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Most and least talented 1st party dev teams
- Thread starter Lagspike_exe
- Start date
grandjedi6
Master of the Google Search
I was actually tempted to list London too, but I decided Cambridge's output has been slightly worse. Guess I should have thrown in both then. It is interesting to know though that Cambridge also suffers from mismanagement (and/or "made to do the crappy jobs").SolidSnakex said:
Nintendo's best is EAD, I suppose that's split up over a bunch of dev teams but I can't really say one is much better than another. There's quality coming out of all of them even if GAF doesn't recognize it.
Worst is easily Monolith Soft. You know they're bad because nobody can think of them enough to name them in this thread. Retro Studios and NST my ass.
Worst is easily Monolith Soft. You know they're bad because nobody can think of them enough to name them in this thread. Retro Studios and NST my ass.
SolidusDave said:
actually Team ICO is part of SCE Japan Studio
PD and Clap Hanz has their own bulding/studios outside SCE Japan Studio.
SolidusDave said:
Pyramid is 3rd party studio , pretty sure Jetray Logic and Bexide are 3rd party studios too
Echochrome and The Last guy are developed by SCE Japan Studio , and Hindurstian Electronics is just a joke name.
SolidusDave said:
Rhino + Artdink= 3rd party studios.
SolidusDave said:
not anymore , Game Republic is working for Namco now.
known SCE Japan Studio teams are Team ICO , Project Siren , Tsutomu Kouno team , Ape Escape Team ( all very small teams ) plus Polyphony Digital and Clap Hanz as seperated SCEJ studios.
one major problem of Sony in Japan is right here , SCEJ is very very small compared to SCEA or SCEE , see how much Japanese studios SEGA , Capcom and Nintendo own compared to few lil teams that SCEJ own , if Sony is serious about Japan they should make SCEJ bigger than what is now ( hire guys or buy studios ).
Pristine_Condition
Member
A lot of people must be forgetting that SOE was folded into the SCEWW structure...They are easily the worst Sony studio right now, though I actually like the ideas behind The Agency, and their dev team seems very enthusiastic, and now that they are part of SCEWW, they have tech help, which gives me hope.
Oh, and I also added a "most squandered" category. This is for studios that have talent, but look like they could be doing better, or doing more, or whatever, but don't, for whatever reasons.
Sony:
Most - Naughty Dog
Least - SOE
Most Squandered - Polyphony
Nintendo:
Most - Intelligent Systems
Least - Brownie Brown
Most Squandered - Retro
Microsoft:
Most - Lionhead
Least - XBox Live Productions
Most Squandered - Rare
I hate to say stuff like this about studios though. As a total outsider, you never know what is going on, you only see the output. There could be a genius working in one of these teams that just needs the opportunity, and I hope they get that opportunity someday.
Also, the fortunes of any of these teams which we perceive one way or the other can change very quickly. It only takes one great game or one total stinker, or sometimes a change in personnel, management or direction, to turn things around in a business built on ideas and talent. We all need to keep that in mind, and judge each game on their merits with open minds, rather than look at the credits and decide whether a game is good or not based on where it comes from.
Oh, and I also added a "most squandered" category. This is for studios that have talent, but look like they could be doing better, or doing more, or whatever, but don't, for whatever reasons.
Sony:
Most - Naughty Dog
Least - SOE
Most Squandered - Polyphony
Nintendo:
Most - Intelligent Systems
Least - Brownie Brown
Most Squandered - Retro
Microsoft:
Most - Lionhead
Least - XBox Live Productions
Most Squandered - Rare
I hate to say stuff like this about studios though. As a total outsider, you never know what is going on, you only see the output. There could be a genius working in one of these teams that just needs the opportunity, and I hope they get that opportunity someday.
Also, the fortunes of any of these teams which we perceive one way or the other can change very quickly. It only takes one great game or one total stinker, or sometimes a change in personnel, management or direction, to turn things around in a business built on ideas and talent. We all need to keep that in mind, and judge each game on their merits with open minds, rather than look at the credits and decide whether a game is good or not based on where it comes from.
grandjedi6 said:
sony's cambridge is the R&D studio for the european division of SCEI, they're the ones that develop tools and help other devs in the development.
they've been pretty prolific, not in the sense of game development, but in everything else.
