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Nancy Pelosi = LIAR on day one

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GDJustin said:
I stopped reading there. I'm not even a republican (more of a libertarian these days), but many of you left-leaning gaffers have awful, awful attitudes in this topic.

It is NEVER EVER good to not engage the other side in a legislative debate, and it should never be applauded! F*ck the first 100 hours. How about... take as long as it takes to do the right thing and make the right decisions.

The "first 100 hours" is such an awful concept that it nearly makes me sick. What if you had a new boss come into your office and say "I'm going to do a TON of shit and make a ton of changes right away without discussing what's best with people outside of my small group of advisors!" People would really want to promote that person, eh? Ugh.

Edit: Yeah most of what's proposed in the first 100 hours seems good to me (stem cells, thank God), but I have no way of KNOWING whether it's all good or not because there's no discourse. I saw someone mention more subsidization for student loans in this topic, right? Yeah that sounds great, but what will the cost to the Gov. be for it? Or the taxpayer? Does anyone know, or is it just going to be passed, with no one asking? And then AFTER the fact they can sort out "details" like that?

What irresponsible lawmaking. It was irresponsible for the last 6 years and although I disagree with most of the left's politics, I at least hoped the democratic victory would initiate SOME sort of bipartisan revival instead of just being a group of... more assholes.


So let me get this straight, it's ok for Republicans to pass legislation for six years without consulting Democrats, but it isn't ok for Democrats to do it for 100 hours? Anyone with at least half a brain knows that just about everything on the agenda will benefit the middle-class more now than anything Republicans passed the last six years.

Minimum wage increase? Done. Lower interest on colleague loans? Done. Ethics reform? Done. Stem cell research funding (which most Americans support)? Done. Some of you guys needs to go back to grade school. The benefit of being in the majority is that you don't have to listen to the minority. Be greatful that they're only ignorning Republicans for 100 hours and not six years.
 
Man, I must be the only one old enough here to remember Bush Sr.'s "Read my lips" speech.
The government is not a college campus utopia, guys, it's the real world.
 
beermonkey@tehbias said:
I supported some of it because of the specific individual postions. I only support ideas, not parties. I oppose single-party rule so of course I'm mostly down on Repubs lately but I have supported many republican initiatives (and opposed tons of democrat initiatives) in the past.
I think that's the right attitude to have.
 
Seeing as how the 109th republican congress couldn't even do their very basic duty and pass spending bills (only 2 of 13 passed) and left it all for the democrats to fix (what else is new?), AND that pelosi is only using the same house rules crafted by republicans to get the JOB DONE (something else the GOP can't seem to do)...


WB-PVM03015.jpg




http://online.wsj.com/article/SB116537033474441872-email.html

Like a retreating army, Republicans are tearing up railroad track and planting legislative land mines to make it harder for Democrats to govern when they take power in Congress next month.

Already, the Republican leadership has moved to saddle the new Democratic majority with responsibility for resolving $463 billion in spending bills for the fiscal year that began Oct. 1. And the departing chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, Rep. Bill Thomas (R., Calif.), has been demanding that the Democrat-crafted 2008 budget absorb most of the $13 billion in costs incurred from a decision now to protect physician reimbursements under Medicare, the federal health-care program for the elderly and disabled.

The unstated goal is to disrupt the Democratic agenda and make it harder for the new majority to meet its promise to reinstitute "pay-as-you-go" budget rules, under which new costs or tax cuts must be offset to protect the deficit from growing.

"It's a demonstration of the irresponsibility of Republicans that they would leave this country with this mess," said the next House speaker, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.). "But we won, we will deal with it."

"What a sad mess," said Sen. Robert Byrd (D., W.Va).

I wonder why the republicans are getting left out, too bad the country is going to reap what the GOP sows.
 
I forgot to mention. With Republicans in power, congress was only in session on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. Democrats (being the workers that they are), said they're gonna be enforcing a five-day work week. Now, with as many problems as this country has, could you justify a three day work week for congress? I sure as hell can't. Now all politicians will do what most Americans do - work five days a week.
 
