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[JoJo13]

This quote is so backwards. Nowhere did I hear someone bitch about the 120GB hard drive until it was announced at $180. I don't recall anyone complaining about a new revision of the 360 until it was announced that it wasn't 65nm. People were excited about a new 360 before the facts, the facts are what makes the system so lousy.

Bingo.

 

[Eteric Rice]

What annoyed me was that there is no price drop, yet.

Stubborn!

 

[xsarien]

link

Nevermind that the leaks were right about the price, and had some had been flattering about accessories (wifi, 65nm, etc.).

Christonapogostick.gif

65nm isn't a feature, accessory, or something special to the Elite. Chipsets are always getting upgraded, and when the size gets that small it will be instituted across every XBox, from Elite to Retard.

The same goes for the jackass rumors that the Elite would get a DVD drive that ran quieter. Any new drive introduced into the manufacturing of the system would hit every model. It's the fan-bases fault for getting their own hopes up, not Microsoft's for not delivering to heightened expectations.

 

[AdmiralViscen]

Then stop leaking.

Meanwhile, when all we had was a pic of a 360 with HDMI to go on, it couldn't have been better for MS. What sunk Elite was FOUR HUNDRED EIGHTY US DOLLARS.

 

[Mrbob]

Doug Perry of IGN360 ripped MS a new one too in the latest mail bag.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/778/778656p1.html

You, my friend, work for Microsoft. It's quite obvious: The cool, rational voice, the knowledge of the differences between technical jargon, etc. People who write into this column don't sound like you. Thanks for your letter, but your secret and oh-so-evil tone is chiming through loud and clear. Begone with thee demon!!!!

Just kidding (about the demon part). In truth, A) Upgraded Xboxes didn't cost more before; they were just filtered into the retail chain and weren't offered as new, elite, and another alternative. Their presence was invisible.

B) Yes, they should withhold these upgrades to make us feel better!! We feel terrible about being wronged by the evil corporation! Just kidding, sorta.

C) This hasn't been done before with any success because it's part of a gauging mentality. SEGA blew its credibility with the 32X, the Jupiter, and all that nonsense -- yes, they were keeping up with technology, sort of, but at some point gamers wonder where their loyalty and patience is pushed beyond a reasonable point. The whole concept behind consoles is that they aren't PCs; they're supposed to work right out of the box and stay working until another one comes along and properly handles backward compatible games.

D) If you decide to use the PS2 Slim argument, it doesn't work either. That system was not only smaller and sleeker, it came deep into the system's life cycle and it was cheaper; not more expensive.

E) The Elite might provide the HDMI addition and the bigger hard drive, but for those people who bought early, the new system is in many ways what the first system should have been. It's an afterthought at gamers' expense. Yes, it's another "option," and a superior option if you believe that HDMI is better to component cables (which MS said, in fact, is not true), but it is also a mixed message. From the beginning of console history people who have bought consoles generally could afford one console, maybe two because they were kids or college students. Now that gamers represent a larger spectrum of the society -- for instance, I am a 41-year-old gamer and millions of people my age and older play games -- we're earning enough income to afford more "choices." Microsoft bet on this notion when it offered two choices up front and raised the cost of their console above the industry standard console MSRP $299.99, which was the standard for two, even three generations. But while MS is giving us another choice, it's also digging for more money and won't feel ashamed when people who already own one buy another. Sure, it's their choice to buy or not to buy, this choice doesn't make anyone who owns a 360 happy.

It's even more confusing to the consumer, and it sets a new precedent, which puts additional questions into potential consumers' minds. People are already worried about buying a X360 because it might break. That's a legitimate concern. Now, they have three options, but who's to say a fourth one won't come along next year, making the Elite old and crumbly?

