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[FunBoy]

Peer pressure is the way to go it seems that and going out and shopping a young stud to save your sister from him heh.

 

[Instigator]

Is your sister's fiancee Zapages?

I would also like an answer to that question.

 

[Witchfinder General]

To be fair the US is sort of culpable for the Taliban what with the whole Iran/Contra scandal of the eighties.

 

[NewLib]

Does her fiancee look anything like Alfred Molina?

 

[gofreak]

And she is fine with that statement?

Now that response (or lack thereof) would make me really worried. Maybe she's already too much into that (or better: his?) whole way of thinking...

What would he do if somehow she couldn't get pregnant? If she became ill, etc.?

Try to make her skeptic about the whole affair. Do it calmly, prepare your argumentation. Let her draw the conclusions herself.

She actually immediately turned around and said "and what if it turned out that one of us wasn't able to have children?". And he said that'd be a different matter.

I think the idea of enumerating the things he was saying and asking her to just think about it might be the best way to go. Not to force an answer from her immediately, to simply ask her to think about it and come up with answers herself, and not to skirt the issue.

Thanks for the advice..

To be fair the US is sort of culpable for the Taliban what with the whole Iran/Contra scandal of the eighties.

I acknowledged that to him..he also thinks, however, that they continue to arm groups in Pakistan in order to destabilise the country and pave the way for US intervention. I mean I don't know how true or not that is, I really don't give a fig next to the other stuff, but..yeah.

 

[eso76]

She was yes. I think he knows but he rather not..he gets intensely upset if previous relationships are ever brought up. What makes it worse for him is that one of the prior, short-lived relationships was with a middle-eastern guy (what can I say, I guess she has a weakness).

oh, i can relate somehow : ) i used to have a weakness too, i had 2 girlfriends from the middle east. First one was lebanese and i have no idea how i menaged to keep things working for over a year

Spoiler

why! jerking off of course

.
Thankfully we broke up, i have no idea how i even began to think of starting anything with her, in retrospective that was a huge mistake, my life (hers too, probably) would have been miserable.
I suppose the best you can do is introduce a few good friends of yours to your sister hoping she realizes the guy is not special enough for her to go through all the troubles.

 

[Inanna]

haha. Way to sum up an entire nation.

Well, okay I dunno about EACH AND EVERY pakistani guy but the ones I've known were exactly like that. Never dated a Pakistani guy before though, just have a few friends.

 

[pakkit]

Just a heads up.

 

[Inanna]

I discussed this option with my brother..I couldn't tell him all the details though, because another brother was eavesdropping and I didn't want him to hear about it. From what I told him, he didn't think it was wise and told me to simply stay out of it, that she wouldn't thank me for involving our parents. But again, I didn't have the opportunity to tell him the details of our little argument.



That's sortof what I worry too. This would have been so much easier 2 years ago even. But undoubtedly there's a 'momentum' there that I think everyone in the family and her too have kind of fallen into, where we just kind of let things pass and don't do anything about it.



She works. And in fact, she's the main breadwinner at the moment..but she still needs his contribution to maintain independence.

I've seen them talk about this. He has said he doesn't want her working when they have kids.. moreover he says it's not something they'll even have to argue about because she won't want to work once he's making big money and doesn't need to work herself (again, this assumption about the nature of women wanting to be lazy and taken care of by their husbands, as all his sister-in-laws are). She vehemently argues with him that she wants to make her own career, but they usually end up saying "who knows what the future holds" and leave it at that. They're not really addressing that difference..he assumes it'll go his way, she doesn't want to rock the boat so she just withdraws from the argument.



He has this attitude..my sister despises that image of womanhood.



She was yes. I think he knows but he rather not..he gets intensely upset if previous relationships are ever brought up. What makes it worse for him is that one of the prior, short-lived relationships was with a middle-eastern guy (what can I say, I guess she has a weakness).

GOD!! Makes you wonder, why is she with a guy like that? OP, you are not over-reacting, you need to do something, this won't end well.

 

[gofreak]

Just a heads up.

Ha, thanks..never worried about the gender of the word before but I'll be more careful in future

 

[Boozeroony]

GOD!! Makes you wonder, why is she with a guy like that? OP, you are not over-reacting, you need to do something, this won't end well.

I can only agree. It is a slippery slope. Be honest about your thoughts and make a plan to raise her consciousness.

