Support NeoGAF

[Boglin]

Sounds like you are sexually confused

I would be too if the men I see look like this.

 

[Fehyd]

They really look nothing alike. Different facial structure almost entirely. Different size and proportion of facial features.

 

[Jobbs]

They look nothing alike

I want to say anyone who thinks this is trolling, but some people just aren't good at recognizing and sorting faces. My brother routinely sees people on TV or movies and thinks they're someone else. He thought Channing Tatum was in San Andreas. Some people just aren't good at faces.

For me, having examined the evidence, I think the idea that it's only a minor coincidental resemblance strains credulity. It's too strong to be an accident.

ND artists quite possibly have tons of reference photos they use for various things, in some cases they might not even know who is in the photo -- I know because I do this, so it's entirely possible that the resemblance is not intentional but still not a coincidence.

Some very good copy/pasta by ND.

This is a silly statement. The amount of talent and hours that goes into a result like this is staggering, regardless what references they used.

 

[ravn0s]

There are some similarities but they still look like two different people to me.

 

[#1 defender]

They probably did. They are good at a lot of good things but their "inspiration" in terms of being influenced by other works/people is sometimes uncomprehensibly blatant.

Druckmann thinks he's the biggest genious of the industry then he comes up with things like Ellie = Ellen Page, Marlowe = Helen Mirren, Cutter = Jason Statham, the last minute of TLOU being exactly the same as that of The Road movie (which he says it wasn't even an inspiration, just the book), Uncharted 2 having A LOT of similarities with The Mummy 3, etc. And yes, as the game director, all of this getting in the final game is his responsability.

Not even surprised in the slightest that this woman's appareance was ripped off, because it absolutely was looking at these pictures and the studio's history.

They really don't need any of these and I don't understand how they aren't over it at this point. It really is blaffing.

In the case of Cutter and Marlowe, i can see how Statham and Mirren would be the go-to comparisons if you're looking for well known celebrity lookalikes, but i'd say the more obvious inspiration for the character designs would be their actors:

 

[Black Republican]

ive never seen a black woman analyzed so much on Gaf, and it isnt even February!

 

[Business]

There are differences but they do look alike.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

Here you go OP, sneak peek at the new and revised credits

LOL!

Got me to laugh out loud at work, jerkus.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

That tweet is fake! Too much battery left!

Besides, every character design is going to resemble someone famous.

Uhh, no

 

[WarMacheen]

This thread reminds me of the raw deal her character got on BSG.

Fuck you Lee Adama

 

[DeepEnigma]

What's with the double post?

Ok, this cracked me up. Well played people.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Lighting aside, I'd love to hear how that looks "nothing like her".

There's a detailed analysis on the facial differences by a photographer right in this thread. Why not start there.

I want to say anyone who thinks this is trolling, but some people just aren't good at recognizing and sorting faces. My brother routinely sees people on TV or movies and thinks they're someone else. He thought Channing Tatum was in San Andreas. Some people just aren't good at faces.

For me, having examined the evidence, I think the idea that it's only a minor coincidental resemblance strains credulity. It's too strong to be an accident.

ND artists quite possibly have tons of reference photos they use for various things, in some cases they might not even know who is in the photo -- I know because I do this, so it's entirely possible that the resemblance is not intentional but still not a coincidence.

What about her face is the same to you?

 

[ShutterMunster]

She looks like she could be Kandyse's older sister. It's not as close as the original Ellie/Ellen Page situation, but there are definite similarities.

 

[J-Skee]

Forget all the lookalike talk, Kandyse is sexy as hell.

 

[googleplex]

When I did see her in the reveal I actually thought she looked a lot like Naomie Harris who play Miss Moneypenny in the new James Bond films. I think it's the Jawline and hair plus I thought her accent sounded british/Australian first time I heard her speak.

Now this looks much closer. I'm not seeing much of a similarity in the OP other than being Black, Female with Curly hair to be honest.

 

[DevilFox]

Uhhh, what?




This confirms that it was enough of an issue that QD did end up talking to ND about it. They arrived at the conclusion together that Ellie's model needs to be changed to look less like Ellen Page (ND "had to"). ND changes her while trying to also improve aspects at the same time, resulting in a better model too.

