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Miyazaki: Japanese animators should go observe some real human beings

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QueenOfThorns said:
Yep. I'm sure there's decent stuff out there that doesn't have fanservice or generic plots but I'm too lazy to look over the ocean of shit to find them.
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There's a lot of people on GAF who are knowledgeable about current anime (far more so than me) who can give recommendations of current shows if you're interested. But a few people earlier in this thread were complaining about a lack of sci-fi, so just off the top of my head, Space Battleship Yamato 2199 aired in 2013 and has been widely praised for being a well-told space opera story.

Labor said:
Is there actually anything good out right now that's not the usual?

This thread made me realize I have no idea what's actually available that's new or semi-recent.
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The results from the 2013 Anime of the Year poll will be posted tomorrow, probably. The Top 10 results usually have a bunch of mini-reviews from GAF members attached so you can browse through that thread (or the linked voting thread) and see if anything sparks your interest.
 
He's right. The whole creepy Moe/Waifu movement is one of the worst things that could happen to a medium. That shit needs to be relegated to the sidelines or in the underbelly where it belongs as opposed to having the industry revel in it.

Anime might have always been nerdy, but I remember when it used to offer mesmerizing sci-fi, amazing existential stories, and edge of your seat action as opposed to freaking Grade-school panty adventures bullshitery.
 
Branduil said:
Nah I was referring to an earlier post.
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I like K-ON, but I don't think there's any denying that it was sort of the beginning of a nightmare for people who aren't really fans of that slice of life/high school club-type show that maybe once in a while is relevant to the title.

Chet Rippo said:
Did we all forget Azumanga?
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As we know it now, I think K-ON! is a better representation. Azumanga is more like Nichijou imo. (though there are more 'waifus' in Azumanga)
 
Haly said:
Looking at source interview, I think people are extrapolating way too much from his words, but I guess even with the context this thread wouldn't be any better.

As far as I can tell, he's critiquing the way characters are drawn and designed and animated, not about... all this other stuff people are complaining about. Not that they aren't valid complaints but if you cited Miyazaki here as support for your tried arguments I would be obligated to slap you.
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He's absolutely right about human motion in animation too. Shame the thread wasn't about that instead. :(
 
zeopower6 said:
I like K-ON, but I don't think there's any denying that it was sort of the beginning of a nightmare for people who aren't really fans of that slice of life/high school club-type show that maybe once in a while is relevant to the title.

As we know it now, I think K-ON! is a better representation. Azumanga is more like Nichijou imo. (though there are more 'waifus' in Azumanga)
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Unless you're suggesting K-on is some kind anime Adam that committed Original Sin and propagated it to all later anime I don't see how you can hold the sins of later anime against it.
 
Labor said:
Is there actually anything good out right now that's not the usual?

This thread made me realize I have no idea what's actually available that's new or semi-recent.
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I have heard really good things about Inari, Konkon, Koi Iroha. But I haven't seen it yet.

Ippo is always awesome.

I've also heard good things about Samurai Flamenco but...I think there's a ton of fanservice in that as well.

Personally I'm watching Kill la Kill, Boat Waifus and Chuu2-2. You might actually like Chuu 2, It resonated with me.

But beyond that...like I said earlier, it's kind of a minefield.
 
QueenOfThorns said:
Yep. I'm sure there's decent stuff out there that doesn't have fanservice or generic plots but I'm too lazy to look over the ocean of shit to find them.
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It's not that large a task looking at a season chart and picking out what sounds interesting. Usually doesn't involve feces, well when i do it anyway.
 
Labor said:
I like humorous/gag anime, and more serious stuff that's well written.

No Grave of the Fireflies though. Once is hard enough.
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Like others have mentioned, you can go read the AOTY voting thread for various thoughts by a bunch of people. A short list I'd give for recent humorous anime would be:

Gintama (still going off-and-on, one of my favorites)
Gundam Build Fighters
Hana no Zundamaru
Hoozuki no Reitetsu
Jewelpet Kira Deco
Love Lab

and recent serious well-written anime:

Blue Exorcist: The Movie
Death Billiards
Eccentric Family
Flowers of Evil
Silver Spoon (also funny)
Space Battleship Yamato 2199
 
Jarmel said:
Looking back, it was over before it started.
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I think ANN singled out certain lines for clicks/comments.

And just bookmark this and browse for future/current releases.

http://anichart.net

It's not 100% current, though... I believe that you can pretty much tell what is 'typical' and what isn't more of the same just from the images+descriptions. I was interested in pupa (which was delayed until this season) but it's more of an incest!cannibal anime than I thought it would be...
 
wonzo said:
He's absolutely right about human motion in animation too. Shame the thread wasn't about that instead. :(
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I get what he means in principle, but i'm not sure i see it in effect.