BobLoblaw said:
So let me get this straight, it's ok for Republicans to pass legislation for six years without consulting Democrats, but it isn't ok for Democrats to do it for 100 hours? Anyone with at least half a brain knows that just about everything on the agenda will benefit the middle-class more now than anything Republicans passed the last six years.

Minimum wage increase? Done. Lower interest on colleague loans? Done. Ethics reform? Done. Stem cell research funding (which most Americans support)? Done. Some of you guys needs to go back to grade school. The benefit of being in the majority is that you don't have to listen to the minority. Be greatful that they're only ignorning Republicans for 100 hours and not six years.

Stop being so defensive. From my post:

What irresponsible lawmaking. It was irresponsible for the last 6 years and...

etc etc. The democrats had a Golden opportunity to heal politics in this country. Or at least start down that path. They had an opportunity to be the better men/women and reach across the aisle. And instead they seem to have opted to perpetuate the same bullshit.

I am not anti-democrat. I'm anti partisan politics. And that's why this news makes me angry.

People should not be PRAISED for making decisions and passing laws very very quickly! How this can POSSIBLY be seen as a positive thing by anyone that isn't towing a party line is beyond me.
 
Minimum wage increase
Lower interest on colleague loans
Ethics reform
Stem cell research funding

They have all been talked about for the last 6 years, its time for action... **** what the GOP thinks, its time the middle class gets the same helping hand Exxon Mobil been getting for the last 6 yrs
 
GDJustin said:
People should not be PRAISED for making decisions and passing laws very very quickly! How this can POSSIBLY be seen as a positive thing by anyone that isn't towing a party line is beyond me.

Its not like these guys are making these laws up just now. These are concepts that have been abandoned far too long during the past six years. The first thing you do when you board a sinking ship is plug the holes. You don't have a conference meeting with the idiot crew to hear what they think you should do.
 
Flynn said:
Its not like these guys are making these laws up just now. These are concepts that have been abandoned far too long during the past six years. The first thing you do when you board a sinking ship is plug the holes. You don't have a conference meeting with the idiot crew to hear what they think you should do.

I strongly disagree. This country isn't going to implode if we don't get student loan reform RIGHT NOW IN THE NEXT 20 MINUTES.

It's never, ever good to not engage the other side. It wasn't good when the republicans were doing it, and it isn't good now.
 
GDJustin said:
Stop being so defensive. From my post:



etc etc. The democrats had a Golden opportunity to heal politics in this country. Or at least start down that path. They had an opportunity to be the better men/women and reach across the aisle. And instead they seem to have opted to perpetuate the same bullshit.

I am not anti-democrat. I'm anti partisan politics. And that's why this news makes me angry.

People should not be PRAISED for making decisions and passing laws very very quickly! How this can POSSIBLY be seen as a positive thing by anyone that isn't towing a party line is beyond me.

Agreed. Unfortunately I don't think anything would get done if the lines of communication were opened, so it becomes a two-edged sword. But yeah, I got tired of the bi-partisan shit a loooong time ago.

I wouldn't be too surprised if something got slipped through that goes undetected for weeks (if not months), and pisses people off when it eventually rises to the surface. Sure hope that isn't the case, but if it happens it'll be interesting to see the reactions then.
 
The point is...

DON'T ADVOCATE PARTISAN POLITICS.

That's what Pelosi's move is, and that's why I'm against it. It leads to legislation that isn't in the nation's best interests. Pushing bills through is such an awful idea I can't believe I'm sitting here arguing with people defending the practice.

These are LAWS being passed. They (presumably) will stand for decades. Legislation needs to germinate!

Ugh. This country is so effed.
 
Did you really expect 6 years of divisive partisan politics to completely disappear overnight? gonna take a little bit of time but i sure as hell have more faith in the dems doing it then the gop.
 
siamesedreamer said:
Worded it badly.......I think its a good idea that they are throwing it back in her lap. She wanted it when she was out of power. Let's see if she still wants it when she is in power.

