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Miyazaki: Japanese animators should go observe some real human beings

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Nailed it, I mean, the guy created fucking Chihiro out of some friends daughter he met at a party.He gets his inspiration from real people and thats why theres no uguu bullshit in his stuff.
 
JDSN said:
Nailed, I mean, the guy created fucking Chihiro out of some friends daughter he met at a party.He get his inspiration from real people and thats why theres no uguu bullshit in his stuff.
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Damn is that him ? He is a freaking genius. I loved that movie. Didn't know who he was before reaching last page.
 
Messofanego said:
Oh man.
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Man, at least the second I can sort of accept as a stylistic decision even if it's not one I care for. The first though... uhh, it's probably easier to pretend they're aliens or a fictional race than something that is supposed to be human. And they'd still look like shit.
 
wonzo said:
If you liked that then you should really give this thing a watch sometime.

e: also check out the stuff on this list
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VanillaCakeIsBurning said:
I believe that's due to budgetary and time based reasons. Since studios IIRC work on a deadline they have to work quickly and manage where the budget is going to go. So the important scenes are going to get the most attention if the budget allows where possible while non-vital scenes like say two characters talking at some random point in an episode is not going to get the same attention as a pivotal fight or drama scene.

I think sakuga means something different in Japan compared to how it's used here. But the way I like to interpret our version of it is something like "if we have time and money, this is what we can do".

Here are a few more.

Mix 18
3D Perspective stuff
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all dat animation :o
 
Eusis said:
Man, at least the second I can sort of accept as a stylistic decision even if it's not one I care for. The first though... uhh, it's probably easier to pretend they're aliens or a fictional race than something that is supposed to be human. And they'd still look like shit.
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The first one was probably due to laziness from Toei for Kanon 2002. At least KyoAni made a better one a few years later....

87OHeBB.jpg

Kanon 2002...
 
zeopower6 said:
The first one was probably due to laziness from Toei for Kanon 2002. At least KyoAni made a better one a few years later....

http://i.imgur.com/87OHeBB.jpg
Kanon 2002...
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Man, I remember someone being pretty big on Kanon back then. I don't think I'd really want to watch something that looked like that period.
olympia said:
I think any animator would benefit from this advice, really.
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Probably most anyone who wants to be a creative individual really. Working within a vacuum of sorts is how we get stuff like Rob Liefeld proportions.
 
FreddieQuell said:
jeeze, sorry. I wasn't trying to derail the thread or anything, but let me tell you. First thing I thought was that it sounded dumb as shit. Then I thought it probably means a lot after watching the movie and seeing the main character lose her husband and struggle to raise her children on her own. I also thought about how it could probably mean a lot more when you look at the skinchanging affliction as a metaphor. Metaphor of what exactly I don't know. Then I again thought of how stupid it sounded.
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It sounds fine in context - it is a metaphor, and the simplicity of the dialogue is appropriate to get the message across.
 
I tend to not say i'm an anime fan because I only like a very small amount of anime- most of it being several miyazaki films, Lain, a few IP's that Yoko Kanno does the music for and a handful of other films/series that I find more about telling a story or developing characters over irritating fanservice.

<3 Miyazaki.
 
Not sure if Miyazaki is fit to comment on current anime. His artstyle and methods hasn't changed since the 70's.
Japan makes alot of these niche children/family-friendly movies, but I dunno western interrest seems low.
 
Completely agree with Miyazaki here. I would extend it to include script-writing though. I've been trying to get back into anime and, even ignoring all the fanservice garbage that seems to plague 90% of shows, the scripts are so incredibly bad. No character ever says anything resembling what an actual human being might say, not to mention the incredibly OTT melodrama (this is excluding slice-of-life type shows which I haven't watched enough of to have an opinion on).

I try the big shows that people seem to love like Attack on Titan, Log Horizon, etc. and the dialogue and "drama" is so bad it makes it not worth it to stick around for the action scenes. The only show that has clicked for me recently is Gintama because it parodies all the shit I just mentioned.