My thinking is that while MS might have given us another option, it's told me that I was foolish to by a system early, when in fact, MS was trying to persuade us all along to buy a system early. What's more, and this is the end of my rant, my suspicions are tripled when I look at their warranty record. I mean, the original warranty was for three months. Three months! That's just bogus. And with the high rate of broken systems, which was unofficially above the 3-5% acceptability rate, everyone has to wonder about their ability to make solid, reliable hardware. No one ever worries about Nintendo hardware. Why? They do rigorous testing and earn customer loyalty with quality products. Just look at the amazing group of loyal Nintendo fans. It's sick in one sense, but it's the result of great, reliable products. Neither Sony nor MS will ever get fans like that (and yes, that fandom also exists because of their games. But the perception of solid hardware exists for a real tangible reason: their systems don't break). When Nintendo and Sony came out and they offered a one-year warranty, MS changed its policy to match theirs. I'm a big believer in Microsoft's intelligence and risk taking behavior. I like the Xbox 360 and its beautifully integrated blades and Marketplace and design. I just don't trust Microsoft to look out for my best interests. They're out to make money and a good product, which is fair, but their arrogance and lust for technology and pairing up with Sony all the time, in very real sense, shouldn't come at our expense. I want my $400 console to not break and to not be eclipsed 1.5 years into the cycle.

--Douglass

 

[KINGMOKU]

Doug Perry of IGN360 ripped MS a new one too in the latest mail bag.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/778/778656p1.html

And he nailed it. It makes me, a very potential 360 buyer, wary as hell.

Think about it for a second.

I really want a 360. First a have to choose between two sku's. Second, I want to wait for a price drop becuase the core is not a value as the memory cards are a ridiculous option to a hard drive in storage comparison. Then I have to worry about it breaking. I'm still waiting for a price-drop. Then they come out with a THIRD sku with HDMI. Then, I find out the wifi dongle is 100$.

Its confusing, and it angers me. I just want to buy a 360. One consoles, period, at a reasonable price, and one that wont explode within months, or weeks.

It really, in a sense does remind me of Sega, and I got burned with all that crap bien an owner of a SEAG-CD, 32x, saturn, dreamcast.

Bah. Now I have to wait untill the system is stable, and is cheaper. I may end up getting over a year from now at this rate, and then they might introduce ANOTHER one.

It really is insane.

 

[Krowley]

Actually, i think the perception was hurt because the elite is a bad idea and nobody likes it.

But maybe i'm not "elite" enough to understand the argument.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

All of this negative perception has to have an effect up at Redmond. I swear, it's like this is purely a bean counter sku. Has Peter Moore, Robbie Bach, or Shane Kim been interviewed about this sku? I want to read their input. The perception of the Elite wasn't hurt until they decided to release a $479 Xbox 360 on 90nm. I know they hear the screams of faulty hardware. Thankfully I've never had a problem with my launch unit, but all it takes is one fatal mistake to burn a lot of bridges and undo a lot of goodwill. If this leaked perception was good, word of mouth would have been great for this, but that wasn't the case.

 

[PS360]

From what i can tell it's the price that's hurting the perception. People wonder why MS has made a more expensive SKU, instead of lowering the price of the other two and making the Elite the price of a premium. Moreover, why someone who doesn't want the elite but needs extra HDD space has to fork up almost $200.

Leaks don't HELP i don't think but...definitely exaggerating the negative effect.

 

[xsarien]

The comparison to the 32x is really, really stupid. The Elite, save for HDMI and a bigger HDD, is Just Another 360. There are no Elite-specific games and there never will be. The closest comparison you can - and should - draw is the PS2 if it were bundled with a hard drive that was also available separately. He's right, you can't compare it to the PSTwo. That was a cost-reduction move by taking out components (like the HDD bay) and maximizing the chip miniaturization. The Elite is adding some bells and whistles.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

From what i can tell it's the price that's hurting the perception. People wonder why MS has made a more expensive SKU, instead of lowering the price of the other two and making the Elite the price of a premium. Moreover, why someone who doesn't want the elite but needs extra HDD space has to fork up almost $200.

Leaks don't HELP i don't think but...definitely exaggerating the negative effect.

