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MS banning users over Halo 4 DLC debacle

KageMaru

Member
That's a roundabout way of looking at things. The other way might be to wonder why people would so easily believe MS could do that and not give a fuck. Most people complaining here aren't console warriors, they're Halo players.

That should tell you something about how MS could reap this mistrust come next gen if they fuck up their launch one way or another.

I don't think you have to be a console warrior to dislike or hate a company. I was mostly talking about the irrational behavior many have demonstrated in this thread anyways. I purposely waited for an update before posting in this mess of a thread because all the people jumping to conclusions is annoying and is counter productive to having a proper discussion.

Also outside of the die-hard warriors, these companies are always at risk of losing a customer, at least IMO.

Good to see that Skel's situation continues to be brought up in other threads and argued ad nasuem. For fuck's sake.

Yup agreed. Last i remember reading in that thread, MS was still waiting on an actual receipt, not an altered image, or something along those lines. Not sure if things have changed since then but I much rather the topic not bleed into here.
 
It was in the op at one point, but it's such a convoluted mess of edits now that it's not worth trying to puzzle out. The guy's Gamertag seems to show he got past Halo games early as well, but played offline, so it's not like this was his first time doing it.
But claims of him having to convince someone is unfounded, doubt he started editing parts of the story out.
 
200 according to 343. They could easily have given a low number to play it down.

Yeah the 200 people figure is obviously a lie, too large a percentage of them posted online for that to be accurate.

Its about as believable as the 14 day play and try promotion they 'planned' lol.
 
The more I hear of what he did the more of a douche I think he is. Then he post his tears on GAF hoping he can use the community to help him out. Disgusting.

My view even after that he should still be unbanned. No matter what, it is a legitimate copy of the game.

Douche? If the guy got the game legitimately (i.e. didn't steal it) and didn't pirate it then what more do you want? Why does that make him a douche? Oh the horror playing Halo 4 early!!! What is this world coming to?
 

Syriel

Member
Thanks, I had missed that post. My thoughts:

First, you are assuming Skel's actions were sufficiently manipulative to constitute inducing the store worker. He hasn't (IIRC) been specific about exactly how it went down but it would seem unlikely to me that a single customer could use force or coercion or even sufficient pressure to get a retail clerk to do something that he must know puts his own employer at risk, unless the worker was already more or less inclined to do it as a favor (which is more or less what he alluded to).

For that I was going off what was posted in the OT. While we don't know what level of coercion was involved, from a purely literal standpoint anything from "hey, can you sell me a copy of Halo 4 early cuz I'm a good customer, I promise not to tell" to "sell me an early copy and I'll give you an extra $100" would seem to meet the standard of creating a tort.

If this were a simple matter of John Doe walking into a store, buying a game off the shelf and walking out, then none of this would apply.

Second, from your own link:


What were the damages to Microsoft?

Third, if MS do in fact have a civil tort against Skel, they should pursue that claim through the civil system. Put another way: the fact that MS initiated extra-legal punishment by banning him from their proprietary service is orthogonal to the question of whether he broke the law, because their own TOS allow them to ban users for any reason at all.

Since you've said you think MS was mostly ethically in the wrong, I'm not sure what your actual argument is. If it's that MS had the right to ban him, I'm pretty sure we all know that's in the TOS, no one's arguing against that. If it's that MS banned him specifically as punishment for committing a civil tort against them, I'm not sure the evidence supports that conclusion.

Damages are a question. From Microsoft's point of view, damages would be whatever was stipulated in the contract as liquidated damages. Usually that's done when the impact is difficult to quantify. Damages could include anything from spoilers to comments that influence sales. Some might argue that the ban limited MS's damages. Others would argue that that action increased them.

As far as going straight to the judicial system, that's another question that's up for debate. Suing your customers is never a good strategy. In this case, what Skel did was against the law, but it wasn't criminal. And since MS isn't the govt, it was under no obligation to find a remedy via the legal system. As a side note, if it did go to the legal system, then Skel would have been compelled to turn over the store's information.

My honest guess is that someone at MS decided awhile back that it wasn't worth the cost/time/effort to sue for damages in a situation like this, instead opting to use the ToS to lock people out. There are merits to both sides of that argument as when it comes to business, just because you're right doesn't mean everyone will love you for it.

My main reason for bringing it up were the sheer number of people insisting that Skel was 100% in the right and didn't do anything wrong; that his actions couldn't possibly be against the law, etc. I don't know if that was just anti-MS emotion or a general ignorance of civil law, but the inaccuracy was bugging me.

Personally, I do think a permanent ban was a little much. But at the same time, I can't honestly say that Skel bears no blame for his situation and that's based purely on his own words.

If I were in Skel's shoes, I would have written to the arbitration team at Microsoft. They're outside the regular CS channels and are pretty much empowered to do whatever they think is right. If he didn't agree with their decision, then it would escalate to binding arbitration at MS's cost. The arbitrator would view all evidence presented and then make a decision. Skel could have argued his own damages as the cost of a new system + retail value of all digital downloads lost due to the banning. There would have been no cost to Skel, except time. I mentioned this in the OT as well.

Instead his reaction was to 1) complain on NeoGAF and 2) buy a new console.
 

dose

Member
In this case, what Skel did was against the law, but it wasn't criminal.
This is offtopic and should be in Skel's thread, but WTF? I have no idea where you have this idea from, and why you get the impression that he 'induced another to break a pre-existing contract with a third party' as you stated earlier.
 
It took Skel 13 months to find, seduce and finally pursue that Gamestop worker to give him Halo 4 before launchday. This elaborate scheme involved romantic dinners, a vacation at their family winter home in the Alps and even a quick getaway to Las Vegas to get married by Elvis, The King, Presley himself.

These kinds of conmen should be locked in for life!
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
As far as going straight to the judicial system, that's another question that's up for debate. Suing your customers is never a good strategy. In this case, what Skel did was against the law, but it wasn't criminal. And since MS isn't the govt, it was under no obligation to find a remedy via the legal system. As a side note, if it did go to the legal system, then Skel would have been compelled to turn over the store's information.

Against what law? How is someone purchasing something from a store against any law? Should I be penalised if a shop decides to sell its new line of shirts one day earlier than the other branches? Why is purchasing something before its official release date something illegal?
 
Against what law? How is someone purchasing something from a store against any law? Should I be penalised if a shop decides to sell its new line of shirts one day earlier than the other branches? Why is purchasing something before its official release date something illegal?

It's not illegal whatsoever. He's what I like to call "full of shit".
 

LAUGHTREY

Modesty becomes a woman
Against what law? How is someone purchasing something from a store against any law? Should I be penalised if a shop decides to sell its new line of shirts one day earlier than the other branches? Why is purchasing something before its official release date something illegal?

He obviously has no idea what he's talking about.
 
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