- helped ninja theory, guerrilla, sony london in the development of various projects
- created playTv and its software
- fixed UE3 for ps3 (when the engine was shitting on ps3, epic didn't move a finger, it was cambridge that fixed it for the ps3)
- developed littlebigplanet for the psp
- created many tools for ps3 development
this was all done by a 60/70 people team (that's the capacity of the dev). IMO they've been very prolific, not in the sense most people expect from a game dev (which cambridge is partly).
AndoCalrissian
Member
Eh, I'd say MAG looks merely acceptable.Lagspike_exe said:
I'm including companies that only make games exclusively, whether fully owned or not.
Nintendo: Retro and EAD Tokyo I'd say
Microsoft: Bungie
Sony: Naughty Dog, Team Ico, Guerilla (though, they're not timely)
SolidusDave
Member
Totobeni said:
meh
thx for the infoeven the Sony-cat developers are independent? wow, SCEJ should just hire more people Oo
At least Sony is known for funding/helping small independent studios and keeping good relations with them (MM, that game company etc.).
Though I guess Japan Studio has covered the proven VIPs (Ueda, ex-SH-guys) and started specifically hiring creative guys through these contests.
Pristine_Condition
Member
AndoCalrissian said:
I'd hold off until we get to see the next round of the beta to make that judgement. I have a buddy who has been into the MAG scene for a while now, and as an outside observer, that game seems to be getting better and better. It has at least the potential to surprise a lot of people, and have a hardcore fan base that will really latch on to the game. And there's a real vision there, something that can't be said for a lot of studios.
It's really a hard call for some. Sony having the superior 1st party studio's makes it tough to single one out. Though as of now Naughty Dog is at the top for me, Uncharted 2 was beyond incredible all around. I'm sure Trico will be great based on their prior works. Polyphony is incredibly talented. Guerrilla is as well as KZ2 proved. Zipper somehow pulled off a decent looking game considering size/scale/action that is the best performing MP game of this gen (by a long shot) just by the beta I was in. Then we have all the Warhawks, LBP's, GoW's, etc, not to mention devs like Insomniac and Sucker Punch throwing in as well. Sony just has a ton of talent on their side, which always makes a strong argument why you should own their console.
Least talented from them? I dunno, perhaps SOE.
MS lost a lot of their studios. Their 1st party has basically dried up, thus what happened to them in 09 game wise. Rare seems pretty talented from all the work they do behind the scenes not to mention their games. Lionshead is ok. Bungie is gone. There's nothing really left there for them. It's something they really-really need to work on next gen.
Ninty, I never really pay attention to. Nothing they did so far this gen impressed me. Maybe the new Zelda will win me over or something. Especially if it echoes LoZ and ALttP.
Least talented from them? I dunno, perhaps SOE.
MS lost a lot of their studios. Their 1st party has basically dried up, thus what happened to them in 09 game wise. Rare seems pretty talented from all the work they do behind the scenes not to mention their games. Lionshead is ok. Bungie is gone. There's nothing really left there for them. It's something they really-really need to work on next gen.
Ninty, I never really pay attention to. Nothing they did so far this gen impressed me. Maybe the new Zelda will win me over or something. Especially if it echoes LoZ and ALttP.
Jaded Alyx
Member
They've been mentioned.Somnid said:
And these people were as wrong as you.
makingmusic476
Member
Pristine_Condition said:
As far as I'm aware, the merging of SOE into SCE had more to do with Stringer's rearranging of the company than anything else, and while they're now under SCE as opposed to Sony Pictures, SOE still act rather autonomous (hence why they still focus first and foremost on the PC). They aren't even listed on the Worldwide Studios homepage.
As much as I'd love for SOE to get some feedback (in tech and other areas of game design) from Sony's other developers, I doubt that'll happen because of the merger.
Sony: Team ICO is easily the best. Insomniac probably the worst by the games I've played. I hate the Resistance games and the new Ratchet sucked ass.
Ninty: Retro made Metroid Prime 3 so they win. The worst game I've owned on Wii was Super Paper Mario so whoever made that one is the worst :b
Ninty: Retro made Metroid Prime 3 so they win. The worst game I've owned on Wii was Super Paper Mario so whoever made that one is the worst :b
Eh i can't possibly put SOE anywhere near the least. Their weakest games were salvaged games from other sorry developers (sorry brad). Well all except Untold Legends. Man those games sucked. Why couldn't they just do champions of norrath? They haven't been the best lately and i'm not gonna lie...The Agency and DCU looks like crap. But they aren't the worst and their lull period could probably be blamed on management. At least now they are back to actually making MMOs like they should be.
riskVSreward
Member
My vote for best goes to SEGA.
