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[GDJustin]

Okay. I still don't want to play games using a one-handed numerical pad that wasn't ever designed with games in mind. It's never going to be as good as two-handed setups designed specifically for gaming.

Like I said...

"The interface sucks lol. NEXT TOPIC."

That's pretty much it, right? Don't you get that the people making these games are gamers too? And the people reviewing the good ones positively (me) are also pretty hardcore?

I write for a living. I get paid whether I give every mobile game 1-2 stars or not. I have no agenda. And yet I'm still awarding a lot of four-star reviews these days, because a lot of the latest mobile games are really fun. And not just fun for someone who doesn't "know better." They're fun for me, a gamer who plays Gears of War almost nightly, has been gaming since birth, owns over a dozen systems, etc.

I can switch from Gears of War or, say, Yoshi Island DS to a good mobile game and have a ton of fun. And not enjoy it just because I'm reviewing it.

 

[AzureNightmare]

and we care why? cellphone games suck. period. end of story

 

[909er]

I finally understand how Japanese gamers must feel when anything Xbox related is brought up.

 

[Branduil]

Like I said...

"The interface sucks lol. NEXT TOPIC."

That's pretty much it, right? Don't you get that the people making these games are gamers too? And the people reviewing the good ones positively (me) are also pretty hardcore?

I write for a living. I get paid whether I give every mobile game 1-2 stars or not. I have no agenda. And yet I'm still awarding a lot of four-star reviews these days, because a lot of the latest mobile games are really fun. And not just fun for someone who doesn't "know better." They're fun for me, a gamer who plays Gears of War almost nightly, has been gaming since birth, owns over a dozen systems, etc.

I can switch from Gears of War or, say, Yoshi Island DS to a good mobile game and have a ton of fun. And not enjoy it just because I'm reviewing it.

If you can overlook an obtuse button layout(obtuse for games, that is), good for you. I can't.

 

[John Master Lee]

Cellphone games don't suck. That's like saying XBLA games suck. Or PC online casual games suck. Or board games suck.

Those all suck if you compare it to high end console games.

Enjoy a cellphone game for what it is. A time killer when you are waiting in line at McDonalds. A way to get through those long church sermons. A way to make your stay on the toilet more fun. I'm a believer.

That being said, I do think Nokia is a lot like Microsoft. Both have TONS of cash, and when they see an opportunity, they'll keep pluggin away at it til they get it right. Cellphone gaming has doubled in size each year for the last 4 years. You better believe that if Nokia doesn't get it right this time, they eventually will.

Although I do wonder why it's so hard to combine a phone with a gaming device. It seems like companies try to create a phone first, then shoehorn in some gaming. Why not do something like take a Nintendo DS, and a speaker and ear piece, and then you got a gaming phone?

 

[GDJustin]

If you can overlook an obtuse button layout(obtuse for games, that is), good for you. I can't.

Mouse & keyboard most certainly weren't designed with gaming in mind, and gamers seem to be OK with them as an input method, eh?

Just don't be so close-minded. It's a crappy way to live your gaming life. You'll never know what you're missing.

 

[AzureNightmare]

and yet they keep on defending the game market that shouldnt exist, how annoying

 

[Corwood Rep]

You rang?

http://www.modojo.com/features/20061208/149/nokia_s60_emulator_rundown/

Unlockable for use with Verizon?

Please?

 

[Corwood Rep]

Actually, let me clarify:

What compatible phones (I thought it was just the E62 or whatever) are usable with Verizon, if in fact there are any?

 

[kamikaze]

Just don't be so close-minded. It's a crappy way to live your gaming life. You'll never know what you're missing.

you know, after reading through chittagong and your posts in this thread, it seems like there's been nice progress made with mobile games. however, for whatever reason, i still don't find myself very interested. i can see some games being nice time killers for random situations where i find myself waiting around...but that's about it.

still, one of the reasons i lurk around neoGAF is to learn about games i don't have too much time or interest in playing myself so....

-are most of the good mobile games action/arcade games? rainbow six is the only game that you posted about which focuses on completing a scenario rather than getting a high score.

-how much faster does regularly playing games drain the battery on your phone?

-is there any mobile game that you've played that you liked enough to play at home (where you have more gaming options with your home consoles/pc)?

 

[DECK'ARD]

The only mobile game that's held my attention and been playable was the original Snake. And that was because it was simple enough to work with a keypad.

Everything else has been a novelty for just a couple of goes, or plain unpleasant. Hell most mobile phones don't even support 2 buttons being held down at the same time! Mobile games will sell to some degree, but then the market is huge and there's always people who will spend silly money on ringtones and wallpapers etc.

In terms of a mobile games platform that's not a DS/PSP, I think the iPhone and inevitable next-generation iPods with multitouch will be more relevant. Just because the interface will allow more.

