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[NullPointer]

no,it was not

Yes, it really was. But you had to find the fun in toying with the crowd and emote systems. Its not for everybody, sure, but I loved it. It had something a lot of games don't: heart.

 

[StudioTan]

Did you not play any fable games? Because it is.

I don't recall being able to run from one side of the world to the other. I think of a game like Oblivion as open world, I remember Fable 2 as having loading screens and a lot of artificial barriers. It's been a while since I played Fable 2 though.

 

[NullPointer]

I don't recall being able to run from one side of the world to the other. I think of a game like Oblivion as open world, I remember Fable 2 as having loading screens and a lot of artificial barriers. It's been a while since I played Fable 2 though.

Yeah, its no GTA or Red Dead, but its more open than an Arkham Asylum. Its still gated via the main storyline, but you can freely travel between zones and actually have reason to revisit areas or explore the nooks and crannies.

 

[StudioTan]

Yeah, its no GTA or Red Dead, but its more open than an Arkham Asylum. Its still gated via the main storyline, but you can freely travel between zones and actually have reason to revisit areas or explore the nooks and crannies.

Eh, sounds like semantics. I don't consider that open world personally. In an open world game if I can see, I can visit it. Being able to go back and forth freely between zones just means it's non-linear, not completely open.

Anyway, I don't see how it means you couldn't travel around such a world controlling a horse and cart. The Kinect mechanics are quite simple in that regard.

 

[NullPointer]

Eh, sounds like semantics. I don't consider that open world personally. In an open world game if I can see, I can visit it. Being able to go back and forth freely between zones just means it's non-linear, not completely open.

Anyway, I don't see how it means you couldn't travel around such a world controlling a horse and cart. The Kinect mechanics are quite simple in that regard.

Fair enough. Its non-linear and semi-open.

 

[mavs]

Yes, it really was. But you had to find the fun in toying with the crowd and emote systems. Its not for everybody, sure, but I loved it. It had something a lot of games don't: heart.

Fable 2 was the most soulless cash grab of a game that I have ever played. It had a beginning, a middle and an end, with as little in between as possible to still qualify as a game. Definitely my most regrettable purchase in recent memory.

 

[remnant]

Yes, it really was. But you had to find the fun in toying with the crowd and emote systems. Its not for everybody, sure, but I loved it. It had something a lot of games don't: heart.

Lol wow. Nothing says heart like farting into someone's face.

The problem with Peter is MS have tried to make him into their miyamoto or something based on successes from 15 years ago. He talks big game, but rarely delivers. As a result to a new generation of gamers he is more of a MS marketing puppet than a respected visionary.

 

[NullPointer]

Lol wow. Nothing says heart like farting into someone's face.

Or say, wooing a fair maiden, getting married and making your newborn laugh? Playing a lute for the townsfolk, dancing and getting drunk after saving a town? Buying up properties juat to lower the rents and improve conditions for an entire town?

I dont remember being able to do those things in Oblivion or many other games for that matter. You could actually play the role of a hero in Fable 2. I'll say it again, its not going to be everybody's cup of tea, but it had heart.

 

[Alexios]

First off, that's not a whiteboard - Molyneux just decided to start writing on the wall.

Second, from listening to the Bombcast, it sounds like he was pressuring journalists to agree with him and sign the wall. Not all that were asked did however.

Lol. What a tool.

 

[drkOne]

That describes most games.

What games are you playing?

 

[Alexios]

What games are you playing?

On rails games, obviously.

 

[fernoca]

Or say, wooing a fair maiden, getting married and making your newborn laugh? Playing a lute for the townsfolk, dancing and getting drunk after saving a town? Buying up properties juat to lower the rents and improve conditions for an entire town?

I dont remember being able to do those things in Oblivion or many other games for that matter. You could actually play the role of a hero in Fable 2. I'll say it again, its not going to be everybody's cup of tea, but it had heart.

Yep.
I love Fable (all of them), and I admit that is not a game for everyone...and even one that can be improved (a lot). But it' still fun and charming and even has many options that other "bigger/more polished open-world games" haven't even touched...yet.

In any case, as I posted in the other thread..the Gamespot video was really nice, so can't wait.

 

[edgefusion]

Having Dimitri 'play' it though was definitely not a mistake. That dude was BUFF! Hope we get to see more of him.

 

[speedpop]

The man has been a joke since he left Bullfrog.

