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[StMeph]

FFXI is the correct answer.

XIV is a theme park MMO.

 

[Demoskinos]

Amen. I can't help but sound like an old man anytime I run a Turn 8 or ESPECIALLY Turn 9 Unsync'd party

The struggle.....they will never know it.

....they'll never know.

o_o

My group managed to squeak in our T9 clear just hours before maint that was adding echo. That was a hell of a night.

 

[iammeiam]

I highly doubt many people just starting out are going to be willing to throw down 100+ dollars just to get to stormblood.

Story skips are an insanely good deal for anyone who doesn't care about the MSQ, but does care about getting the most of their time (well, as compared to the current 'do this stuff or just quit and waste what you spent on the game.) You can spend $25 on a story skip, still level the old way, and literally save yourself days of playtime not having to do fetch quests. FFXIV's dirty little unmentionable is that the MSQ does actively drive people away--first with the stupid pre-Titan sequence, and later with ARR's heavily padded postgame. People don't quit because leveling is slow, they quit because the game throws in a bunch of fetch quests that even fans of the story will occasionally admit to finding unappealing.

Like, they've already released them in other regions. They're coming to NA/EU/JP because there's a demand for them, and they've explicitly noted that the demand is largely from players with MMO experience.

 

[kiuo]

Also, lastly, a lot of what you described is actually changing for Stormblood. The developers had a six hour livestream, where they went over all the changes to the game. The only thing that isn't getting changed is the GCD.

I had a lot of problems with ffxiv which caused me to quit after heavenwards, but heard they are doing major reworkings on the game. Just wanted to know if they're fixing close combat as it was one of my main problems with the game. Like when the enemy is moving then you weren't able to complete your atk animation which meant that the atk doesn't register. It annoyed me to no end as I mained a ninja who had to get up close to fight.

Also, are they doing anything to fix pvp? I found it pretty unbalanced with all the CC's like sleep and limit breaks like meteor (when used after a mass sleep) overpowering. Not to mention the boring PvP modes, that I last remembered being only groupvsgroupvsgroup and no 3v3 or 1v1, which caused a long 30min-1hr+ wait time just to find enough people to play with.

I ask this because doing pve contents all the time tired me out, and having to sit and wait on others just to do things like raids and dungeons got to me as well. I would find myself just sitting in town for hours doing nothing but waiting on people. PvP was my defacto to killing time waiting but unfortunately it was pretty badly implemented here.

 

[Sophia]

I had a lot of problems with ffxiv, but heard they are doing major reworkings on the game. Just wanted to know if they're fixing close combat as it was one of my main problems with the game. Like when the enemy is moving then you weren't able to complete your atk animation which meant that the atk doesn't register. It annoyed me to no end as I mained a ninja who had to get up close to fight.

Also, are they doing anything to fix pvp? I found it pretty unbalanced with all the CC's like sleep and limit breaks like meteor (when used after a mass sleep) overpowering. Not to mention the boring PvP modes, that I last remembered being only groupvsgroupvsgroup and no 3v3 or 1v1, which caused a long 30min-1hr+ wait time just to find enough people to play with.

I ask this because doing pve contents all the time tired me out, and having to sit and wait on others just to do things like raids and dungeons got to me as well. I would find myself just sitting in town for hours doing nothing but waiting on people. PvP was my defacto to killing time waiting but unfortunately it was pretty badly implemented here.

The first issue doesn't appear to be changing, sorry.

PvP however, is getting a complete revamp. You'll be able to join it as son as you get a job (level 30), and almost every ability is being re-tuned when in a PvP area. Less crowd control, bigger focus on ability choices, streamlined combos, hotbars that are unique to PvP, etc. It looks and sounds fantastic.

