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Most games are so simplified these days.

Realyn

Member
Hey,
excuse any spelling fuckups. Not my native language, but should get the point across :).

So, I'm becoming really frustrated about videogames. I'm the kind of person that plays (solo)games for a challenge. Playing with friends online is another story, but let's focus on singleplayer games for now.
I honestly believe the games are getting worse and worse, atleast gameplaywise. I do understand that publisher are no charity organization and want to appeal a broad publicum ... but yeah, that doesn't make the games any better.

Let's start with RPGs.
I hope that I'm not forgetting a game, but the games I really enjoyed this gen: Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, Dragon Age 1, Blue Dragon, Dark/Demon Souls, Eternal Sonata, Tales of Vesperia, Atelier Meruru, Disgaea 3. Folklore, Lost Odyssey, Super Paper Mario.
That's basically all I can remember for the last seven years. All of those games have a likeable cast(at least to me) , a deep combat system, a good and meaningfull story and stuff like sidequests/content after finishing the game.

Then again, there are games like Star Ocean 4. For one, the story writer had to be on crack when he wrote those characters. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy them till some point ... but yeah ... pervert little child sex hints weren't funny anymore after the 10th time.
Then there are the sidequests. I remember stuff like get x from y where you walked across a huge fucking boring map for 10 minutes. Reward was something like 5 potions. Great. Well, atleast they tried. But nowhere near the older Star Ocean games.
Which leads me to FF XIII and XIII-2. Finished XIII and was hugely dissapointed with the sidequest material.
I mean come on, in the end all they gave us was one huge area where you had to kill monsters over and over again. Oh, and grinding Monsters, yeah. While the main game had nothing. Nothing. No crafting, no minigames, no collecting or anything. A joke compared to any prior game.
I never finished XIII-2. Played about 20 hours and stopped because the game was soooo easy. Not because you could overgrind or something. Simply too easy.

That's something I so loved about Tales of Vesperia. It had 3(?) very fair difficulty levels you could change on the fly. Easy, Normal and Hard. I actually remember a early Boss(lvl ~14?) which I simply could not beat on Hard. Had to grind 2 or 3 levels in the area before him.
Sure, I got pissed after dieing 5 times in a row. But then I beat him and was like "FUCK YOUUU!!!".
A prime example of how to not overtune your highest diff setting are The Witcher 2 and Dragon Age2. Played Witcher for like 1 hour. There was this dragon setting a bridge on fire. One wrong move and you got oneshotted. Same goes for DA2 in the late game. Either you got lucky on your first playthrough and made good chars or you are going to get consistently one shooted. Ya.

Anyway, next stop: Adventure games and platformers. Thinking of it there actually were alot of great games. If you never heard of it I highly recommend to check out 3D Dot Heroes. It's basically a Zelda clone at it's finest. Also great games in my opinion are Zack and Wiki, Little King Story, Borderlands.
What I absolutly disliked were almost all first party games. Prime example: The latest Donkey Kong. No innovation. No jokes. No cool story. Just level after level after level with allmost the same monster types.

Well, I could go on and on. But I'll rant about just one more game: X-Com.
The Game is great, but has nearly no replay value. Just follow 2 steps: Build Satelites and when fighting move 2 tiles, set everyone on Overwatch and try to trigger a spawn. Hence, repeat.

Sim City is coming soon ... hope it will turn out good, but having serious doubts so far.

Anyway, how do you feel about it? Anyone in the same boat?
 
Mass consumer titles are becoming much more streamlined to get more sales.
Play more indie and small studio titles where they can go deep into mechanics without worrying about sales that much.

A lot of indie Japanese games and stuff on Steam Greenlight / Desura might catch your interest.

You still listed a lot of good games you enjoyed, but I certainly know that feeling. How do you feel about Monster Hunter or PSO2?
 
They're not, just look for harder games, they're out there, just take the time to look.

It sounds more like you're complaining more about difficulty rather than the actual game itself being simplified.
 
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You're seriously going to rely exclusively on overwatch baiting in XCOM? With that -20 to hit?

You can get pretty far in the game on normal like how he described but there is no way you are winning later battles with his strat, especially on classic or higher. And as for his claim that xcom has no replayability... why am I on my third game of it already then?


