Support NeoGAF

[Catchpenny]

Non gamer = People who don't play any games. Casual gamer = Person who plays some games. Hmmm... I don't completely buy Sony's PR either, but targeting people who play some makes more sense than targeting people who play none, and hope to god they buy some.

That's a very literal interpretation of PR speak. Calm down. They are two terms describing a very similar audience.

 

[Kintaro]

That's a very literal interpretation of PR speak. Calm down. They are two terms describing a very similar audience.

It is very literal. Forgive me for, you know, pointing out what the words actually say to me.

 

[theBishop]

Funny, a quick look at 2007 release lists seems to indicate that PS2 has already lost its viability as the primary development platform.

Consumers who buy a PS2 are picking it up for games already released. Consumers buying a PS3/360/Wii are picking those consoles up with an eye towards games being released in the future. The PS2 has an incredible library of games released over the past five years. That's a lot of competition, and the shrinking amount of retail space allocated to PS2 software is increasingly dominated by Greatest Hits titles and bargain bins.

Really, this is like saying the GBA is still the primary development platform for portables.

Answer this question: Will there be a Madden NFL 2009 on the PS2?

Did you know there was a Madden 2005 for the PSone?

 

[stewy]

Answer this question: Will there be a Madden NFL 2009 on the PS2?

Did you know there was a Madden 2005 for the PSone?

Should also be pointed out that Sony only stopped manufacturing PSone's a few months back. That was like, a 12 year run.

 

[Drensch]

Microsoft dropping FUD? Sounds like a lie.

 

[Catchpenny]

Answer this question: Will there be a Madden NFL 2010 on the PS2?

Probably. Are all other versions of Madden 2010 going to be working off the PS2 engine? No.

Do you know what the word primary means?

 

[DJ Sl4m]

The funny thing about this is MS is the one that spent like an hour at E3 two years ago talking about how the game population had to expand and how they wanted to get to 1 billion people playing games.

Sony likewise has made bold proclaimations of trying to expand the market as well.

Nintendo's the only one that's really backed up their talk with action though. They're the only one that made hardware choices to break down some of the accessibility barriers that video games have.

What happened to that 1 billion gamer talk, MS? I gauruntee behind the scenes Bill Gates is asking his designers why they couldn't think of the Wiimote. He is paying them basically billions of dollars to follow Sony.

I don't see any women who aren't gamers getting on XBox Live and making "virtual clothes" or whatever the hell MS' bold idea was. But I do see women really getting into the Wii console, because they can actually play it. To me it's more like one company is acting while the other two are sitting back and playing Monday morning quarterback.

Sony and MSFT just gambled on a different approach.
I personally do think they want to broaden their scope of gamers buying their respective consoles, but use media player type functions for living room use as the attraction rather than the controller.

Personally I think all 3 are missing a huge potential by not developing an exclusive sports game for female athletes.
I guarantee you if any developer made a sports game with the NCAA logo representing female sports it would be HUGE.

Imagine a 1st attempt game with a track & Field, softball, basketball game all in 1, to test the waters, then expand from there. All athletes love to see what could be good placeholders as themselves in a sports game, and girls athletes are no different, this would blow open the desire for females to get more involved in video games & expand the market further, much more-so than a Wiimote or media player functions could ever do.

 

[Diablos]

Somehow, these statements are lodged somewhere in between honesty and damage control.

 

[bud]

Wii is a fad that outsold the 360 in Japan in its first day

 

[soundwave05]

The higher price of the PS3 I think really makes the Wii a good alternative for a lot of more casual people.

If Nintendo can get a good amount of party software for the machine and lower the price into 2007 ... I think they can steal away a reasonable chunk of Sony's core fanbase. Sony has *a lot* of people that are very casual, younger kids, etc.

MS will try and steal away Sony's hardcore base ... on that .... who knows. Sony has definitely given both Nintendo and Microsoft ample oppurtunties here though ... you can't really deny that.

 

[Odysseus]

I question the short term potential of the Wii once we roll into 2007.