No, they are full of shit on this one. That is all. Leaks are great when the consumer preceives them to be great. I honestly don't have a clue as to what they are trying to do. I've tried to rationalize this and I can't, I just can't. It's like, have they lost their focus? Who exactly is running the show now? Do they really believe that first to ten million shit they were so quick to tout? I'm a fan of theirs, but they need a reality check and fast. In comparison to most, I do understand the upgrading of a console. That doesn't bother me, raising prices bother me because they are supposed to be going for market share now.

 

[Krowley]

One thing i really hate is that they called it the "elite"

It's such an obnoxious name.. Such an arrogant, annoying name. It almost sends me into a rage.

"this is the exclusive xbox, for the upper crust of society... They can't be bothered with a normal xbox, because they are better than you and they need a giant HDD to store all their awesome downloaded stuff which you can't afford.

Sorry poor gamers, you're not good enough to buy our new console.. Go buy the retard pack instead."

Somebody should kick them right in the nuts!

 

[Dahbomb]

If the info leaked was good.....it wouldn't hurt the perception. There wasn't some mysteriously amazing feature that was left out of the leaked info that proper context woudl have fixed the perception.

QFT. Microsoft hurt themselves by releasing a 3rd more expensive SKU. They just want something else to tag the blame on so that their PR people can start spinning shit.

 

[Mrbob]

Too much choice and the consumer gets confused.

No, they are full of shit on this one. That is all. Leaks are great when the consumer preceives them to be great. I honestly don't have a clue as to what they are trying to do. I've tried to rationalize this and I can't, I just can't. It's like, have they lost their focus? Who exactly is running the show now? Do they really believe that first to ten million shit they were so quick to tout? I'm a fan of theirs, but they need a reality check and fast. In comparison to most, I do understand the upgrading of a console. That doesn't bother me, raising prices bother me because they are supposed to be going for market share now.

MS is too focused on trying to position their product directly against the PS3 instead of blazing their own trail. For as expensive as the PS3, I do slightly admire how sony pretty much asks to give you their beating up front on PS3 hardware with not really any hidden costs. Whereas the X360 is riddled with hidden costs everywhere.

So now MS has their checklist with HDMI. Unfortunately for them they charge a premium for it where HDMI is standard on every PS3. Sony can get the 60GB PS3 down to $499.99 in the next 4 to 6 months it'll really make the X360 elite look pathetic. Even now the elite seems like a bad value versus the 60GB PS3.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Too much choice and the consumer gets confused.




MS is too focused on trying to position their product directly against the PS3 instead of blazing their own trail. For as expensive as the PS3, I do slightly admire how sony pretty much asks to give you their beating up front on PS3 hardware with not really any hidden costs. Whereas the X360 is riddled with hidden costs everywhere.

So now MS has their checklist with HDMI. Unfortunately for them they charge a premium for it where HDMI is standard on every PS3. Sony can get the 60GB PS3 down to $499.99 in the next 4 to 6 months it'll really make the X360 elite look pathetic. Even now the elite seems like a bad value versus the 60GB PS3.

About a bad value, I guess. I don't care about Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. You are right about their mission to take away bulletpoints though. That does appear to be what they are doing though. I know exactly why they are doing this, but you don't throw an expensive model out there to consumers like this. The context about this is that they aren't even saying why it's out there except to knock out a bulletpoint. I know its for more than that, but does the vast majority? No, they don't, nor will most give a damn. If it were 65nm, most probably wouldn't have complained. If it were $400, nobody would have complained. However, they hit the potential consumer with a double whammy.

 

[Deku]

I'm honestly quite surprised MS went through with the whole Elite package the way it has come out. They've been on the ball so far.

The problem with Elite was they tried to outdo Sony's PS3 when they should have been charting their own course after their early successes, at least in North America.

 

[SapientWolf]

From what i can tell it's the price that's hurting the perception. People wonder why MS has made a more expensive SKU, instead of lowering the price of the other two and making the Elite the price of a premium. Moreover, why someone who doesn't want the elite but needs extra HDD space has to fork up almost $200.

Leaks don't HELP i don't think but...definitely exaggerating the negative effect.

The new SKU lowered the customer perceived value on the premium, which was a very shortsighted move. People that want a 360 are now going to wait for the 'Elite' to drop to $400. They lowered demand by raising the price on their goods instead of lowering it.