They dedicated an entire hour of the livestream to it. It was pretty great.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

First post wins

 

[FinaruDensetsu]

FF14

 

[Killthee]

I had a lot of problems with ffxiv, but heard they are doing major reworkings on the game. Just wanted to know if they're fixing close combat as it was one of my main problems with the game. Like when the enemy is moving then you weren't able to complete your atk animation which meant that the atk doesn't register. It annoyed me to no end as I mained a ninja who had to get up close to fight.

Also, are they doing anything to fix pvp? I found it pretty unbalanced with all the CC's like sleep and limit breaks like meteor (when used after a mass sleep) overpowering. Not to mention the boring PvP modes, that I last remembered being only groupvsgroupvsgroup and no 3v3 or 1v1, which caused a long 30min-1hr+ wait time just to find enough people to play with.

I ask this because doing pve contents all the time tired me out, and having to sit and wait on others just to do things like raids and dungeons got to me as well. I would find myself just sitting in town for hours doing nothing but waiting on people. PvP was my defacto to killing time waiting but unfortunately it was pretty badly implemented here.

They made a change a few patches ago where you no longer have to face a target to hit them so when they move now you not facing them directly doesn't cause you to miss.

They're scrapping the current pvp and starting from scratch. PvE moves are no longer usable in pvp, new pvp moves, combos using one button, and revamping stuns and sleep in pvp. They've had 4v4 ranked and 8v8 unranked for over a year now so queue times aren't a big deal anymore during prime time and they've removed the gc restrictions for 72 man so wait times for that are also quicker. There's also a 1v1 dueling mode but you have to zone into the wolves den pier to do it so I'm not sure how popular it is.

 

[kiuo]

The first issue doesn't appear to be changing, sorry.

PvP however, is getting a complete revamp. You'll be able to join it as son as you get a job (level 30), and almost every ability is being re-tuned when in a PvP area. Less crowd control, bigger focus on ability choices, streamlined combos, hotbars that are unique to PvP, etc. It looks and sounds fantastic.

They dedicated an entire hour of the livestream to it. It was pretty great.

Hmmm I guess I can overlook the close combat if they're finally going to fix PvP now. Thanks for the info! I'll look into it some more and see if what's changing is enough to bring me back

They made a change a few patches ago where you no longer have to face a target to hit them so when they move now you not facing them directly doesn't cause you to miss.

They're scrapping the current pvp and starting from scratch. PvE moves are no longer usable in pvp, new pvp moves, combos using one button, and revamping stuns and sleep in pvp. They've had 4v4 ranked and 8v8 unranked for over a year now so queue times aren't a big deal anymore during prime time and they've removed the gc restrictions for 72 man so wait times for that are also quicker. There's also a 1v1 dueling mode but you have to zone into the wolves den pier to do it so I'm not sure how popular it is.

Oh nice! Those sound pretty good. I stopped after heavenwards came out so I had no idea there were more PvP modes out. I'm not very skilled but just the idea of being able to fight live players, sounds more enjoyable than constantly having to fight NPCs all the time. And if what you said about no longer having to face the opponent to atk is true then that's one less complaint I have for close combat

 

[Stormhammer]

The first issue doesn't appear to be changing, sorry.

PvP however, is getting a complete revamp. You'll be able to join it as son as you get a job (level 30), and almost every ability is being re-tuned when in a PvP area. Less crowd control, bigger focus on ability choices, streamlined combos, hotbars that are unique to PvP, etc. It looks and sounds fantastic.

They dedicated an entire hour of the livestream to it. It was pretty great.

if I'm reading this correctly, you're saying PvP will have it's own dedicated moveset? No more just adding moves on top of our PvE abilities?

 

[Demoskinos]

Story skips are an insanely good deal for anyone who doesn't care about the MSQ, but does care about getting the most of their time (well, as compared to the current 'do this stuff or just quit and waste what you spent on the game.) You can spend $25 on a story skip, still level the old way, and literally save yourself days of playtime not having to do fetch quests. FFXIV's dirty little unmentionable is that the MSQ does actively drive people away--first with the stupid pre-Titan sequence, and later with ARR's heavily padded postgame. People don't quit because leveling is slow, they quit because the game throws in a bunch of fetch quests that even fans of the story will occasionally admit to finding unappealing.