 

[Big-E]

The higher price of the PS3 I think really makes the Wii a good alternative for a lot of more casual people.

If Nintendo can get a good amount of party software for the machine and lower the price into 2007 ... I think they can steal away a reasonable chunk of Sony's core fanbase. Sony has *a lot* of people that are very casual, kids, etc.

MS will try and steal away Sony's hardcore base ... on that .... who knows.

Thing is, me and my friends have always seen Ninetendo consoles as the party consoles. That's the one problem I see with the Wii, it appears to be trying to broaden into a different market but to me and a lot of my friends it is simply reprising its role as zelda and party console. I know that a lot of people like Wii sports and that it is popular with people who don't play games, but I don't think it has created such a lasting impression that people are going to run out and buy a Wii just because of Wii sports. I may be wrong but these are just my observations.

 

[theBishop]

Probably. Are all other versions of Madden 2010 going to be working off the PS2 engine? No.

Do you know what the word primary means?

Maybe you missed the part where I conceded that PS2 wouldn't be the primary platform in 2007. It certainly won't be the primary in 2010. But you went a step further and claimed that PS2 has already lost that position. Clearly untrue.

You also said that recent PS2 owners are "picking it up for games already released". If the people who bought Madden 2005 for the PSone are any indication, they will be buying PS2 games that haven't been released yet at least until 2010. Even so-called hardcore gamers will be buying God of War 2, Dawn of Mana, and others in 2007. After new, proper games stop being released, it will continue to get 3rd party multiplatforms easily into 2008 and probably beyond.

Which gets back to my original point: Wii's low pricepoint will do nothing to prevent the uptake of proper next-gen gaming. People who cannot afford PS3 and 360 will continue to play PS2 until next-gen is more affordable.

Early indications are that Wii will be a successful console, but this says very little about the success of PS3 or 360, and the development of games for those platforms. You'd have to look at the overlap between Wii consumers and PS2 consumers to see how many people are actually being enticed away from next-gen, a relatively small group of Playstation's audience.

 

[Catchpenny]

Sony and MSFT just gambled on a different approach.
I personally do think they want to broaden their scope of gamers buying their respective consoles, but use media player type functions for living room use as the attraction rather than the controller.

Yep. Everyone wants to expand their audience, and you don't do that just by squabbling over the same 100 million or so people.

Only one of the new consoles came bundled with a non-game at launch, and it wasn't the Wii.

 

[soundwave05]

Wii is more of party machine ala Dance Dance Revolution or Sing Star ... not really in the same way as the N64 or GC as I see it thus far.

 

[pswii60]

Please explain this concept to me.

If you're the kind of gamer who likes the gameplay experiences on 360 or PS3, wouldn't a "great second console" be a console that provides MORE of the gameplay experiences you like (i.e. the other proper next-gen system)?

For instance, I have a PS3. I already love Resistance. I think I would also love Gears of War. I do not want to play Elebits. Therefore, 360 makes a GREAT second console.

Fair enough, but Sony and MS really need to concentrate on the Wii *NOT* being appealing as a second console by release Wii-type games on the PS3 and 360. If they did that then there would BE no need for a second console.

 

[soundwave05]

Early indications are that Wii will be a successful console, but this says very little about the success of PS3 or 360, and the development of games for those platforms. You'd have to look at the overlap between Wii consumers and PS2 consumers to see how many people are actually being enticed away from next-gen, a relatively small group of Playstation's audience.

Nintendo's said from the start that they don't view the Wii as a direct answer to the PS3/360 and that those consoles will get their audience, and they're fine with that. Nintendo never said "death to the 150 million current console gamers!" or anything like that.

MS is the one that made a big fuss about 1 billion gamers and is now criticizing a company for actually trying to do something significant to appeal to that wider demographic that they were yapping about it for like a year straight.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Yep. Everyone wants to expand their audience, and you don't do that just by squabbling over the same 100 million or so people.

Only one of the new consoles came bundled with a non-game at launch, and it wasn't the Wii.

