Support NeoGAF

[v0yce]

And there is no evidence that the religious hokum behind their morality is true so we're even I'd say.

If you say so. I would ask that you drop some of the hateful mocking though.

 

[Gaborn]

It should be regulated because it involves the public health. But it shouldn't be illegal, and in some places it's not.

Girls sleeping around with a different guy every night involves the "public health" too but that's not regulated.

 

[btkadams]

Give me a break dude. This is the same thread where people mocked Jesus Christ as a homosexual. You being offended falls a little flat. As does the idea of going off topic. How did talking about the religious beliefs of the founding fathers relate to the topic?

The idea of morality has everything to do with this topic. It answers the question as to "how can these people still think that way" which has been asked about a few dozen times.

how can me being offended fall flat? he was claiming incest to be the same as a homosexual relationship and i found it offensive. it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. why must people keep bringing up arguments.

 

[krypt0nian]

If you say so. I would ask that you drop some of the hateful mocking though.

Yes I do say that there is no evidence that the basis of their belief system is true. So if they can state that that is why they are against sodomites getting full legal rights, then I can make the assertion that JC was a butt loving homo.

Both are baseless and offensive to some.

[

 

[Mercury Fred]

If you say so. I would ask that you drop some of the hateful mocking though.

So, what's your stance on Prop 8?

 

[v0yce]

It should be regulated because it involves the public health. But it shouldn't be illegal, and in some places it's not.

Well I believe that std and mental health disorder rates are higher in homosexuals as well aren't they?

 

[gofreak]

Girls sleeping around with a different guy every night involves the "public health" too but that's not regulated.

I guess home kitchens should fall under government health regulation like restaraunt ones do, too.

Prostitutes are like public commons, I guess ..

(I think the real answer here is that the government's gonna be more inclined to sniffing around where there's money being made, with an eye on tax)

Well I believe that std and mental health disorder rates are higher in homosexuals as well aren't they?

Disease is higher among old people too.

I wonder how we regulate sexuality and age. We really should ask GOD about that, see if he can fix up his production.

 

[krypt0nian]

Well I believe that std and mental health disorder rates are higher in homosexuals as well aren't they?

Here we go. And Alaska has the highest rates of rape and incest.

Now what?

 

[v0yce]

Disease is higher among old people too.

I wonder how we regulate sexuality and age. We really should ask GOD about that, see if he can fix up his production.

Here we go. And Alaska has the highest rates of rape and incest.

Now what?

I'm not the one who brought up public health. =\

 

[Mercury Fred]

I'm not the one who brought up public health. =\

So, let me ask you again, considering you came into a thread entitled "My impassioned plea to GAF: Please vote "No" on Prop 8. Please."

What's your stance on Prop 8?

 

[besada]

Well I believe that std and mental health disorder rates are higher in homosexuals as well aren't they?

I don't know. Are you asserting they are?

Regardless, the state always takes an interest in health-related commerce. In the same way the state makes laws for piercing, manicures, massages, etc, it would make laws regulating sexual commerce.

 

[btkadams]

Well I believe that std and mental health disorder rates are higher in homosexuals as well aren't they?

im not sure of the statistics but it would make a little sense since homosexuals dont have to worry about getting pregnant so it is easier to be negligent of safe sex?

EDIT: wait wtf did not read mental health disorder rates... WHAT?!

unless youre talking about depression which i could agree with.

 

[Giganticus]

Well I believe that std and mental health disorder rates are higher in homosexuals as well aren't they?

mental health disorders...?

are you outta your fucking mind?

 

[Dark Octave]

mental health disorders...?

are you outta your fucking mind?

:lol Do you see what just happened there?

 

[BreakyBoy]

Think of it instead of deciding to eat a banana or some peach cobbler, the person can eat either at any time, or put bananas in peach ice cream with no problems.

:lol I like that analogy. It makes me hungry for some peach cobbler (I realize you are referring to the vagoo, which makes me want even more some peach cobbler).

Oh shit. I love bananas. I can't stand peach cobbler.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO MY WORLD?!

 

[gofreak]

mental health disorders...?

are you outta your fucking mind?

It wouldn't surprise me at all if things like depression and anxiety were more prevalent among gay people..I've no stats, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Perhaps society could start addressing this by looking at its treatment of gay people as a primary cause. The environment gay people find themselves in often isn't particularly friendly.

 

[Shalashaska]

When someone uses religion as a basis to discriminate, mocking said religion is well within the bounds.

Actually, it makes you a hypocrite. And it doesn't make either of you right.

 

[proposition]

It wouldn't surprise me at all if things like depression and anxiety were more prevalent among gay people..I've no stats, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

Perhaps society could start addressing this by looking at its treatment of gay people as a primary cause. The environment gay people find themselves in often isn't particularly friendly.