This has to be a joke topic, right? Anyway, Republican's didn't want it when they were in power and now they're crying about civility and bipartisanship and lo and behold, they've even come around to the Pelosi position! What a funny thing, those elections. So sure they were in their electoral majority; so sure their policies wouldn't be rejected at the polls that they didn't even have the civiility (there's that word again) to simply respond to Pelosi's request. Btw, siames, another Pelosi intiative offered up before the elections was an order providing salary during their lame duck session to those legislative aids and assistants who once Jan 4th rolls around, would find themselves out of a job. Republicans, of course, sqaushed it. Now those same Republicans are grovelling to their Democratic overlords to inact Pelosi's work...

Funny.
 
GDJustin said:
The point is...

DON'T ADVOCATE PARTISAN POLITICS.

That's what Pelosi's move is, and that's why I'm against it. It leads to legislation that isn't in the nation's best interests.

You're implying that everyone has, or should have, the same goal: Some objective set of "the nation's best interests." What are these interests? Who gets to determine them? You?

The two political parties generally disagree philosophically on a number of things. No amount of talk is going to cover that up.

If a party wants to raise the minimum wage, and it has enough votes lined up to pass a bill, what is the point of a bipartisan compromise with a party that isn't friendly to the idea? You'll wind up with a watered down bill, or one that involves trading off other principles (overtime rules, corporate tax breaks, etc.).

Bipartisanship is useful, and often necessary, and compromise is a very powerful tool. But it's just that: a tool. The final legislation itself is the goal, and it's much more important than a chummy feeling among Congressional colleagues, or a general warm, fuzzy feeling of togetherness.

If someone wants to explain why bipartisanship, compromise, etc. are inherently good, I'm all ears.
 
Bush calls on Democrats to work with him

WASHINGTON - President Bush, facing a Democratic-controlled Congress for the first time, is urging lawmakers to work with his administration and warning that "political statements" in the form of legislation would result in a stalemate.

"Together, we have a chance to serve the American people by solving the complex problems that many don't expect us to tackle, let alone solve, in the partisan environment of today's Washington," Bush wrote in a guest column for The Wall Street Journal posted on the newspaper's Web site Tuesday night.

"To do that, however, we can't play politics as usual," he said. "Democrats will control the House and Senate, and therefore we share the responsibility for what we achieve."

Bush, while sounding a tone of bipartisanship on the eve of the new session of Congress that begins Thursday, repeated long-held positions on the war in Iraq, tax cuts and other issues often criticized by Democrats. He has vetoed only one bill, but he reminded readers that the Constitution calls on the president to use his judgment in deciding which bills to sign into law.

"If the Congress chooses to pass bills that are simply political statements, they will have chosen stalemate," Bush wrote. "If a different approach is taken, the next two years can be fruitful ones for our nation. We can show the American people that Republicans and Democrats can come together to find ways to help make America a more secure, prosperous and hopeful society."


Bush planned to meet with his Cabinet to discuss domestic priorities on Wednesday and to court key lawmakers at a social reception that evening. He is under pressure to announce a new Iraq strategy, although officials say he is still making decisions and will not reveal any changes this week, and is expected to say he is sending additional U.S. troops to Iraq.

Wednesday's schedule represents Bush's official return to work after a Christmas vacation at his Texas ranch. Bush spoke at the funeral of President Ford on Tuesday but remained out of sight the remainder of the day.

In a seismic shift of power, Democrats will claim control of both the House and Senate on Thursday for the first time in 12 years. Eager for their turn at power, Democrats have complained that Bush has kept them at arms length and has not consulted on key decisions. Even a senior Republican, Sen. Richard Lugar (news, bio, voting record) of Indiana, said on Sunday that Bush has been inclined "to not take Congress very seriously" on Iraq policy.