 

[bengraven]

Your sister needs to read "Not Without My Daughter".

I can picture you posting in GAF two years from now and your sister is in Pakistan with children and you haven't heard from her in over a year.

 

[gofreak]

Your sister needs to read "Not Without My Daughter".

I can picture you posting in GAF two years from now and your sister is in Pakistan with children and you haven't heard from her in over a year.

:| :| :'(

I'll consider the book, but I don't want to come off as a totally alarmist "omg you're dating a muslim look what they doooo" neanderthal. But his comments yesterday are kind of justifying the alarm.

We've been in bookstores where my sister has pointed out books like that and "sisters of shame" and he'd often just be laughing about them (in a 'don't take them too seriously' kind of way) :|

edit - actually I think I remember seeing the movie of that books..like ages ago, when i was a kid. I vaguely recall something similar to it anyway.

 

[Septy]

He's a cultural imperialist, a sexist and he's already mapped out that the children have to be in his religion. He's also showing the early signs of being an abusive husband, with his paranoia about her going out, this is one of the first steps control freaks take. When they marry, its probably going to get worse, it's a common pattern the world over.

The sad thing is you probably can't do anything, if you all seem to team up against him, it will probably just drive her more towards him.

I also wonder how he'd react if his sister dated an Irish man, his reaction would be illuminating.

 

[giga]

Ask him in front of your sister if their children (daughter) would be allowed to go on dates, wear tank tops/bathing suites, or go to the prom.

I'm 100% serious. Maybe it'll enlighten your sister as to how this guy will deeply affect other people that she really cares about.

 

[Kabouter]

Your sister needs to read "Not Without My Daughter".

I can picture you posting in GAF two years from now and your sister is in Pakistan with children and you haven't heard from her in over a year.

Or they're divorced and the father has kidnapped the children and taken them to Pakistan.

 

[gofreak]

Googling around about womens' rights in Pakistan in such, it's hard not to have my fears about her ever living there etc. completely confirmed.

e.g.

They are there just to obey their fathers, brothers and husbands. They do not have the right to decide about themselves because women are considered as foolish creatures according to the dominant social and cultural norms. Likewise marriage is also a sort of trade between different families both in the rural and urban areas.

I mean this almost completely sums up his attitude.. the bit about 'foolish creatures' in particular. That has manifested itself in apparently less dangerous ways (like flippant comments about 'crazy women') but according to my sister he quite persistently refers to her as being 'mental' and often questions how she got a degree (he, conversely, failed to get a degree). They always kiss and make up of course. In writing this sounds awful and sounds like it ought to be big warning signs, but it's amazing how you can just..let things go like I said, earlier.

His family, obviously, are not completely entrenched with arranged marriages, but the wedding they attended last year was an arranged marriage for his brother. I saw the video, the bride looked like she wanted to slit her wrists. In fact all the women looked thoroughly depressed (except for my sister). None of them work, which he's communicated to us as a 'respect' issue, but always seemed like subjugation to me..and, again, googling around, it's apparently actually a 'shame' issue to have women work outside the home, contributing to household income. So if they work at all, it's sight-unseen at home.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Do the opposite and challange him while keeping very calm and very composed. Again. And again. And again.

In front of your sister.

In front of people.

Should be good for a laugh at the very least.

This is terrible advice. It will make you look like a jerk in front of her and she'll get defensive of him. You really think it's a good idea to make him look like some sort of victim that you're bullying around?

I swear, many of you have no social skills and all just have this 4chan "do it for the lulz" mentality that dominates your decision making. This is real life, people. It's not like he can dance around with a long cat is looooooooooooong poster in front of the guy or hold up a facepalm image. You can't treat everything like a message board.

 

[dave is ok]

The fact that he can allow your sister to be the breadwinner of the relationship (hell, the fact he's with a light skinned woman at all) means one of two things:

a.) He can swallow his pride

b.) he's a fraud

He sounds like some defensive muslim that feels the need to try and defend the religion/culture (even some things he shouldn't be defending) because the image of it has been severely tainted for a while.

I think a lot of the things he was saying were probably coming directly from his fathers mouth - he may believe them to an extent - but he is living in a modern world, and must know that some things are outdated. Being with a light skinned woman that works proves that much. His father probably is ashamed of him, unless they're a cool adaptive muslim family - or possibly not every culture has the same rules.