I'm not saying all anime is like this, I know shows like Monster and Space Brothers exist. I guess what I'm asking for specifically is an action show with smart, non-hand holdy writing in the vein of Cowboy Bebop.
 
This is maybe why as I grew older I started seeking out more slice of life type shows/manga which remains my preference today although I enjoy some popular shoujo/shounen titles as well.
The last 4 series I actually watched from beginning to end: Bunny Drop, Kids on the Slope, Attack on Titan, Glass Mask. Yup.
Like many have said already, there's just a lot more to choose from each season in comparison to the past so the poor quality is now more obvious.
 
NaDannMaGoGo said:
Then again on /r/anime you mustn't voice a negative opinion on the shows anyways. I made a thread about "Summer Wars" (terrible Digimon-movie knock-off that's just bad all around).
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I don't like the film much either, but it's worth noting it's from the same director as the Digimon movie.
Watch his film 'Wolf Children' - it's much better.
 
So, Psycho Pass and From The New World come highly recommended? Cause from google images, the character designs are nothing to write home about and I get porn images with Shinsekai Yori with safesearch on. What the hell.

Anything relatable yet original like Flowers of Evil or Kids on the Slope, or heck even at least like Eden of East? Short form series as interesting as Time of Eve? Some of these slice of life animes sound like gimmick parodies. "Oh, but it's set in an agricultural school! Mahjong club! Hijinks ensue!"
 
Messofanego said:
So, Psycho Pass and From The New World come highly recommended? Cause from google images, the character designs are nothing to write home about and I get porn images with Shinsekai Yori with safesearch on. What the hell.

Anything relatable yet original like Flowers of Evil or Kids on the Slope, or heck even at least like Eden of East? Short form series as interesting as Time of Eve? Some of these slice of life animes sound like gimmick parodies. "Oh, but it's set in an agricultural school! Mahjong club! Hijinks ensue!"
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Psycho Pass was enjoyable, if you can stand the cutesy stuff enough to apreciate the story, setting and brutality. It's cyberpunk about an emotionally controlled society.
 
Messofanego said:
So, Psycho Pass and From The New World come highly recommended? Cause from google images, the character designs are nothing to write home about and I get porn images with Shinsekai Yori with safesearch on. What the hell.
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Psycho Pass is more akin to Ghost in the Shell than any other modern series by virtue of it being cyberpunk, a rare genre these days.

I liked it, but a lot of animegaf will tell you it isn't worth your time.
 
FreddieQuell said:
Well, I said I knew it would be meaningful in context. I thought it was funny out of context. Were you trying to say anything else?
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You said you thought maybe it's meaningful in context, and perhaps it's meant to be metaphorical, but you thought it sounded dumb. Since I have seen it, I confirmed that, yes, it is intended as a metaphor, and it fits in context.
Also, what the hell is your problem? You're being confrontational for no damn reason.
 
Krev said:
You said you thought maybe it's meaningful in context, and perhaps it's meant to be metaphorical, but you thought it sounded dumb. Since I have seen it, I confirmed that, yes, it is intended as a metaphor, and it fits in context.
Also, what the hell is your problem? You're being confrontational for no damn reason.
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Alright thanks, I'm glad you were here to confirm my thoughts.
 
his Hayao Miyazaki and his damn right, this otaku epidemic has long since rotted the anime industry to it's core.

It's no surprise why studio ghibli are the only ones making original anime movies that are taken seriously outside of japan, while the others have next to zero appeal outside japan.
 
What he says is valuable advice for any animator.

Some artists draw like they've never seen a woman in their life.

This isn't just a problem in Japan either.
 
Messofanego said:
So, Psycho Pass and From The New World come highly recommended? Cause from google images, the character designs are nothing to write home about and I get porn images with Shinsekai Yori with safesearch on. What the hell.