Depression is indeed higher among homosexuals. At least, among lesbians. I can't remember where I read it but I know I did.

And you can't draw analogy between STDs in gays and health problems in inbreeding. One is caused specifically by the practice. Gay people don't spontaneously burst out in herpes.

 

[v0yce]

So, let me ask you again, considering you came into a thread entitled "My impassioned plea to GAF: Please vote "No" on Prop 8. Please."

What's your stance on Prop 8?

I'm not really sure. I was interested in seeing what the arguments were. I like the idea of removing "marriage" from law all together which should solve all of the "rights" issues. But from reading the thread, its seems like the actual term "marriage" is just as important to a lot of people on both sides. I got engaged in the discussion when I saw that a lot of the arguments from those labeling "bigots" seemed just as poor.

I'm not really sure what you're fishing for but if you're wanting some history I'm a happily married born again christian with a homosexual father-in-law who I like quite a bit. I'd probably vote against as I think social issues should fall on the shoulders of the people for the most part. But I don't live in California.

You guys might get a kick out of an act that's on our Arkansas ballot though.

A Proposed Act Providing That A Minor May Not Be Adopted Or Placed In A Foster Home If The Individual Seeking To Adopt Or To Serve As A Foster Parent Is Cohabiting With A Sexual Partner Outside Of A Marriage Which Is Valid Under The Constitution And Laws Of This State; Stating That The Foregoing Prohibition Applies Equally To Cohabiting Opposite-sex And Same-sex Individuals; Stating That The Act Will Not Affect The Guardianship Of Minors; Defining “minor” To Mean An Individual Under The Age Of Eighteen (18) Years; Stating That The Public Policy Of The State Is To Favor Marriage, As Defined By The Constitution And Laws Of This State, Over Unmarried Cohabitation With Regard To Adoption And Foster Care; Finding And Declaring On Behalf Of The People Of The State That It Is In The Best Interest Of Children In Need Of Adoption Or Foster Care To Be Reared In Homes In Which Adoptive Or Foster Parents Are Not Cohabiting Outside Of Marriage; Providing That The Director Of The Department Of Human Services Shall Promulgate Regulations Consistent With The Act; And Providing That The Act Applies Prospectively Beginning On January 1, 2009.

 

[besada]

You guys might get a kick out of an act that's on our Arkansas ballot though.

It just sort of confirms what everyone thinks about Arkansas already.

 

[Saint10118]

:lol Do you see what just happened there?

:lol was just about to post the same.

 

[Gaborn]

I'm not really sure. I was interested in seeing what the arguments were. I like the idea of removing "marriage" from law all together which should solve all of the "rights" issues. But from reading the thread, its seems like the actual term "marriage" is just as important to a lot of people on both sides.

I'm not really sure what you're fishing for but if you're wanting some history I'm a happily married born again christian with a homosexual father-in-law who I like quite a bit. I'd probably vote against as I think social issues should fall on the shoulders of the people for the most part. But I don't live in California.

That's very fair... although your last point honestly makes no sense. The entire point of prop 8, as I understand it is to give the people the chance to decide this particular social issue.

You guys might get a kick out of an act that's on our Arkansas ballot though.

Although I don't agree with it, I appreciate that proposal 1 applies equally to opposite and same sex couples. Personally I think giving more children the ability to find happy, loving homes is ultimately better for them than rejecting that, but I respect that much of the proposal.

 

[Raistlin]

Well this certainly turned into a ban-trap.


Oh well. I don't live in Cali, so can't vote either way. That said, I see no logical reason for this to pass.

 

[v0yce]

It just sort of confirms what everyone thinks about Arkansas already.

Well since everyone loves the Clintons and Huckabee seems to be the one of the most popular Repubs at the moment, is everyone thinking we make the best lawmakers?

 

[btkadams]

it's getting harder and harder to follow the posts in this thread, and ive read every page.

 

[Gaborn]

Well since everyone loves the Clintons and Huckabee seems to be the one of the most popular Repubs at the moment, is everyone thinking we make the best lawmakers?

*cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* WHAT? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[btkadams]

*cough* *cough* *cough* *cough* WHAT? :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

was about to post that lol

 

[Gaborn]

was about to post that lol

Seriously, I'm a libertarian conservative, I'm NOT a fan of the Clintons (or Bush), I thought EVERYONE knew that.

 

[Mercury Fred]

I'm not really sure what you're fishing for

Well, seeing you coming in swinging with statements about mental health and STDs without bothering to even look up statistics made me wonder why you were in the thread when you hadn't even weighed in the reason for the thread itself. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[v0yce]

That's very fair... although your last point honestly makes no sense. The entire point of prop 8, as I understand it is to give the people the chance to decide this particular social issue.

How do you mean? People deciding through voting?