Bush invited about a dozen members of Congress — Democrats and Republicans alike — and their spouses to a reception Wednesday evening. Officials said it was a social gathering, not what Bush was talking about last week when he said he planned more consultations with Congress before announcing a new Iraq plan. The consultations will take place later, officials said.

In recent weeks, Bush has signaled a willingness to go along with a Democratic priority for raising the minimum wage, if it is accompanied by tax and regulatory relief for small businesses. Bush also has suggested that progress could be made on an immigration policy overhaul, including a way for some illegal workers to move toward citizenship. That was stymied this year primarily by conservative Republicans who favored a get-tough-only approach.

In the Wall Street Journal column, Bush cited as a priority helping Iraq gain full control over its affairs.

"We now have the opportunity to build a bipartisan consensus to fight and win the war," he wrote. (Ed: Because the opportunity wasn't there....when exactly?)

Bush said he would submit a budget in February that would make tax cuts permanent and lead to a balanced budget by 2012, which he contended would put the country in a better position to tackle the challenge of changing the Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid programs. He also said he would offer his own plan for dealing with pork-barrel spending by Congress and ask for a line-item veto.


White House spokesman David Almacy said that Bush has used the forum of a newspaper guest column, or "op-ed," at least four other times during his presidency: to commemorate the first anniversary of the 2001 terror attacks; to promote his re-election in 2004; to mark his second inaugural, in 2005; and again in 2005 to note the U.S. response to the Indian Ocean tsunami.
 
This is the same woman who said we should use the Golden Rule when dealing with terrorists, doesn't surprise me at all.
 
siamesedreamer said:
FWIW, REPS didn't have control for the past six years - the DEMs had control of the Senate in Bush's first two years.

You're talking about Nancy Pelosi, the incoming House Speaker. This whole thread has been about the House. Does Nancy Pelosi control legislation in the Senate, siamese? Have the Republicans controlled the House since 1994? No one is talking about the Senate which by its very nature, is a more bipartisan and collegial enviroment than the House. Also, it would be helpful if you at least understood the dramatic steps the Republican majority took to ensure that the minority had absolutely no say in anything. I mean, look at CAFTA for instance. Or the Medicare expansion bill. That's simply the tip of the iceberg. So don't come in here lamenting that mean 'ol bug-eyed liberal Nancy Pelosi is destroying the fabled institution of the House by implenting legislation that a majority of Americans support and indeed, voted to inact said policies. Spare us the crocodile tears.
 
I know evil-red socialist territory, and Pelosi isn't quite near it. She's not nearly authoritarian enough (certainly not enough for my tastes).

As for Bush, mindless escalation of the Iraq War sure was a great way to kick off a bipartisan new year. Here's a protip you inbred moron-you don't call the GOP shots anymore. If Dems want to cut a deal, we'll have to go through McConnell anyway, who will thumbs up or thumbs down the bill anyway.

Just shut up and sign the bills, and maybe your party want go down to another burning wreck of a defeat in 2008 in its merry march to a strictly regional power.
 
Read up, Siamese!

By Susan Milligan, Globe Staff | October 3, 2004

First of three parts

WASHINGTON -- Dismayed that the technology company Accenture had located its headquarters in Bermuda, thereby avoiding paying hundreds of millions of dollars in US taxes, the House Appropriations Committee voted 35-17 this summer to strip the firm of a $10 billion Homeland Security contract.
ADVERTISEMENT


It was a rare moment of bipartisan agreement and an important victory for those who decry corporate tax loopholes. But it didn't last long. The Rules Committee, the all-powerful gatekeeper of the Republican leadership, prevented the measure from reaching the House floor. In a further show of its power to pick and choose what the full House can vote on, the Rules Committee allowed the House to vote on a ban on future Homeland Security contracts to overseas companies -- but let the $10 billion flow to Accenture, which spent $2 million last year lobbying the government.