Anything relatable yet original like Flowers of Evil or Kids on the Slope, or heck even at least like Eden of East? Short form series as interesting as Time of Eve? Some of these slice of life animes sound like gimmick parodies. "Oh, but it's set in an agricultural school! Mahjong club! Hijinks ensue!"
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From the New World is a somewhat flawed but very thoughtful and sober series. Probably because it was based on an award winning sci fi novel, but the direction for the adaptation is mostly great too except in a few episodes where it isn't. It isn't really frivolous entertainment, it's in the vein of the best kind of sci fi where it takes a simple premise and extrapolates that to create a fascinating world with its own authentic moral dilemmas and tragedies. I would definitely recommend it.
 
Riffled said:
Not sure if Miyazaki is fit to comment on current anime. His artstyle and methods hasn't changed since the 70's.
Japan makes alot of these niche children/family-friendly movies, but I dunno western interrest seems low.
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What? Ghibli's movies are the only ones I see getting some attention in the west.
 
Tacitus_ said:
Psycho Pass was enjoyable, if you can stand the cutesy stuff enough to apreciate the story, setting and brutality. It's cyberpunk about an emotionally controlled society.
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cosmicblizzard said:
Psycho Pass is more akin to Ghost in the Shell than any other modern series by virtue of it being cyberpunk, a rare genre these days.

I liked it, but a lot of animegaf will tell you it isn't worth your time.
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umop_3pisdn said:
From the New World is a somewhat flawed but very thoughtful and sober series. Probably because it was based on an award winning sci fi novel, but the direction for the adaptation is mostly great too except in a few episodes where it isn't. It isn't really frivolous entertainment, it's in the vein of the best kind of sci fi where it takes a simple premise and extrapolates that to create a fascinating world with its own authentic moral dilemmas and tragedies. I would definitely recommend it.
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Thanks, great impressions. I usually am quite stubborn with how a show looks, I was only able to handle Nichijou's moe because it's fucking hilarious, so I'll give those a go.
 
I just wanted to say I found this thread to be very interesting to read. A looooot of good, interesting posts.

I laid in bed before going to sleep reading through the whole thread for like an hour last night. I don't often do that!

I agree with Miyazaki's comment. Not just about the whole Otaku-stranglehold (if you want to call it that) over anime, but that character design has gone in to the toilet in general, especially women characters. This has extended to videogames too. Someone posted Virtue's Last Reward as an example earlier the thread and that's a great example of a great game with good writing that is hurt by absolutely embarrassing female character design. It's always existed, I mean Faye in Cowboy Bebop is pretty damn racy, but it feels a lot like fetish bait now, and at least Faye had some pretty great character development to back it up.

As someone who grew up with a whole lot of anime, it sucks that very, very little of it appeals to me right now. And I don't think it's just because I got older, because I followed FullMetal Alchemist to the end just two years ago and quite liked it. I think it's the content. Great characters have been replaced with rigid archetypes and with "what the fans want to see" so we see a lot of pandering. Also pricing of anime in Japan has lead to this, as they're so insanely fucking expensive that yeah, of course only a mega fan would buy it. Wasn't the Bebop bluray like, $400 when it came out? No wonder the niche is now the majority.

I even find Space Dandy's humor a bit hard to get into with all the boobies talk. I'm going to keep giving it a shot because I love the director but my first impressions were mixed.

Anyway, keep in mind I'm talking in generalities. I'm sure there's examples that break the trends of what I'm talking about but I'm talking in a broad sense here. Anyway, I think I'll give Attack on Titan a shot soon because people are raving about it. Hope I like it. Any other recommendations are welcome.
 
mullet2000 said:
I just wanted to say I found this thread to be very interesting to read. A looooot of good, interesting posts.

I laid in bed before going to sleep reading through the whole thread for like an hour last night. I don't often do that!