Which new console came bundled with a non-game at launch, and what game are you referring to ?

& of course broadening the gamer base is a huge plus, but squabbling over those 100 million is as important if not more-so considering those are just about guaranteed to buy again this generation.

 

[theBishop]

Fair enough, but Sony and MS really need to concentrate on the Wii *NOT* being appealing as a second console by release Wii-type games on the PS3 and 360. If they did that then there would BE no need for a second console.

PS2 has already been great in this regard with Eyetoy, DDR, Guitar Hero, Karaoke Revolution, Katamari Damacy, and lots more cross-over kinds of games.

The recent Threespeech writeup about Sony's plans for 2007 hint at continuing this. It sounds like SingStar is going to be a big part of the Playstation Store, and new EyeToy products will be released next year as well.

And this is completely ignoring PS3's SIXAXIS motion controls, and recent patent for IR-based pointer controls. There's every indication that PS3 will be capable of the same kinds of motion-based games as the Wii, assuming there's a market for it.

I think downloadable games are another way in which the next-gen consoles will provide different, more casual-friendly experiences. XBLA and Sony's EDI are well-positioned for this.

 

[theBishop]

Nintendo's said from the start that they don't view the Wii as a direct answer to the PS3/360 and that those consoles will get their audience, and they're fine with that. Nintendo never said "death to the 150 million current console gamers!" or anything like that.

MS is the one that made a big fuss about 1 billion gamers and is now criticizing a company for actually trying to do something significant to appeal to that wider demographic that they were yapping about it for like a year straight.

I agree. Everything Nintendo says about their strategy for the Wii sounds dead-on to me. They will do very well for themselves.

But Nintendo's strategy for the Wii and Nintendo Fanboy's perceived strategy for the Wii are not the same.

As for MS's "1 Billion" statement, I read a little while later that a big part of that strategy is providing something for the whole family. XBLA is a big part of that. So maybe they buy the 360 for the teenager who wants Gears of War, but Mom ends up playing it for Uno. Something like that, anyway. I don't think that's completely ridiculous, and anecdotally, my girlfriend is now playing Sodoku on my PS3.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

PS2 has already been great in this regard with Eyetoy, DDR, Guitar Hero, Karaoke Revolution, Katamari Damacy, and lots more cross-over kinds of games.

The recent Threespeech writeup about Sony's plans for 2007 hint at continuing this. It sounds like SingStar is going to be a big part of the Playstation Store, and new EyeToy products will be released next year as well.

And this is completely ignoring PS3's SIXAXIS motion controls, and recent patent for IR-based pointer controls. There's every indication that PS3 will be capable of the same kinds of motion-based games as the Wii, assuming there's a market for it.

I think downloadable games are another way in which the next-gen consoles will provide different, more casual-friendly experiences. XBLA and Sony's EDI are well-positioned for this.

Yes, plus the fact that as the generation grows older all 3 consoles should end up with a pretty good library of varied titles along with party games.

I believe if I'm not mistaken Guitar Hero 2 is also scheduled to release for PS3 and 360.

 

[Lord Phol]

Thing is, me and my friends have always seen Ninetendo consoles as the party consoles. That's the one problem I see with the Wii, it appears to be trying to broaden into a different market but to me and a lot of my friends it is simply reprising its role as zelda and party console. I know that a lot of people like Wii sports and that it is popular with people who don't play games, but I don't think it has created such a lasting impression that people are going to run out and buy a Wii just because of Wii sports. I may be wrong but these are just my observations.

I actually seen quite the opposite reaction from my friends. Most of them were curious about the console but at the same time they were afraid that it would turn out a gimmick. Just 10 minutes after trying it out at my house they all suddenly wanted to have one and we had a fun time playing it for over 6 hours that night (including my gf), before they all had to go home. And that was just with ONE controller and 2 games (Super Monkey Ball & Wii Sports).
After I get some more games and controllers I don't think I'll ever get them to leave my place.