The Accenture episode is emblematic of the way business is conducted in the 108th Congress, where a Republican leadership has sidelined legislation unwanted by the Bush administration, even when a majority of the House seemed ready to approve it, according to lawmakers, lobbyists, and an analysis of House activities. With one party controlling the White House and both chambers of Congress, and having little fear of retaliation by the opposing party, the House leadership is changing the way laws are made in America, favoring secrecy and speed over open debate and negotiation. Longstanding rules and practices are ignored. Committees more often meet in secret. Members are less able to make changes to legislation on the House floor. Bills come up for votes so quickly that elected officials frequently don't know what's in them. And there is less time to discuss proposed laws before they come up for a vote.

"There is no legislative process anymore," said Fred Wertheimer, the legendary open-government activist who has been monitoring Congress since 1963. "Bills are decided in advance of going to the floor."


Republicans counter that Democrats, too, used their power to get their way when they were in the majority, and Democrats acknowledge that they sometimes used procedures to their advantage. It was the Democrats, for example, who changed the makeup of the Rules Committee to give disproportionate clout to the majority party.

But longtime Congress-watchers say they have never seen the legislative process so closed to input from minority-party members, the public, and lobbyists whose agenda is unsympathetic to GOP leadership goals.

Interviews with scores of lawmakers, lobbyists, and citizen activists reflect a growing frustration with what has become a closed shop in Washington. Among the Globe's findings:

# The House Rules Committee, which is meant to tweak the language in bills that come out of committee, sometimes rewrites key passages of legislation approved by other committees, then forbids members from changing the bills on the floor. Only five times this year were House members allowed to amend policy bills on the floor, and only 15 percent of bills this year were open to amendment. For the entire 108th Congress, just 28 percent of total bills have been open to amendment -- barely more than half of what Democrats allowed in their last session in power in 1993-94. Further, the Rules Committee has blocked floor votes on legislation opposed by the Bush administration but supported by a majority of the House. For example, a bill to extend benefits to the long-term unemployed has been kept off the House floor despite what backers say is the support of a bipartisan majority.

# The Rules Committee commonly holds sessions late at night or in the wee hours of the morning, earning the nickname "the Dracula Congress" by critical Democrats and keeping some lawmakers quite literally in the dark about the legislation put before them. On the Patient's Bill of Rights legislation in 2001, for example, the Rules Committee made a one-word change in the middle of the night that drastically limited the liability of HMOs that deny coverage to their patients. The measure was hustled through the House hours later, with few lawmakers aware of the change.

# Congressional conference committees, charged with reconciling differences between House- and Senate-passed versions of the same legislation, have become dramatically more powerful in shaping bills. The panels, made up of a small group of lawmakers appointed by leaders in both parties, added a record 3,407 "pork barrel" projects to appropriations bills for this year's federal budget, items that were never debated or voted on beforehand by the House and Senate and whose congressional patrons are kept secret. This compares to just 47 projects added in conference committee in 1994, the last year of Democratic control.

# Bills are increasingly crafted behind closed doors, and on two major pieces of legislation -- the Medicare and energy bills -- few Democrats were allowed into the critical conference committee meetings, sessions that historically have been bipartisan. The energy bill -- a sweeping package meant to lay out a national energy policy -- started in closed-door meetings held by Vice President Dick Cheney's Energy Task Force and was written in private sessions on Capitol Hill that excluded all Democrats. On the Medicare negotiations, only two Democrats -- both already supportive of the bill -- were included.

# The amount of time spent openly debating bills has dropped dramatically, and lawmakers are further hamstrung by an abbreviated schedule that gives them little time to fully examine a bill before voting on it. The House typically holds no votes until Tuesday evenings -- and then usually on noncontroversial items such as the renaming of post offices -- then adjourns for the week by Thursday afternoon. The Iraq war resolution was debated just two days in 2002; the defense authorization bill, which customarily undergoes weeks of floor discussion, was debated and voted on this year in two days.

Lawmakers say they are still finding items in the Medicare package that passed last winter that they find objectionable, such as the financial penalty on seniors who wait to sign up for the Medicare prescription drug plan.