But their biggest mistake is taking the spotlight away from the games and putting it on the console. They should be subsidizing the hardware as much as possible.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I'm honestly quite surprised MS went through with the whole Elite package the way it has come out. They've been on the ball so far.

The problem with Elite was they tried to outdo Sony's PS3 when they should have been charting their own course after their early successes, at least in North America.

They are, it's just that they are pricing this shit foolishly. Video marketplace is their idea of a next-generation movie format. IPTV is their idea of next-generation television. It's just that they are seemingly price gouging along the way.

 

[Krowley]

They are, it's just that they are pricing this shit foolishly. Video marketplace is their idea of a next-generation movie format. IPTV is their idea of next-generation television. It's just that they are seemingly price gouging along the way.

the price of the HDD is just WOW.. That' the most damaging part of this news IMO, even if it is a fair price for a laptop style HDD. It's just painfully expensive.

 

[xsarien]

They are, it's just that they are pricing this shit foolishly. Video marketplace is their idea of a next-generation movie format. IPTV is their idea of next-generation television. It's just that they are seemingly price gouging along the way.

Video Marketplace is much better suited to digital movie rentals. To be quite honest, any kind of ownership, as far as I'm concerned, would require some kind of physical media. Hard drives don't last forever, systems crash, and recovering lost movies that you've bought and paid for and downloaded just becomes an extra hoop that you don't really need to deal with.

 

[GhaleonEB]

They are, it's just that they are pricing this shit foolishly. Video marketplace is their idea of a next-generation movie format. IPTV is their idea of next-generation television. It's just that they are seemingly price gouging along the way.

They should have just waited to introduce this until they could drop the price. The entire introduction is such a cluster****. :\

Back to the OP - in it (and the podcast) the effect of leaks they are describing are accurate - small, piecemeal leaks sans full context can be bad for every one. But in this case we knew:

-price of the system
-color of the system
-primary new features of the system (HDD, HDMI)
-release timeframe
-price of the seperate HDD

We HAD the full context, which is why the announcement was so stupid. Hell, even the name is poorly thought through, since it establishes that one SKU is superior to the other, rather than simply aimed at different groups of people.

 

[soco]

Video Marketplace is much better suited to digital movie rentals. To be quite honest, any kind of ownership, as far as I'm concerned, would require some kind of physical media. Hard drives don't last forever, systems crash, and recovering lost movies that you've bought and paid for and downloaded just becomes an extra hoop that you don't really need to deal with.

while i agree about the physical medium, in this case, you can just re-download everything you had. once you've bought it, you "own" it so long as the service exists for the Xbox.

it's probably not long until you'll be able to take those purchases and transfer them to a windows based PC or your zune or other things. (can you do zune already?)

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Video Marketplace is much better suited to digital movie rentals. To be quite honest, any kind of ownership, as far as I'm concerned, would require some kind of physical media. Hard drives don't last forever, systems crash, and recovering lost movies that you've bought and paid for and downloaded just becomes an extra hoop that you don't really need to deal with.

Microsoft is the software company, that is why they are doing it this way.

 

[Nightstick11]

What are you talking about? The system came out 18 months ago. They are allowed to upgrade the specs over time. Do TV and stereo owners complain when a new model comes out?

What is wrong with you?

Do you LIKE when you buy a system for 400 dollars and the company announces a new one not even 2 years later with a few bells and whistles and a fresh coat of paint and yells "SURPRISE!"?

I don't understand Xbots sometimes. I was burned with the Xbox at launch, and it wasn't even a year later before Microsoft slashed the price and packed in 2 free games. Not to mention the whole killing off the Xbox artificially thingie.

Now what is this crap? The company pulls a stupid surprise like this and you're actually defending them?

 

[Borys]

i can't tell you how glad i was to hear that the 120gb hdd would be sold separately for the very reasonable price of $179.99

Heh, good one.

 

[GhaleonEB]

What is wrong with you?