Although I don't agree with it, I appreciate that proposal 1 applies equally to opposite and same sex couples. Personally I think giving more children the ability to find happy, loving homes is ultimately better for them than rejecting that, but I respect that much of the proposal.

Yeah, the idea of a happy stable home is obviously the best scenario, but I'm pretty sure its just a veiled attempt to keep gay couples from adopting.

 

[Gaborn]

How do you mean? People deciding through voting?

Yep. Although I support marriage equality I respect the democratic process enough to believe that prop 8 (which I would vote against if I was unlucky enough to live in California) is a necessary step to see just where a state is in regards to marriage rights. It gives the people a chance to give Californians marriage equality (by rejecting it) or to leave marriage between a man and a woman as far as the law is concerned.

Yeah, the idea of a happy stable home is obviously the best scenario, but I'm pretty sure its just a veiled attempt to keep gay couples from adopting.

Probably in part, but as long as it applies equally to gay couples and straight couples that are not married I don't have a huge problem with it. Now, if you pulled a Florida ("thank" you Anita Bryant /sarcasm) and specifically refused gay couples the ability to adopt but allowed heterosexual unmarried couples to THEN I'd have a huge problem with it.

 

[dialmydrive]

the argument would go, you can't choose your sex or your ethnicity, or the color of your skin.

But you can choose your sexual orientation.

I hate to break it to those who still think this way, but you cannot choose your sexual orientation (I think you meant preference here, didn't you?). You simply can't. True that some bisexuals smack in the middle of the Kinsey scale can manage it, but true homosexuals cannot.

I don't think I know a single gay man or woman who would choose to be gay. Honestly, not one. We all deserve the same rights and protections afforded to heterosexual, white men and women.

 

[Tarazet]

I don't think I know a single gay man or woman who would choose to be gay. Honestly, not one. We all deserve the same rights and protections afforded to heterosexual, white men and women.

Exactly. Gay pride isn't something you're born with, it's something you acquire only after you've done some serious doubting. The decision to accept homosexuality and turn your back on the possibility of procreation is not something anyone takes lightly, I promise you that.

 

[Terrell]

Exactly. Gay pride isn't something you're born with, it's something you acquire only after you've done some serious doubting. The decision to accept homosexuality and turn your back on the possibility of procreation is not something anyone takes lightly, I promise you that.

sonarrat
Played Skin Flute For X360
(Today, 11:58 AM)

... sorry, couldn't help it.

 

[dialmydrive]

Exactly. Gay pride isn't something you're born with, it's something you acquire only after you've done some serious doubting. The decision to accept homosexuality and turn your back on the possibility of procreation is not something anyone takes lightly, I promise you that.

No gay man or woman turns their back on the possibility of procreation. Gay women are better at faking it than men, and are capable of living a completely miserable life as a trophy heterosexual because all they have to do is lay there and spread their legs, but gay men have no desire to sleep with women and, therefore, cannot procreate.

 

[Saint10118]

Exactly. Gay pride isn't something you're born with, it's something you acquire only after you've done some serious doubting. The decision to accept homosexuality and turn your back on the possibility of procreation is not something anyone takes lightly, I promise you that.

As much as this thought crosses my mind I don't think that I've ever really vocalized it so thanks for bringing that up and its absolutely true that it is something that you do turn you back on and does indeed bear much levity.

 

[Saint10118]

No gay man or woman turns their back on the possibility of procreation. Gay women are better at faking it than men, and are capable of living a completely miserable life as a trophy heterosexual because all they have to do is lay there and spread their legs, but gay men have no desire to sleep with women and, therefore, cannot procreate.

Sex and procreation are not the same. Sex is the act. Procreation is the goal.

 

[dialmydrive]

As much as this thought crosses my mind I don't think that I've ever really vocalized it so thanks for bringing that up and its absolutely true that it is something that you do turn you back on and does indeed bear much levity.

I'm fascinated by close-minded and, perhaps, borderline homophobic responses like this one.

Saying that you can turn your back on heterosexuality in favor of homosexuality is ridiculous. A gay man or woman who has come to accept their sexuality doesn't turn their back on heterosexuality, they simply accept and embrace the fact that they're homosexual.

It's beyond me why homosexuals would even want to be bothered with marriage, because it's not at all what they imagine it is, but at the end of the day all they're really looking for is equal protection under the law. We're all paying fucking outrageous taxes, so if two adults, regardless of gender, want to marry, I'm all for it.

 

[Tarazet]

No gay man or woman turns their back on the possibility of procreation. Gay women are better at faking it than men, and are capable of living a completely miserable life as a trophy heterosexual because all they have to do is lay there and spread their legs, but gay men have no desire to sleep with women and, therefore, cannot procreate.

The example you give is that of a woman going the other way, away from homosexuality. It's the decision that homosexuality is fruitless and that it's more important to perpetuate the species than to feel carnal attraction towards one's partner, which is understandable.

