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Most improved sequels of all time?

I personally would not include Uncharted 1 -> Uncharted 2. Uncharted 2 is definitely bigger, longer, bolder, higher octane. It's not a bad sequel. But personally I liked the theme and pacing of Uncharted 1 better, didn't really feel like there was a significant gameplay gulf between the two (I did like the moving setpiece collapsing building action segments, sure, but basically I felt like the things that both games did right were pretty much similar). I would say that I enjoyed Uncharted 1 better as a whole.

Now, certainly they're both top shelf games (which is another reason why I'd disqualify UC2; even if you assume it's a 10/10, if you'd give UC1 an 8/10 or a 9/10, UC2 is not the most improved sequel of all time), and this isn't meant to take away from the series, but I just liked the first game better.

iconoclast said:
Devil May Cry 2 (awful) --> Devil May Cry 3 (second best action game ever).

Both by the same director!
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I'm not sure I'd count this because DMC1->DMC3 would have been a pretty incremental improvement so really all you're saying is that DMC2 sucks, which isn't really the point of the thread :p
 
Pinzer said:
Ok this is ridiculous. AC2 did not improve very much over its predecessor. The overall structure of the game was more varied, but the missions themselves were still the same gameplay over and over. Plus, the missions this time were pointless errands that had nothing to do with the overarching plot. Then Ubisoft thought it was a good idea to use like twelve extra studios constructing pointless gameplay like the Villa which added absolutely nothing of interest. At least in AC1, each "mission" was in preparation for the upcoming assassination. The gameplay itself was pretty derivative, only adding a few new moves.

You guys keep telling yourself that AC2 is so much better but its not, you just had ridiculous expectations for the first.
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agree

i actually think AC was better in some parts. The combat in particular i really enjoyed a lot more in AC1
 
Amneisac said:
Yeah, I don't think Assassin's Creed and Uncharted really qualify in the spirit of what I took from the OP. I'd say like:

Just Cause 2 or Two Worlds 2 or Red Dead Redemption (sneaky? doesn't really count I guess)

The first game has to be universally panned. Not like going from a 9.0 to a 9.5.
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Assassins Creed got a lot of flak from reviewers even though it sold great.
 
demosthenes said:
Don't see why people say Uncharted 2 crushed Uncharted 1. Thought it was improved but not a landslide or anything.
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Uncharted one didn’t have very good game play, unimaginative level design, crappy ai and a cover system that just didn’t work in the game play and it kinda went farcry on us as well.

Uncharted 2 added a touch of imagination and this helped with level design and set pieces and made it a memorable experience
 
DennisK4 said:
no no no no no

The first Mass Effect was a better game. Sure the sequel had better combat but everything else was a step back. Except a few characters like Mordin and Thane.
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Actually the characters in ME2 were waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than most(most I said) of the ones in ME1.

Story is blatantly worse in ME2 though.
 
ZOE 1 - > ZOE 2
&
DMC2 - > DMC3

Those are the 2 that come to mind. I cant really think of anything else that has improved so much over 1 game.
 
DennisK4 said:
Assassins Creed got a lot of flak from reviewers even though it sold great.
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Yeah, but it was a lot of flak from half the reviewers, the other half were nutting all over it. I guess I just feel better about a game like Just Cause 2 that had a better commercial and critical reception than the original.
 
Amneisac said:
Yeah, I don't think Assassin's Creed and Uncharted really qualify in the spirit of what I took from the OP. I'd say like:

Just Cause 2 or Two Worlds 2 or Red Dead Redemption (sneaky? doesn't really count I guess)

The first game has to be universally panned. Not like going from a 9.0 to a 9.5.
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Jumping from 88-96 is quit an accomplishment though. That 96 caliber title just carries more weight to me than going from a 50 to an 80 average.
 
Prophet Steve said:
Assassins Creed 2 according to many people.