Can someone provide visual evidence of this decline in alive and life-like animation through time? It seems to me like Ghibli's (and a couple of other's) stuff was always a stand out in quality.

However i've not followed anime in years, so i'm curious about what he means.
 
Labor said:
I like humorous/gag anime, and more serious stuff that's well written.

No Grave of the Fireflies though. Once is hard enough.
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If you want a humorous/gag anime, you can't go wrong with Gintama. It's one of the most highly rated series on myanimelist if it means anything.

More serious stuff, I'd list Fate/Zero (as I recommended twice already lol), Steins;Gate, Madoka, Kaiji, Psycho Pass.

Two other personal recommendations would be One Outs and Kuroko's Basketball. Both are sports animes which I've watched recently and both are excellent. Fortunately you don't even need to like sports to like these shows. One Outs is more realistic btw.
 
Caesnd said:
It is not a simple situation. That much is clear to me, at least.

If anything, I think Miyazaki is sad, not angry, over the fact that no one seems to want to prove him wrong. Go out of their way and show him that he is wrong. I bet he would love to see that. There are still good works being produced, no doubt about it, but it would be nice if someone took the edge out of this matter and actually confronted him, instead of just calling him an old man out of touch (pretty sure some of the comments in the original source read along those lines).

In the end, I just hope Miyazaki and his endeavours reach out to at least some aspiring artists, (there was this movie coming out soon I think that reminded me a lot of Ghibli by some smaller studio, but I forgot the name) because what he does is unique, as much as anything else that has been produced, and to see that be forgotten would be truly disheartening.
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Well not to be spiteful, but if people who don't watch anime constantly bring up his films, I don't think they'll be truly forgotten.

Easy_D said:
Not neccessarily the otaku, but the pandering towards them
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Well they're pandering to them because they're the only ones really buying anime. Granted it doesn't help that prices for DVDs/BDs are rather exorbent for what you actually get.
 
Hagi said:
It's not that large a task looking at a season chart and picking out what sounds interesting. Usually doesn't involve feces, well when i do it anyway.
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I look at the charts every now and then and most everything looks pretty typical. I did like Little Witch Academia though, if that counts.
 
KirbYayoi said:
Well they're pandering to them because they're the only ones really buying anime. Granted it doesn't help that prices for DVDs/BDs are rather exorbent for what you actually get.
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Japanese media prices are pretty crazy. I'm surprised that they still have the 1000yen singles and 3000yen albums... though the box sets that cost several hundred dollars are probably the most insanely priced.
 
Jarmel said:
The fetishization of the market is a separate argument than talking about the actual staff.
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Not really, since this fetishization is created by - and leads to - a certain set of people working in it.

But the problem is that none of it matters since the original article was twisted into clickbait by Anime News Network. Truly, the #1 anime news site on the web.

Jarmel said:
It's not a crashing industry, it's seemingly stabilized for the most part. Have we seen studios go bankrupt left and right? Now as to whether it's growing, it's hard to say.
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Most of its output is basically subsidized by publishers shilling books, manga, and the occasional porn game. It's inherently unhealthy.
 
wonzo said:
He's absolutely right about human motion in animation too. Shame the thread wasn't about that instead. :(
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Yeah, that's a more interesting discussion than whatever this is. If you look at recent trends in animation such as the web-gen movement, realism is definitely not on the agenda.
 
zeopower6 said:
Japanese media prices are pretty crazy. I'm surprised that they still have the 1000yen singles and 3000yen albums... though the box sets that cost several hundred dollars are probably the most insanely priced.
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I'm guessing it's probably because people are more willing to pay for goods at that price, whereas it's not the same case with America for example.

Hell, you can see Japanese tier price tags on some of the anime made available here. Aniplex being very notorious for the pricing.

Ironically, the barrier of entry is probably much lower than video games, if only because of legal streaming sites.
 
He probably saw an episode of JoJo and smashed his TV in disgust.
 
QueenOfThorns said:
I look at the charts every now and then and most everything looks pretty typical. I did like Little Witch Academia though, if that counts.
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Yeah there's only usually at most 3 shows a season that interest me, so i can see where your coming from. LWA was really fun and they are making a sequel so that's something to look out for.

If i had to recommend outside of the usual from last season it would be Eccentric Family. I think this is a show that goes against what Miyazaki says, fantastic series with interesting characters who aren't one note.
 
KirbYayoi said:
I'm guessing it's probably because people are more willing to pay for goods at that price, whereas it's not the same case with America for example.

Hell, you can see Japanese tier price tags on some of the anime made available here. Aniplex being very notorious for the pricing.

Ironically, the barrier of entry is probably much lower than video games, if only because of legal streaming sites.
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The prices are pretty reasonable for the non-import versions of Aniplex especially since they seem to manage to keep almost every bonus intact for the "US" release.
 