 

[Deku]

Why is everyone so negative on Nokia's new attempt at the games market.
Ok, the N-gage was a disaster that even the most casual observers could see but somehow Nokia couldn't. But I think they have a market to attack and its not the portable games market but the mobile games market. They can probably carve a fairly profitable niche as a games oriented 'mobile maker' since up to now, most mobile phone simply throw in a bunch of processors into their mobile phones and expect 3rd party application makers to make something of it.

A games dedicated mobile machine might be lucrative if Nokia keeps its ambition in check. But the listed reps (EA Mobile etc) in attentance seem to signal their intentions, which is it won't be entering the portable space.

I really have to see their strategy to judge. But don't write them off.

 

[AlteredBeast]

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

For a group that is always so quick to embrace new technologies, gamers sure seem to resist attempts to improve their handheld gaming options.

If I could play a game on a dedicated portable gaming machine, or a phone, why would I wish to play on the phone? Some non-portable gamers will say similar things about wishing to play all games on a home console, but there are clear reasons portable games fill a niche consoles can't. What new niche is the mobile game supposed to fill, but to cater for those who don't want to have a separate gaming device?

 

[thefro]

The N-Gage continues to be my prime example of why you won't have a device that's a good phone and a good portable game system. The requirements of both are too desperate. You have conflicts of interest with regard to the user interface, access to media removal, the comfortability and size of screen vs the ability to put the damned thing in your pocket, etc.

 

[rollingstart]

great for Brain Age

 

[John Master Lee]

The mobile gaming market is very different than console. Over 50% that play are female. So if you look at the top ten games sold each month, it's stuff like
Tetris
Bejeweled
The Sims
Jewel Quest
Texas Holdem Poker
Frogger
Ms Pacman

They tend to be arcade games. Casual games. Simple games to pick up and play. You do have games like Destroy All Humans, Bomberman, and Rainbow Six that make it every now and then, but they usually represent a niche piece, which is about opposite what the console market is.

 

[Lazy8s]

The list of phones so far which will support the next generation platform:

N93



N93i



N95



The N800 technically has the hardware to support it, but it probably won't be given access to the platform since it's a Linux tablet and not a Series 60 Symbian phone.

 

[Whimsical Phil]

Hopefully Nokia remembers to slap the price tag on potentially underage models again.

 

[Pope Benedict XVI]

And some Ngage screenshots from the new platform

I'm surprised they can get away with copying the achievements/gamerscore system so exactly ("accomplishments" and "n-gage points" lol), even having an extremely similar profile thing. I'd actually like it if MS could sue them, if only to help put the n-gage team out of its misery

 

[dose]

Okay. I still don't want to play games using a one-handed numerical pad that wasn't ever designed with games in mind. It's never going to be as good as two-handed setups designed specifically for gaming.

Exactly. The fact that the majority of phones out there only recognise one keypress at a time is a BIG problem imo.

 

[mrklaw]

The list of phones so far which will support the next generation platform:



N95



.

look at that thing. No way you can play games with that crazy keypad layout. Dpad on one side, four buttons on the other? Sheer lunacy!

Oh and nothing to stop you flipping that round so the dpad is on the left BTW

 

[Ghost]

It's all about the interface, if they get it right I'm down for some gaming on my phone, but Im not playing 3d games a standard phone layout, or any high action game. I've tried, its shit.

 

[BuG]

I never understood the whole sidetalking thing. Yes, it was kind of retarded to have mic/speaker out the side, but what was even more retarded was teh whole associated itnernet phenomenon. None of them were funny, and all of them were try-hard.

It's hilarious when you actually see someone sidetalking in real life, and the moron in question knows damn well it's ridiculous and is trying to conceal the fact by covering their ear with their jacket.

 

[mrklaw]

It's hilarious when you actually see someone sidetalking in real life, and the moron in question knows damn well it's ridiculous and is trying to conceal the fact by covering their ear with their jacket.

whats weird though is that it was perfectly possible to talk on it flat to your head - you didn't actually have to have it sticking out like a giant ear.

 

[Aaron]

Okay. I still don't want to play games using a one-handed numerical pad that wasn't ever designed with games in mind. It's never going to be as good as two-handed setups designed specifically for gaming.

Sounds like you have a crappy cell. My Sony Erricsson has a decent d-pad, and a number of games play pretty darn well. It only needs a nudge or two of improvement to surpass a GBA in the control department.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Being in Canada, the worst country in the world for cellphones, I'm sure we won't get any of these hot Nokia phones, or when we do, they'll be horribly expensive, crippled, and loaded with massively expensive data plans.

 

[duckroll]

Now this has NOTHING to do with N-Gage, but before people constantly knock mobile games as something that "no one would play" and that "no publishers would take seriously" maybe you should take a look at what just some of the announced Japanese companies have for mobiles in Japan....



