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[RockmanWhore]

If anything, the world need more designer like Miyamoto, who doesn't give a shit about story. The more it goes the less games are games, they're filled with overly intrusive cutscenes, scripted shit or QTE every 5 seconds. It's like you're watching a movie with some gameplay here and there.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

How isn't this trollpit locked?

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

How isn't this trollpit locked?

Because opinions.

 

[GCX]

The last 3 games directed by Miyamoto are Steel Diver, Wii Music, and Wii Fit. I hope he retires and takes his lame game ideas with him.

So much misinformation in one post that it makes my head hurt.

 

[DragonSworne]

I blame Miyamoto for a lot of needless delays in most Nintendo games.

They will make developers trash and restart in games because of minor details or force them to go in tangents that lead to disaster.

The guy needs to get out of managing game development at the macro level and go off and focus on his own game with his own team.

 

[Sadist]

I was ready to go into Paper Mario close to when it launched, because I was expecting at least a few RPG elements, but it turned out that Miyamoto had stripped out all the RPG in it. When I saw the quicklook at GiantBomb, I saw what the game had become and decided that I would rather not buy it. If I want a Mario platformer, I'll play the other 100 mario platformers thanks.

But it's not. It's a adventure game

 

[GCX]

I blame Miyamoto for a lot of needless delays in most Nintendo games.

They will make developers trash and restart in games because of minor details or force them to go in tangents that lead to disaster.

You don't have any facts to prove this, do you?

 

[IrishNinja]

I blame Miyamoto for a lot of needless delays in most Nintendo games.

They will make developers trash and restart in games because of minor details or force them to go in tangents that lead to disaster.

The guy needs to get out of managing game development at the macro level and go off and focus on his own game with his own team.

can you give any examples? i know pikmin 3 is mad late, but something specific-like

 

[Nocturnowl]

I don't remember anything about Miyamoto being singled out as the guy who removed Kremlings from DKCR, I remember the horrible blowing being his idea sure but even if he was the man who dared to campaign for NEW enemies I hardly see it as a devastating blow to his credibility in the grand scheme of things.

The OP reads like having one legitimate gripe regarding Sticker Star and then realizing there wasn't anything else to really rant about so here we are with the bottom of the barrel being thoroughly scraped, those kremlings man! I can't play DKCR without them!

 

[GCX]

can you give any examples? i know pikmin 3 is mad late, but something specific-like

Miyamoto's table upending has delayed some games but they're rarely about "minor details" or other trivial stuff. Twilight Princess for example was delayed because it was heading towards a colossal disaster, Pikmin 3 got switched to a different console, etc. Also Skyward Sword's long development cycle can't be blamed on Miyamoto alone (and neither can most other delays either).

 

[DragonSworne]

can you give any examples? i know pikmin 3 is mad late, but something specific-like

Making Link right handed in twilight princess and skyward sword should be offensive enough that most stupid decisions from Nintendo should be easy enough to determine who made them.

 

[Mista Koo]

I'll never forget the lackluster intro Super Mario Galaxy 2 was given after the epicness that is the original's intro.
Yes, the intro to SMG was one of the best intros I have ever seen, he replaced it in the sequel with some stupid shit for the sake of nothing.

(Note: I'm talking about the actual start of the game and the cutscene after it before you go to space, not the tutorial or whatsoever.)

 

[IrishNinja]

Miyamoto's table upending has delayed some games but they're rarely about "minor details" or other trivial stuff. Twilight Princess for example was delayed because it was heading towards a colossal disaster, Pikmin 3 got switched to a different console, etc. Also Skyward Sword's long development cycle can't be blamed on Miyamoto alone (and neither can most other delays either).

this post makes sense, and gives specifics (though id like to know more about TP's direction before the change)

Making Link right handed in twilight princess and skyward sword should be offensive enough that most stupid decisions from Nintendo should be easy enough to determine who made them.

this post kinda doesn't - right handed in the wii version, you mean? pretty sure there was more to trying in an entire control scheme than just that, but if that detail bothers you so: not all links are left-handed, coincidentally its often the ones designed for motion controls, largely played by right-handed players

 

[Mr. Saturn]

Making Link right handed in twilight princess and skyward sword should be offensive enough that most stupid decisions from Nintendo should be easy enough to determine who made them.

Why is that even a bad thing? Seriously, who gives a shit about Link's handedness.

 

[Valnen]

There are lots of things games don't need that still significantly enhance the experience.

Yup. Only including what a game "needs" is a great way to make barebones shitty games.

 

[Quackula]

Making Link right handed in twilight princess and skyward sword should be offensive enough that most stupid decisions from Nintendo should be easy enough to determine who made them.