But if they did where will I get my harem animes where 50 super perfect girls are absolutely in love with a mediocre guy who isnt good at anything?

Trolling aside, I totally agree with him. Though I feel like the real fault is with how expensive anime series' cost to purchase in the first place. Wasnt there something similar about the music industry in Japan too?
 
JKLee said:
I still don't understand this logic. You admit that "down-to-earth" anime exist, but blame otaku for not liking it enough for it to be popular. Where do people like yourself factor in, in that case? If niche audiences show more support for niche shows, why are they to blame when non-niche audiences don't show support for non-niche shows?
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At this point, I don't know if a lot of them exist. Basically what I'm trying to say is finding good anime these days are like comparing blockbuster hits versus indie titles that appear on Netflix. You would never know they exist because they are never talked about and they actually end up being some really good movies. The saturation of all these fanservice anime are the reason why the quality is so hard to find. Are otaku somewhat to blame for this? Yes because they aren't as niche as they seem. For example, where I'm at, the biggest anime convention we have is called Anime Boston... The convention is literally almost dedicated to that crowd. I shouldn't use this as anecdotal evidence but it's part of the reasons. It sucks that some people are more wrapped up into the themes of the anime playing into there fantasies than watching the anime for its merit.

Soriku said:
I have no idea what animes your friends watch. They might be the ones watching the overly moe or tropey animes or ones frequently set in high school settings or whatever.

There's a ton of stuff that's not like that. Try watching Fate/Zero for one (would be the first anime I'd recommend to someone who's not into anime). Shame you don't want to bother though.

Also, on the subject of "realistic" characters. Not every character has to be realistic. I'd say the deeper a show gets, the more realistic characters should act, but there's nothing inherently bad about characters who aren't that realistic and there are a bunch of good "unrealistic" characters alongside the ones who would act like a real human.
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Here's the thing. Before you go one saying I wouldn't, I have watched every kind of anime that has ever been made even hentai however there are hits and misses in specific genres that I no longer crave for. I use to love a lot of action anime, or corruption with powers etc etc etc.. But now I'm just more realistic with my taste and know what I want. It's just I don't feel like a lot of anime these days cater to that need. I don't want an anime where it consists of someone having supernatural power, I don't like hero's who becomes strong overnight. I don't like anime where the main character is the name. I don't like overly perverted down right Sexiest anime that objectify women in ridiculous ways. I don't like supernatural beings like vampires, zombies or whatever not. I just like stories that mean something. If it has some action that is consistent with a great story that does take itself seriously, I can do that but I can't do all the BS. Tbh, the last good anime I watched was claymore. I didn't want to watch it either because it had everything that I hated in anime but the story, mixed with some great action and it end up having a okay Story that made me read the manga was something I was able to play with.
 
Dresden said:
Not really, since this fetishization is created by - and leads to - a certain set of people working in it.
[...]
Most of its output is basically subsidized by publishers shilling books, manga, and the occasional porn game. It's inherently unhealthy.
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Correct me if i'm wrong but that to me sounds like a very small and self-serving niche.

If the offer in the [anime] medium isn't more varied, the problem has to lie elsewhere.
The rest of the world clearly has a market for non pandering (or whatever we want to call it) animation, so i don't see why Japan can't have that while ignoring the rest of the offer leaving them to their niche.

It's a genuine question i have.
 
KirbYayoi said:
Well not to be spiteful, but if people who don't watch anime constantly bring up his films, I don't think they'll be truly forgotten.
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Well yes, but I'm talking about the people that are either working or looking to work with animation in Japan. What I would like to see, and I think most people would agree here, is stronger bond between generations. Right now, everything just seems so disconnected and it's a bit sad.
 
Haly said:
Looking at source interview, I think people are extrapolating way too much from his words, but I guess even with the context this thread wouldn't be any better.

As far as I can tell, he's critiquing the way characters are drawn and designed and animated, not about... all this other stuff people are complaining about. Not that they aren't valid complaints but if you cited Miyazaki here as support for your tried arguments I would be obligated to slap you.
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If this thread was limited to strictly talking about animation techniques it would be way shorter, as unfortunate as it is that is something worth talking about.
 
Nice to see the thread title change to its actual intent instead of the sensationalist one.

Probably a little too late for that but still.
 
KirbYayoi said:
Still rather high barrier for goods.
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True, but it isn't cheap to produce those extra items. Though they seem to have QC issues...

UrbanRats said:
Correct me if i'm wrong but that to me sounds like a very small and self-serving niche.

If the offer in the [anime] medium isn't more varied, the problem has to lie elsewhere.
The rest of the world clearly has a market for non pandering (or whatever we want to call it) animation, so i don't see why Japan can't have that while ignoring the rest of the offer leaving them to their niche.