Capcom
Monster Hunter
Street Fighter Zero
Lost Planet
Phoenix Wright series
Shin Onimusha
Devil May Cry



Square Enix
Dragon Quest II
Dragon Quest Monsters
Dirge of Cerberus FFVII
Before Crisis FFVII
Front Mission 2089
Front Mission 2089 II



Namco
Xenosaga Pied Piper
Tales of Breaker
Tales of Comons
Tales of Warheit
Raiden III
Ace Combat

 

[Ikael]

Thing is, the interface is a primary issue in videogaming, something that has been quite overlooked until Nintendo lauched the DS and the Wii. Nokia must understand that a proper interface can boost game design way more than a common multimedia platafform.

 

[Pipomantis]

Okay. I may be the last person on Earth to own an N-Gage.

But that's fine, I manage.















PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE, NOKIA ! STOP IT !

WHEN I GO OUT TO THE STREETS, PEOPLE THROW ROCKS AT ME, LAUGH, AND MAKE ME EAT MY PHONE LIKE "HERE'S YOUR TACO, BITCH !"

So please, for the sake of humanity. Stop now.

 

[Roi]

 

[Ghost]

Oooh the corrugated iron look is SO in </sarcasm>

 

[Chittagong]

Oooh the corrugated iron look is SO in </sarcasm>

http://www.engadget.com/2005/05/19/nokia-concept-phone-n-gage-2/


.

 

[Defuser]

Now this has NOTHING to do with N-Gage, but before people constantly knock mobile games as something that "no one would play" and that "no publishers would take seriously" maybe you should take a look at what just some of the announced Japanese companies have for mobiles in Japan....



Capcom
Monster Hunter
Street Fighter Zero
Lost Planet
Phoenix Wright series
Shin Onimusha
Devil May Cry



Square Enix
Dragon Quest II
Dragon Quest Monsters
Dirge of Cerberus FFVII
Before Crisis FFVII
Front Mission 2089
Front Mission 2089 II



Namco
Xenosaga Pied Piper
Tales of Breaker
Tales of Comons
Tales of Warheit
Raiden III
Ace Combat

But the problem is we don't have those Japanese phones

 

[Deku]

Now this has NOTHING to do with N-Gage, but before people constantly knock mobile games as something that "no one would play" and that "no publishers would take seriously" maybe you should take a look at what just some of the announced Japanese companies have for mobiles in Japan....

Yeah Japan has a pretty massive market for mobile games but in terms of content its more of an aberration that so many intricate games (especially RPGs) are on mobiles. The games you list would never sell outside of Japan, its very culture specific and many are just spin off properties to keep fans of certain game franchises playing a product even when they are not on their PS2 or DS. It is the product of a culture that's very mobile centric which means even the gamers who already have a primary gaming platform also a mobile phone which they can play games on. The kind of penetration rates simply doesn't exist in America. And Nokia will really have to build in Europe and Japan first and to be quite frank I'm not convinced they can do either successfully.

Would Madden Mobile 08 sell ? I'd like to know. The Sims Mobile might do well though.

Edit: I want to add that when I refer to 'penetration' I don't just mean raw numbers but rather the culture that surrounds it. Americans for example text a lot less than Japanese or Europeans per capita. They may have the phones on them, but the way they use those phones are significantly different. This is a good read.

 

[mrklaw]

Thing is, the interface is a primary issue in videogaming, something that has been quite overlooked until Nintendo lauched the DS and the Wii. Nokia must understand that a proper interface can boost game design way more than a common multimedia platafform.

maybe its not trying to outdo the DS or PSP?

Maybe just selling millions of devices with at least a common level of interface simply provides a market for publishers to sell on?

While there is a call for the interface to be at least 'good enough', plenty of people played games on the spectrum and that had a rubber keypad that was crap. You design for the interface you have

 

[SovanJedi]

The problem is that the number of handsets and the sheer variety in technical capabilities horrendously cripples what a mobile phone maker can do with a game. Phone screen resolutions can vary from 96x65, all the way up to VGA (640x480), and the capabilities of each phone differs just as much with it.

It's always been the goal to develop for the lowest common denominator, so most of the game-specific advantages that some phones offer, such as these new Nokia phones, get snubbed because you have to develop a game for the Sony Ericsson T610 at the same time, which is an absolute dog. Creating more phone-exclusive games require more time, more money, more manpower and is just a plain nightmare. For comparison's sake, just imagine if NSMB2 was being developed simultaneously for the DS, the GBA, the Game Boy Color, the original Game Boy and the Pokemon Mini (we'll throw in a PSP as well for the sole reason of proving my point about technology gaps between target machines. If that makes you unhappy, you can substitute it with GBNext, or that rumoured Gamecube-powered handheld - just something in that power range), and ALL versions had the same completion deadline and release date.