Link was left handed when I played TP on my gamecube

I don't get why they didn't have a lefty flip option in SS though.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Miyamoto personally took a shit on my dog, fuck him.

I'm admittedly kind of annoyed at what happened to Sticker Star given how great PM2's writing was and I preferred K. Rool to Tiki Dong Dick Bong in Returns, but those are borderline-psychotic reasons to seriously hate someone. Rather, other game designers should learn to argue with him more; it's what led to Kirby being pink after all!

 

[DragonSworne]

this post makes sense, and gives specifics (though id like to know more about TP's direction before the change)



this post kinda doesn't - right handed in the wii version, you mean? pretty sure there was more to trying in an entire control scheme than just that, but if that detail bothers you so: not all links are left-handed, coincidentally its often the ones designed for motion controls, largely played by right-handed players

And what about left handed players?

Miyamoto short sightedness and horrible decision making process is present in making link right handed.

 

[Nocturnowl]

Why is that even a bad thing? Seriously, who gives a shit about Link's handedness.

Betrayed Lefties of course, you think this is some game?! Link was a hero to all left handed people, they looked up to him and knew that by his example they could all one day wield swords with their left hands as well.
But the ogre Miyamoto had cooked up a horrible scheme, in order to match up the wii remote and sword with the more dominant right handed people he took the legendary hero of left and set things "right", it's the ultimate betrayal set in motion by the malevolent Miyamoto.

 

[PKrockin]

I don't remember anything about Miyamoto being singled out as the guy who removed Kremlings from DKCR, I remember the horrible blowing being his idea sure but even if he was the man who dared to campaign for NEW enemies I hardly see it as a devastating blow to his credibility in the grand scheme of things.

The OP reads like having one legitimate gripe regarding Sticker Star and then realizing there wasn't anything else to really rant about so here we are with the bottom of the barrel being thoroughly scraped, those kremlings man! I can't play DKCR without them!

Making Link right handed in twilight princess and skyward sword should be offensive enough that most stupid decisions from Nintendo should be easy enough to determine who made them.

This is beyond scraping the bottom of the barrel. This is digging for dinosaur bones.

 

[DragonSworne]

This is beyond scraping the bottom of the barrel. This is digging for dinosaur bones.

Where there is a bone, there is a skeleton.

These are just examples and certainly not the whole scope of Miyamoto's decisions.

I'm sure the stuff we aren't aware about are worse and more idiotic.

Developers at Nintendo have to add "Miyamoto time" to all their games because he comes in and makes them change things. Are these things for the betterment of the game? I tend to think not given the outcome if most Nintendo games this past generation.

 

[zoukka]

Yeah goddamn Miyamoto and his archaic "gameplay first" method of developing games. What gaming really needs is fleshed out stories out of Kremlins, Koopas and Mario lore.

Jesus Christ the op is nuts.

 

[Always-honest]

You're young. So i'll forgive you for now.

Miyamoto thinks about his games a whole lot more than you do. I won't say he's always right, but at the very least basicly everything was a decision made for the best.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

You're young. So i'll forgive you for now.

Miyamoto thinks about his games a whole lot more than you do. I won't say he's always right, but at the very least basicly everything was a decision made for the best.

I'm old. I agree with the OP.

Removing the story elements and the sidekick characters from a Paper Mario game is not "for the best". And while I'm not as offended as some by the lack of Kremlings in DKC Returns, the way that they neutered Cranky's character and made all other Kong regulars and semi-regulars (Funky, Candy, Swanky, etc.) conspicuously absent made me see Returns as less of a DKC 4 as it is an unneeded retcon/reboot of the entire franchise.

Also, FYI, they aren't "his" games. Most if not all the games the OP mentioned were spearheaded by someone else and would have taken a different direction had Miyamoto not swooped in and "upended the tea table" as he is so fond of doing.

 

[Brickhunt]

I have mixed feeling regarding Miyamoto these days.
He is definitively a genius as a game designer and I'm really glad for his output in Metroid Prime. That said, I don't appreciate his very strong instance on the lack of story or plot. Reading what happened to sticky star makes my blood boil, since I loved the Thousand year door. There is a reason why paper Mario is a spin-off, not a "Super Mario" game.

My regarding story in games. There are more than one way to tell stories in games without prejudicing the flow of the game. Not saying that I want Mario to become a Zelda story, but I would appreciate more iniciatives like Rosalina's color book in Super Mario Galaxy. Completely optional and gives us a little world building on the Mario universe.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Kremling fan fiction is probably the crowning achievement of human civilisation.