To be honest, he sounds like a douche. Just because he had to be so defensive about it, and insult you, your sister and your parents by saying "A muslim would never leave his church" or whatever. Thats just ignorant. Many many muslims have left their faith before, the same as any religion. They might be more scared to than a Catholic because they could get flogged or a hand cut off or some bullshit.

Also: The conspiracy theories are laughable. Pakistan is the one middle eastern nation that the U.S. won't touch, even though it has Bin Laden.

 

[MightyHealthy]

give your sister an honest speech about how she's basically about to choose a life of nonexistence.

 

[fmcato]

My suggestion: don't openly oppose her like your parents but voice your concerns and say that you won't stop her (I don't think siding with your parents is a good idea), but if things go wrong as you fear you'll be there to help her.

But make clear that you're genuinely worried and not prejudiced against him.

Also, don't use your research about the life in Pakistan to argue. Stick to your experiences dealing directly with him.

 

[justjohn]

your sister couldnt find a nice irish dude to settle down with? yuk

 

[gofreak]

Also, don't use your research about the life in Pakistan to argue. Stick to your experiences dealing directly with him.

Hmm. I think that's probably the right thing to do, even if what I'm reading ought to be so appalingly convincing for anyone.

One thing he's successfully done with her is to make her think the image of Pakistan abroad is a complete fabrication of western media etc. And that it's not really that bad. So it could be difficult just pulling things off google to show her. She has been to Pakistan herself, she has seen for herself, but her communication with the women there was so limited because of language that I don't think she fully got an insight into how things are for them. But she did cotton on to some things..like the unhappiness of some of his female relatives about not being able to work etc. But again, I think she thinks she's an exception here, and always will and would be.

I will stick to what he has said though, yeah.

your sister couldnt find a nice irish dude to settle down with? yuk

C'est la.

I remember my parents lamenting why she couldn't have just found a nice irish man, and rolling my eyes at it, but I can't help but feel the same way now.

It's funny though..none of my siblings have been in long term relationships with Irish people!

 

[andycapps]

It's a tricky situation. From what you are saying that he said, he does not sound like a moderate Muslim to me. It sounds like they could have radically different worldviews, and probably radically different religious views as well. People always think they can change the other person in a relationship, but it never works. Marriage only amplifies problems, it definitely doesn't fix them. You gotta have that stuff together BEFORE you get married.

Then again, all of this is up to her anyway. If it were my sister and I'd been in the car, it definitely would have raised some alarm bells as to what he was saying. Let us know what happens.

 

[fmcato]

Hmm. I think that's probably the right thing to do, even if what I'm reading ought to be so appalingly convincing for anyone.

One thing he's successfully done with her is to make her think the image of Pakistan abroad is a complete fabrication of western media etc. And that it's not really that bad. So it could be difficult just pulling things off google to show her. She has been to Pakistan herself, she has seen for herself, but her communication with the women there was so limited because of language that I don't think she fully got an insight into how things are for them. But she did cotton on to some things..like the unhappiness of some of his female relatives about not being able to work etc. But again, I think she thinks she's an exception here, and always will and would be.

I will stick to what he has said though, yeah.

The problem here is that if you show some prejudice based on news and such (no matter how true it is when applied to her fiance) she's going to disregard your opinions as biased and will counterpoint with her experience there. Leave that stance to your parents.

Also, don't skip on the fact that if she goes to Pakistan and things go awry, the shithole can get much deeper than if she married a local douchebag. So ask her to be really really sure to take that step cause it will make you helping her much harder.

 

[AVclub]

Here's the problem: When you show disapproval for your sister's choice, her natural reaction will be to defend it. She will side with her fiance because if she didn't, she'd look like a loser. I am not going to pass judgment on the dude because I don't know him, but I do have a couple of words of advice with how to proceed.

If you believe this man doesn't have your sister's best interests in mind and you want to get rid of him, the proper way to do it is to have him show his true colors. By that, I mean that you should provoke him into violence in an inconspicuous way. Don't let your sister see you egging him on, but continue to verbally poke at him until he tries to physically assault you. At that point, you should allow him to get in a few hits, then beat the fuck out of him if you're able.

