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My daughter told me something disturbing recently...

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Horseticuffs

Full werewolf off the buckle
So my oldest daughter happened to mention to me offhandedly the other day that her school's student code of conduct explicitly forbids "Satanic" clothing. Now, I'm not religious at all but Satanism, from what I understand, is one of the more respectable ones. It's empowering and doesn't teach people to feel ashamed for being human. I like that aspect at the very least.

So I'm looking over the district's online code of conduct this morning and, while admittedly a few years old on the website, I see an explicit forbidding of Satanic clothing but nothing forbidding clothing espousing any other religion. That is what is concerning to me. My thinking is that if little Johnny can wear his Bible quote shirt, than little Jenny should be able to wear a shirt with "Hail Satan" on it. To be clear, I don't think either should be allowed to but if Johnny is allowed, so should Jenny be.

Am I being a dick to contact like the ACLU? Now, I'm having my daughter bring me a copy of the most current handbook this evening. If it is still worded to specifically forbid one faith, thus implicitly supporting another, should I seek assistance from the ACLU or the American Humanist Society?

Am I misunderstanding the law? I'm honestly just a layman and that's entirely possible. If my worst fears are confirmed and the wording is still there AND one of these organizations does decide to follow up on this, would I be allowed to do this all anonymously? Hey, I'm a real-ass dude and I know if there's one thing people hate more than a Satanist it's an Atheist. I live in a small town and work with the public, and can't lose my job because I've become that Satan worshipping asshole that's trying to desecrate a cross in the cafeteria befor Christmas break.

This all kind of seems like making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm a very quiet person and don't like to raise my voice, but the separation of church and state is kind of a big deal to me.
 
Give your daughter a shirt with Hail, Satan! and see what happens?

Is this stuff really enforced and a problem? I wouldn't bother with it.
 
Came in expecting something messed up happening.

But this.. Lol. Who cares about Satan bro. Weird that it's even mentioned by the school but you're probably the only person in the world to be upset about this.
 
Is she in a public school?

If she is in a private school, you can't do anything.

If she's public, you can do whatever you want as long as you're okay with any controversy that might blowback on you or your daughter.
 
Horseticuffs said:
Am I being a dick to contact like the ACLU?
Click to expand...

Yes.

Horseticuffs said:
Now, I'm not religious at all but Satanism, from what I understand, is one of the more respectable ones.
Click to expand...

Seriously wtf.


Beyond that, your quest for justice on this could very well create a public backlash against yourself and daughter. Do you want your daughter going through school being heckled as a satan worshiper? You can try to control and force people to follow the law to the letter, but you'll never control public opinion, and it will bite you.
 
I mean, wearing satanic clothing could easily be seen as a direct troll of the christian students. Not defending it btw. Just saying that's probably the reason.
 
Is it a public or private school? If it's the latter, there's really nothing you can do, especially if the school is religiously aligned.

Anyway, yeah, you're well within your rights to contact the ACLU if it's a public school. Just consider whether or not you really want to. Fairness is important, but I'm probably too lazy to really turn something like this into a moral crusade. Maybe you feel differently. This just kinda feels like one of those "Is this really the hill you want to die on" scenarios.
 
Pagusas said:
Yes. Seriously wtf.
Click to expand...

No. Contact the aclu.
Letting religion creep into schools is a problem.

Constitution is inconvenient I know.

Contact the aclu and they may deal with it without outing yourself.

Sunster said:
I mean, wearing satanic clothing could easily be seen as a direct troll of the christian students. Not defending it btw. Just saying that's probably the reason.
Click to expand...

I see Christian imagery as personally offensive. Can I have it banned?

You have a right to be offended. You don't have a right to not be offended.
 
Not sure I'd get real worked up about it, but they're demonstrating a strong pro-Christian bias here (going so far as to say Christianity is so important that other beliefs must be suppressed), which is probably illegal.

Hell, if Trump became president I wouldn't be surprised to see Islamic writing or symbols also forbidden in this specific environment.
 
While it is technically hypocritical and imbalanced, it's not something worth fighting against especially if you don't even have a horse in the specific race.

If it really bothers you, perhaps ask them to reform so all religious clothing minus the clothing required by their religions be banned?

So no Jesus quotes, no Satan quotes, etc... that sounds fair.
 
Fury451 said:
Is she in a public school?
Click to expand...
Yes she is in a public school.

And, guys, I get that the majority are Christian and, as such, people don't bat an eye at this sort of thing. I'm not going to freak out because the dollar says "God" on it, though it shouldn't in my opinion.
 
I agree with your standpoint, however THEY don't see Satanism as just a religion, to them it is pure evil i.e. offensive, I want to kill you and hurt everyone kind of thing.
 