You mean in 2013 when the model was already changed (see this interview from 2012), before the AMA that started the fuss? It's a detail and I wasn't interested in the Ellie - Page debate back then, but help me out here because I'm not convinced. How hard can it be to say "so we had to ask ND to change the model"? He said they had to change it, and indeed they did because of internet's reaction (and other artistic choices), with the news reported everywhere with nice titles such as "Naughty Dog ripped off my likeness!", but you're saying that QD literally picked up the phone and said "Evan, yo, how you doing? Look, your Ellie looks a little too much like Ellen Page so.. yeah.. change it, because she's our model. Au revoir!" which is unlikely if you ask me. If you still believe that the final model of Ellie is based on Page, please look at Ashley Johnson and try to take back 20 years from her.. it really is a debate based on assumptions, in my opinion, and you can see the difference just by looking at Jodie which is THE 3D model for Page.
That's my take on this story and this Nadine debate is no different, as no different was Cutter - McTavish - Statham and the others. It's not hard to make a model that looks like a real person even when you start from a different model as inspiration. Again, there are a lot of examples in gaming already and the better you're at modeling 3D characters, the more realistic looking you make them, the easier will be to find a resemblance.

 

[Alienous]

Why even defer to photographers?

It's a fairly simple case of 'Do you think this person looks like this character'? Then throw in that the person in question is South African, like the character is.

It isn't an objective thing. Even if Nadine was based on Kandyse a model wouldn't be 100% accurate.

 

[googleplex]

They obviously share similarities, but there are also notable differences too. I doubt it was an intentional resemblance.

Cross-race effect

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

Here you go OP, sneak peek at the new and revised credits

Added to OP cause this is the bow/cherry on top to this carnival. Lol

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Cross-race effect

Huh. Didn't know there was a term for this. TIL.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Cross-race effect

Thanks for the read. Heard about this before in discussions, just never knew the term for it.

 

[maquiladora]

Ya'll care about this way more than she does. She tweeted about it a total of two times, both replies to someone asking her what she thought about it, one tweet with a mock hashtag and the other ending in "lol".

There is no controversy.

The only thing to come out of this is that her Twitter probably sucks to use now that gamers are clogging up her mentions.

Exactly, the only two replies from her are one to the OP's tweet to her and a reply to a tweet from a mysterious account that seems to have been created just to ask her a very similar question to the OP's question, sent exactly one minute after the OP's tweet....An account that followed nobody, and only had that 1 tweet to it's name....

 

[zsynqx]

Exactly, the only two replies from her are one to the OP's tweet to her and a reply to a tweet from a mysterious account that seems to have been created just to ask her a very similar question to the OP's question, sent exactly one minute after the OP's tweet....An account that followed nobody, and only had that 1 tweet to it's name....

Must be the FBI

 

[Garrett Hawke]

OP did you create a second twitter account when you tweeted her about this? Just curious why? Just referencing your post here where you post a screenshot of your tweet to her asking this :

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=187950981&postcount=1487

There are two tweets to her in your screenshot, yours and a "Katy", @Unch4rted_Fan, an account that was just created, has only made one tweet, that was 1 minute before your tweet.

The dualshockers article mentions "some fans" contacted her about this but they show just your tweet and this 'Katy'.

It's not OP, and I'm sure the OP doesn't appreciate the detective work. I made it to ask her because I didn't want that shit traced back to my actual Twitter when it inevitably got posted on GAF. I'm Unch4rted_fan. I'm Katy.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

I still say the nose, lips, and eyes taken regardless of the shape of the face or eyebrows are close enough to make considering her an inspiration not outlandish. We're not in Resident Evil: Outbreak territory here or anything, but it's not like people are crazy for suggesting it. Tweeting the actress was probably a bit much, though.

 

[Two Words]

Considering that Nathan Drake is basically Nathan Fillion, I'm not surprised.

 

[InsaneTiger]

I don't think it was intentional but our subconscious is very powerful.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Young Nathan Fillion looks kinda like young Ewan McGregor

Fireflyspotting

 

[eso76]

They are different and they share similarities.

Point is, while it's very easy to change features like cheekbones shape and jawline and make a face look entirely different, those similarities are not something that happen unintentionally.

You don't unintentionally model an almost perfectly matching nose, mouth or profile. You don't model a nose with no reference and it somehow turns out to be a perfect match for an existing nose.
It might be bigger, smaller, or wider, but the amount of 'data' in the shape of a nose is so huge it would take an impossible amount of coincidences.