Go to the police and rightly claim self-defense. Then you can go to your sister and regretfully inform her that the man she plans to marry is a psycho. Don't do anything stupid like forbidding her to marry him because that's a sure way to achieving the opposite.

Unfortunately, most people don't get out of abusive relationships until it is too late. I don't have any sisters, but I know a few women who have chosen their abusers over their family because of the strong emotional grasp these predators have over their victims.

 

[Instigator]

Why does all the political threads attract the usual Pakistan apologists, but they are nowhere to be seen in this topic?

 

[Septy]

Why does all the political threads attract the usual Pakistan apologists, but they are nowhere to be seen in this topic?

America/India/Saudi Arabia/Media/"The West" (whatever that is) are preventing them.

 

[gofreak]

Also, don't skip on the fact that if she goes to Pakistan and things go awry, the shithole can get much deeper than if she married a local douchebag. So ask her to be really really sure to take that step cause it will make you helping her much harder.

Well this is what I'm curious about, I was trying to find out what rights women have in Pakistan, which is why I started googling..

I mean if she did marry and go there and something DID go wrong..could she leave the country on her own, for example? Could she take children?

Obviously just the geographical distance would make it harder to help her, sure, but are there other legal barriers that would crop up?

I don't want to jump ahead of myself here, but I'd just like her to know exactly what situation she'd be heading into legally, even if there was never reason to find herself at odds with the local norms (i.e. even if she'd be perfectly happy there, I just want her to know what the context would be in terms of her position and her power to make decisions and take actions).

Here's the problem: When you show disapproval for your sister's choice, her natural reaction will be to defend it. She will side with her fiance because if she didn't, she'd look like a loser. I am not going to pass judgment on the dude because I don't know him, but I do have a couple of words of advice with how to proceed.

If you believe this man doesn't have your sister's best interests in mind and you want to get rid of him, the proper way to do it is to have him show his true colors. By that, I mean that you should provoke him into violence in an inconspicuous way. Don't let your sister see you egging him on, but continue to verbally poke at him until he tries to physically assault you. At that point, you should allow him to get in a few hits, then beat the fuck out of him if you're able.

Go to the police and rightly claim self-defense. Then you can go to your sister and regretfully inform her that the man she plans to marry is a psycho. Don't do anything stupid like forbidding her to marry him because that's a sure way to achieving the opposite.

Unfortunately, most people don't get out of abusive relationships until it is too late. I don't have any sisters, but I know a few women who have chosen their abusers over their family because of the strong emotional grasp these predators have over their victims.

I know..it's her choice..I can't make her do anything! And yeah, her ego would make it difficult to climb down from a 3 year relationship. That's why my head is like 'gtfo' and my heart is torn for her.

 

[Zapages]

(So this is long. Sorry about that.)

Well, I am worried, but I'm not sure what I can do about it.

My sister's been seeing this guy for 3 years now, or so, and they got engaged pretty quickly (after about 6 months..which worried me, but they haven't jumped straight to marriage, so..).

He's from Pakistan, living here in Ireland now. When my sister first told my parents, being of an older generation and quite conservatively catholic, they were pretty upset and worried, and to this day do not want to see them get married. I've often argued with them that they shouldn't prejudge him just because of his cultural background.

Yesterday we were out together, me, him and my sister, and my sister got to talking about the bombings that had been happening in Pakistan and how awful it was etc. I agreed, and talked about how things seemed to be getting messy over there, and related to her the story regarding the Taliban flogging of that girl. She hadn't heard about this, but she then told her fiancee, and he sort of hesitated, and said "yeah, that's wrong". All fine. Then he starts talking to me about the situation in Pakistan, and how the US is basically orchestrating the whole thing in order to have reason to intervene and perhaps even invade. He says Pakistan is the only muslim country in the world with nuclear weapons, and the US doesn't like this..so they're sowing instability via groups like the Taliban in order to give them reason to intervene, lest 'nuclear weapons fall in the hands of terrorists'. He points to the money and the weapons these groups are acquired..all new modern weapons, often manufactured in the US (or he says). He says it doesn't matter anyway, because Pakistan's nuclear arsenal has been moved to China.

I kind of just smiled and nodded, I didn't want to challenge him in an open public space, because he was getting rather animated and heated as it was. He kind of kept coming back to these things over the course of the afternoon in order to 'inform me'. I can deal with his conspiracy-theorying about the US etc. but as time worn on, he kind of kept coming back to the more religious aspect of things, how Islam is the one true religion of peace, and how the western media is trying to disrupt relations between muslims in the west and westerners with these stories about the Taliban etc.

