a pile of trash, just kind of disappointing in the long run. It's my Nintendo mascot (nothing wrong with that) and "impress people at parties who don't play games" machine.
Just for clarification, concerning what you're arguing, I do hope you're right. I own the Wii, and I like Nintendo. I've just been disappointed though on the whole with the direction I'm preceiving. If they start announcing killer software, I'll be more than happy to come back and announce that I was a fool and that Vinci was right.
TheOneGuy said:
But he's right. They did the exact same thing last year, and yet we had core games from them that weren't focused on at E3 2007. How people are reacting is ridiculous considering Nintendo made it very clear last year what they were using E3 for from not on till it's completely dead. If it weren't for their interest in getting the casuals' attention, then they likely wouldn't have shown up at all.
Petrae
Member
Vinci said:
It's understandable to bristle when people overreact and you try to being some sanity to the conversation. (Like the FFXIII multiplatform freakout, for example.) Obviously there are games in the pipeline for both consumer segments; one only needs to look at the myriad of press releases from Nintendo itself and from its third-party publishers to see this.
My nitpick is more with the contents of the show itself, and, admittedly, what I would have liked to have seen. I don't understand why there wasn't even a bone thrown to the core audience. Microsoft and Sony both offered at least something to appeal to both sides... but Nintendo did nothing of the sort.
It's criticism. Not doom. I'm sure that NOA brass is going to look back on this and hopefully improve.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
E3 lost relevance as "the biggest press event of the year" quite a while ago. Hell, several companies chose not to participate this year. Arguably Games Convention is becoming the big PR event, along with TGS for the Japanese devs.TheOneGuy said:
Door2Dawn said:
It's not just the fact that they didn't show what we were interested in, it is the fact that they told us they would show us these games and they didn't.
Then to add insult to injury by stating that Animal Crossing and GTA DS were the games they were talking about, what more do we want? Now they are backpedaling even more by saying that e3 isn't about the core gamer.
Well than why did you tell us before the show that there would be core games there?
Bottom line is, it was poorly handled by Nintendo, and that is where the criticism is being directed.
Steve Youngblood said:
High fucking five to that. Amen.
All from proven, quality developers. No doubts there. Good choices, by the way.
Do I think it's underwhelming, is that what you're asking? Honestly? Yes. But blaming that entirely on Nintendo and their output is a losing argument IMO, 'cause I think their support for this machine has been stellar. Just super. Yes, they're using their core franchises pretty robustly at this point - but what else were they going to do during the early adoption period of this system? Not release them? People didn't buy the 360 for Halo 3? Or the PS3 for MGS4 or (ironically) FF XIII? There are expected titles on every side here, and those are IMO all the most likely reasons why gamers jumped onboard. Hell, with the exception of Resistance, was there anything really for the PS3 for a while worth playing right then? I sure didn't think so. So why did people buy it? Potential and for things that they knew were coming. The big guns. Solid Snake. Characters and franchises they knew would see a release on that particular console.
The difference is, Sony and Microsoft had the developers eating out of their hands. Nintendo wasn't supposed to be #2 even, much less #1. So everyone invested money into HD assets and engines, what have you, and are now in a tight spot since those systems aren't keeping up with the quantity the Wii is selling. Do I think the Wii will see more games over time? Hell yeah. Do I think it'll get every major franchise? Of course not. Which system is? Do I think it'll get most of the experimental stuff? It'll get a fair share. So if you're asking if the Wii is ever going to get the software deluge the PS2 did, the answer is no. But I don't think any console is getting that.
It's great for families though. Believe me. I couldn't recommend any other system but the Wii after seeing how some of my friends' and relatives' families have taken to it and made it their home for gaming. But I can understand your perspective.
You don't have to do that. Just keep an eye open for quality software for the system, buy it, and enjoy it. Every console is going to have good, great, even awesome games on it.
Xisiqomelir
Member
WORLDWIDEWII said:
I'm all for this. The slap in the face would be even bigger if they had it the same day as E3 but in a different city, much like Macworld destroying CES the year they debuted the iPhone.
The_Inquisitor
Member
I don't think he could have been any more wrong. I quickly glanced through the responses and I agree your average soccer mom or younger kid wasn't glued to their computer hitting f5 on GAF during the E3 press conferences. Hell, I haven't even heard a word about it from the mainstream press.
E3 is built FOR the hardcore gamer. I see E3 as a chance for developers and companies to lay out a blueprint of where they want their console to go. If I go by that, I am concerned with Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. However, they announced things that someone else certainly might find interesting. The best moments for me were when XIII went multi, God of War III was confirmed, Resistance 2, KZ2, and Gears 2.
Notice most of these are not considered casual, yet if you look at the boards these are some of the most talked about. Sure grabbing a new marketshare of gamers is great, but you have to still support your foundation; in other words people like us who have no problem blowing 60 dollars at a time to support our addictions. :lol :lol
In a nutshell, Miyamoto is wrong. E3 should be ALL about the core games. Let the casual spread as it has thus far; by word of mouth.