The reason why Japanese mobile phone games are more impressive is because the capability range of handsets in their market is much more narrow so it's relatively much easier to work on one version with all the bells and whistles and not worry about them being jipped for smaller phones.

 

[mrklaw]

which is why you develop a platform. You harmonise the specs as much as you can to reduce the fragmentation and provide a stable development/publishing environment.

You reduce the number of handsets you can support, but its still in the millions.

 

[Kiriku]

I've played a few cell-phones games and enjoyed some of them. Prince of Persia Warrior Within was a cool game for example. But since I already have DS and PSP, they would have to release some REALLY good N-Gage games for me to be even slightly interested.
I mean, maybe there are some good games coming, but there are a lot of good games coming for PSP and DS as well, and I don't have enough time to play all games being released nowadays. Also, I would have to buy another piece of hardware to even play those N-Gage games anyway. So sorry Nokia, it's an uphill battle. Hope you have a lot of money to spend to convince me!
But who am I kidding, if I buy a new cell-phone it would obviously have to be a Sony Ericsson, must support the Swedish underdog! ;P

 

[Outcast2004]

Awesome. I never understood the hate for Ngage. Props to Nokia

It was overpriced, underpowered and the games and controls were crap. That's usually enough to get some heat.

 

[john tv]

Did Xanadu Next ever come out for N-Gage? I was gonna buy one for that, but then it wound up releasing on PC first, so I gave up and got the PC one instead.

 

[mrklaw]

I've played a few cell-phones games and enjoyed some of them. Prince of Persia Warrior Within was a cool game for example. But since I already have DS and PSP, they would have to release some REALLY good N-Gage games for me to be even slightly interested.
I mean, maybe there are some good games coming, but there are a lot of good games coming for PSP and DS as well, and I don't have enough time to play all games being released nowadays. Also, I would have to buy another piece of hardware to even play those N-Gage games anyway. So sorry Nokia, it's an uphill battle. Hope you have a lot of money to spend to convince me!
But who am I kidding, if I buy a new cell-phone it would obviously have to be a Sony Ericsson, must support the Swedish underdog! ;P

They've walkman branded, are about to bravia brand. How long before a playstation branded SE phone?

 

[Funky Papa]

Did Xanadu Next ever come out for N-Gage? I was gonna buy one for that, but then it wound up releasing on PC first, so I gave up and got the PC one instead.

Yep. I loved it. It may be one of the finest games of the platform.

I think the N-Gage gets some extra bashing because it comes from a non gaming related company. People would stop lolerin' if true gems like Pathway to Glory were released for the DS.

 

[Kilrogg]

Okay, after reading the thread, here's what's coming to my mind:

Why would we laugh at a product that's not even out ? I mean, in the gaming business, every new gaming device has a chance of being successful, even if the previous one was crappy.

Now, I have very strong doubts about this N-Gage 2, especially if Nokia's business strategy remains the same, but I also don't know what to expect. They mave have a great product this time.

That doesn't mean I'm interested in it, since all I want from my mobile phone is to be able to phone and send messages.

 

[fse]

I think nokia will get it right one day. They know what they are doing.

 

[the thoroughbred]

Its human nature to be greedy. Why can't firms just be content with what they do. There should be pride and integrity. I guess these are old values, that are not recognised today.

 

[jarrod]

Did Xanadu Next ever come out for N-Gage? I was gonna buy one for that, but then it wound up releasing on PC first, so I gave up and got the PC one instead.

It came out... Falcom should port it to DS.

 

[digita1alchemy]

and we care why? cellphone games suck. period. end of story

Don't speak for me buddy. I've played alot of awesome mobile games lately. And for anyone who says the interface sucks: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/column_index.php?story=8506

We have additional trackers for mobile that are coming, including a very accurate 3D finger position tracker that will allow for sword play and user interface control.

 

[Dsal]

You have to admire Nokia's stubborn progress. They went from being obviously absolutely clueless to having some pretty interesting stuff.

I don't get the platform hate here. Sure mobile gaming maybe isn't interesting yet to most of us, but that doesn't mean we need to write it off permanently while it still evolves and improves. It's in all our interests if they keep trying, because someday someone will get it right and we'll all benefit.

 

[Danj]

I like the look of the new screenshots but if Nokia are really serious about this they need to start persuading European mobile phone carriers to start offering unlimited/flat-fee data plans to non-business users at non-stupid prices. Over here in the UK on GPRS you get charged around 0.7 pence (1.4 cents) per kilobyte. That might not seem like much but it quickly mounts up - 1Mb of data is £7.17 ($14.05). Imagine downloading mobile gaming content at that kind of price.