:-(
Sol.. said:
PS3 Untold Legends is OK if you have someone to play with, and want a PS2-style Baldurs Gate clone.
I think EA bought that franchise, wich sounds crazy, but I recall reading something like that. I wonder if they have plans to make another game or leave it in limbo. :-/
Personally I think all 1st party-studios are really good, dunno much about MS and Nintendo tough, since they don't make games for PC (Ensemble studios used to make awesome games, before they were laid off), and I down't own any Nintendo-platforms.
Best second party studio is Insomniac, mainly because they pump out many good games.
Best third party publisher is Sega, and best independant studio is Egosoft (X-franchise, abit buggy at release sometimes, but the game makes up for it).
riskVSreward
Member
:-( They used to be first party.zoukka said:He didn't read the thread!
I can't give you a good answer though because I don't have a PS3 or a Wii and 360's first parties aren't anything special to me.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
J-Rzez said:
Is it really, though? With a fraction of the capital, they've become the primary HD console in the biggest region in the world. 75% of multiplatform titles sell better on it. I'm sure in some office in Redmond, someone did the math and saw that funding first party titles isn't worth the investment. Personally I don't see how MS investing in a first party would make the 360 a better console for me to play.
It's not like their console unit sales are suffering because of a lack of first party titles. They've decided to shift their money to marketing partnerships instead. Or is it more of a situation where you think more games would exist if they had a huge first party stable and therefore it would be a better situation? Because I'm not sure that's quite right either. RARE has put out two of the best games of the generation (TIP and Nuts & Bolts) and it certainly didn't give MS much of a return on that investment. I guarantee the marketing partnership with Activision for MW2 garnered them much more benefit than the money they put into those two games, sadly enough.
So I'm not particularly sure they need to cultivate a first party. They have a lot control over the gameplay experience anyway by standardizing Live across the board and I'd be willing the bet they'll have the same input on any Natal products thanks to their agreed-upon to be fantastic dev resources. In a whole lot of ways, MS has exercised control and consistency across all three party tiers this generation. I don't particularly see what the benefit would be for them to reinvest in first parties.
And if they looked at the rest of the marketplace I'm not sure they see a profitable path for themselves. Nintendo's first party is a monster, but a very unique one. Their franchises ARE gaming for millions of people and have been for like two decades now. And Sony's first party offerings, while astounding in quality, don't really perform magnitudes then big third party titles.
So if you were Microsoft, knowing that you had no stable of franchises like that (one game does not a stable make), and you saw that a quality first party title isn't even a guarantee of wild and profitable success, why in particular would they bother?
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
szaromir said:
Well, yeah, I mean they do stuff like that and always will, but in terms of big budget showcases, I feel like they'd rather let other parties do the heavy lifting.
jett said:
Same dev made the following.
Animal Crossing
Animal Crossing: Wild World
Wii Sports
Wii Play
Animal Crossing: City Folk
Wii Sports Resort
And fuck that anyway, Wii Music is not bad at all.
To be honest guys, If you count Nintendo EAD as one developer, it fucking blows everything else out of the water.
The difficult thing would be to chose which EAD is the best...Probably EAD Tokyo or or EAD 3 (Zelda team).
Also gotta love HAL (yes they bloody count) for smash bros and Kirby, Intelligent Systems for Paper Mario, Advance Wars, Fire Emblem etc.
Nintendo SPD according to wikipedia helped make WarioWare (with Intelligent Systems) and developed the Rhythm Tengoku games so they're awesome too.
Fucking love Retro as well.
In terms of least favorite...maybe Insomniac (although I'm not 100% that they are first or second party). Don't like Ratchet games or indeed the resistance series. Love Spyro games but only the old handheld ones by DES.
Sucker Punch are great though. Infamous is awesome and of the four Sony platformers (crash, ratchet, sly, jak), Sly Cooper is far and away the best. Can't stand any of the others. To be honest, Naughty Dog are awesome to me because of Uncharted. If it weren't for that...
Microsoft.... not much choice really, Rare I suppose. Viva Pinata is pretty cool and I quite like the new Banjo. Plus Rare have the legacy.
And God Team Ico. Good bloody stuff.
Technically speaking, Guerilla and Naughty Dog are impressive. In terms of getting the most out of a console for Nintendo it would probably be EAD Tokyo or HAL. But to be honest I get the sense that Nintendo games look really good when they actually try to make them look really good, doesn't really have much to do with the specific team.
And BTW...does GameFreak count?