 

[elrechazado]

I don't recall being able to run from one side of the world to the other. I think of a game like Oblivion as open world, I remember Fable 2 as having loading screens and a lot of artificial barriers. It's been a while since I played Fable 2 though.

I've never heard of such an arbitrary definition of an open world game, but ok. You might have just said "it's not like oblivion so I don't like it" instead.

 

[StudioTan]

I've never heard of such an arbitrary definition of an open world game, but ok. You might have just said "it's not like oblivion so I don't like it" instead.

What? I liked Fable 2 a lot. I just don't consider it open world in the vein of Oblivion, RDR, Fallout etc. That's my own definition though, I don't think I've ever read a "standard" definition of what open RPGs are.

Looking around I found this article - http://www.gamersnexus.net/features/gg/479-level-design-creating-an-open-world-p1-framework - which defines it as:

- Freedom of movement on all axes within a vast, or seemingly vast, world.
- The option to abandon primary objectives and pursue other tasks (maybe even player-created).
- A definitive additive property possessed by the player, such as the function to claim 'houses' (mechanically permitted or not), create environs, destroy denizens of towns (even the good guys), hiring or recruiting NPCs, or other similar leadership skills.

So Fable seems to fail on point 1, adheres somewhat to point 2 and passes point 3. So I guess I could be considered open world yet isn't truly.

FWIW the wiki defines it as an "action RPG". Anyway, it's not really important to the discussion so we'll leave it at that.

 

[Gaspode_T]

Wow, being able to buy almost every building and change rent on them individually, marry multiple women and kill them at random, run jobs and random bandit encounters...and it's somehow less of an open world game than RDR...ummm...okay, sorry but I have to disagree as well. Fable 2 even earns gold for you when the game is off.

Many people hate on Molyneux blindly but Fable series was made by many different people, design was probably influenced a lot by this guy: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,77269/

Maybe for Japanese games all decisions funnel through a single person, but it doesn't work that way in Western studios.

 

[psykomyko]

Fable 2 was the most soulless cash grab of a game that I have ever played. It had a beginning, a middle and an end, with as little in between as possible to still qualify as a game. Definitely my most regrettable purchase in recent memory.

Agreed completely. Loved the first one, so I was in complete hype mode for the second. Most disappointing game ever for me.

 

[Huff]

Many people hate on Molyneux blindly but Fable series was made by many different people, design was probably influenced a lot by this guy: http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,77269/

That's what happens when you're the face of the company. Get all the credit and take all the criticism/hate

 

[Orayn]

Just gotta drop a Tycho/Jerry quote I like for the purpose of playing Molyneux's advocate.

The term "On Rails" is typically used a pejorative, often produced with a sneer and accompanied by a snort of derision. This is all according to some Gamer Law whose origin isn't clear to me. I think it is because the human spirit yearns for freedom, and they feel as though the rails amount to a kind of "Man" who is "coming down" on "them." All games are on rails, and these rails are of varying thickness and ornamentation. Characters that never change. Environments that shunt players. Severely constrained interactivity. Punitive gameplay mechanics. All of these things are acceptable. But when you restrain certain classes of player movement, oh ho, then the game is on rails.

While I have nothing but doubt and skepticism for Fable: The Journey, "It's on rails!" is not a particularly good argument for why it's a bad game. I'd Molyneux's track record of screwing up decent ideas, coupled with Kinect's clumsiness and imprecision.

 

[Huff]

While I have nothing but doubt and skepticism for Fable: The Journey, "It's on rails!" is not a particularly good argument for why it's a bad game. I'd Molyneux's track record of screwing up decent ideas, coupled with Kinect's clumsiness and imprecision.

I agree that "It's on rails!" is not a good argument that it's a bad game. Watching the E3 demo is really all you need for that argument.

This game, if on rails, is an argument for kinect being limited and unable to put out multiple game types.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

Also this:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-03-16-molyneux-sorry-if-ive-over-promised

hahahahahaha, blunt as a spoon he is

And yeah, this is typical Molyneux spin to save face. I thought by now it would be a standard enough practice that you don't take anything he claims seriously anymore? Lest we forget Milo and the chimaerical bounty of seamless image detection and integration, perfect voice recognition, and turing-compliant AI.

To be fair though there really isn't any foolproof way to navigate a first person game using Kinect alone without using rails. It just isn't possible without that laughably wonky setup that GAF universally ridiculed for Ghost Recon at the conference. Kinect is an interesting enough product, but is a lot more limited than what is claimed.

 

[Ether_Snake]

I bet it is on-rails, lol. But in HIS mind, it's not, probably because you can rotate the camera or whatever.