So then we got talking about that again, and a variety of stuff came out of the wash about his opinion and attitude on these things, including:

1) the girl in that story had slept with the man
2) that 70-odd year old woman who'd also recieved lashings for the same 'crime' in a previous case had also been sleeping with those two younger men
3) if there are 3 witnesses, that's a watertight conviction (not answering HOW three people could have witnessed something like that)
4) if a woman sleeps with a man like that she deserves the flogging
5) if a judge passes down that judgement it's right and has to be accepted
6) that all of this is out of 'respect' for women, that Islam respects women more than any other religion..that women and unrelated men not being allowed to mix etc. is all purely out of respect for the woman.
7) that a father or a husband is also responsible for his daughter/son's or wife's moral actions (which might explain #6 - he thinks this is all about preserving the woman's morals, saving her from herself, and thus is the ultimate respect for her)
8) the attitude that people, and seemingly in particular women, cannot be trusted to make their own decisions about personal morality, and thus it has to be enforced by a third party (like the father or the husband, or the authorities)..that we cannot trust the nature of humanity, we cannot give people the freedom to choose, it has to be enforced ('freedom go to hell!?')
9) that because me and my sister are 'lapsed catholics', our parents had failed in our upbringing..that raising a child in the one true religion (islam), this wouldn't happen, and it won't happen with his children. and oh, this is also why islam is now the third most subscribed to religion in Ireland, because people want a 'real' religion.

and then, this bit, which most disturbed me:

10) when he buys a house and he and my sister are living there, she 'will have to co-operate with me'.

Now I've completely omitted my counter arguments here, for brevity. Sufficed to say I argued with him about personal choice and freedom, the worthlessness of a religion or faith or (personal) moral code that must be enforced vs voluntarily lived by, that the state or 'the authorities' have no right to enforce 'personal' morality (i.e. not involving the detriment of third parties), that from my POV, all the things he talks about as being 'respect' for women are actually disenfranchising them as independent, self-thinking human beings and treats them like property etc. etc.

He 'clarified' his comment about my sister having to 'co-operate' with him by saying that they have an agreement that when they're 'set up' so to speak in terms of their own house etc. they've agreed to start a family. And that's just what that's about..

Anyway, I'm just more than a little concerned about the attitudes he expressed and how they relate to my sister's future. My sister completely argued back against him with me, so it's not like she's 'converted' to his way of thinking. But at the same time, I'm worried she may be slightly in denial about how big of an issue things like this could become particularly down the line. She texted me later and said "not to mind him, he's full of crap sometimes". I'd previously thought he was quite a 'moderate' Muslim, fairly well adjusted to life here, but I just don't know now. I saw a wild-eyed side to him yesterday that's got me really worried.

Is there anything I should do or even CAN do here? Am I crazy for being worried or should I just not take it too seriously and ignore it like my sister seems to be?

Ok as I a Pakistani, I could help out a bit...

As for the flogged girl story, check the thread here on GAF... Apparently he girl who was flogged has said that wasn't her... So I don't know what to make of the story and there is so much mis-information out there. Let it just be..

About Pakistan being invaded by the US, its all over Pakistani News channels and newspapers that all this is ploy to get Pakistan's Nuclear facilities. Plus the whole corruption. Also there is two types of taliban there one is the afghan Taliban who is not taking any responsibility of any of the attacks in Pakistan while there is the Tarike Ke Taliban which is orchestrating all these attacks... So that's the reason of the whole thing... All this I read on a Pakistani Political forum... Most Pakistanis don't view TKT pakistanis as they are the ones that forced shari'a in Swat and not the old people who wanted Shari'a in the first place...

As for the thing that kind of disturbed, I think co-operate is not the right word to use. I think he actually means with that marriage is a two way street nothing gets done if he or she gets their way. They have to work together on it...

Hope this helps...

PS: Guys, I am in the US and I don't even date... Also you can't judge people in real life on how they are here...

 

[dave is ok]

As for the flogged girl story, check the thread here on GAF... Apparently he girl who was flogged has said that wasn't her... So I don't know what to make of the story and there is so much mis-information out there. Let it just be..