Like, they've already released them in other regions. They're coming to NA/EU/JP because there's a demand for them, and they've explicitly noted that the demand is largely from players with MMO experience.

I think they gain more than they lose especially with the casual audience with the story stuff. I know a lot of people who just log on only for content cycles get the new story beats and then ghost until the next bit of story drops.

And sure if someone wants to pay for the pots go ahead but you're just going to have to do all the storm blood story to get to its end game anyways. I can see the pots being more attractive to people wanting to get alts up to speed than for anyone jumping in. Because if you don't care for the story heavy narrative focus of FFXIV that's just constantly going to be a problem you have to deal with to get to the stuff you want to do.

if I'm reading this correctly, you're saying PvP will have it's own dedicated moveset? No more just adding moves on top of our PvE abilities?

Correct. There are massive overhauls coming to both the battle systems for PvP and PvE in the 4.0 patch.

 

[GuitarGuruu]

You're gonna get a lot of FFXIV replies. With the xpac coming in a few weeks it's going to be a very popular game.

 

[iammeiam]

I think they gain more than they lose especially with the casual audience with the story stuff. I know a lot of people who just log on only for content cycles get the new story beats and then ghost until the next bit of story drops.

That really has nothing to do with the current discussion, though. The question isn't should they stop having a story, but does mandating the story cost them potential players? And it does. They could easily serve both groups by just making the ARR and HW MSQ's optional as they'd originally indicated, but instead they're going for our wallets. And as somebody who has actively not cared about the story over years of playing, $25 is an incredible bargain for hours saved.

Because if you don't care for the story heavy narrative focus of FFXIV that's just constantly going to be a problem you have to deal with to get to the stuff you want to do.

There's a difference between skipping some cutscenes on patch day every three months to get to the new content to run with people and spending a week skipping cutscenes to unlock a bunch of dungeons you're going to do once and forget because everyone is off doing new, cooler things that is pretty huge. The actual upkeep isn't bad--especially since HW realized that they didn't need to cram "find the orphans" or "deliver uniforms" in every patch to pad length.

 

[Ragingnight]

The pve comments are wierd; atleast at end game.

The slowest dps is technically drg, but their rotation is pretty tight and they have a ton of OGCD still and you have to double weave to optimize dps.

The real issue with FFXIV pve is server ticks (dots, dmg, heals), and how the game snapshots dmg inconsistently (a10s steam roller vs a10s charges). But you can learn to just get used to those.

End game is pretty fun, its not super difficult and things are often puggable to a certain extent.

I main a bard in raid dps and I'm always mashing buttons, thinking ahead and planning out things on the fly (but to be fair I guess bards are one of the hardest classes to optimize for).

edit

I guess I have to also mention that I have experience as a HC raider in WoW TBC; got to Sunwell Muru prenerf, and quitting before Lich King in ICC. So I don't have up to date WoW experience but I feel the experience is very similar overall with FFXIV being more friendly to casuals/midcore

 

[MechaX]

Yea, I still have super fond memories of Qarn in launch month when everyone was screaming about the bees and the pedestals. Parties had to be so perceptive and aware for both leading to endless bouts of wipes and eventual satisfaction upon success.

Meanwhile the playerbase was SCREAMING for Yoshi-P to nerf it...and so they did. And that dungeon became dull and forgettable. My heart sunk.

Yeah, a lot of stuff like that happened throughout 2.xx non-Coil stuff. Bees with Demon Wall? Just remove them entirely. Pharos Sirus came out and is personally one of my favorite dungeons, but the enemies hit like trucks and too many times you'll get tanks that drop because they don't want to deal with it. Eventually that gets nerfed too.