I got great expectations from Wii, both as a Party and Stand-Alone Console and I'm pretty sure it'll deliver. Just give it some time (like u have to do with all consoles), before you start throwing out things like "It's just a fad/gimmick".

 

[Catchpenny]

Which new console came bundled with a non-game at launch, and what game are you referring to ?

PS3's first shipment, or 400,000 units, or something like that, came with the Blu-Ray version of Talladega Nights. That's as non-game as it gets.

& of course broadening the gamer base is a huge plus, but squabbling over those 100 million is as important if not more-so considering those are just about guaranteed to buy again this generation.

I agree for the most part. Though it really isn't the same 100 million, contrary to my other post. We often forget that there are always kids picking up controllers for the first time, and dudes who get married, have kids and lose time/interest for gaming. It's the same demographic from which the industry draws most of those 100 million, but styles and tastes do change a bit within that demographic every five years.

 

[speculawyer]

Pretty good PR . . . because everything he says is pretty true. He should have touched on the lack of HDTV capabilities too.

Take it easy ntards . . . he says it is great for Nintendo games.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

PS3's first shipment, or 400,000 units, or something like that, came with the Blu-Ray version of Talladega Nights. That's as non-game as it gets.

I nearly spit my beer out laughing at this reply, nice one

I agree for the most part. Though it really isn't the same 100 million, contrary to my other post. We often forget that there are always kids picking up controllers for the first time, and dudes who get married, have kids and lose time/interest for gaming. It's the same demographic from which the industry draws most of those 100 million, but styles and tastes do change a bit within that demographic every five years.

Of course.

 

[140.85]

iPod is just a fad too. An extremely Profitable one that Apple has leveraged into a muli-Billion dollar business.

I hate to contribute to the one-liner posts but.../thread

 

[theBishop]

I agree for the most part. Though it really isn't the same 100 million, contrary to my other post. We often forget that there are always kids picking up controllers for the first time, and dudes who get married, have kids and lose time/interest for gaming. It's the same demographic from which the industry draws most of those 100 million, but styles and tastes do change a bit within that demographic every five years.

I think that's a reductive view of video games in general. I believe games are the next important media since television and the overall market is going to grow considerably going forward. And not just because of touch-screens and motion controls.

The market research I've seen shows that 60% of gamers are > 30. People don't stop playing games when they get married, they raise kids who play games!

More and more, there's going to be kids (male and female) who grew up playing games. The fact that people like Jack Thompson still get airtime on TV shows that video games aren't ubiquitous. Eventually, games will get to the point where they simply aren't questioned as an art form because everyone will have grown up with them.

 

[DJ Sl4m]

I hate to contribute to the one-liner posts but.../thread

It's ok, it wasn't much of a contribution.

 

[bishoptl]

If 8 or more Ubi games hit retail for Wii in the next 11 months, then the mods can ban me for a month.

Did someone call?

 

[Dante]

Sooooo.....PSWii then????

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Did someone call?

:lol :lol He must not know about UBI, to the left to the left.

 

[terrene]

I cannot believe that a non-Sony PR person would say such things about a competitor's product. Such arrogance is unprecedented. Really.

Truly.

Seriously.

Joke? I don't see a lot to argue about in this guy's comments. And even if you don't have the same doubts as he about the viability of the Wii platform, I can hardly see how you'd find his statements "arrogant."

 

[Safe Bet]

You don't get the 100 million+ market with a 600$/€(!!) console though.

No you don't...

You get there with a $300 one...

 

[buckfutter]

Joke? I don't see a lot to argue about in this guy's comments. And even if you don't have the same doubts as he about the viability of the Wii platform, I can hardly see how you'd find his statements "arrogant."

Dammit, I'll just never be Anihawk.

 

[choc_cake]

iPod is just a fad too. An extremely Profitable one that Apple has leveraged into a muli-Billion dollar business.

No, iPod is not a fad. It plays music and it is portable (which more people care about than that of Wii or playing games). Do you remember the Sony Walkman?

