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My impassioned plea to GAF: Please vote "No" on Prop 8. Please.

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Bebpo said:
Because people refuse to accept others who are not like them? This country is full of people secretly scared of the "others".
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It's bizarre though, even my humanitarian -- does community service every chance he gets -- Athiest (College graduate and highly Liberal) friend is for it. He's the sort of person I'd expect to fight for human rights...
 
harSon said:
It's bizarre though, even my humanitarian -- does community service every chance he gets -- Athiest (College graduate and highly Liberal) friend is for it. He's the sort of person I'd expect to fight for human rights...
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I think it's the "ick" factor. Straight guys, at least about sex, tend to be arrogant, and over value what other people think of their appearance. They tend to be (on average) more likely to fear that a gay guy is going to "want" them, and in fact be unable to control themselves, but what REALLY gets them is the idea that any man might theoretically possibly be fantasizing about sliding a nice 10.5 inch penis up their well lubed anus.

Of course, that's not true of every straight guy, but that's true of a lot of the opponents of gay marriage, at least, that's the underlying fear.
 
AtticusFinch said:
In these cultures pedophilia was also widely accepted. Does that mean pedophilia should also be acceptable in our society? The point is you cannot practically apply these ancient cultural norms to our society. We are not the Romans; We are not the Greeks; We are Americans in the 21st century. We share some commonalities with these civilizations, but verbatim cultural norms cannot, and should not, be translated into our society.
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Funny, I think that's a great argument for why we shouldn't let Christianity dictate our civil liberties.

(Also, you know, Christians and Jews in Biblical times were marrying 14 year olds, too)

Earthstrike said:
I think you're missing the point of why he said that. He wasn't saying that "Because the greeks had it was okay", he was saying it to indicate that the argument "Marriage has always been this way and should remain this way" is incorrect with respect to history. His statement was not arguing for marriage, it was pointing out the error of reasoning in a common anit gay-marriage argument.

In no way can an argument being used in that fashion imply that we would also have to accept pedophilia since it wasn't the function of his argument to say "We should hold ourselves to the standards of ancient civilization".
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Exactly. The argument isn't that "Because the Greeks did it - it's OK," it's that the notion that marriage as a tradition is not historically necessarily religious.
 
as much as i want to jokingly say i'd vote yes just to be a complete and utter asshole for, well, the sake of being a complete and utter asshole, in my heart i know that gay couples should have the same rights as straight couples.

a lot of my christian friends are against gay marriage because they say that according to the bible, homosexuality is a sin. i say according to the bible, judgement is reserved for the Lord, so who am I to say what another human can and cannot do? isn't everyone entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

but hey, what do i know, right?
 
Here are the statistics from the latest SurveyUSA poll:

Overall -
Yes on 8: 48%
No on 8: 45%
Uncertain: 7%

Here are Prop 8 "Survey USA" poll numbers according to race +/- 4%:

White: 48% against gay marriage, 47% support gay marriage
Black: 58% against gay marriage, 38% support gay marriage
Hispanic: 47% against gay marriage, 41% support gay marriage
Asian/Others: 42% against gay marriage, 48% support gay marriage

Chart & Source: http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=0d4fd538-5834-4c18-98c8-6e58da254976
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The AZNs and infamous Others got our back!
 
Zeliard said:
Really no different to your typical GOP ad.
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Yep, the modern GOP is pretty much a bunch of fear mongering religious zealots with no core principles.

btkadams - Grand Ole Party, a nickname for the Republicans.
 
Gaborn said:
Yep, the modern GOP is pretty much a bunch of fear mongering religious zealots with no core principles.

btkadams - Grand Ole Party, a nickname for the Republicans.
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oh i see, sorry i'm canadian so i didn't know. i'm not too knowledgable of american politics.
 
Gaborn said:
woo hoo! sounds like a fun night! :D :D
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rh8hgj.gif

:lol :lol :lol
 
LOCK said:
I wish I could help this cause but I don't live in CA.
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you can always donate.

LOL @ Gaborn. see we are brightening up this depressing thread. actually that's not totally true, there has been many GAFers who have posted that they are voting no and that has definitely kept it positive.
 
Obviously I can't vote, I'm brazilian and I'm in Brazil. But my cousin lives in CA and is an american citizen, next time I talk to her I'll ask her to vote "no". I just want that she doesn't think that I'm gay. :lol
 
btkadams said:
you can always donate.

LOL @ Gaborn. see we are brightening up this depressing thread. actually that's not totally true, there has been many GAFers who have posted that they are voting no and that has definitely kept it positive.
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Absolutely, I'm always pretty optimistic, I think that California is going to vote against it ultimately regardless of the polling. Remember that the polls may very well underrerpesent younger voters who have cell phones but no land lines, and they tend to be more pro-equality.
 