I understand why they have to nerf stuff like that (they don't have the benefit that WoW does in not only being around for such a long time, but has such a pedigree behind it where people are going to sub or resub no matter what; after 1.0, XIV needs to find ways to keep it's player base no matter what). I just hope that they find a balance between "faceroll" and "very much overtuned." Like, I liked Steps of Faith and the Nidhogg trial, but sweet Jesus, some of those PUGs.

I personally think that Nidhogg needs to be the "minimum competence" trial.

 

[xealo]

WoW has had the most challenging and elaborate raids in the genre for a long time bar maybe ff11, and that still holds up. Simply depends on what your looking for with pve group content.

 

[CHC]

Honestly NeoGAF is a huge Final Fantasy XIV bubble and, while it's not a bad game, people are way overselling it here.

WoW is still the de facto MMO to play - the raids and dungeons are extremely diverse, polished, fun, and versatile in terms of difficulty settings, plus there is an almost infinite amount of side content and older things to explore for a new player, from PVP to legacy raids to pet battles to fishing, etc, etc. It's weird to suggest that someone start playing WoW right now, in this day and age, but Legion has been a great expansion and despite what anyone says, the game is still going strong.

Like I mentioned, FFXIV isn't bad or anything, it's just a much smaller and more limited game compared to WoW.

 

[Varna]

No decent PVE content is the reason I don't bother with MMORPGs these days. I'm so sick and tired of these mind numbing dungeons you have to run dozens of times just to afford gear to participate in the next series of mind numbing dungeons.

I'm waiting for the day where an MMO is built from the ground to actually feel reaching the level cap is an actual achievement that requires teamwork and cooperation.

Basically.... I'm putting all my money on Pantheon.

Oh yeah, FFXIV is boring as well. I can't help comparing it to XI and it just fails so incredibly hard.

 

[Guess Who]

Honestly NeoGAF is a huge Final Fantasy XIV bubble and, while it's not a bad game, people are way overselling it here.

WoW is still the de facto MMO to play - the raids and dungeons are extremely diverse, polished, fun, and versatile in terms of difficulty settings, plus there is an almost infinite amount of side content and older things to explore for a new player, from PVP to legacy raids to pet battles to fishing, etc, etc. It's weird to suggest that someone start playing WoW right now, in this day and age, but Legion has been a great expansion and despite what anyone says, the game is still going strong.

Like I mentioned, FFXIV isn't bad or anything, it's just a much smaller and more limited game compared to WoW.

I think people don't bother saying WoW in these kinds of threads because people assume someone asking for an MMO to get into has, more likely than not, already played WoW.

 

[TheYanger]

I think people don't bother saying WoW in these kinds of threads because people assume someone asking for an MMO to get into has, more likely than not, already played WoW.

Yet if you played wow like, 10 years ago, you might as well have played FF14, and not played wow. If you get what I'm saying. These games are ever changing. If someone specifically asks for challenging pve content with groups of players, I assume they're not playing wow right now and what you'd do right now isn't really relevant to what you may or may not have done 5-6+ years ago.

 

[darkwing]

Final Fantasy XIV

 

[GuitarGuruu]

Honestly NeoGAF is a huge Final Fantasy XIV bubble and, while it's not a bad game, people are way overselling it here.

WoW is still the de facto MMO to play - the raids and dungeons are extremely diverse, polished, fun, and versatile in terms of difficulty settings, plus there is an almost infinite amount of side content and older things to explore for a new player, from PVP to legacy raids to pet battles to fishing, etc, etc. It's weird to suggest that someone start playing WoW right now, in this day and age, but Legion has been a great expansion and despite what anyone says, the game is still going strong.

Like I mentioned, FFXIV isn't bad or anything, it's just a much smaller and more limited game compared to WoW.

While I agree with some of your points, a lot of that is subjective. I saw a few posts talk about how FFXIV utilizes a level sync function which gives you reason to go back and do old content. What purpose does Wow have besides mount drops or transmog? I'll give you the difficulty, WoW is unparalleled when it comes to difficulty settings especially in dungeons. XIV also has a plethora of side content available much like the small functions you listed for wow. Gold Saucer, PVP, gathering and crafting classes, etc. Some people just prefer XIV for a more pretty, and polished experience. Like you said though they both are great.