Well the iPod is the Sony Walkman of the 21st century.

 

[choc_cake]

I think Ubisoft has released more games on the Wii than they have on the 360 so far. So much for the third party support not being there.

Does it really matter though? I mean most of the ubisoft games are crap on the wii and just consist of quick ports to make a quick buck.

Even that might go away over the next year or so.

 

[Boards of Canada]

Wait, Microsoft doesn't love the Wii?

 

[thekad]

What happened to that 1 billion gamer talk, MS? I gauruntee behind the scenes Bill Gates is asking his designers why they couldn't think of the Wiimote. He is paying them basically billions of dollars to follow Sony.

Live Anywhere?

 

[gutter_trash]

after Christmas is over and when the drought begins, we will see if the Wii becomes a Gamecube

3rd party support exists but the wrong type of support

I hate inter-generational ports.. I freakin' hate them with a passion. It is discusting as a gamer to see the Wii getting pooped on by cheap 3rd parties who are taking past generation titles and slapping waggle on them

inderictly,, the Wii is helping th PS2 staying alive longer because 3rd parties will continue making PS2 games then dumping them on Wii

Sad but true

I want a Wii, and I will buy one.... but for Mario Galaxy.... and when is Mario Galaxy comming out???

 

[soundwave05]

A drought doesn't neccessarily mean the end of the world. All systems go through droughts or "soft periods", even market leading ones like the Playstation, PS2, GBA, and DS. PS2 library pretty much was blah until Gran Turismo 3 came out like 8 months later.

The GameCube's failure was in large part because it never did anything to stand out, looked like a Fisher Price toy, was poorly marketed, didn't do much to try and expand Nintendo's audience, made a poor first impression, EAD didn't deliver with Mario Sunshine, alienated people with Zelda: WW, and Rare/Retro/NST really couldn't back EAD up.

Besides I'm not sure Sonic: Secret of the Rings + Mario Party 8 + Wario Ware + Medal of Honor neccisitates a drought exactly. The GameCube's Q1 was far worse ... only a Dreamcast port of Sonic Adventure pretty much. The funny thing is Sonic, Mario Party, and Wario Ware could all sell in the 400k-600k range quite reasonably given the the past history of these franchises on Nintendo consoles. That could end up being more than Lost Odyssey or Virtua Fighter 5 very easily.

 

[P90]

Didn't Sony question the long term potential of the 360 vs. the PS3? A cycnic may say that MS itself questions the long term potential of the 360 as they are operationg with (most likely) a four year cycle.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

Psst. 6 Billion - 100 Million is...?

That is Nintendo's potential market. There's a reason practically every single DS thread has the 'it prints money!' gif, you know.

I'm selling a stick with a string attached to it. Its a non-game of some sort, I dunno. My potential market is 6 billion - 100 million.


Psst. Quit being silly.

 

[etiolate]

MS should concern themselves with their own software lineup. I wouldn't be surprised if the Wii already has a broader demographic than the 360 despite the smaller userbase. Microsoft needs to address the issue Viva Pinata sales show and not worry about Nintendo's lineup. Or maybe DO worry, since they'll grab the VP demographic.

 

[Sean*O]

I did not read the original comments, but the 360/PS3 and Wii are obviously different kinds of systems that will be more appealing to different markets. As for staying power, who knows with the Wii?

Suppose MS and Sony released waggle type controllers for the 360 and PS3? The Wii would still have it's exclusive games, but I have to think that the Wii type controls on a system with more horsepower would be appealing to a lot of people.

I think that the Wii right now is benefitting a lot from the fact that it is priced lower, and yet is still perceived by many as a next gen system on par with the 360 and PS3 power-wise. Those who do not follow the industry very closely may be operating under the assumption that the Wii, as with all previous generations of consoles, is the same new tech that the 360 and PS3 are.

After all, that's the way it's always been. This is the first time that a flagship console has not been crammed with at least somewhat comprable power to the other flagship consoles in the marketplace.