I say Kandyse (or parts of her face) was taken as reference, but they ended up with a character that doesn't really look like her, because ND didn't want Nadine to look like her (or any of their characters to look like models, in fact)

 

[dragonbane]

You mean in 2013 when the model was already changed (see this interview from 2012), before the AMA that started the fuss? It's a detail and I wasn't interested in the Ellie - Page debate back then, but help me out here because I'm not convinced. How hard can it be to say "so we had to ask ND to change the model"? He said they had to change it, and indeed they did because of internet's reaction (and other artistic choices), with the news reported everywhere with nice titles such as "Naughty Dog ripped off my likeness!", but you're saying that QD literally picked up the phone and said "Evan, yo, how you doing? Look, your Ellie looks a little too much like Ellen Page so.. yeah.. change it, because she's our model. Au revoir!" which is unlikely if you ask me. If you still believe that the final model of Ellie is based on Page, please look at Ashley Johnson and try to take back 20 years from her.. it really is a debate based on assumptions, in my opinion, and you can see the difference just by looking at Jodie which is THE 3D model for Page.
That's my take on this story and this Nadine debate is no different, as no different was Cutter - McTavish - Statham and the others. It's not hard to make a model that looks like a real person even when you start from a different model as inspiration. Again, there are a lot of examples in gaming already and the better you're at modeling 3D characters, the more realistic looking you make them, the easier will be to find a resemblance.

Well, back in May 2012 Beyond wasn't announced yet, so ND obviously wouldn't be allowed to mention the real reason why the model was changed. I personally think ND used Sony's/QD's request to change the model as a chance to improve things about it (make her look a bit younger and more like Ashley), so it probably actually turned out convenient for them, hence they probably agreed to change her in the first place instead of defending their artistic choice. I think the final model looks nothing like Ellen Page no, but the first one does imo.

I mean, the wording from the GDF interview is very clear. "He hasn't talked to ND about it since". Yes, this confirms QD indeed picked up the phone and started a conversation, there is no other way to interpret this sentence, they did talk to each other at some point. GDF doesn't say they had to change her because of internet reactions, he explicitly says they had to make her look less like Ellen Page, because QD had Ellen Page. Also, very clear.

What I think went down is this: The Last of Us gets unveiled. People immediately think she is modelled after Ellen Page and articles appear everywhere. People tweet Ellen Page and ask her about it. She is confused, because at this point she is already in the process of recording motion capture for Beyond, another game published by Sony. Ellen calls QD about it. QD calls ND/Sony about it and ask if they could adjust the model to look less like Ellen. ND initially clarifies that Ellie is played by Ashley Johnson and are compelled themselves to adjust the model because of the internet reactions and maybe artistic vision too. The call from QD/Sony seals the deal and they alter the model. External reasoning at this point is solely artistic vision, as Beyond isn't announced yet. Beyond gets announced and GDF reveals later on they were in talks with ND about it. The End.

Later on Ellen Page does an AMA on reddit and gets reminded of her confusion a long time ago, saying she was flattered, but didn't really appreciate that awkward situation, hence she probably called QD about it. I doubt Ellen is someone to rush to legal action, considering how cool she appears. She probably gets informed afterwards that ND actually did change the model and Ellie looks nothing like her now, so she decides to cool some heads by giving Ashley Johnson a warm shout-out on twitter.

I do not think ill about ND for any of this btw.

 

[gamerMan]

They are different and they share similarities.

Point is, while it's very easy to change features like cheekbones shape and jawline and make a face look entirely different, those similarities are not something that happen unintentionally.

You don't unintentionally model an almost perfectly matching nose, mouth or profile. You don't model a nose with no reference and it somehow turns out to be a perfect match for an existing nose.
It might be bigger, smaller, or wider, but the amount of 'data' in the shape of a nose is so huge it would take an impossible amount of coincidences.

I say Kandyse (or parts of her face) was taken as reference, but they ended up with a character that doesn't really look like her, because ND didn't want Nadine to look like her (or any of their characters to look like models, in fact)

Yah this could be a possibility and don't think there is anything wrong with it. It's not like you just pull a human being out of hat. Modellers always grab reference photos all the time. I'm pretty sure a lot of reference photos were used. A lot of the Naughty Dog models usually look like the voice actors but they are not exact matches. You are not going to be able to line up the pictures, but it is pretty easy to see the resemblance.

Or it could be that some people just want to see Kandyse McClure in her.

 

[stilgar]

Black woman sorta looks kind of like another black woman, news at eleven.

This is bound to happen when you pursue realistic graphics.

Im late, but this is fantastic.

 

[2+2=5]

Maybe she was used as base but the final model was modified enough on purpose to not run into problems?

 

[Basketball]

was this a stealth black people look alike thread

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Yah this could be a possibility and don't think there is anything wrong with it. It's not like you just pull a human being out of hat. Modellers always grab reference photos all the time. I'm pretty sure a lot of reference photos were used. A lot of the Naughty Dog models usually look like the voice actors but they are not exact matches. You are not going to be able to line up the pictures, but it is pretty easy to see the resemblance.