 

[Mendrox]

Everyone saying FFXIV but I just found the gear way too boring to keep me interested at end game. It's just +stats with nothing really interesting on it, unless that changed along the way.

It's fantastic until you get onto the gear treadmill though. I might check it out again when the expansion launches for the story content.

Which MMORPG is different in that regard? Which one is not just getting better gear at endgame? I've played too many in my life that I really dont know which one is different in that regard. Endgame is always a grind (housing, raiding, equipment)

Edit: Also OP FFXIV, it has some different content for endgame which helps the game like the Gold Saucer just for having fun for example.

Edit 2: Reminds me that I have a PS4 Code for FFXIV + Heavensward for the US. If you are interested OP, PM me.

 

[Stormhammer]

Which MMORPG is different in that regard? Which one is not just getting better gear at endgame? I've played too many in my life that I really dont know which one is different in that regard. Endgame is always a grind (housing, raiding, equipment)

Edit: Also OP FFXIV, it has some different content for endgame which helps the game like the Gold Saucer just for having fun for example.

Edit 2: Reminds me that I have a PS4 Code for FFXIV + Heavensward for the US. If you are interested OP, PM me.

In regards to gear, I guess FFXI was different in that while yes there was great gear to be had at end game, you could still get low level gear that remained viable at end game to an extent. Some of the gear would also have different effects besides just stat boosts.

 

[TheContact]

Dark age of Camelot

 

[Ferr986]

I'm starting to think XIV is the first MMO for most people on GAF. It doesn't bring anything to the table, and it's not even like mechanics are sound anyway. GCD is a mess, cross class skills are a poor ass substitute for subjobs and don't even get me started on the PvP LOL

This is what is it for a big chunk of people, yeah-

Which MMORPG is different in that regard? Which one is not just getting better gear at endgame? I've played too many in my life that I really dont know which one is different in that regard. Endgame is always a grind (housing, raiding, equipment)

Edit: Also OP FFXIV, it has some different content for endgame which helps the game like the Gold Saucer just for having fun for example.

Edit 2: Reminds me that I have a PS4 Code for FFXIV + Heavensward for the US. If you are interested OP, PM me.

FFXI for example, had different endgame gears that it was about boosting random job skills or stats more than just bigger numbers of the usual stats. to the point that you would have different gear depending on what were you facing. This also made old gear not obsolete just in the next patch.

 

[luulubuu]

World of Warcraft

6 expansions, 5 regions to explore, tons of quests for solo or parties, hundreds of dungeons and raids and I don't know man, I have been playing the game nonstop for years and I still find stuff

I think people don't bother saying WoW in these kinds of threads because people assume someone asking for an MMO to get into has, more likely than not, already played WoW.

I think it's more because FF14 is the shiny new thing to try and love, something will replace it after STORMBLOOD gets colder. Plus you can play FF14 on console

 

[RedSparrows]

If only Wildstar had been a hit. I loved the group PvE in that. So so so good.

 

[E_Darkness]

think it's more because FF14 is the shiny new thing to try and love, something will replace it after STORMBLOOD gets colder. Plus you can play FF14 on console

Perhaps FFXIV 5.0.

 

[TheYanger]

If only Wildstar had been a hit. I loved the group PvE in that. So so so good.

Wildstar dungeons were so fucking awesome. The raids were good besides the fact that they were busted as fuck and then everyone quit.

Huge shame, that game.

 

[pillowtalk]

I agree with every opinion here. Even the one that suggested to try a moba.

 

[Arkeband]

FF14 is still very clunky and Stormblood won't have much to do until later on if it's anything like Heavensward. The best PVE MMO was WotLK and nothing's topped it since.