CG IMO

 

[fmcato]

Well this is what I'm curious about, I was trying to find out what rights women have in Pakistan, which is why I started googling..

I mean if she did marry and go there and something DID go wrong..could she leave the country on her own, for example? Could she take children?

Obviously just the geographical distance would make it harder to help her, sure, but are there other legal barriers that would crop up?

I don't want to jump ahead of myself here, but I'd just like her to know exactly what situation she'd be heading into legally, even if there was never reason to find herself at odds with the local norms (i.e. even if she'd be perfectly happy there, I just want her to know what the context would be in terms of her position and her power to make decisions and take actions).

Even if she's legally protected as an Irish citizen, his family is what might turn to be a huge problem. Since she already knows them, just drop that concern and let her to think on her own.

Also, I haven't read all the thread, but if your family isn't meeting his before the marriage then it seems like she's already resolved to cut family ties if necessary. Make sure that doesn't include you.

 

[Zapages]

Technically, if he was such a conservative... He wouldn't even be dating in the first place... Just putting this out there...

 

[gofreak]

Also, I haven't read all the thread, but if your family isn't meeting his before the marriage then it seems like she's already resolved to cut family ties if necessary. Make sure that doesn't include you.

That's an interesting point.

No, they haven't met. And I can't imagine us meeting unless we all got on a plane to visit them. Which I really can't see happening.

I'm not sure if that means she's resigned herself to cutting ties with her family upon marriage, though. I don't think she's thought of that possibility at all. I don't think she's really even thought about moving to and living in Pakistan and what that might mean for her. When that comes up that's definitely another "who knows where we'll be" issue.

I think I need to put it to her that if she isn't happy with the idea of moving to and living permanently in Pakistan, if there's any doubt in her mind about it, she needs to bail now. Because he's going to split the marriage anyway if she turns around later and says she doesn't want that.

Technically, if he was such a conservative... He wouldn't even be dating in the first place... Just putting this out there...

Yeah, it's sort of an interesting contradiction. BUT, he was a virgin before meeting her. This is his first relationship. He thinks she's going to be his wife, he's sure of it.

 

[krypt0nian]

That guy is disgusting.

Set him up with a hooker.
Video it.
...
Profit.


She deserves MUCH better and if you have to orchestrate that, so be it.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

This is one of two things:

1) Holy shit Batman, bail the fuck out.

2) He is full of shit. He kind of believes in half of what he is saying, and will argue to death to make not only you but himself believe it, but really doesn't give a shit in the end. There are plenty of foreigners like this; they take up a popular ideology in their country as a mantra in order to form an identity but since they don't really believe it, they are harmless. In fact, after living in Western society long enough, most of them will drop their pretending.

Honestly, number 2 is the most likely outcome. Don't underestimate a human's ability to circumvent their own opinions and beliefs in order to either win an argument or to form an identity. He's playing a role: "hey guys, I'm middle eastern and let me inform you of our ideology."

Easy solution is to spend a ton of time with him for the sake of "bringing him into the family". Have a few drinks with him (if he drinks, I think you know which one of the two options he is). Oh, and spend time with him alone. Chill with the guy, he could be your brother-in-law soon.

 

[Dark Octave]

Here's the problem: When you show disapproval for your sister's choice, her natural reaction will be to defend it. She will side with her fiance because if she didn't, she'd look like a loser. I am not going to pass judgment on the dude because I don't know him, but I do have a couple of words of advice with how to proceed.

If you believe this man doesn't have your sister's best interests in mind and you want to get rid of him, the proper way to do it is to have him show his true colors. By that, I mean that you should provoke him into violence in an inconspicuous way. Don't let your sister see you egging him on, but continue to verbally poke at him until he tries to physically assault you. At that point, you should allow him to get in a few hits, then beat the fuck out of him if you're able.

Go to the police and rightly claim self-defense. Then you can go to your sister and regretfully inform her that the man she plans to marry is a psycho. Don't do anything stupid like forbidding her to marry him because that's a sure way to achieving the opposite.

Unfortunately, most people don't get out of abusive relationships until it is too late. I don't have any sisters, but I know a few women who have chosen their abusers over their family because of the strong emotional grasp these predators have over their victims.

:lol That's horrible advice.