Gaborn said:
I think it's the "ick" factor. Straight guys, at least about sex, tend to be arrogant, and over value what other people think of their appearance. They tend to be (on average) more likely to fear that a gay guy is going to "want" them, and in fact be unable to control themselves, but what REALLY gets them is the idea that any man might theoretically possibly be fantasizing about sliding a nice 10.5 inch penis up their well lubed anus.

Of course, that's not true of every straight guy, but that's true of a lot of the opponents of gay marriage, at least, that's the underlying fear.
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This is what I don't get. Why is it always two men? Does nobody think of two women rubbing their faces in each other tits?

Besides people who cite the "ick" factor have it all wrong. The fastest way to get gay men to stop having sex is to let them get married. Trust me, I'm married, I know.
 
vitaflo said:
This is what I don't get. Why is it always two men? Does nobody think of two women rubbing their faces in each other tits?

Besides people who cite the "ick" factor have it all wrong. The fastest way to get gay men to stop having sex is to let them get married. Trust me, I'm married, I know.
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are you gay? im curious. just wondering the context of your statement.
 
vitaflo said:
This is what I don't get. Why is it always two men? Does nobody think of two women rubbing their faces in each other tits?

Besides people who cite the "ick" factor have it all wrong. The fastest way to get gay men to stop having sex is to let them get married. Trust me, I'm married, I know.
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Women have always on average seen other women as less threatening, even when that women is attracted to them. Men have, in our society, been more powerful, both in terms of muscle mass and social, economic, political power. Straight men have an innate fear being penetrated, they just don't like the thought, it's disturbing to their psyche, their "manhood" if you will.
 
ninj4junpei said:
That's a parody right? God, I hope it is.
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Lolz. No. It's actually a super-effective advertisement. If you were a homophobic Christian, that would get you running to the booth.

And, is that true? There is a book called "king and king" and they taught it in school? I don't care about it or anything, it's just really shocking they would try that. You would get shot if you tried that around these parts. I mean, literally. A person would take a gun and kill you at your house.

EDIT: Okay. I did some research on the book. "King and King."
Kingkiss.jpg


I don't know what to say: If you think it's a sin, you should get your kids in a Christian school. Otherwise, your kids are going to make their own decisions, and you have to respect them.
 
How is this even an argument?

How does one person have any say in who another person marries? How does it affect them?

I know a few gay mates here in the UK, and I think it would be absolutley retarded if I was allowed to marry a chick, whilst they had to sit there and be denied that right, becase they LOVED WRONG.

Get a grip, California.
 
vas_a_morir said:
Lolz. No. It's actually a super-effective advertisment. If you were a homophobic Christian, that would get you running to the booth.

And, is that true? There is a book called "king and king" and they taught it in school? I don't care about it or anything, it's just really shocking they would try that. You would get shot if you tried that around these parts. I mean, literally. A person would take a gun and kill you at your house.
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Though anecdotal, it's not as bad as you make it out to be. I'm from "these parts" (Huntington/Chesapeake area) and am friends with several homosexual people whom I attended high-school with. Little to nothing was said to them about their lifestyle, really.

No guns. No Killing. etc.
 
Brapscallion said:
How is this even an argument?

How does one person have any say in who another person marries? How does it affect them?

I know a few gay mates here in the UK, and I think it would be absolutley retarded if I was allowed to marry a chick, whilst they had to sit there and be denied that right, becase they LOVED WRONG.

Get a grip, California.
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Well, they have some good advertisers. Most people today respect what you just said. So, if you don't, what do you do? You try to convince people that this law would also affect what happens in their own house: I've seen two commercials, both are about kids learning how to be gay in school.

Colonel Mustard said:
Though anecdotal, it's not as bad as you make it out to be. I'm from "these parts" (Huntington/Chesapeake area) and am friends with several homosexual people whom I attended high-school with. Little to nothing was said to them about their lifestyle, really.
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My usage of "these parts" were a little bit of a jab to the redneck mentality. And yes, you are right. H-town and Chesapeake are urban areas. I mean, there are 2 gay clubs in town. However, say you were to go a little south, or a little north, and I think parents would massively pull their kids out of school if something like this happened.
 
vas_a_morir said:
Well, they have some good advertisers. Most people today respect what you just said. So, if you don't, what do you do? You try to convince people that this law would also affect what happens in their own house: I've seen two commercials, both are about kids learning how to be gay in school.
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Really?

Fucking hell. It must be sad to doubt the intelligence of your own country, if people are lapping this shit up.

What a crock of shit. Anyone who even entertains this idea that gay people would affect their way of life in any negative way are oxygen-thieves.

It's bad enough with the term "faggot" being thrown about on XBLA, but this active bigotry is appauling.
 
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