 

[Plywood]

He will claim that free movement is a feature of the game only for it to be "scrapped".

 

[Scalemail Ted]

If it was more like a dungeon crawl... Do you think that would work as an on rails game. Dungeons are normally coridors anyway filled with monsters, traps, and puzzles?

 

[milkyjay20]

LMFAO

he really is just a straight liar, and not in a normal game developer way. he's actually admitted to lying just for the hell of it. i've met people like this, lying just for the sake of it. i know a guy in his 50s who said he knew the 20-something weather girls when they were kids. it's less about corruption and more like a mental disease with molyneux.

 

[StudioTan]

I bet it is on-rails, lol. But in HIS mind, it's not, probably because you can rotate the camera or whatever.

No, you use your hands to simulate the same motions you would use in real life to control a horse with reins. It's really not that hard. Tug left rein, turn left. Tug right rein, turn right. Tug both, stop. Move arms up and down to simulate whipping motion, horse goes. Pretty simple for Kinect to understand these motions. There is no reason for the horse sections to be on rails.

 

[Kunan]

Biggest disappointment of the show for me

 

[Hulud]

It's getting harder and harder to be a P.M. apologist. This isn't even over-promising, it sounds like outright lying. Will wait and see what the final game is like though.

 

[milkyjay20]

It's getting harder and harder to be a P.M. apologist. This isn't even over-promising, it sounds like outright lying. Will wait and see what the final game is like though.

just get into a semantics contest like the apologists in this thread. seems pretty easy, if you specialize in being disingenuous.

 

[Neuromancer]

LMFAO

he really is just a straight liar, and not in a normal game developer way. he's actually admitted to lying just for the hell of it. i've met people like this, lying just for the sake of it. i know a guy in his 50s who said he knew the 20-something weather girls when they were kids. it's less about corruption and more like a mental disease with molyneux.

He was joking, ffs.

 

[Castor Krieg]

I don't know if it's been posted, but it probably speaks a lot about Microsoft treating its first-party studios, when Lionhead can't even get a decent showing of new Fable game, but third-party MW3 gets full level preview (which according to witnesses was pre-recorded).

 

[AcceptableGhost]

Microsoft doesn't give a fuck about first party exclusives other than Halo.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Gamers - Fable 'a horrendous mistake'

/Thread.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

He was joking, ffs.

We've established that's not the case.

 

[Dennis]

 

[witchedwiz]

it's not on-rails!
it's an open-world where you can rail your horse/caravan/convoy in a fixed direction, while making gesture to cast spell/use attack!
so it's not on-rails it's a sort of open-closed-world-rails!

le-sigh...
peter peter.. give us something, not shit like this, and please, at least don't go and try to cover the dung once it's out... you bombed, HARD.. end of story..
can this project if you really don't feel comfortable with it anymore and give us a fable4... hopefully larger than fable3 and that actually adds something to the fable formula...

 

[Neuromancer]

We've established that's not the case.

Just remember, it's not a lie if you believe it.

 

[Schrade]

[i mg]http://www.abload.de/img/m1hj7a.jpg[/img]

Heh. I was hoping someone would do this

Good job... made me laugh at work.

 

[cleveridea]

those mementos are awesome

 

[MarshMellow96]

I personally can't wait for the post-release interview, where Molyneux laments the fact that they tried to get it off the rails and failed.

 

[sazzy]

Shows how disconnected the industry has become from it's audience

SwooftqwoareOaooq

 

[Dambrosi]

Being on-rails isn't necessarily a bad thing - see Panzer Dragoon and every lightgun shooter Sega and Namco ever made - but in an RPG? Only Dragon Quest Swords got away with that, and even that's debatable.

As for poor Peter, well, the man's always been...psychologically challenged, so leave him be.

 

[Windom Earle]

Fable 2 was the most soulless cash grab of a game that I have ever played. It had a beginning, a middle and an end, with as little in between as possible to still qualify as a game. Definitely my most regrettable purchase in recent memory.

Yep. Fable 2 has a heart. But it is made of crap.

 

[Totobeni]

Yep. Fable 2 has a heart. But it is made of crap.

Well at least it has one, Fable 3 was a heartless abomination made of poop.

 

[Sydle]

I personally can't wait for the post-release interview, where Molyneux laments the fact that they tried to get it off the rails and failed.

This is what I'm looking forward to as well.

 

[Drkirby]

Well, he wrote it on a wall, so it must be true.