It's a genuine question i have.
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I think it's because the rest of the world treats animation as a medium that's for children. :/
 
Femmeworth said:
If this thread was limited to strictly talking about animation techniques it would be way shorter, as unfortunate as it is that is something worth talking about.
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There is a link, since he's saying the misanthropic tendencies of the people in the industry prevent them from really observing others (and their movement), leading to a decline in quality.
 
Dresden said:
Not really, since this fetishization is created by - and leads to - a certain set of people working in it.

But the problem is that none of it matters since the original article was twisted into clickbait by Anime News Network. Truly, the #1 anime news site on the web.
Click to expand...

Anime News Network, the only anime news site with something to say
 
AyaisMUsikWhore said:
Here's the thing. Before you go one saying I wouldn't, I have watched every kind of anime that has ever been made even hentai however there are hits and misses in specific genres that I no longer crave for. I use to love a lot of action anime, or corruption with powers etc etc etc.. But now I'm just more realistic with my taste and know what I want. It's just I don't feel like a lot of anime these days cater to that need. I don't want an anime where it consists of someone having supernatural power, I don't like hero's who becomes strong overnight. I don't like anime where the main character is the name. I don't like overly perverted down right Sexiest anime that objectify women in ridiculous ways. I don't like supernatural beings like vampires, zombies or whatever not. I just like stories that mean something. If it has some action that is consistent with a great story that does take itself seriously, I can do that but I can't do all the BS. Tbh, the last good anime I watched was claymore. I didn't want to watch it either because it had everything that I hated in anime but the story, mixed with some great action and it end up having a okay Story that made me read the manga was something I was able to play with.
Click to expand...

So you don't like fanservice or (most) Shonen. OK.

Good animes to watch: Fate/Zero, Steins;Gate, Kaiji, Psycho Pass, HunterxHunter, Kids on the Slope, Madoka (ignore the art; it's a completely serious story), Gintama.
 
Caesnd said:
Well yes, but I'm talking about the people that are either working or looking to work with animation in Japan. What I would like to see, and I think most people would agree here, is stronger bond between generations. Right now, everything just seems so disconnected and it's a bit sad.
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Oh. Right. Well, the real shot is to somehow expand the audience, or at least change the general perspective of anime.... and Japanese products in general. Lord knows it went down in the shitter around 2005/6.

effingvic said:
Hey man as far as I know only one girl likes Naruto and hes pretty good at punching stuff and saving people so yeah man
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There's also Nisekoi
and no, Nisekoi isn't good.
 
Femmeworth said:
If this thread was limited to strictly talking about animation techniques it would be way shorter, as unfortunate as it is that is something worth talking about.
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It's not only about animation techniques though. It's more about inspiration and influence, and the effect they have on creativity.
 
AyaisMUsikWhore said:
At this point, I don't know if a lot of them exist. Basically what I'm trying to say is finding good anime these days are like comparing blockbuster hits versus indie titles that appear on Netflix. You would never know they exist because they are never talked about and they actually end up being some really good movies. The saturation of all these fanservice anime are the reason why the quality is so hard to find. Are otaku somewhat to blame for this? Yes because they aren't as niche as they seem. For example, where I'm at, the biggest anime convention we have is called Anime Boston... The convention is literally almost dedicated to that crowd. I shouldn't use this as anecdotal evidence but it's part of the reasons. It sucks that some people are more wrapped up into the themes of the anime playing into there fantasies than watching the anime for its merit.



Here's the thing. Before you go one saying I wouldn't, I have watched every kind of anime that has ever been made even hentai however there are hits and misses in specific genres that I no longer crave for. I use to love a lot of action anime, or corruption with powers etc etc etc.. But now I'm just more realistic with my taste and know what I want. It's just I don't feel like a lot of anime these days cater to that need. I don't want an anime where it consists of someone having supernatural power, I don't like hero's who becomes strong overnight. I don't like anime where the main character is the name. I don't like overly perverted down right Sexiest anime that objectify women in ridiculous ways. I don't like supernatural beings like vampires, zombies or whatever not. I just like stories that mean something. If it has some action that is consistent with a great story that does take itself seriously, I can do that but I can't do all the BS. Tbh, the last good anime I watched was claymore. I didn't want to watch it either because it had everything that I hated in anime but the story, mixed with some great action and it end up having a okay Story that made me read the manga was something I was able to play with.
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You need Legend of the Galactic Heroes in your life, hell it's more of an epic historical novel than it is an anime, there is really nothing else like it.
 
Soriku said:
So you don't like fanservice or (most) Shonen. OK.

Good animes to watch: Fate/Zero, Steins;Gate, Kaiji, Psycho Pass, HunterxHunter, Kids on the Slope, Madoka (ignore the art; it's a completely serious story), Gintama.
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Madoka is pretty overrated though. It's basically something like Evangelion but with a magical girl skin imo.
 
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