E3 is built FOR the hardcore gamer. I see E3 as a chance for developers and companies to lay out a blueprint of where they want their console to go. If I go by that, I am concerned with Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo. However, they announced things that someone else certainly might find interesting. The best moments for me were when XIII went multi, God of War III was confirmed, Resistance 2, KZ2, and Gears 2.
Notice most of these are not considered casual, yet if you look at the boards these are some of the most talked about. Sure grabbing a new marketshare of gamers is great, but you have to still support your foundation; in other words people like us who have no problem blowing 60 dollars at a time to support our addictions. :lol :lol
In a nutshell, Miyamoto is wrong. E3 should be ALL about the core games. Let the casual spread as it has thus far; by word of mouth.
Then Nintendo should have two conferences. E3 isn't just for casual bullshit because they say it is. Sony and MS clearly understand there's two markets now.
But it's not even about giving attention to real games through a separate conference.
15 FUCKING SECONDS OF A MONTAGE is all we need. That's it. 15 seconds out of an HOUR long conference isn't deemed worth it?
I call bullshit.
But it's not even about giving attention to real games through a separate conference.
15 FUCKING SECONDS OF A MONTAGE is all we need. That's it. 15 seconds out of an HOUR long conference isn't deemed worth it?
I call bullshit.
Black-Wind
Member
I guess early Oct again seeing as that was right before E-4-All where they let people demo SSBB and stuff.Linkhero1 said:
For me the problem is that Wii Music sucked and that Animal Crossing wasn't much different from the GCN games(and I'm not talking about graphics...). Wii Sports Resort is day 1 for me with the Wave Race part but that's a 2009 title. So I hope that Nintendo has something else during the holiday season.
Their comments indicate that they have nothing more planned for Q4 and that they're already planning software further down the line. I'm thinking about a summer 2009 release for Pikmin 3 and perhaps a Q4 2009 release for the next Zelda.
Nintendo's output has decreased by almost 50% this year. Especially if Smash Bros. is not included in the 2008 list because of the unexpected delay. The quality has gone down overall as well. Wii Music isn't looking great and AC is a bit of a rehash. Even if they have Pikmin 3 for Q4(and I will be happy if they do!) there's still a reason to be worried about their software releases. They need to expand their development groups or localize more Japanese games. Even their DS line-up is not up to their standards with roughly 15 titles in 2007 including Zelda and Pokemon Pearl/Diamond compared to 8 games in 2008 of which 2 are remakes. You'd think that when time goes on it would be easier for them to release more games. Better knowledge of the hardware, re-using assets, longer development cycles etc.
US Wii Software 2007:
US Wii Software 2008:
Their comments indicate that they have nothing more planned for Q4 and that they're already planning software further down the line. I'm thinking about a summer 2009 release for Pikmin 3 and perhaps a Q4 2009 release for the next Zelda.
Nintendo's output has decreased by almost 50% this year. Especially if Smash Bros. is not included in the 2008 list because of the unexpected delay. The quality has gone down overall as well. Wii Music isn't looking great and AC is a bit of a rehash. Even if they have Pikmin 3 for Q4(and I will be happy if they do!) there's still a reason to be worried about their software releases. They need to expand their development groups or localize more Japanese games. Even their DS line-up is not up to their standards with roughly 15 titles in 2007 including Zelda and Pokemon Pearl/Diamond compared to 8 games in 2008 of which 2 are remakes. You'd think that when time goes on it would be easier for them to release more games. Better knowledge of the hardware, re-using assets, longer development cycles etc.
US Wii Software 2007:
US Wii Software 2008:
Steve Youngblood
Member
That right there is something I wanted to address. I've argued this in other threads, but I think I got sidetracked here. Concerning the "casual" games with simplistic, universal game mechanics, I'm all for them done right. However, it means that I want more games like Boom Blox, and less Wii ____ games that still seem stuck on just demonstrating what the system can do instead of fully fleshing out a unique game idea. Sure, I'm not opposed to more core Nintendo franchise titles as they're what I expect from a Nintendo system. I've just become somewhat disillusioned with the game design they've been peddling ever since Wii Sports captivated audiences. And this disillusionment gets exasperated after watching something like the E3 2008 conference.Vinci said:
Guys, this could very well be the last E3. So it's not going to matter that much in the end. It's a dying, if not dead, show.
Capcom took the same route as Nintendo pretty much. Even Sony barely showed off anything new.
It sucks, it actually makes me sad, because of how much I loved the E3 hype, but that's just how it'll be from now on. :[
Capcom took the same route as Nintendo pretty much. Even Sony barely showed off anything new.