 

[joey_z]

The fact that he can allow your sister to be the breadwinner of the relationship (hell, the fact he's with a light skinned woman at all) means one of two things:

a.) He can swallow his pride

b.) he's a fraud

He sounds like some defensive muslim that feels the need to try and defend the religion/culture (even some things he shouldn't be defending) because the image of it has been severely tainted for a while.

I think a lot of the things he was saying were probably coming directly from his fathers mouth - he may believe them to an extent - but he is living in a modern world, and must know that some things are outdated. Being with a light skinned woman that works proves that much. His father probably is ashamed of him, unless they're a cool adaptive muslim family - or possibly not every culture has the same rules.

To be honest, he sounds like a douche. Just because he had to be so defensive about it, and insult you, your sister and your parents by saying "A muslim would never leave his church" or whatever. Thats just ignorant. Many many muslims have left their faith before, the same as any religion. They might be more scared to than a Catholic because they could get flogged or a hand cut off or some bullshit.

Also: The conspiracy theories are laughable. Pakistan is the one middle eastern nation that the U.S. won't touch, even though it has Bin Laden.

I don't know if I should laugh or shake my head. What does the colour of a girl's skin have anything to do with this? There are plenty of muslim countries with 'light skinned' girls.

And a question to the OP: Is this guy planning on converting your sister to Islam? I always thought a muslim can only marry another muslim. So either he's shit at following 'his' religion (fingers crossed) or those two haven't married as yet because he's slowly getting her to convert.

EditL Also, I really think it's important for you to ask him how he'd react if his sister(and this is if he has/were to have a sister) started dating an Irish non-muslim guy. Ask this question while your sister is present. This question alone should answer a butt load of questions regarding his sensibilities and temprament.

 

[Zapages]

That's an interesting point.

No, they haven't met. And I can't imagine us meeting unless we all got on a plane to visit them. Which I really can't see happening.

I'm not sure if that means she's resigned herself to cutting ties with her family upon marriage, though. I don't think she's thought of that possibility at all. I don't think she's really even thought about moving to and living in Pakistan and what that might mean for her. When that comes up that's definitely another "who knows where we'll be" issue.

I think I need to put it to her that if she isn't happy with the idea of moving to and living permanently in Pakistan, if there's any doubt in her mind about it, she needs to bail now. Because he's going to split the marriage anyway if she turns around later and says she doesn't want that.




Yeah, it's sort of an interesting contradiction. BUT, he was a virgin before meeting her. This is his first relationship. He thinks she's going to be his wife, he's sure of it.

If he is such a good Muslim... For marriage to occur, your parents have to approve her marriage to him aka both family has to meet before the marriage can occur. Marriage in Islam is two family becoming one family.

I'll say bring her to a local masjid and ask the local iman about how the process is... This can not occur without the parents involvement.


Also on a serious note try to find if he has a citizenship or he is doing this get a green card or things like that... This is very important as I've seen to many of these type of guys just marrying for the green card. Also try to find if he has a wife back home or he is a fraud...

 

[Dark Octave]

If he is such a good Muslim... For marriage to occur, your parents have to approve her marriage to him aka both family has to meet before the marriage can occur. Marriage in Islam is two family becoming one family.

I'll say bring her to a local masjid and ask the local iman about how the process is... This can not occur without the parents involvement.

Probably why they have been engaged for two and a half years.

 

[Lonestar]

Potato Famine, it's the only way.

I can't come up with an easy solution to this "problem." I'll jump in with the "tell her to think this whole thing through before marriage" crowd. That there is a chance that once married, his view of her independance could change. It's one thing to live like that in Ireland, but another thing if they up and move to Pakistan. So...yeah.

 

[-viper-]

Bail out ASAP. Things will not end well from the way you have described things D:

 

[Zapages]

Also on a serious note try to find if he has a citizenship or he is doing this get a green card or things like that... This is very important as I've seen to many of these type of guys just marrying for the green card. Also try to find if he has a wife back home or he is a fraud...

 

[industrian]

Being married is all about making compromises, and since this appears to be incompatible with the guy's mindset then she needs to GTFO.

Is your sister's fiancee Zapages?

Nah, the fiance blames America for everything - not India.

 

[joey_z]

Also on a serious note try to find if he has a citizenship or he is doing this get a green card or things like that... This is very important as I've seen to many of these type of guys just marrying for the green card. Also try to find if he has a wife back home or he is a fraud...

haha. That's actually a really good point!