Xcom qualms aside, games have become streamlined. Sometimes its good, sometimes its bad. A lot of the games the OP mentioned as liking are streamlined versions of older games. So it's not a 100% evil endeavor. But it is nice when a game comes out that challenges not only your thumbs but also your brain.
 
Man. 3D Dot Game Heroes was really good. Finished it earlier this year. It's a parody of top-down Zelda, but actually manages to be a really good top-down Zelda game in and of itself. Definitely recommended if you want a classic-style action adventure game.
 
Thread subject is about simplified games, OP spends most of the time complaining about stuff that's got nothing to do with simplification of games.

Anyways, I highly disagree with games being too simplified in general. There are shittons of non-indie games that offer satisfyingly deep gameplay.
 
Well, check my post history. Made like 10 posts since I picked that avatar on the first D3 OT, I'm too lazy to change it to my old one ;).
 
It makes sense for developers to simplify games to help broaden the potential consumer base, but it'd be bloody nice if once in awhile they allowed us some more specific tools, (other than generic difficulty modes) so the players who want a more challenging and satisfying experience can make their own.

FPS in general may be light on the ol' complex game mechanics, but I've always enjoyed the skull modifier system In the Halo games since it was first introduced in Halo 2. Its pretty robust and Mythic difficulty makes for more than a challenge.
 
I have a real hard time following you. You whine games are getting shitty and yet, from the top of your head, you name like 10 or more great RPGS from THIS VERY GEN.
Do you realise that this is great? Having A DOZEN of great game in 1 genre during a gen is actually very good. Shit, SNES and PS1 were some really RPG driven generations and yet, can you name me more GREAT rpgs from those era? Those era also don't have much more than a dozen great game in the genre so I don't see the problem.

About your platformer thing. You complain about the story? Since when is the story important in a platformer? You remember better stories in the great NES platformers or again on the SNES? DKC series was a better story than what we have now? lol
Nah, seriously, platformers are a gameplay thing and there has been some freaking excellent ones this gen. It's actually coming back in force.
 
I agree with what you're saying in general but your Donkey Kong complaint is complete nonsense. Considering how hard it is, too.
 
The more people rally round an idea, the more radical the crowd will get at making the idea radically dumb and one-sided. That's the basic sociological principle of qualitative change through changes in quantity. It has very little to do with intent, even though maligning a business' character is a noble act. The current state is not an advanced stage in the medium's evolution. The more successful businesses simply employ more people. If you seek out the games with team sizes comparable to those of your favorite games of old, you'll be equally satisfied.
 
back in my days games were so complicated. We had not just a d-pad and a and b button, but we also had a START and SELECT button.
 
I have a real hard time following you. You whine games are getting shitty and yet, from the top of your head, you name like 10 or more great RPGS from THIS VERY GEN.
How many of those are from the recent 2 years?

Do you realise that this is great? Having A DOZEN of great game in 1 genre during a gen is actually very good. Shit, SNES and PS1 were some really RPG driven generations and yet, can you name me more GREAT rpgs from those era? Those era also don't have much more than a dozen great game in the genre so I don't see the problem.
Chrono Trigger
Breath of Fire
Lufia
Secret of Mana
Secret of Evermore
Mystic Quest
FF
Terranigma
Star Ocean
Super Mario RPG
Tales
Dragon Quest
Grandia
Alundra
Wild Arms
Xeno
Saga Frontier
Tactics Ogre
Chrono Cross
Jade Coocon
Parasite Eve
Lunar
Suikoden

Most of those series have way more than 1 game. Happy?


About your platformer thing. You complain about the story? Since when is the story important in a platformer? You remember better stories in the great NES platformers or again on the SNES? DKC series was a better story than what we have now? lol
Nah, seriously, platformers are a gameplay thing and there has been some freaking excellent ones this gen. It's actually coming back in force.
Personally I enjoyed the SNES Donkey Kong's way more. The old monkey selling me that hoovercraft and little things like that. That's what was missing for me on DKC.
 
To me it seems more like you dont like some specific games. Take for example Sim City as you mention, i cant imagine that this will be a lot more simplified compared to the older Sim City games. I'm sure all the options from the old games are going to be in the new game, and probably even more options, new things. If you will like it as much as the previous Sim City games (assuming that you liked those) is another question however.