It sucks, it actually makes me sad, because of how much I loved the E3 hype, but that's just how it'll be from now on. :[
The situation is very different from last year. In the previous E3, yes, we got Wii Fit announcement. But Metroid Prime 3 launches next month. We already knew about Mario Galaxy. They announcied Mario Kart Wii. Super Smash Bros Brawl was announcied one year ago (in E3 2006). We got also more information about Zelda Phantom Hourglass.
Yes, they only presented Mario Kart Wii, and a brief video of the next first parties (the ones that i said in the previous paragraph). But we knew that there was a lot of good games about to launch.
Now, we got nothing. Animal Crossing. And the promise that there will be (one year or another) a Pikmin, and that Mario and Zelda teams are not fired.
Really, anyone thinks that this situation is remotely similar than the last year???
Yes, they only presented Mario Kart Wii, and a brief video of the next first parties (the ones that i said in the previous paragraph). But we knew that there was a lot of good games about to launch.
Now, we got nothing. Animal Crossing. And the promise that there will be (one year or another) a Pikmin, and that Mario and Zelda teams are not fired.
Really, anyone thinks that this situation is remotely similar than the last year???
EricDiesel
Member
FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK
That's all I have to say about this shitfest of a thread.
Keep bashing Nintendo all you like, but the fact of the matter is:
1) The Mario and Zelda teams are working on games we've not seen. Iwata said that at the press conference. Go and be a conspiracy theorist and think it's a lie if you like, but he said it.
2) Big fucking mainstream press journalists were at the press conference. They showed off Wii Sports 2 and Wii Music knowing they'd report on it. That's what their goal was. Fuck what YOU wanted. This was Nintendo's best chance at getting this into to mainstream.
3) You will get your information on those unseen games at another show. One where fucking USA Today and the like won't attend. One for the enthusiast gamers. "BUBUBUBU- THEY AREN'T AS WIDELY COVERED." Who fucking cares? IGN, Gamespot, and 1UP will probably be there. Who else do you need?
4) The rest of the year looks barren on the Wii to you? How about instead of acting like an entitled little bitch you do what I did, man up, and BUY A FUCKING 360. HOOOOLY SHIT. WHAT A NOVEL IDEA. If gaming is so important to you that you bitch about it on NeoGAF, invest the fucking $350 and get a 360 and a game. Or a PS3, if you like.
5) Stop being fucking stupid.
FUCKING /THREAD
That's all I have to say about this shitfest of a thread.
Keep bashing Nintendo all you like, but the fact of the matter is:
1) The Mario and Zelda teams are working on games we've not seen. Iwata said that at the press conference. Go and be a conspiracy theorist and think it's a lie if you like, but he said it.
2) Big fucking mainstream press journalists were at the press conference. They showed off Wii Sports 2 and Wii Music knowing they'd report on it. That's what their goal was. Fuck what YOU wanted. This was Nintendo's best chance at getting this into to mainstream.
3) You will get your information on those unseen games at another show. One where fucking USA Today and the like won't attend. One for the enthusiast gamers. "BUBUBUBU- THEY AREN'T AS WIDELY COVERED." Who fucking cares? IGN, Gamespot, and 1UP will probably be there. Who else do you need?
4) The rest of the year looks barren on the Wii to you? How about instead of acting like an entitled little bitch you do what I did, man up, and BUY A FUCKING 360. HOOOOLY SHIT. WHAT A NOVEL IDEA. If gaming is so important to you that you bitch about it on NeoGAF, invest the fucking $350 and get a 360 and a game. Or a PS3, if you like.
5) Stop being fucking stupid.
FUCKING /THREAD
Ra\/en said:
Ah, what an intelligent addition to this on-going conversation.
Let me guess: You didn't own the N64 or the GC and probably never played the SNES or NES, right? I love how many Sony or Xbox fan(atics) traipse into these threads and start spewing venom about Nintendo and how the company has "gone away from what made them so rich in the first place!" when they have never been part of that crowd in the first place.
Anyone who can say with a straight face that Nintendo has abandoned their base this generation is an idiot or a fool or both. We're not even two years in yet and we've had new Zelda, Mario, Metroid, Mario Kart, Paper Mario, Wario Ware and Fire Emblem sequels and Wario Land, Animal Crossing and various Mario sports games are on the way.
But, they focus their attention on so-called casual games at one stupid conference and all of that is erased? I sure hope your ass is clean, because it seems like your head will be spending a lot of time inside of it.
I wish Nintendo had shown us how Pikmin is progressing, or the new Mario, or the new Zelda - or, hell, a few new IPs for crying out loud! - but I'm not losing sleep over the fact that they didn't do what I wanted, and I'm sure as hell not thinking about selling my Wii.
I've bought more games for the Wii - less than two years into the generation - than I ever bought for the GC or even the PS2. Only system I own more games for than the Wii right now is the PS1, and the Wii is catching up. That shows me that Nintendo is doing a fine job keeping its base happy.
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