Do you LIKE when you buy a system for 400 dollars and the company announces a new one not even 2 years later with a few bells and whistles and a fresh coat of paint and yells "SURPRISE!"?

I don't understand Xbots sometimes. I was burned with the Xbox at launch, and it wasn't even a year later before Microsoft slashed the price and packed in 2 free games. Not to mention the whole killing off the Xbox artificially thingie.

Now what is this crap? The company pulls a stupid surprise like this and you're actually defending them?

None of the changes impact most users. HDMI and 100 extra gigs of HDD space are not useful to most owners. (Hell, I still have 8 gigs free.) Nothing about the new SKU invalidates the Premium or reduces the value of it at all. There *is* no burn. What it does is confuse future customers by presenting them with an expensive and confusing set of options.

And stop tossing out labels for ****s sake.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

The fact that it's called the Elite is an insult to the word. I don't really care if they include HD DVD or not since it'll be a dead format by next year.

What I wanted was HDMI 1.3.

 

[jax (old)]

I don't think the leaks hurt it. I think the actual specs + what's in the elite hurt it more.


and oh, their new HD is stinky overpriced.

 

[TurtleSnatcher]

Confused.. what was leaked.. the GI issue?

 

[xsarien]

What is wrong with you?

Do you LIKE when you buy a system for 400 dollars and the company announces a new one not even 2 years later with a few bells and whistles and a fresh coat of paint and yells "SURPRISE!"?

Welcome to the world of consumer electronics. Over to your right you'll see the iPod, the Game Boy, the Nintendo DS, and to the left every computer ever made.

Nothing about the Elite makes your premium 360 obsolete, what is so damned hard to understand about that? HDMI and extra hard drive space can't possibly be that important to any rational human being.

 

[FightyF]

If this was a case were the rumours over-promised, and reality under-delivered...then yes, he has a point.

But the Elite is another story. Another SKU to confuse customers with, lack of built in wireless, and half assed HDMI all demonstrate that the Elite was a poor concept from the beginning.

That was a great blog entry by Doug Perry.

 

[Diatribe1974]

Had Microsoft decided to release things like this when the Elite comes out:

Core: 199$
Premium: 299$
Elite: 399$

We'd not be having these discussions over the "Did the leaks hurt the perception...." topics at all.

But they kept the price up there on everything & so we do. Even I, a big M$ supporter, am rather dumbfounded as to why they're sticking to their guns such as they are.

D.

 

[JCBossman]

If MS did what everyone here is Bitching about, add an HDDVD,add built in wireless,the 120gbHD,hdmi, you would have a $599 ELITE? Is that what you want? I think the Elite is a hell of a 360 and by dropping prices across the board a small amount(especially the premium) everything would be golden, Ok and change the HDMI to 1.3 Spec. THIS IS NOT a disaster, just needs a bit of price tweaking.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

If MS did what everyone here is Bitching about, add an HDDVD,add built in wireless,the 120gbHD,hdmi, you would have a $599 ELITE? Is that what you want? I think the Elite is a hell of a 360 and by dropping prices across the board a small amount(especially the premium) everything would be golden, Ok and change the HDMI to 1.3 Spec. THIS IS NOT a disaster, just needs a bit of price tweaking.

My only gripe is the pricing. HD-DVD is NOT, I repeat, NOT in Microsoft's forecast. That competes directly with their download service on Live. They would not put their competitor in there. $399 this bitch and watch the money roll in.

 

[Nightstick11]

Welcome to the world of consumer electronics. Over to your right you'll see the iPod, the Game Boy, the Nintendo DS, and to the left every computer ever made.

Nothing about the Elite makes your premium 360 obsolete, what is so damned hard to understand about that? HDMI and extra hard drive space can't possibly be that important to any rational human being.

Wtf does the Ipod or the PC have to do with consoles? And the DS Light was announced two years after the original, and it was hardly $400.

There is one thing that pisses the hell out of me about the Elite, and that is the goddamned 120gb hard drive. I'm down to 3 gigs on my X360 and I know it won't last 3 or 4 more years. They either a) should have made the hardware "complete" like every respectable console-maker from the beginning or b) not flip us the bird by selling us a 120gb hard drive for 180 bucks. That's just an insult.