There are two things at work here:

1) Inclination
2) Determination

One can override the other. If you want kids, but feel more attracted to the same sex, then it's a toss-up as to which wins. It may change as you age, too. A gay man may get into his thirties and realize that he really wants to have a family. Or a married man may realize that he's miserable with women and start fooling around. You see the different forms that this struggle can take all over the place.

 

[Love To Love You Baby]

Well I believe that std and mental health disorder rates are higher in homosexuals as well aren't they?

I don't think passing proposition 8 would really help with either.

 

[dialmydrive]

Sex and procreation are not the same. Sex is the act. Procreation is the goal.

ugh ... but a gay man MUST be able to become sexually aroused and maintain an erection long enough to stick his penis into a vagina, and ENJOY it enough to ejaculate into that vagina and procreate.

Call me crazy but not one gay man I know is capable of such a feat.

Get it?

 

[Tarazet]

ugh ... but a gay man MUST be able to become sexually aroused and maintain an erection long enough to stick his penis into a vagina, and ENJOY it enough to ejaculate into that vagina and procreate.

Call me crazy but not one gay man I know is capable of such a feat.

Get it?

With modern science that's a non-issue. Artificial insemination has been around for a long time.

 

[Saint10118]

I'm fascinated by close-minded and, perhaps, borderline homophobic responses like this one.

Saying that you can turn your back on heterosexuality in favor of homosexuality is ridiculous. A gay man or woman who has come to accept their sexuality doesn't turn their back on heterosexuality, they simply accept and embrace the fact that they're homosexual.

It's beyond me why homosexuals would even want to be bothered with marriage, because it's not at all what they imagine it is, but at the end of the day all they're really looking for is equal protection under the law. We're all paying fucking outrageous taxes, so if two adults, regardless of gender, want to marry, I'm all for it.

As a gay man and someone who does indeed want to be extended the same rights as heterosexual couples with my partner of 8 years I would say that you are very much misinterpreting my response.

My response was that at least for me there is a drive to procreate that has nothing to do with having sex with a woman.

 

[besada]

ugh ... but a gay man MUST be able to become sexually aroused and maintain an erection long enough to stick his penis into a vagina, and ENJOY it enough to ejaculate into that vagina and procreate.

Call me crazy but not one gay man I know is capable of such a feat.

Get it?

Really? I know two different gay guys who provided baby batter via direct injection. OneI to help a lesbian couple have a kid, and one whose lesbian friend was carrying the child for him and his partner.

Neither one seemed to have much of a problem with it.

 

[Love To Love You Baby]

The example you give is that of a woman going the other way, away from homosexuality. It's the decision that homosexuality is fruitless and that it's more important to perpetuate the species than to feel carnal attraction towards one's partner, which is understandable.

There are two things at work here:

1) Inclination
2) Determination

One can override the other. If you want kids, but feel more attracted to the same sex, then it's a toss-up as to which wins. It may change as you age, too. A gay man may get into his thirties and realize that he really wants to have a family. Or a married man may realize that he's miserable with women and start fooling around. You see the different forms that this struggle can take all over the place.

I wouldn't say the motivation for the 'determination' factor is procreation in most cases?

 

[dialmydrive]

As a gay man and someone who does indeed want to be extended the same rights as heterosexual couples with my partner of 8 years I would say that you are very much misinterpreting my response.

My response was that at least for me there is a drive to procreate that has nothing to do with having sex with a woman.

Congrats on your relationship! That's fantastic.

 

[Tarazet]

I wouldn't say the motivation for the 'determination' factor is procreation in most cases?

There are different ways that factor could express itself, but in general the flip side of lifelong homosexuality is the traditional family, and procreation by mating is the primary difference.

 

[dialmydrive]

Really? I know two different gay guys who provided baby batter via direct injection. OneI to help a lesbian couple have a kid, and one whose lesbian friend was carrying the child for him and his partner.

Neither one seemed to have much of a problem with it.

Dude, you're so full of shit I can smell it from here. Even IF they could, friends wouldn't fuck each other for the sake of having babies. That's just wrong on so many levels ........ and I'm stumped because I've never - not once - heard of such a thing.

 

[besada]

Dude, you're so full of shit I can smell it from here. Even IF they could, friends wouldn't fuck each other for the sake of having babies. That's just wrong on so many levels ........ and I'm stumped because I've never - not once - heard of such a thing.

I suspect you lead a sheltered life, my friend.

 

[Askani]

Dude, you're so full of shit I can smell it from here. Even IF they could, friends wouldn't fuck each other for the sake of having babies. That's just wrong on so many levels ........ and I'm stumped because I've never - not once - heard of such a thing.

Things don't exist if dialmydrive hasn't heard of it confirmed.