True, they'll probably stick with independent developers like Epic or Bungie (or Ruffian or plenty more) for AAA titles. If a game bombs Too Human-style, they don't have to bother with fallout. Though it might hurt them sometimes, like with Bioware and long-term plans for Mass Effect.BenjaminBirdie said:
Starwolf_UK
Member
While they currently have an exclusivity conrtract with Nintendo they are not owned by them making them a Partner Development Studio (whatever that means).theluma said:And BTW...does GameFreak count?
It seems Ambrella is also a Partner Development Studio (though unlike Gamefreak Ambrella has only ever worked for Nintendo) which probably explains why they've not been mentioned yet (if they were eligible they could easily take the Nintendo's least talented crown).
caligula13
Gold Member
Best: EAD Tokyo.
brain_stew
Member
In terms of technical proficiency at least, no one comes close to Naughty Dog.
I'd like to see what some of Nintendo's premier studios could pull off on more capable hardware, I mean Mario Galaxy is the Wii's best looking game and it runs at 60fps to boot and pulls off a bunch of neat effects. I'm sure EAD Tokyo could work wonders given some decent hardware to play with.
I'd like to see what some of Nintendo's premier studios could pull off on more capable hardware, I mean Mario Galaxy is the Wii's best looking game and it runs at 60fps to boot and pulls off a bunch of neat effects. I'm sure EAD Tokyo could work wonders given some decent hardware to play with.
BenjaminBirdie said:
That's short sighted from MS IMO.
It's pretty clear from the launch of the PS3 slim, and with previous 360 exclusives' sequels now launching on PS3 day and date this year including BioShock 2, Lost Planet 2 and Dead Rising 2 that Sony are clearly getting back on the rails, and are not going to want to go through with the PS4 what they've been through with the PS3.
And if Sony bring all that support for the PS4, (and to the second half of the PS3's life,) on top of all Sony's 1st part studio offerings, what would be the future incentive to get an Xbox if MS aren't making a glut of big games themselves?
The incentive to get a 360 early on was because the PS3 was in all sorts of trouble; third parties had lost confidence in Sony, and MS's whole business plan was to take content away from Sony and the PS3; and the problems with the PS3 made it easy to do so.
That's hardly the case now, is it.
GoWIII and Gran Turismo 5 are without doubt the PS3's most anticipated games and are undoubtedly going to push the PS3 forward, but the crucial thing is that Sony are in control of that content.
Sony are not going to be sat at E3 thinking "I hope MS don't announce that God Of War is coming to the 360". Whereas there is every the chance that Left 4 Dead, Mass Effect, Splinter Cell and maybe even Gears come over the PS3, now that Sony's third party relations people finally seem to be waking up, and now that the PS3 is pushing forward.
MS are not in control of those aforementioned games. And just like FFXIII, anything can happen. Especially since Sony is now showing the kind of intelligence it had with PS2, it's going to be harder for MS to keep content away from the PS3, and probably future Sony consoles as well, so IMO, MS will definitely need some talented in house studios for next gen - Natal should cover the end of this one; Halo is only going to get you so far.
For MS, Turn 10 is definitely their most talented. The fact that they get such beautiful scenery and cars on the screen at an absolutely unwavering 60 frames per second is amazing. And the fantasy tracks that they have crafted for Forza 3 are some of the best I've ever played.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
offshore said:
I can see shifts next gen, very true, but I think this gen is pretty settled and, indeed, that's probably all MS is thinking about. They're probably figuring that their one year advantage is now a permanent stat buff and that the NextBox will come out a year early as well. That remains to be seen, of course.
Because all of those franchises you mentioned, how many more of them does MS have to worry about this gen? Conviction and ME 2 are certainly some level of exclusive. Who knows when Left 4 Dead 3 will make it out, same with Gears 3. It's short sighted, sure, But I don't think it's currently detriment enough for them to shift investment strategies. Clearly they feel that it's uniqueness of something like the Wii that holds the most profit potential, not bigger and better blockbuster titles that they own exclusively. Someone can play GT5 instead of FM3 but they're betting (right or wrong) that there will only be one place to play with something like Natal.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
tenritsu said:
I like that people who hate on Rare have half a word of evidence to back them up and the people who claim their work this generation is fantastic have played their games for dozens of hours. I would imagine to make a qualitative claim like "worst first gen developer" you'd have a fairly significant list of design failures at the ready. Especially when you throw around a quantifier like "easily".
Sony:
Most Talented - Naughty Dog. I don't believe there's another developer in the business that puts as much effort into making sure they're games are as technically and artistically immaculate. I respect that a whole lot.
