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Must I Get a Flu Shot? (NYT)

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entremet

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This is from The Ethicist, a column in the NYT Magazine which deals with, you guessed it, topics of right and wrong.

Thought is this would interesting given the vocal opinions in previous flu threads.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/m...html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&_r=0

The calculus of getting a flu shot is pretty straightforward: If I don’t, I could get sick — and potentially get a bunch of other people sick too. I work in an open-air office, eat in crowded restaurants and take the subway. But here’s the thing: I don’t want a flu shot. I don’t feel right about it. My mother, an M.D., who now practices alternative medicine, was — and is — anti-vaccine. Like a kid inheriting his parents’ faith, I grew up with a strong sense of that value system. Am I ethically obligated to get a flu shot? BEN REININGA, NEW YORK

This will seem like a lame response, but it’s the only one I can give. Should you get a flu shot? Yes. It’s more socially responsible, and thus more ethical (relative to doing the opposite). But are you obligated to do so? You are not.

It’s one thing to directly put others in harm’s way (like entering a crowded workplace when you know you’re already sick). But your question is different. Your question involves a potentiality. It’s certainly possible that not getting a flu shot could affect other people, but that possibility is not even close to absolute. And it’s just not reasonable to make every personal decision based on what might theoretically happen to a stranger. You’re a person, too. You have the right to decide what’s injected into your body. Personal freedom is not limitless, but it certainly extends to the elective medical procedures you choose for yourself. If those around you are worried that you’ll infect them with the flu, they should get their own flu shots (simply because people who view the world through your lens clearly do exist).
 
My mother, an MD who practices alternative medicine...

Off to a strong start.

The response is pretty level and reasonable.
 
I like how many Asian cultures practice wearing masks to prevent the spread of their germs when going out in public. I even see Asians at my campus do it. This is something I really think our society ought to start doing.
 
Why is that that a few years ago in NYC, it seems that they only wanted the elderly and young to get the vaccine?

-Now the facists want everyone to get the vaccine?
 
I got a flu shot for the first time ever (I'm 33) because of my infant daughter...I shook uncontrollably later that night from severe chills. It was fucking crazy!

Had a slight fever the next morning and then it went away. Crazy shit.
 
If you're working with people who could face extreme complications from flu, like small children or the elderly, then yes, I'd say you should quit being an idiot and get a damn flu shot. The excuse that its ok to be a walking fomite since everyone else around you should have gotten vaccinated is lame, since you could still end up infecting others and getting other people sick, even if they were vaccinated.

I got a flu shot for the first time ever (I'm 33) because of my infant daughter...I shook uncontrollably later that night from severe chills. It was fucking crazy!

Had a slight fever the next morning and then it went away. Crazy shit.

That's simply your body developing an immune response as expected, not you getting "sick" from the shot like so many people think. That's a good thing!
 
My mother, an MD who practices alternative medicine...

Off to a strong start.

The response is pretty level and reasonable.

First post nailed it. I get a flu shot every year and so does my wife and we work as nurses. Not only does it just plain make sense, its also being socially responsible.

Put it this way: If you were a patient at a hospital, with some form of critical illness or post-op care of some form, how would you like it if your RN/MD/whoever came in with the flu? And they were the ones responsible for taking care of you?

Now imagine being a waiter at a restaurant, or a cashier at a store, or whatever. The same applies. You will talk to people who you can make sick very easily. Bottom line, if you're sick stay home, if you're healthy get a flu shot and practice good hygiene.

It's good for everybody.
 
I get a flu shot every year because I live in society.
 
Its mandatory for hospital staff to get the flu shot now. I'm around people with the flu all the time and I haven't caught it yet.
 
I like how many Asian cultures practice wearing masks to prevent the spread of their germs when going out in public. I even see Asians at my campus do it. This is something I really think our society ought to start doing.


Psh no offence but if people would fucking wash their hands and cover there mouths then people wouldn't even have to wear a mask. Most people or the average person is just nasty.
 
I like how many Asian cultures practice wearing masks to prevent the spread of their germs when going out in public. I even see Asians at my campus do it. This is something I really think our society ought to start doing.
I recall reading that those masks do little to prevent the spread of viruses and germs. They're a nation-wide placebo.
 
Never had one. Never had the flu. I am all for vaccinations but not vaccinations which may or may not work and you need to get every year. I need a tetanus shot every 10 years. That is something I can work with.
 
Psh no offence but if people would fucking wash their hands and cover there mouths then people wouldn't even have to wear a mask. Most people or the average person is just nasty.

I recall reading that those masks do little to prevent the spread of viruses and germs. They're a nation-wide placebo.

Hmm so maybe they don't work. But people are indeed gross when it comes to considering those around them.
 
Flu shots? I didn't even bother getting one when the swine-flu was over here.

Granted I did come down with a particularily nasty form of flu, but it only lasted a week. Haven't had a flu since! Only minor colds.
 
Why is that that a few years ago in NYC, it seems that they only wanted the elderly and young to get the vaccine?

-Now the facists want everyone to get the vaccine?

Elderly, young and those with existing conditions have the highest chance to be killed by the flu.


Since it's especially nasty now having everyone getting a vaccine reduces the chances of it spreading to those high risk individuals who haven't / didn't / couldn't get one.
 