 

[zoukka]

Miyamoto knows there aren't good writers working on videogames. He spares us the pain. I tried playing Super Paper Mario and the story was not clever or well written. It was kiddy fluff and made me eventually quit the game. I have no idea how anyone enjoys Paper Mario games with their shallow gameplay and redundant stories.

 

[IrishNinja]

right, they're not "his" games...only the faults are, apparently

Yup. Only including what a game "needs" is a great way to make barebones shitty games.

adding superfluous elements is a great way to bog down your game and either make it less fun or take control away from the player entirely
see, now we both said something vapid about nothing at all

Miyamoto short sightedness and horrible decision making process is present in making link right handed.

I'm sure the stuff we aren't aware about are worse and more idiotic.

you might as well just say he makes some levels green, when you think they should be blue...i get that you've a bone to pick with his design philosophy but you're not saying anything at all to indicate why

 

[Sadist]

I had discussions about Kremlns once. They're gone now

 

[Gilby]

Miyamoto knows there aren't good writers working on videogames. He spares us the pain. I tried playing Super Paper Mario and the story was not clever or well written. It was kiddy fluff and made me eventually quit the game. I have no idea how anyone enjoys Paper Mario games with their shallow gameplay and redundant stories.

Super Paper Mario isn't really a Paper Mario game...



And Kremlins are only good in a cheesy, nostalgic way IMO. Rare's character designs were terrible. They looooved googley eyes...

 

[dollartaco]

Miyamoto knows there aren't good writers working on videogames. He spares us the pain. I tried playing Super Paper Mario and the story was not clever or well written. It was kiddy fluff and made me eventually quit the game. I have no idea how anyone enjoys Paper Mario games with their shallow gameplay and redundant stories.

Super Paper Mario took everything good about its predecessor and burned it.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Miyamoto knows there aren't good writers working on videogames. He spares us the pain. I tried playing Super Paper Mario and the story was not clever or well written. It was kiddy fluff and made me eventually quit the game. I have no idea how anyone enjoys Paper Mario games with their shallow gameplay and redundant stories.

Everybody hates Super Paper Mario though and it plays nothing like the other games. It's the idea that Sticker Star was originally a direct sequel to the Gamecube game and then suddenly changed to more of a casual, "New Super Mario Bros"-style streamlined Paper Mario is what gets people.

Playing it at the moment and actually really dig it, but I'd be lying if I said it was better than TTYD or that I wouldn't of preferred a PM3.

 

[eXistor]

I'm playing Paper Mario Sticker Star right now and I love it and I don't see how anyone couldn't . The game doesn't need a story.

I'm not saying TTYD wasn't great, hell it's better than SS, but SS isn't TTYD and SS works perfectly fine without a story. It even more than makes up for the lack of story with a fully realised paper world (ironically a first in the series), a bigger focus on exploration and puzzle solving, all things I greatly enjoy in games.

 

[Mr Swine]

Well I'm glad that Miyamoto doesn't see the DKC games as canon to the Donkey Kong games

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Well I'm glad that Miyamoto doesn't see the DKC games as canon to the Donkey Kong games

so was DKCR's existence and the constant DKC call-outs the Mario spinoffs and Smash have just a fever dream or what

 

[Gilby]

Well I'm glad that Miyamoto doesn't see the DKC games as canon to the Donkey Kong games

Things I'm glad they didn't bring back: kremlins, the horribly designed "other" kongs
Thing they need to bring back: David Wise.

 

[Mista Koo]

the game you are looking for is

any mario game that is not a mario rpg

New or funny characters in non-rpg Marios? I don't think so.

Miyamoto knows there aren't good writers working on videogames. He spares us the pain. I tried playing Super Paper Mario and the story was not clever or well written. It was kiddy fluff and made me eventually quit the game. I have no idea how anyone enjoys Paper Mario games with their shallow gameplay and redundant stories.

Well if it was up to Miyamoto we would have gotten neither of these:

Heck, we wouldn't even have gotten the final boss of SPM nor either of these bosses.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Miyamoto knows there aren't good writers working on videogames. He spares us the pain. I tried playing Super Paper Mario and the story was not clever or well written. It was kiddy fluff and made me eventually quit the game. I have no idea how anyone enjoys Paper Mario games with their shallow gameplay and redundant stories.

Shu Takumi

 

[ZimbAdam]

I hear you on the Paper Mario stuff, I'm really disappointed with Sticker Star so far. That shit's just kind of sad, considering the brilliance of TTYD. It just feels quite empty, both in terms of story and in terms of gameplay. I mean, the first two Paper Mario games had massive worlds packed full of funny characters and things to do. Sticker Star has gotten rid of almost everything that I liked about them. The battles are a load worse as well, I mean what's the point in fighting non-boss enemies when you don't gain anything other than the occasional sticker? You can get through levels much easier if you just avoid them all, it saves stickers too.