"There was no way that every member of Congress could hold up their right hand and say, `I read every page of that bill before the vote,' " said Nita Lowey, a New York Democrat, noting that members had just one day to examine the 400-plus-page bill before voting on a law that would change health-care allotments across the country.

# The dearth of debate and open dealing in the House has given a crucial advantage to a select group of industry lobbyists who are personally close to decision-makers in Congress. A Globe study of lobbying showed that on the Medicare and energy bills, businesses and other groups who reported lobbying on the two measures spent a staggering $799,091,391 in efforts to influence lawmakers, frequently employing former members of Congress, former staff members, and relatives of lawmakers to lobby on the bills.

Representative David Dreier, a California Republican who is chairman of the Rules Committee, defended the majority party's tactics and said both parties have historically used their superior numbers to promote their issues.

"We have the majority, we won the election, we have an obligation to move our agenda," Dreier said. The panel acts fairly to the minority party, he added, saying, "There's a real mischaracterization of what took place in the past, compared to what it is now."


Many current and former Republican members contend that Democrats used similar procedural tactics when they held the majority. For example, former Pennsylvania Representative Robert Walker, a Republican, said he was frequently shut out of conference committee talks on science legislation when the Democrats ruled the House.

But an examination of debate schedules and activities by conference committees and the House Rules Committee reveals a more strikingly closed process than in the past, a trend that has even some Republicans complaining.

That's simply the beginning of part one. Here is Part two and three.

I'm going to quote again this little gem from the article, it's simply too good to pass up.

Representative David Dreier, a California Republican who is chairman of the Rules Committee, defended the majority party's tactics and said both parties have historically used their superior numbers to promote their issues.

"We have the majority, we won the election, we have an obligation to move our agenda," Dreier said. The panel acts fairly to the minority party, he added, saying, "There's a real mischaracterization of what took place in the past, compared to what it is now."

Frankly, the GOP should be thankful for ANY olive-branch extended by the Democrats.
 
threeball said:
Pelosi is so far to the left of the political spectrum that she treads communist territory.
[pats head]

i wonder if you'll gain any perspective once you attend college.
 
Hey, to the victor goes the spoils, but it's pretty clear that this makes all the frantic hyperventilating about the evil and divisive Republican Congress oh just a wee bit hypocritical; not to mention the CONSTANT refrain of, "oh so now we're just as bad as [x]" whenever there's any discussion of ANYTHING having to do with US policy over the last couple of years--I guess though when you get into power, yes, those petty concerns about being "just as bad as [x]" get tossed out the window in favor of political expediency. How completely unpredictable an outcome, and how completely it reveals the petty and disgusting nature of the "oh I'll just say anything that will cause damage" brigade who defends it. At least Mandark has always been consistent about not giving a shit about working with the other side, or about debate, or compromise in general, so long as your side wins, and your policies get enacted.
 
DarienA said:
OP please stop you're f'n whining.
OMG, STOP DEM FROM INCREAZING MINIMAL WAGE!! SCREW JOO, POE PEOPLZ!

So, if Republicans have alternatives to raising minimum wage, cutting interest on student loans and more research on stem cells, maybe people don't want to hear them. They've had the house/senate for the last 6 years, at least. Now, we don't want to hear their ideas.

This doesn't mean they are throwing out republicans opinions. Hell, the lead is only like one seat in the senate.
 
I don't like this idea because it hampers democracy and a functioning Republic.

Then again, the 108th and 109th has been the most undemocratic congresses of all time.

I just hope after this 100 hours, that things return to normal. Its pretty embarrassing to have people in the House act like babies.
 
APF said:
Hey, to the victor goes the spoils, but it's pretty clear that this makes all the frantic hyperventilating about the evil and divisive Republican Congress oh just a wee bit hypocritical; not to mention the CONSTANT refrain of, "oh so now we're just as bad as [x]" whenever there's any discussion of ANYTHING having to do with US policy over the last couple of years--I guess though when you get into power, yes, those petty concerns about being "just as bad as [x]" get tossed out the window in favor of political expediency. How completely unpredictable an outcome, and how completely it reveals the petty and disgusting nature of the "oh I'll just say anything that will cause damage" brigade who defends it. At least Mandark has always been consistent about not giving a shit about working with the other side, or about debate, or compromise in general, so long as your side wins, and your policies get enacted.