I agree with Miyazaki's comment. Not just about the whole Otaku-stranglehold (if you want to call it that) over anime, but that character design has gone in to the toilet in general, especially women characters. This has extended to videogames too. Someone posted Virtue's Last Reward as an example earlier the thread and that's a great example of a great game with good writing that is hurt by absolutely embarrassing female character design. It's always existed, I mean Faye in Cowboy Bebop is pretty damn racy, but it feels a lot like fetish bait now, and at least Faye had some pretty great character development to back it up.

As someone who grew up with a whole lot of anime, it sucks that very, very little of it appeals to me right now. And I don't think it's just because I got older, because I followed FullMetal Alchemist to the end just two years ago and quite liked it. I think it's the content. Great characters have been replaced with rigid archetypes and with "what the fans want to see" so we see a lot of pandering. Also pricing of anime in Japan has lead to this, as they're so insanely fucking expensive that yeah, of course only a mega fan would buy it. Wasn't the Bebop bluray like, $400 when it came out? No wonder the niche is now the majority.

I even find Space Dandy's humor a bit hard to get into with all the boobies talk. I'm going to keep giving it a shot because I love the director but my first impressions were mixed.

Anyway, keep in mind I'm talking in generalities. I'm sure there's examples that break the trends of what I'm talking about but I'm talking in a broad sense here. Anyway, I think I'll give Attack on Titan a shot soon because people are raving about it. Hope I like it. Any other recommendations are welcome.
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Well as long as you give a criteria for what you would be willing to watch, I'll attempt to fill out something.
 
Are people really content to make coarse and unrefined value judgments on what "type of person" one needs to be to be good at making animated fictional works, as if that's the most important or even remotely close to the most important element involved?

Is it so hard to attribute unsavory trends in anime and subpar works to lack of skill, competency, and resources or perhaps unfavorable circumstances and not to "laziness", narrowmindedness, or other such useless character judgments?
 
Divvy said:
the fact that these artists and story writers don't spend time with other humans and their work suffers for it. They emulate each other's shows that they like and as a result, anime is becoming a dwindling set of cliches rather than anything portraying what actual humans are like.
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ivysaur12 said:
Because of anime's limited appeal. Because these shows are full of cliches and stereotypes that exist within Otaku culture that limit the appeal. Because their creators don't understand human interaction because they are Otaku's themselves. Which is Miyazaki's point.

Without an understanding an emulation of human interaction and characters, anime will be stuck in the cliched rut that Miyazaki believes it is in. And, judging by most in this thread, they would agree.
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Theses posters mentioned it best,This is one of the main factor why anime stories are creatively dead,it's made by otaku/people that look towards/emulated other anime works that where original emulating another animes which who knows how far the cycle goes.

While the rest are just manufactured to sell to otakus by being a collection of things(tropes,fan service,character archetypes,cliches) that appeal to otaku.
 
Excellent comments by Miyazaki.

That said, he is comparing two very different genres. Studio Ghibli produces audio-visual works of art that touch on universal themes such as nature, feminism / female maturity, etc., while he is critiquing a genre that generally consists of serial escapist garbage that caters almost exclusively to teenage boys without girlfriends -- and all those who share this demographic's mental and sexual maturity.

Most anime is Kardashian/Duck Dynasty-level stupid. Every country has its junk.
 
Yamauchi said:
Excellent comments by Miyazaki.

That said, he is comparing two very different genres. Studio Ghibli produces audio-visual works of art that touch on universal themes such as nature, feminism / female maturity, etc., while he is critiquing a genre that generally consists of serial escapist garbage that caters almost exclusively to teenage boys without girlfriends -- and all those who share this demographic's mental and sexual maturity.

Most anime is Kardashian/Duck Dynasty-level stupid. Every country has its junk.
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Anime is a medium, not a genre. You'd find those same themes in TV anime if you look.

Also, it's not nice to be calling out everyone that does happen to enjoy those shows :/
 
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