The rest of the OP is utter bullshit though. Who gives a fuck about story in Galaxy? It's entirely unnecessary, not that I disliked it at all, just that it was a bonus. And Donkey Kong? Donkey Kong doesn't need Kremlings. I mean, I liked the DKC games back in the day, but it doesn't really matter what he's fighting. So what if they give him new villains? It's kind of inconsequential.

 

[zoukka]

Well if it was up to Miyamoto we would have gotten neither of these:

Heck, we wouldn't even have gotten the final boss of SPM nor either of these bosses.

...

Yay nerd references! (Thanks for reinforcing my stance of good writers not existing in videogames and certainly not working on Nintendo games)

Zelda could really use some of that Miyamoto law again after SS.


And I played Paper Mario on N64 and it wasn't good either. Haven't tried TTYD, but can you blame me when two other entries in the series didn't grab me.

 

[bon]

Sticker Star is considerably better than the text-heavy Super Paper Mario.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

Miyamoto knows there aren't good writers working on videogames. He spares us the pain. I tried playing Super Paper Mario and the story was not clever or well written. It was kiddy fluff and made me eventually quit the game. I have no idea how anyone enjoys Paper Mario games with their shallow gameplay and redundant stories.

Well there's your problem. You clearly went in expecting Shakespeare and were left sorely disappointed went the portly plumber who throws fireballs and flies with a magic raccoon tail didn't deliver.

 

[DICKS AHOY]

Sticker Star is considerably better than the text-heavy Super Paper Mario.

Most games are considerably better than Super Paper Mario. Sticker Star not being like that particular entry isn't why some people are disappointed in it.

 

[Valnen]

...

Yay nerd references! (Thanks for reinforcing my stance of good writers not existing in videogames and certainly not working on Nintendo games)

Nerd references? You're kind of being disrespectful to everyone around you.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

Sticker Star is considerably better than the text-heavy Super Paper Mario.

Super Paper Mario's story, despite being text-heavy, was gimped by the game's hybrid platformer nature. Why they polled people on Super Paper Mario's story and used that data to decide whether the next, decidedly more traditional Paper Mario game should have a story or not is beyond me.

 

[Mista Koo]

...

Yay nerd references! (Thanks for reinforcing my stance of good writers not existing in videogames and certainly not working on Nintendo games)

Zelda could really use some of that Miyamoto law again after SS.


And I played Paper Mario on N64 and it wasn't good either. Haven't tried TTYD, but can you blame me when two other entries in the series didn't grab me.

That's only one chapter in the game. But it's not about the nerd references, it's about bringing the unexpected and - to some of us - the funny.

Also it is simply that these games aren't cut for you, they are not even remotely bad (especially not the masterpiece that is TTYD, but you haven't tried it and most likely wouldn't like it).

 

[zoukka]

Well there's your problem. You clearly went in expecting Shakespeare and were left sorely disappointed went the portly plumber who throws fireballs and flies with a magic raccoon tail didn't deliver.

Yes who wouldn't expect amazing literature out of a super mario product.

I expect game stories to not annoy/treat me a moron. Because that's the best We can hope for. And it raises a valid question of why the hell would you try to extend the Mario lore and story when you have such limitations on what you can do with it? It's bound to be silly and simple. So any moment you are reading and not playing will be a waste of time.

Nerd references? You're kind of being disrespectful to everyone around you.

How exactly? Or do you entertain the idea that we aren't nerds at all here at the gaming side :b

 

[G-Fex]

OP go watch the Super Mario Bros live action movie

Yes who wouldn't expect amazing literature out of a super mario product.

I expect game stories to not annoy/treat me a moron. Because that's the best We can hope for. And it raises a valid question of why the hell would you try to extend the Mario lore and story when you have such limitations on what you can do with it? It's bound to be silly and simple. So any moment you are reading and not playing will be a waste of time.

Cause surely everyone wants to give Mario the sonic treatment, you know with drama, more human princesses, planet being threatened and bad vocal rock music.

 

[Neff]

Why am I reading a thread condemning the godfather of videogames, started on Christmas Day, by someone who denounces gameplay at the behest of lore/continuity/shit that only matters to people embedded too deep in escapism?

See you guys on Miiverse.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

Yes who wouldn't expect amazing literature out of a super mario product.

I expect game stories to not annoy/treat me a moron. Because that's the best We can hope for. And it raises a valid question of why the hell would you try to extend the Mario lore and story when you have such limitations on what you can do with it? It's bound to be silly and simple. So any moment you are reading and not playing will be a waste of time.