EDIT: Yeah, thought so.
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I think AC2 it was better, but I think the first game gets too much hate. The second game also has problems like being too much of a collectathon, and it's also still repetitive in places and too easy.

It was better, but not really a huge improvement IMO.

Coen said:
Dune II
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Well, that was a better game, but it's not even the same genre as the original. It's based on the same license but not really a sequel IMO.
 
Assasin's Creed 2
Street Fighter 2
Metal Gear Solid 3 (as a sequel/prequel to MGS2, even though I still love MGS2)
Uncharted 2

I'd almost be willing to throw Wizards and Warriors 2 in there as well, but as I already love the hell out of W&W1 that shouldn't count.
 
Just Cause II is a pretty good answer. Subjectively, no one really gave a shit about the first, but the sequel is a guilty pleasure for a ton of people.

Objectively, the games went from 68% to 84% on Metacritic.
 
ArjanN said:
I think AC2 it was better, but I think the first game gets too much hate. The second game also has problems like being too much of a collectathon, and it's also still repetitive in places and too easy.

It was better, but not really a huge improvement IMO.
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I also think it was better, but that it was only a little difference. The second game wasn't exactly flawless to me.
 
REV 09 said:
Jumping from 88-96 is quit an accomplishment though. That 96 caliber title just carries more weight to me than going from a 50 to an 80 average.
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Agreed, I just read the part about the 'biggest turnaround for a sequel' to mean the OP was looking for bad games that produced good sequels more than good games that produced really, really good sequels.
 
Another good Star Wars example is Dark Forces>Jedi Knight.

It's really hard to find anything that compares to SF1>SF2 though.
 
Pinzer said:
Ok this is ridiculous. AC2 did not improve very much over its predecessor. The overall structure of the game was more varied, but the missions themselves were still the same gameplay over and over. Plus, the missions this time were pointless errands that had nothing to do with the overarching plot. Then Ubisoft thought it was a good idea to use like twelve extra studios constructing pointless gameplay like the Villa which added absolutely nothing of interest. At least in AC1, each "mission" was in preparation for the upcoming assassination. The gameplay itself was pretty derivative, only adding a few new moves.

You guys keep telling yourself that AC2 is so much better but its not, you just had ridiculous expectations for the first.
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It was so much better than the first one that I actually enjoyed it. The controlled was smoothed for more enjoyable experience. I preferred the story of the 2nd game and the Animation was much more believable. You can ignore the combat as the first one was just beyond dull and didn't add the ''next-gen'' gameplay to it. It felt like a PS1.
 
That's pretty tricky actually. Lots of games just improve incrementally. They polish and improve, Halo, Mass Effect, Gears of War, Dead Rising etc.

Burnout 2 is probably the best example I can think of.

Some of the other games mentioned in this thread (e.g. Just Cause or Assassins Creed) were improvements, but it didn't transform the product into something I considered excellent.
 
I don't know how fair it is to include games that are considerably different than their predecessors. I like Mass Effect 2 more than the first game, but they straight up feel like different genre to me. ME2 is a fun shooter with a few rpg elements. ME1 is a (so-so) rpg with really bad shooter mechanics. ME2 mostly abandoned the rpg focus of the first game in order to be a better action game, and while it worked out to make it a better game in general, it ain't no rpg. Ideally they would have taken everything ME1 did so poorly and made it work well in the sequel instead of just dropping them.

A more obvious example is RDR to RDR.

ZoE1 -> ZoE2 is what I think of when I think of a sequel taking what the first game did and making it all work so much better the second time around.
 
Twisted Metal 2 and Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 are the big leaps for me, I spent hours upon hours playing both of those games. They have what made the first games great, and then a ton more content and refinement to the gameplay from their respective first games.
 