If this is you or your daughters personal way of living or whatever then you could always contact the school and try to have a rational discussion with them. You may be surprised that it could work just fine. If it is not then you are probably stirring up issues over an old dress code that does not even apply to you and maybe leave it to people who actually want to fight that battle because it is important to them. When I was in middle school I remember the had a civil rights lawyer come in and give a talk to the students and due to a few pointed questions from students they had to change some of their rules about these kinds of things. If I remember correctly the new code tried to still get rid of vulgar stuff like crazy metal shirts that happened to have a pentagram on them, but allow people to wear reasonable things.
 
Horseticuffs said:
So my oldest daughter happened to mention to me offhandedly the other day that her school's student code of conduct explicitly forbids "Satanic" clothing. Now, I'm not religious at all but Satanism, from what I understand, is one of the more respectable ones. It's empowering and doesn't teach people to feel ashamed for being human. I like that aspect at the very least.

So I'm looking over the district's online code of conduct this morning and, while admittedly a few years old on the website, I see an explicit forbidding of Satanic clothing but nothing forbidding clothing espousing any other religion. That is what is concerning to me. My thinking is that if little Johnny can wear his Bible quote shirt, than little Jenny should be able to wear a shirt with "Hail Satan" on it. To be clear, I don't think either should be allowed to but if Johnny is allowed, so should Jenny be.

Am I being a dick to contact like the ACLU? Now, I'm having my daughter bring me a copy of the most current handbook this evening. If it is still worded to specifically forbid one faith, thus implicitly supporting another, should I seek assistance from the ACLU or the American Humanist Society?

Am I misunderstanding the law? I'm honestly just a layman and that's entirely possible. If my worst fears are confirmed and the wording is still there AND one of these organizations does decide to follow up on this, would I be allowed to do this all anonymously? Hey, I'm a real-ass dude and I know if there's one thing people hate more than a Satanist it's an Atheist. I live in a small town and work with the public, and can't lose my job because I've become that Satan worshipping asshole that's trying to desecrate a cross in the cafeteria befor Christmas break.

This all kind of seems like making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm a very quiet person and don't like to raise my voice, but the separation of church and state is kind of a big deal to me.
Click to expand...

Honestly, it's probably to crack down on kids who wear violent / graphic metal band t-shirts because they're edgy. "Satanic" probably doesn't mean the religion in this context. Probably some overlap in iconography though.

(Also there is a lot of misinformation surrounding Satanism, which also probably caused the wording as such)
 
boiled goose said:
No. Contact the aclu.
Letting religion creep into schools is a problem.

Constitution is inconvenient I know.

Contact the aclu and they may deal with it without outing yourself.



I see Christian imagery as personally offensive. Can I have it banned?

You have a right to be offended. You don't have a right to not be offended.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to defend it. Just stating the argument I'm sure they'll make.
 
Lmao Satanism is a legit thing? Thought it's just a scare mongering tactic from Christians and a way to label bad bad guys.
 
Horseticuffs said:
Yes she is in a public school.

And, guys, I get that the majority are Christian and, as such, people don't bat an eye at this sort of thing. I'm not going to freak out because the dollar says "God" on it, though it shouldn't in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Honestly it sounds like a policy holdover from a long time ago- probably not singling out Satanism but rather inappropriate clothing that some people would view as "satanic" or some such. The term as its used here seems undefined and it's why I'm inclined to think they're not intentionally singling out a religion or belief system.

I would contact the school first and open a dialogue with them, they may be willing to quietly amend it. Bringing in the ACLU if you feel like you need to is fine, but that's going to be a lot bigger of a deal.
 
Horseticuffs said:
So my oldest daughter happened to mention to me offhandedly the other day that her school's student code of conduct explicitly forbids "Satanic" clothing. Now, I'm not religious at all but Satanism, from what I understand, is one of the more respectable ones. It's empowering and doesn't teach people to feel ashamed for being human. I like that aspect at the very least.

So I'm looking over the district's online code of conduct this morning and, while admittedly a few years old on the website, I see an explicit forbidding of Satanic clothing but nothing forbidding clothing espousing any other religion. That is what is concerning to me. My thinking is that if little Johnny can wear his Bible quote shirt, than little Jenny should be able to wear a shirt with "Hail Satan" on it. To be clear, I don't think either should be allowed to but if Johnny is allowed, so should Jenny be.

Am I being a dick to contact like the ACLU? Now, I'm having my daughter bring me a copy of the most current handbook this evening. If it is still worded to specifically forbid one faith, thus implicitly supporting another, should I seek assistance from the ACLU or the American Humanist Society?