 

[Zapages]

Being married is all about making compromises, and since this appears to be incompatible with the guy's mindset then she needs to GTFO.



Nah, the fiance blames America for everything - not India.

Jeez man... Cut me a break here... I don't blame everything on India and you guys don't even know me in real life... I am trying to help the guy out here.

 

[gofreak]

The Crimson Blur - I've spent a little time with him on my own.. When I first met him, when he first met our family, he was very very quiet. Kind of impossible to get anything out of him. He doesn't drink..he doesn't go out really at all. So it's hard to just bring him out for a man-to-man. But from what I have gathered, most of the time he seems like a nice guy. There are certain aspects of his personality I don't like - he's a bit of a chancer, had a run-in or two with the police over things like car insurance and car tax - but overall he seemed sound enough. Which is why I often defended him to my parents. But now I'm just worried there's this total other side of him waiting to come out under a different context. If he's just bullshitting...I hope he is, but you can't just bullshit about stuff like this and expect people not to get really concerned.

And a question to the OP: Is this guy planning on converting your sister to Islam? I always thought a muslim can only marry another muslim. So either he's shit at following 'his' religion (fingers crossed) or those two haven't married as yet because he's slowly getting her to convert.

EditL Also, I really think it's important for you to ask him how he'd react if his sister(and this is if he has/were to have a sister) started dating an Irish non-muslim guy. Ask this question while your sister is present. This question alone should answer a butt load of questions regarding his sensibilities and temprament.

I'll try that question on him.

There's been no explicit talk of conversion to Islam, but I don't know if that would be required or not for them to marry under Islam. However my sister has been reading the Qu'ran under his encouragement..that's a far cry from conversion though.

If he is such a good Muslim... For marriage to occur, your parents have to approve her marriage to him aka both family has to meet before the marriage can occur. Marriage in Islam is two family becoming one family.

I'll say bring her to a local masjid and ask the local iman about how the process is... This can not occur without the parents involvement.

OK. Well there has been no involvement in that regard with my parents. In fact, I'm still not sure if she's told them that they're engaged, although I think they 'know' just from their discussions about how much they don't want her to marry him.

And I don't think they'd ever give permission for her to marry him under Islam, if that is required.

Also on a serious note try to find if he has a citizenship or he is doing this get a green card or things like that... This is very important as I've seen to many of these type of guys just marrying for the green card. Also try to find if he has a wife back home or he is a fraud...

It was one of the first things I enquired about him all those years ago. Apparently he has a green card. He could be eligible for citizenship in a couple of years, supposedly. I don't think there's any wife at home..she's been 'home' to see his family twice, so it would be some trick to keep a wife there hidden.

 

[Anerythristic]

There is alot of great advice in this thread for you.

This does not sound good at all. If you love your sister have a family meeting and try to get control of this situation. It sounds like a bad Lifetime movie where the moment they are married he takes contol of her.

It really sounds like a strong possibility that you will rarely see your sister or nieces and nephews if they have children. Is she planning on converting to Islam as it sounds like the boyfriend is "positive" she will be a muslim.

I feel bad for you brother.

 

[Justin Timberlake]

Important question: how long has this guy been in the West.

The Crimson Blur - I've spent a little time with him on my own.. When I first met him, when he first met our family, he was very very quiet. Kind of impossible to get anything out of him. He doesn't drink..he doesn't go out really at all. So it's hard to just bring him out for a man-to-man. But from what I have gathered, most of the time he seems like a nice guy. There are certain aspects of his personality I don't like - he's a bit of a chancer, had a run-in or two with the police over things like car insurance and car tax - but overall he seemed sound enough. Which is why I often defended him to my parents. But now I'm just worried there's this total other side of him waiting to come out under a different context. If he's just bullshitting...I hope he is, but you can't just bullshit about stuff like this and expect people not to get really concerned.

Spend time with him alone. I don't care if its hard to do. You will never know who he really is unless your sister is not present. Regardless of your suspicions, any guy who has plans of marrying your sister should spend some quality time with you.

your sister couldnt find a nice irish dude to settle down with? yuk

Wtf is this shit. Ugh.

 

[-viper-]

Is this guy a Pakistani native, or was he born in Ireland?