whats the story behind it? I never cared about Madeka box
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Miyazaki: Japanese animators should go observe some real human beings
- Thread starter Canis lupus
- Start date
- Status
whats the story behind it? I never cared about Madeka box
I think you guys are missing the point he was making. It's not strictly about perviness or fetishism of moe characters but the fact that these artists and story writers don't spend time with other humans and their work suffers for it. They emulate each other's shows that they like and as a result, anime is becoming a dwindling set of cliches rather than anything portraying what actual humans are like.
The Smoking Bun
Banned
Why not? I understand it's like asking to get rid of sub-genre's like Grindhouse or Schlock horror movies that were popular in 80's Hollywood but would it really be that harmful?
Ah Cowboy Bepop! Probably one of the most easiest to digest anime for a westerner
Good point about merchandising, since that is exactly the situation we see in the US with shows like BEN-10 going on forever and quality like Symbionic Titan being cancelled because they couldn't make toys. Hell, Hasbro is paying DHX to promote every new toy/playset they come up with for My Little Pony
Has there ever been an anime that explains certain facets of Japanese culture (like the nosebleed thing)?
Like a show about a Japanese kid going to the states and experiencing culture shock while his american friends find him strange?
Unknown Soldier
Member
I don't see what the problem is with people paying money for things they want and other people providing things for them to buy. That's how it works.
Wrong. There's shoujo, shonen, fujoshi, moe, and we can go from there. The top selling shows are even't moe. They're stuff like Gundam, Monogatari, Madoka, Free, with the occasional K-ON once in a blue moon.
I won't complain when there's 1 or 2 shows out there that I just categorically don't like. I complain when ALMOST ALL OF THEM are shows I don't like.
Spring-Loaded
Member
and what of the cheap imitators of the successful franchises in a given industry? Saying "well, they're making money" is like saying "well, they're still breathing" about a brain dead person
How so? I'm genuinely curious, as I know very little of the comic book industry.
Agreed with Miyazaki as well. His is the only anime I'll watch any more.
TwEE-N-Toast
Banned
He is right on. It's like young illustrators who learn by copying others styles, which is fine as long as they eventually learn the fundamentals. But some don't and just try to build on the styles that they love and lose sight of the fact that those styles were once representations of real life. So you eventually end up with this weird insular caricature of a caricature.
But-but-Miyazaki is not saying Otakus killed anime financially.
He's saying they killed it creatively.
Ah, didn't get Toonami in eastern Canada growing up, basically only anime I saw was whatever was o Fox Kids and YTV. YTV was basically just the home of Dragonball Z reruns and once a month you might see a new episode.
Alright give me examples about industry staff who are working today in the anime industry and how they exhibit similar behaviors to their audience.
Same, but I've run out of complaints and just stopped following it
SolarPowered
Member
Yeah, but this way doesn't let people dump on bad moe and perverted shows as much. No one wants to talk about problems affecting real people.
In this digital age people really can become their own islands sometimes and I think it can definitely affect the anime industry just as much as an audience with... eccentric and odd tastes.
The fetishization of the market is a separate argument than talking about the actual staff.
I'd say so.
Man, the creative industry in Japan is just seething with creepy otaku types. But I guess it's otaku making stuff that otaku want. Is that sustainable? Not if they want to get their birth rate back on track.
Because of anime's limited appeal. Because these shows are full of cliches and stereotypes that exist within Otaku culture that limit the appeal. Because their creators don't understand human interaction because they are Otaku's themselves. Which is Miyazaki's point.
Without an understanding an emulation of human interaction and characters, anime will be stuck in the cliched rut that Miyazaki believes it is in. And, judging by most in this thread, they would agree.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
So basically he just doesn't like anime other than stuff done by Hayao Miyazaki.
The sister complex shit that's been getting really popular weirds me the fuck out.
No I was just joking about you having your avatar and putting down otaku.
S'all good.The Smoking Bun
Banned
You can feel the pain in his words. Like animation was this magical thing that would allow people experience strange worlds and now it's been corrupted into a purely money making machine that only caters to what Japanese Dude-bro's
No I was just joking about you having your avatar and putting down otaku.
To clarify, my avatar is of Nigga-ty, her cutie mark is two uzi's and her special talent is being an OG .... [/Humor]
Although, how would I be considered similar to Otaku? I'm more casual fan who writes the occasional fan fic and makes pony music videos... okay I'm Otaku
It's always off putting to me, as someone who grew up with playstation jrpg's and other japanese games when I play a japanese game now and I see terrible upskirt moments and anime tropes and shit. I usually just turn it off. Thank god for games like Ni No Kuni and Lost Odyssey.
That's a reductive way of looking at it. Like you said, these otaku are carrying anime, which means more and more stuff is catered to them. You're not wrong, it's why half of the anime released this season are basically titty animes that are basically akin to porn. The merch for that stuff sells, often times way better than the shonen stuff aimed at kids that gets far more airplay and attention.