I'm going to try it again next year. The last time I had one, I was sick for 2-3 days afterwards. But a couple days of sickness may be worth it. We'll see.
But I agree with the statement that you "should" get one although it's completely your choice.
 
Wasn't there a GAF thread a while ago about a correlation between the swine flu vaccine (or some other one) and increased symptom from other flu viruses?
 
Never had one. Never had the flu. I am all for vaccinations but not vaccinations which may or may not work and you need to get every year. I need a tetanus shot every 10 years. That is something I can work with.
The flu shot always works. The problem is when it is not effective against a prominent strain.
 
There's no reason for most normal healthy people to get one really.

Mr.Inaccurate

For 3 reasons:
1. Carriers that don't get sick ultimately pass it on to children, elderly, and immune compromised and kill them.
2. Some flu strains kill more healthy young adults than teens or middle aged people. Such as that little thing called the 1918 flu pandemic.
3. More carriers = more petri dishes = higher chance of deadly mutation that results in something like the 1918 pandemic.
 
Im not getting a flu shot. I want to save the vaccine for women and children.

That's not how it works, get a flu shot.

There's no reason for most normal healthy people to get one really.

Don't make ignorant posts like this.

Flu shots? I didn't even bother getting one when the swine-flu was over here.

Granted I did come down with a particularily nasty form of flu, but it only lasted a week. Haven't had a flu since! Only minor colds.

The NYT article isn't addressing people in sweden.
 
Yup. Anti-vaccine people should be placed in quarantine, their insane beliefs put other people in danger.

So everyone needs to get the same vaccine in more or less the same time period for it to be effective?

Sounds absolutely impossible.
 
if it is socially unresponsible to not get a flu shot

then why are the flu shots not free?



nope, fuck "society" if it wants me to pay for a flu shot and then try to shame me into doing it when I wont do it
 
So everyone needs to get the same vaccine in more or less the same time period for it to be effective?

Sounds absolutely impossible.

Not everyone, just enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

if it is socially unresponsible to not get a flu shot

then why are the flu shots not free?



nope, fuck "society" if it wants me to pay for a flu shot and then try to shame me into doing it when I wont do it

If you have health insurance they are pretty much always free/covered. It's a very good ROI for an insurance company for ~$25.
 
if it is socially unresponsible to not get a flu shot

then why are the flu shots not free?



nope, fuck "society" if it wants me to pay for a flu shot and then try to shame me into doing it when I wont do it
Do you drive without insurance? Pay taxes? Tip?

Nobody is trying to "shame" you into anything.
 
Why does it seem the flu is worse and worse every year in spite of what I would believe to be wider use and acceptance of the vaccine?

Seriously asking. Maybe it's not actually getting worse, it just seems like it?
 
Why does it seem the flu is worse and worse every year in spite of what I would believe to be wider use and acceptance of the vaccine?

Seriously asking. Maybe it's not actually getting worse, it just seems like it?

Maybe because people have stopped getting it? Or maybe because there have happened to be more virulent strains the last couple of years. I thought this outbreak was covered by the flu shot this year, so imagine how bad it would be without a vaccine.

Flu outbreaks used to kill millions of people. The 2009 flu killed just over 14k.

Why are you skeptical of the efficacy of a vaccine? Seems kind of nutty.
 
I haven't gotten the flu in 10 years. I'd rather not potentially screw that up by getting a vaccine, whatever I'm doing now is working.
 
This is actually the only reason I get the flu shot. I'm reasonably healthy and at my age ... the chances of the flu doing anything beyond getting me out of work and making me miserable for a few days is quite low.

However my parents are elderly, I have a young niece, and a number of my friends also have young children. I don't want to be a vector for flu with people that actually do have to worry about more than simply being ill for a few days.
 
Oh my god. Just get the fucking shot, you selfish pigs.

Yeah, I don't get it. It's like coughing on someone's face in public. Why it's socially acceptable...all of this pseudo science, pseudo news culture maybe.
 
I haven't gotten the flu in 10 years. I'd rather not potentially screw that up by getting a vaccine, whatever I'm doing now is working.

So your plan to avoid getting the flu is not to get flu shots.

eFu5ARs.gif
 
I haven't gotten the flu in 10 years. I'd rather not potentially screw that up by getting a vaccine, whatever I'm doing now is working.

That's really not, not, not how it works.

Clearly the medical community needs to find a better what to communicate what vaccines are and how they work, because normal people hold opinions like the above. That's scary.
 
I haven't gotten the flu in 10 years. I'd rather not potentially screw that up by getting a vaccine, whatever I'm doing now is working.

I get an allergy shot every week. I'm so fucked...

Damn you modern medicine and science, for curing my allergies, damn you!
 
I like how many Asian cultures practice wearing masks to prevent the spread of their germs when going out in public. I even see Asians at my campus do it. This is something I really think our society ought to start doing.
Non-Asians would just take a sick day, and that's better for recovery and not infecting others. Lots of Asian cultures expect you to work even if you are sick.
 
no, it is not selfish to not take the shot unless it is free and offered in a efficient way

I do not want to spend half a day or more out of work or university in a hospital (where there is an increased risk of me getting sick) and pay maybe 100$ or more to take a flu shot that I probably do not need
 
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