 

[StopMakingSense]

All the information that was in the leak was the stuff that's good for Microsoft. The official announcement came with the price, and that's what hurt them.

I agree completely, all the negative perception came after their official announcement and the price.

 

[Manp]

“For the Elite, for example, people were talking about the functionality and had pictures and all this stuff, but they didn't have the full story. They didn't know the price, they didn't know the accessories, they didn't know additional information that really puts a lot of context and a lot of information behind it,” commented Wolf. “The reason why it's bad is because then you lose all the context. You lose all the facts that back it up, so that people hear the story once, understand it, and move forward, as opposed to hearing things bit by bit, piece by piece.”

and now that they have the context they're even more pissed for the whole HDMI fiasco

 

[JCBossman]

Ok for the record: 50% of the people are upset because, they couldn't buy this at launch and now they feel they own a 'tard.
50% are pissed because they feel either the 120gb hard drive and/or the Elite console itself is overpriced(by some arbitrary amount $50,100,179)
and 100% are pissed it didn't include features they would like to have had,(racing stripes, wireless, waggle,super audio,combo HDDVD/Blueray drive,a bread slicer)

 

[Diatribe1974]

^ No bread slicer?

Junk!

D.

 

[Burai]

The real problem with the Elite is that it's completely unneccessary.

They clearly designed it to compete on an equal footing with the PS3 and as we've seen from the spy shots on Xbox-scene and its ilk, it's been in development since at least late last summer.

In the meantime it turned out that Sony's high-end tactic was catastrophically misguided, and it's not the all-dominating force that many (including many inside Microsoft it would seem) predicted it would be.

So what you've got now is Microsoft releasing a high-end version of their product which competes with a PS3 that nobody even wants in the first place.

The negativity stems from the fact that Microsoft were first to market and should be dictating the market and setting the standard that Nintendo and Sony should be trying to follow, when in actual fact all they are doing is backtracking on everything and trying to bolt-on all of their competitors features afterwards and passing on additional cost to the consumer or leaving them completely left out in the cold.

It makes them look weak and makes the product a risky proposition to potential buyers.

They've gone back on so many promises that you have to wonder whether the Premium will even be enough to get us through this generation. What happens when they decide that games DO need more than DVD9? Or they want to start distributing episodic content? Or that we need motion sensing controllers with next-gen rumble tech?

 

[USD]

I think that the console is selling for $480 just cements the fact that the 360 isn't going to have a price drop anytime soon. Personally I was expecting it, but this pretty much cements the fact the 360 won't have a real price drop until around late fall. Maybe some bundling before then, but that's at the most.

 

[DrXym]

Why would a regular person possibly interested in upgrading their 360 be interested in 65nm?

I would be if owned one and it meant smaller power brick, less heat, less noise and less power consumption. I was rather disappointed that my EU PS3 was still 90nm.

 

[dakiparu]

I would be if owned one and it meant smaller power brick, less heat, less noise and less power consumption. I was rather disappointed that my EU PS3 was still 90nm.

exactly! Since I bought my Ps3 I really realized how noisy is my white xbox360 so that when the news of a black,sexier and quiter/reliable xbox360 started spreading I thought to sell mine (well to be honest it is the fourth since the first 3 went back to Germany with red rings..) to get the new one. Now that I know the true about Elite I am pretty sure it will fail since there is no noise reduction, power adaptor is still a huge beast and it will brick as usually. So where the point to spend more money for the same thing? AH! the 120 Gb HDD!!! LOL! Nice marketing MS! Nice marketing! Sony is sooooo worried now! :lol

 

[BigDug13]

I think the problem is that Microsoft wants to have people using their downloadable service for media, so that means they need to get harddrive space to their users fast. Pricing themselves out of the market does not promote use of their live service.

Their "elite" which is anything but, just slows down that adoption, as they continue to overcharge for space to let you download content.