René Auberjonois was Karl!?!?! Sheesh, I'm learning things left and right today!

Or it could be that some people just want to see Kandyse McClure in her.

Lawd. I do want it now.

 

[Ricky_R]

Drake would hit that easily.

Sorry Elena.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Drake would hit that easily.

Sorry Elena.

Spoiler

How dare you ;_;

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Considering that Nathan Drake is basically Nathan Fillion, I'm not surprised.

Wow I never saw this picture before. Hello Drake hahahah. I'm actually laughing at this. Crazy coincidence.

Or it could be that some people just want to see Kandyse McClure in her.

Wow this looks pretty cool. That Naughty Dog Engine (in that a real picture being added to a ingame screen doesn't look stupidly out of place).

 

[Straight Edge]

I legit thought she was supposed to be based on and acted by Rihanna.

 

[ShutterMunster]

Nathan Fillion looks nothing like Nathan Drake, period. How some can see resemblance there and not with Kandyse is beyond me. Y'all got to give up the ghost on that one. Oof.

 

[SaganIsGOAT]

I don't see shape

 

[eso76]

Yah this could be a possibility and don't think there is anything wrong with it. It's not like you just pull a human being out of hat. Modellers always grab reference photos all the time. I'm pretty sure a lot of reference photos were used.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that.
If you're going for realistic 3d models, even the most experienced artist can and will use reference photos. Unless he has time and money to waste.

Also, Kandyse is gorgeous.
But that's beyond the point.

 

[capitalCORN]

So all black women look the same to y'all? Shame on YOU!

 

[sappyday]

Yea they look similar. The actress is a lot more beautiful though.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Well, back in May 2012 Beyond wasn't announced yet, so ND obviously wouldn't be allowed to mention the real reason why the model was changed. I personally think ND used Sony's/QD's request to change the model as a chance to improve things about it (make her look a bit younger and more like Ashley), so it probably actually turned out convenient for them, hence they probably agreed to change her in the first place instead of defending their artistic choice. I think the final model looks nothing like Ellen Page no, but the first one does imo.

I mean, the wording from the GDF interview is very clear. "He hasn't talked to ND about it since". Yes, this confirms QD indeed picked up the phone and started a conversation, there is no other way to interpret this sentence, they did talk to each other at some point. GDF doesn't say they had to change her because of internet reactions, he explicitly says they had to make her look less like Ellen Page, because QD had Ellen Page. Also, very clear.

What I think went down is this: The Last of Us gets unveiled. People immediately think she is modelled after Ellen Page and articles appear everywhere. People tweet Ellen Page and ask her about it. She is confused, because at this point she is already in the process of recording motion capture for Beyond, another game published by Sony. Ellen calls QD about it. QD calls ND/Sony about it and ask if they could adjust the model to look less like Ellen. ND initially clarifies that Ellie is played by Ashley Johnson and are compelled themselves to adjust the model because of the internet reactions and maybe artistic vision too. The call from QD/Sony seals the deal and they alter the model. External reasoning at this point is solely artistic vision, as Beyond isn't announced yet. Beyond gets announced and GDF reveals later on they were in talks with ND about it. The End.

Later on Ellen Page does an AMA on reddit and gets reminded of her confusion a long time ago, saying she was flattered, but didn't really appreciate that awkward situation, hence she probably called QD about it. I doubt Ellen is someone to rush to legal action, considering how cool she appears. She probably gets informed afterwards that ND actually did change the model and Ellie looks nothing like her now, so she decides to cool some heads by giving Ashley Johnson a warm shout-out on twitter.

I do not think ill about ND for any of this btw.

Great assessment. This seems very plausible.

 

[kpaadet]

Considering that Nathan Drake is basically Nathan Fillion, I'm not surprised.

Always thought Nathan Drake was inspired by Naughty Dog co-founder Jason Rubin. Too lazy to add pics.

 

[shacklesmcgee]

if it weren't for the MGS V Doctor look-a-like thread, this would be the most insane thread of 2015

they look nothing alike

 

[Slixshot]

Some of those pics in the OP are JUSTTTT blurry enough for me not to know if they're from the game or not :'D

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

was this a stealth black people look alike thread

Don't go there, man, c'mon.

 

[Griss]

Feel like I've seen enough of those gifs to confirm my first impression that the character and the actress really don't bear anything more than a passing similarity due to one or two features. The entire head / face 'shape' of each woman appears very different to me.

With the Ellie / Ellen Page thing I saw it immediately and thought it was pretty shameless. Not here.