Least Talented: SOE. I really hope they turn a corner under SCEWWs, but for the longest time they've been the polar opposite of Naughty Dog. I really wish they'd make an Oblivion style WRPG for PS3 though.
Most Talented - Naughty Dog. I don't believe there's another developer in the business that puts as much effort into making sure they're games are as technically and artistically immaculate. I respect that a whole lot.
Least Talented: SOE. I really hope they turn a corner under SCEWWs, but for the longest time they've been the polar opposite of Naughty Dog. I really wish they'd make an Oblivion style WRPG for PS3 though.
ConcealedBlaze
Member
TheGreatMightyPoo said:
You said exactly what I wanted to say, but better than I could. Thank you.
Sony's best is definitely Team Ico
MS's is probably Rare (simply because they have little competition)
Nintendo's is definitely EAD Tokyo
For the record I'm pretty sure SPD1 created the awesome Wario Wares (Mega Microgames and Twisted) and Intelligent Systems made the console ones and the shittier DS one. So stop giving IS credit for that.
Nintendo's best is EAD Tokyo, definitely the most creative group they have going right now. I'll be excited to see what they do after Galaxy 2.
Worst must be NST...probably not their fault though.
Sony's best is definitely Naughty Dog. Technical wizards who understand fluid controls and strong game design too. I want to see them try something different for their next title.
I dunno about Sony's worst. I'm not as familiar with their studios and overall their 1st party output has been really, really strong this gen.
Nintendo's best is EAD Tokyo, definitely the most creative group they have going right now. I'll be excited to see what they do after Galaxy 2.
Worst must be NST...probably not their fault though.
Sony's best is definitely Naughty Dog. Technical wizards who understand fluid controls and strong game design too. I want to see them try something different for their next title.
I dunno about Sony's worst. I'm not as familiar with their studios and overall their 1st party output has been really, really strong this gen.
theluma said:
The original was developed by SPD alone. After the success of the game, Iwata wanted the team to to remake it for the Gamecube as fast as possible and in order to do that they needed help from some Intelligent Systems programmers. Ever since then Intelligent Systems has co-developed all the WarioWare titles with SPD
BenjaminBirdie said:
I can't disagree with that, and I'm sure Sony too are looking at the Wii "business model", and MS, Sony and Nintendo are all sure to be going to make some unique gaming experiences next gen - as well as this gen, so there's gong to be a lot of competition; MS probably won't be the only ones trying to make these unique experiences/unique consoles.
But in my own personal opinion, I don't see these unique experiences negating the need for, or importance of, blockbuster titles and franchises.
makingmusic476
Member
Like they don't spend a lot keeping games exclusive? And they often end up only being timed exclusive at that (Ninja Gaiden).BenjaminBirdie said:
Look at Gears of War. It's pretty well known that Microsoft only locked up exclusivity for the first two titles. They have managed to invest millions into the marketing and development of that franchise, as much as any first party release, turning it into a series that sells 5+ million with every iteration. Now with the third title, they have to work out a deal with Epic to keep a 5+ million selling franchise exclusive to 360, rather then Epic going off on their own and making it an 8-10 million selling fully multiplatform (360/ps3/pc) franchise.
They'll probably fork over the cash necessary to keep the franchise exclusive, but you can bet it'll be a lot of cash.
Microsoft still has to pay money for its exclusives, they just don't have to worry about the upkeep and management of a plethora of studios like Sony and Nintendo, and in the end, they get weaker results (mere timed exclusivity for stuff like Bioshock, with no exclusivity for the sequel), while sometimes spending more money than Sony or Nintendo would to develop a title (in the case of Tales of Vesperia, Namco seemingly only went exclusive to help fund the inevitable ps3 version). They're still investing a good bit of money into this, but as somebody else said before, they're investing in things they ultimately have little control over. With Bioshock, they helped craft a very popular new IP, one that is now fully multiplatform. What if in the future, Epic says, "fuck you"?
And in the end, the reason the 360 sells more software than the ps3 is because of Sony's screw ups, mainly launching a year late at $599.
leroy hacker said:
So sorry to read these things about NST. They used to be one of my favourite developers on the Gc era, with waverace bluestorm and 1080 being both amazing in my opinion.
I think that was Nintendo's fault their value has decreased so much, they've put the team on smaller and incosistent projects. Maybe they've losed some of their key members, who knows
Anyway Colin Reed didn't left nintendo for Turn10?