Donkey Kong Country Returns isnt really more simplified compared to the older ones i think, at least when we talk about the gameplay. I never felt that there were much of a story in Donkey Kong Country SNES either (i'm not sure about DKC 2 and 3, never played those that much).

A genre that have gotten more advance is first person shooters. In the early days, it was pretty much just to choose a weapon and start deathmatch or capture the flag. Today we have a lot more options like weapon customization, perks, killstreaks and new modes.
 
I think I've made my stance on the matter more than clear in many threads.

The annoying thing about talking about it is the common response is to downgrade and play nothing but indie games that usually come off as even more shallow and pointless than big games. The industry grew for 20 years off the biggest and best of each system's time and now the biggest and best are games that aren't as good as early 2000 games.
 
I think I've made my stance on the matter more than clear in many threads.

The annoying thing about talking about it is the common response is to downgrade and play nothing but indie games that usually come off as even more shallow and pointless than big games. The industry grew for 20 years off the biggest and best of each system's time and now the biggest and best are games that aren't as good as early 2000 games.

He is %100 right sadly.
 
A genre that have gotten more advance is first person shooters. Today we have a lot more options like weapon customization, perks, killstreaks and new modes.
Artificial depth. Those options are merely there to make the game simpler, not more complex or advanced.

Don't like controlling weapons with high recoil/kick? Here's a grip attachment, now it's easier. Don't like those pesky iron sights making it difficulty for you to fully see your opponent? Have a red dot sight.
 
So you list over a dozen RPGs you really liked, then pick apart a handful of stinkers to show how simple and easy games are nowadays? Then you say that platformers and adventure games have been great.

If you want more good RPGs, get a flippin' handheld.
 
How many of those are from the recent 2 years?


Chrono Trigger
Breath of Fire
Lufia
Secret of Mana
Secret of Evermore
Mystic Quest
FF
Terranigma
Star Ocean
Super Mario RPG
Tales
Dragon Quest
Grandia
Alundra
Wild Arms
Xeno
Saga Frontier
Tactics Ogre
Chrono Cross
Jade Coocon
Parasite Eve
Lunar
Suikoden

Most of those series have way more than 1 game. Happy?


Naming games is easy. If you count the games regardless how good they are, it's possible that one gen is having more games than another. But we are speaking GREAT games. That's the whole point. Even if there was less RPGs this gen, if you roughly have the same great number of great games as before, where is the problem? Should we really give a damn about the total of games released?
I doubt there's much more than 10 truly great RPG games in ANY generations we've seen so far.
 
Yes, many games are getting easier.

I'm playing a game right now that is pretty simplified... in fact, some would say it's on rails..... time to go ride in my carriage some more!

Fable-The-Journey-Horse-Gameplay.jpg


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I'm actually kind of enjoying it though, surprisingly
 
Those were never difficult
If we're talking about SP as stated in the OP, then sure, but I wasn't talking about SP in case of those two games. The first Call of Duty stood with CS as a game worth taking seriously as a competitive game. Battlefield is simplified for different reasons.
 
I feel like games are too complicated these days.

Developers should take more cues from Hannah Montana for 360, that's what we're getting at here.
 
Naming games is easy. If you count the games regardless how good they are, it's possible that one gen is having more games than another. But we are speaking GREAT games. That's the whole point. Even if there was less RPGs this gen, if you roughly have the same great number of great games as before, where is the problem? Should we really give a damn about the total of games released?
I doubt there's much more than 10 truly great RPG games in ANY generations we've seen so far.

Well, you didn't quote the other part I answered you. Most of the stuff I listed in the OP is very old, one even a launch title. Also you asked me to name games iirc. And I think most of them are pretty great.

So, is this a thread for complaining about difficulty level? It seemed so at first, but then you complained about Donkey Kong and X-COM for different reasons.
Well, Both, I guess. My problem with the battle system in X-Com is, there os no tactic involved. Thanks to aliens randomly spawning and not patrolling.
Let's say you want to enter a Hallway, There is no need to cover your flanks or the area behind you, you can only trigger aliens by moving forward.
I guess they did it this way because aliens patrolling would mean long load times between turns, see Civ 5.

About the new Sim City, IT IS getting features removed. Subway system, water pipes, very small maps compared to SC4 for better online play.
 
Why are you comparing DKCR to games of other genres? That makes no sense.

As for platformers, I don't think they have become simpler.
 
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