 

[Mejilan]

Gaming world questions long term potential for Viva Pinata

Fixed.

 

[Deku]

I think the most logical rebuttal to the success Nintendo is currently enjoying is to plant the doubt that it will be a fad. If you play it like a game of cards, it comes down to a matter of probabilities and any claim made is going to have a chance of being true.

From a strategic point of view, both MS and Sony are moving in the same direction and fighting for the same demographics (there's a bit of an overlap, but I think its safe to say the initial 2 year arc for both consoles is the affluent game savvy male gamer).

In terms of strategic inertia the 360 in particular is pretty much rolling down a road that was predetermined before the console launched and reinforced in the past year. If Nintendo is right about betting on a new audience, both MS and Sony will be leaving a lot of cash on the table for Nintendo. They can emulate the games and even the controller on a small scale tactical level. But I doubt they can change their direction. The planning is set, their target audience is set and their image is pretty much set and it would be hard to start from scratch.

GameCube, PSP both suffer from the same problem of strategic inertia. The vision of both platforms were pretty well defined and despite attempts to emulate what was/is selling well, which did not neccesarily match both platform's image and strategic direction, they floundered.


I do think though that software is more of a key driver here than guesses about whether something is a fad or not. A control mechanism, like touchscreen can be a fad in of itself, but supported with the proper software over a long period of time, it can work. And the same applies to the Wii.

 

[Enron]

I, too, wonder about the long term potential of the wii. Just because its sold out everywhere 1 month from its launch isn't the indication of AWESOME HIT SUCCESS that nintendo fans would have you think it is. What happens 6 months from now when all the hardcores stop clamoring for the system?

And is it really that great of a thing that Nintendo is going after the "everyone else" market? The reason they are going for that demo is because they havent done a very good job going after the "gamers" that sony and MS are after. See n64, gamecube.

Also, yeah, ive seen the marketing. Are the 'non gamers' really buying into the system?Ive seen the old couple playing the wii on the commercials, i've seen the attractive young ladies playing the wii on the commercials. But who do I see talking up the wii, camping out for the wii, and walking away with the wii? The typical gamer dude-person.

All of these make me wonder. This gen won't be nearly as lopsided as the previous two were, but I have a hard time imagining Nintendo NOT coming in 3rd place again.

I realize all of this has probably already been said but there, i said it anyways.

 

[leehom]

M$ said this because they know their going to be last this generation. Xbotx am cry.
Thats so retarted. At first M$ wanted everyone to buy the Wii, now their trying to deter potential buyers.

 

[Monk]

And is it really that great of a thing that Nintendo is going after the "everyone else" market? The reason they are going for that demo is because they havent done a very good job going after the "gamers" that sony and MS are after. See n64, gamecube.

Also, yeah, ive seen the marketing. Are the 'non gamers' really buying into the system?Ive seen the old couple playing the wii on the commercials, i've seen the attractive young ladies playing the wii on the commercials. But who do I see talking up the wii, camping out for the wii, and walking away with the wii? The typical gamer dude-person.

All of these make me wonder. This gen won't be nearly as lopsided as the previous two were, but I have a hard time imagining Nintendo NOT coming in 3rd place again.

This is the DS argument all over again. But imo things are more impressive on the Wii in the first few months rather than the DS. It has more alternative content than the DS has like the weather channel, Wii sports, News channel, Web browser. Also the Wiimote is far more intuitive and painless than the DS touch screen.

And it has quite a few appealing external qualities that make it OCD female friendly. The size in its vertical position allows it to fit behind my tv and the wireless controls stop then from nagging how messy it is. If it werent for these two things i wouldnt have been able to keep it outside in the living room, the other consoles have been relegated to my bedroom.

So far Nintendo has done everything right so far to appeal to the non gamer crowd.

 

[Monk]

M$ said this because they know their going to be last this generation. Xbotx am cry.
Thats so retarted. At first M$ wanted everyone to buy the Wii, now their trying to deter potential buyers.

Good god, why isnt the term "M$" a bannable offense?