HDMI also isn't that important, unless they now plan to disallow HD downloadable content to be viewed over component because they're scared you'll copy it to a computer. But that would be a disastrous move against those other 10 million 360 owners who were told that having a component connection wouldn't be an issue for at least another 5 years.

 

[dzukela]

Actually for the price, a lack of a next gen DVD format hurts it worse.

yes, we all know that.
Resistance >>>>>> Gears of War
Splinter Cell PS3 >>>>>> Splinter Cell x360
...



wait!!!

 

[FightyF]

Good post Burai, I agree.

If MS did what everyone here is Bitching about, add an HDDVD,add built in wireless,the 120gbHD,hdmi, you would have a $599 ELITE? Is that what you want? I think the Elite is a hell of a 360 and by dropping prices across the board a small amount(especially the premium) everything would be golden, Ok and change the HDMI to 1.3 Spec. THIS IS NOT a disaster, just needs a bit of price tweaking.

What the market needed was a larger hard-drive, HDMI support, and more reliable hardware. It didn't need another SKU.

They could have released a proprietary HDMI cable and the 120Gb HDD separately.

They could have waited until the Fall to release 65nm 360s (both core and premium) with a built in HDMI port (so you can use any HDMI cable).

If people wanted a 120Gb 360, just buy the core (which is now not a useless SKU) with the separate 120 HDD. It could even be an MS endorsed retail package with a reduced price, specifically targeted for those who want to download movies.

But now you have 3 different machines, all apparently with the same unreliable hardware design, one with half assed HDMI, and 3 different names to confuse consumers with.

As a 360 owner (I have 2) with many games, with Live, and one who is enjoying it quite a bit, I would never recommend the Elite to anyone. One of my 360s died, and so I know first hand how unreliable the hardware is. On the other hand, I do suggest the console over the PS3, because it has a lot of things going for it, and of course it has a killer line up of games. But I can only recommend it if they came out with the new 65nm 360s. Only then will I know that whoever I'm suggesting it to will never be disappointed (I would hate for their console to crap out a year and a half into it's lifespan).

If MS went the way I suggest, it would be a lot more elegant, a lot more friendly to retailers, doesn't require any new training for staff to sell it, give the consumer the same amount of choice, and provide the market with reliable machines.

All I have is anecdotal evidence, but from my perspective an unbelievable amount of people are sold on the 360 at the moment, but don't want to buy it because it's unreliable.

 

[Norse]

Wow, What a Drama Queen, so let me get this straight? For $80 you get 6 times the storage, a cool black color and Hdmi port and cable, and that is a Rip off? If ANYTHING is a ripoff its now the old premium,unfortunately.This would be fine with a cut to the current premium of $50 and cut to the core of $25 and this Elite being $450

doesnt say its a rippoff anywhere in that post....but considering what ms already had on the market, its a sku they shouldnt have made. They should have just released a 120 gig hdd and added the hdmi to the premium and I think most out there would have been happy. For 20 dollars more and a shitload of luck, you could get a ps3 that includes a bluray player.

 

[Pureauthor]

link

Nevermind that the leaks were right about the price, and had some had been flattering about accessories (wifi, 65nm, etc.).

It is my decided opinion that it was the Elite that hurt the perception of the Elite.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

My only gripe is the pricing. HD-DVD is NOT, I repeat, NOT in Microsoft's forecast. That competes directly with their download service on Live. They would not put their competitor in there. $399 this bitch and watch the money roll in.

The HD-DVD is not in their forecast for yet another reason. And that is the uncertainty of it's future. Putting a dead format in their console would be ridiculous and they know it. Not that I'm saying that HD-DVD is dead.

 

[DrXym]

The HD-DVD is not in their forecast for yet another reason. And that is the uncertainty of it's future. Putting a dead format in their console would be ridiculous and they know it. Not that I'm saying that HD-DVD is dead.

I think the writing is on the wall for HD-DVD.

Given that, it is smart for MS not to bother with the format. After all, it isn't like games would benefit from the extra storage capacity anyway unless MS introduced some funky triple layer hybrid for the benefit of people with HD-DVD drives.