Stumpokapow said:
I personally would not include Uncharted 1 -> Uncharted 2. Uncharted 2 is definitely bigger, longer, bolder, higher octane. It's not a bad sequel. But personally I liked the theme and pacing of Uncharted 1 better, didn't really feel like there was a significant gameplay gulf between the two (I did like the moving setpiece collapsing building action segments, sure, but basically I felt like the things that both games did right were pretty much similar). I would say that I enjoyed Uncharted 1 better as a whole.

Now, certainly they're both top shelf games (which is another reason why I'd disqualify UC2; even if you assume it's a 10/10, if you'd give UC1 an 8/10 or a 9/10, UC2 is not the most improved sequel of all time), and this isn't meant to take away from the series, but I just liked the first game better.
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This is a bit OT but if you go back to UC1 you'll start noticing a lot of little flaws that weren't evident until UC2 came along. Like the now awful aiming camera with the main character taking a big chunk of screen space, or how Drake doesn't roll or snap into cover naturally. Or how he plain CAN'T move around cover. Gunplay doesn't feel as tight. Platforming is not as responsive and as snappy. Then there's the level design itself, compared to UC2 UC1 is just a bunch of combat arenas over and over with little variety to them. Level progression and combat situations in UC2 feel a lot more natural and varied. That's just me though, my experience of replaying the first Uncharted after the sequel. They made small(and big) improvements everywhere. Even the way Drake walks and runs in UC2, he does it, let's say, in a much more manly way than UC1 Drake. :P

I agree that they are both great games and don't belong in this thread.
 
Some of my personal choices:

Baldur's Gate 1 -> Baldur's Gate 2
Just Cause 1 -> Just Cause 2
Killzone 1 -> Killzone 2
Daggerfall (or Battlespire/Redguard) -> Morrowind
Neverwinter Nights 1 -> Neverwinter Nights 2
 
I'll join the Assassin's Creed 2 bandwagon. Mass Effect 2, Fable II and Gears 2 are all big steps in the right direction, too.

It's a shame Fable III had to come and fuck things up for the series.
 
Just Cause 2

I only played the demo for the first, but it was nothing worth playing. Just a 'meh' action game with no personality. The sequel is probably my favorite sandbox game ever. It's one of those games that don't bother with realism and just set the player loose - driving trucks off of cliffs and attaching people to airplanes never gets old. It's got an awesome engine too, it's a very pretty game.
 
Street Fighter 2 is an obvious one, although it basically changed the game entirely, rather than improving on it. Same with GTA3.
IK+ - The addition of the extra player made the game much faster paced
Speedball 2 - The original was pretty lame, the sequel a classic
Back to Skool - took a good game and made it great.
Target Renegade
Jet Set Willy

The early days have so many games that took a basic premise and really fleshed it out in the sequel.
 
John said:
isn't every bethesda game?
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I like Morrowind more than Oblivion, they are both fantastic, but I think Morrowind has more of the stuff that I love about Elder Scrolls games than Oblivion does.
 
Kinda not understanding all the love Ass Creed 2 got. Recently bought it and I'm playing through it at the moment, but man... maybe it's my memory but the graphics seem like a step back, the traversal seems stiffer and they may have introduced more mission variety, but you're still not much more than a shitty errand boy. Already sort of bored with it. Can't believe this won GOTY awards.
 
Booshka said:
Twisted Metal 2 and Tony Hawk Pro Skater 2 are the big leaps for me, I spent hours upon hours playing both of those games. They have what made the first games great, and then a ton more content and refinement to the gameplay from their respective first games.
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Cant believe I forgot about TM2!!
 
Booshka said:
I like Morrowind more than Oblivion, they are both fantastic, but I think Morrowind has more of the stuff that I love about Elder Scrolls games than Oblivion does.
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i was more implying that buying bethesda games on day 1 is basically opting into a $50 beta test
 
I've gotta go with Street Fighter II. That game helped an entire genre find a mainstream audience, and people still play it today. No one plays the original Street Fighter unless they are just curious or so they can say "I played the original Street Fighter."
 
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