Am I misunderstanding the law? I'm honestly just a layman and that's entirely possible. If my worst fears are confirmed and the wording is still there AND one of these organizations does decide to follow up on this, would I be allowed to do this all anonymously? Hey, I'm a real-ass dude and I know if there's one thing people hate more than a Satanist it's an Atheist. I live in a small town and work with the public, and can't lose my job because I've become that Satan worshipping asshole that's trying to desecrate a cross in the cafeteria befor Christmas break.

This all kind of seems like making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm a very quiet person and don't like to raise my voice, but the separation of church and state is kind of a big deal to me.
Click to expand...


biggums.png
 
Nappuccino said:
Honestly, it's probably to crack down on kids who wear violent / graphic metal band t-shirts because they're edgy. "Satanic" probably doesn't mean the religion in this context. Probably some overlap in iconography though.

(Also there is a lot of misinformation surrounding Satanism, which also probably caused the wording as such)
Click to expand...

This very much. The late 90's/early 2000's were rife with shock rock type stuff and lead to a lot of schools trying to cover it all with Satanism.
 
_illmatic_ said:
I agree with your standpoint, however THEY don't see Satanism as just a religion, to them it is pure evil i.e. offensive, I want to kill you and hurt everyone kind of thing.
Click to expand...
Yeah but they see other things as bad and evil as well, like being gay.

Should anything gay be banned too so that Christians aren't offended?

Why do Christians get special treatment when they literally try and prevent the rights of others? It's bullshit
 
Ironically Supporting Fascism Is Cool Bro said:
Satanism doesn't have tax exempt status so don't expect to be protected on religious freedom grounds
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Have any court rulings said that religions need tax exempt status for religious protections?

I would be surprised because that's the government deciding what is and isn't a religion.

_illmatic_ said:
I agree with your standpoint, however THEY don't see Satanism as just a religion, to them it is pure evil i.e. offensive, I want to kill you and hurt everyone kind of thing.
Click to expand...

I personally believe Christian doctrine is disgusting and immoral.

See how both opinions are irrelevant regarding religious freedom?
 
You all make good points. I don't need to be found stabbed to death in some bush over this or something, and I don't want to get my daughter stigmatized.

If I do end up bringing this before an organization I'll see what my options are for staying anonymous.
ItIsOkBro said:
This thread is too edgy for me.
Click to expand...
I'm not an edgy teenager shopping at Hot Topic. I'm a dude rapidly approaching his forties that doesn't want to have his tax dollars spent to support religion. I'm not listening to heavy metal and burning down churches or yelling at my step dad for not getting the fastest tier internet here.

I'm about as far from edgy as you can get.
 
eFKac said:
Lmao Satanism is a legit thing? Thought it's just a scare mongering tactic from Christians and a way to label bad bad guys.
Click to expand...

It is for some, yes.

It's small, and I'd imagine something people follow personally much more than they do in an organised group. It's generally more about the philosophy from what I remember when I looked into it in my teens (curiosity).
 
Enco said:
Came in expecting something messed up happening.

But this.. Lol. Who cares about Satan bro. Weird that it's even mentioned by the school but you're probably the only person in the world to be upset about this.
Click to expand...

Yeah, he's literally the only person in the world who is upset about this.

I wouldn't be happy too if only 1 religion was being singled out.

Thorgal said:
So I guess I'll be the first to ask: what qualifies as "Satanic" clothing?
Click to expand...

It probably just means like metal t-shirts. Like going into school with a Cradle of Filth - 'Jesus is a cunt' t-shirt, and not actual Satanic. If that's the case, they need to change the wording.
 
Horse, being your brother, if you do this, I will forever accuse you of being a helicopter mom. You need to learn to pick your fights and this just isn't worth it. Anyways, I'm pretty sure there would be something in that code of conduct about not being able to wear any clothing that distracts from learning envirnoment, which I am pretty sure a Hail Satan shirt would. Just let it go helicopter mom!
 
Razmos said:
Yeah but they see other things as bad and evil as well, like being gay.

Should anything gay be banned too so that Christians aren't offended?

Why do Christians get special treatment when they literally try and prevent the rights of others? It's bullshit
Click to expand...

True, and I don't agree with it whatsoever. I just think and I could be wrong 100% on this, but when they say Satanism they aren't literally meaning the religion. They are more or less saying no killing, blood, edgy sort of clothing.

IMO, if there is a Satanic group that could support your view and fight for it go ahead. Me not being religious I wouldn't open that can of worms.
 
I think it's just something that stuck on from a long time ago. Back in highschool kids would wear shirts with the pentagram and other things that may be deemed "satanic" but no one ever gave a shit.
 
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