So over time, it just becomes more and more stuff like Queen's Blade or Maken-Ki or...fuck, anything that gets front paged on Sankaku Complex. People who grew up with story based anime or action based anime slowly lose interest because there's less to go around, and the industry implodes on itself because eventually, those otaku are going to get tired of that stuff, stop buying it, and that's all folks.
Yeah, this trend of showcasing the more repugnant nature of anime is killing the industry in a very similar way that the over saturation of first person shooters created by the advent of Call of Duty 4 was doing real harm to the games industry. I feel like, at the beginning of a new console cycle, we're JUST starting to break away with that as people who have purchased all of those COD games are finally starting to feel shooter fatigue.
And that's the end game. Especially for us; those not in japan who treat anime as a luxury.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Even if that were true, I don't think is nullifies his point.
I'm fairly new to Anime. But I pretty much agree with all of this, even if my experiences are brief with the medium. The influence is strong.
Yup, exactly. The moe stuff is a subset of that, but even anime that doesn't fall into that category has the same problem. And it doesn't just exist in anime. I think it's a problem in a lot of storytelling media when people learn about humanity by solely looking at just other stories in their genre of choice. It's learning about people second hand, and usually you won't end up with anything interesting to add of your own.
This too.
depths20XX
Member
Yep, there's a reason why a lot of people like his films in the west but couldn't care less about any other anime. His films have something most other anime is lacking, and it's not just the animation quality.
RoboGeorgeForeman
Banned
That's because otaku are the only ones willing to spend $200+ on an anime collectors edition with only four episodes just to see some few second nude scene that was cut from the regular edition. Also they're the only ones willing to spend $50+ for a figure of their waifu. If they cut prices down to reasonable levels, I'm sure people would purchase anime.
I personally have no problem with what's out there currently as there are always going to be decent shows like KlK, Gintama, JoJo, Psycho Pass, Shin Sekai Yori, and so on even if the industry is flooded with fanservicey stuff.
CyclopsRock
Member
He's bang on. It's no coincidence that Ghibli is held up as the best example of anime, and it does it by being as dissimilar from other anime as it's possible to be.
I think they're one in the same. Why bother making stories that relate to humans when you can just copy the last moderately successful anime/manga/comic/game released and do nearly as well?
Rose. The real question is, is that an excuse for the rest of the bad habits of the industry. I don't think it is.
Most of anime are advertisements for this or that LN/Manga. Companies like Kadokawa pay anime studios to pump out shows to advertise franchises like Attack on Titan. The staff rarely gets a say with what they're putting out except in cases of anime original works, which are few and between nowadays. Also many of these studios are out to make money and when people demand moe, then why not supply it to them? There is a demand on the consumer side for certain types of shows and so the industry supplies them with it. There are certainly fujoshi and otaku in the industry but to generalize it to such a large extent seems bullshit.
Monogatari as in Bakemonogatari? How is that and Madoka not moe??? Besides, I think it's less about that and more what Divvy wrote
Come on, Monogatari is not moe. Not even close.
I don't mind the argument about story writers spending more time with humans. That's a perfectly reasonable argument to make, but saying that the industry is filled with people who have no social skills is a separate one.
Unknown Soldier
Member
All mass media is mostly genre stuff made specifically to sell to a a fan base and the rare truly creative work. Movies, games, novels, comics. Anime is no exception there.
Because that's how you kneecap the industry.
Hell, you can argue that it's that kind of thinking that caused the games crash in the 80's.
Eh...Season 2 of Bakemonogatari and the Cat girl OAV were pretty fuckin' Moe.
It was a shame too, Season 1 was such a clever way of commentating on sexuality. But they threw it all out the window for an incest plotline.
In this thread: people who notice how shitty moe/cute girls/ecchi anime is and has always been think that there's been a sudden degradation since the late 90's/early 00's because we're now getting exposed to EVERYTHING that Japan releases and we no longer have the gatekeepers of taste in publishers and fansubs to deflect the absolute shit from us.
It's always been there, we just see it in full force nowadays. Rose tinted glasses for the past hide the crap that was produced back before everyone started complaining about the stuff they've finally become aware of.
It's always been there, we just see it in full force nowadays. Rose tinted glasses for the past hide the crap that was produced back before everyone started complaining about the stuff they've finally become aware of.
Absolutely correct.
nckillthegrimace
Member
Yeah, you tell'em, Miyazaki! It's high time that anime creators stop creating anime that obsess over little girls and outdated views of society!
Secret Fawful
Member
Wow...I um.....I have to rethink my anti-social nature in regards to my artistry. Miyazaki's words are filled with some real wisdom on this matter.
The Omega Man
Member
Otakus and Weaboos ruined everything, they made it a way of living and took that shit too seriously.
- Status