On point.
 
APF said:
Hey, to the victor goes the spoils, but it's pretty clear that this makes all the frantic hyperventilating about the evil and divisive Republican Congress oh just a wee bit hypocritical; not to mention the CONSTANT refrain of, "oh so now we're just as bad as [x]" whenever there's any discussion of ANYTHING having to do with US policy over the last couple of years--I guess though when you get into power, yes, those petty concerns about being "just as bad as [x]" get tossed out the window in favor of political expediency. How completely unpredictable an outcome, and how completely it reveals the petty and disgusting nature of the "oh I'll just say anything that will cause damage" brigade who defends it. At least Mandark has always been consistent about not giving a shit about working with the other side, or about debate, or compromise in general, so long as your side wins, and your policies get enacted.

gold star
 
Incognito said:
Frankly, the GOP should be thankful for ANY olive-branch extended by the Democrats.

I'm aware of the strongarm tactics employed by the corrupt REPs who just got their asses handed to them. But, two wrongs don't make a right - especially when the actions of your first day in power are in direct contradiction of what you preached after before, during, and after the election.

But hey, I guess I should just "suck it down". Afterall, one party rule without input from the minority has proven to be a wonderous thing over the past 4 years hasn't it?
 
I'm a bit uneasy about this development. Naturally, I'm glad to see the Democrats push through their agenda, and it is their prerogative, but if it comes at the expense of genuine discourse, maybe it's not such a great idea. The Republicans have stifled any of that for the past 6 years, and the biggest change that could happen to Washington at this point is for it to become more transparent.

I don't especially like the argument that since Republicans did it, it's okay. Look where that's gotten us.
 
kablooey said:
I'm a bit uneasy about this development. Naturally, I'm glad to see the Democrats push through their agenda, and it is their prerogative, but if it comes at the expense of genuine discourse, maybe it's not such a great idea. The Republicans have stifled any of that for the past 6 years, and the biggest change that could happen to Washington at this point is for it to become more transparent.

I don't especially like the argument that since Republicans did it, it's okay. Look where that's gotten us.

Exactly.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
APF said:
Hey, to the victor goes the spoils, but it's pretty clear that this makes all the frantic hyperventilating about the evil and divisive Republican Congress oh just a wee bit hypocritical; not to mention the CONSTANT refrain of, "oh so now we're just as bad as [x]" whenever there's any discussion of ANYTHING having to do with US policy over the last couple of years--I guess though when you get into power, yes, those petty concerns about being "just as bad as [x]" get tossed out the window in favor of political expediency. How completely unpredictable an outcome, and how completely it reveals the petty and disgusting nature of the "oh I'll just say anything that will cause damage" brigade who defends it. At least Mandark has always been consistent about not giving a shit about working with the other side, or about debate, or compromise in general, so long as your side wins, and your policies get enacted.
I feel that I have been consistent in advocating that Republican lawmakers and party members should be put in re-education camps for years now. The Democrats are being too easy on them, as usual.
 
Triumph Dolomite 1300cc said:
I feel that I have been consistent in advocating that Republican lawmakers and party members should be put in re-education camps for years now. The Democrats are being too easy on them, as usual.
Fair enough.
 
ronito said:

clap clap clap.....fvk bi-partisanship. the people have spoken, the voters handed the legislative branch back to Democrats because they're tired of Republican shit.

Shutting up the Republicans was the will of the people and this should be reflected by the newly elected Senate and Congress.

AMERICA....FVUK YEAH!!!!
 
siamesedreamer said:
But hey, I guess I should just "suck it down". Afterall, one party rule without input from the minority has proven to be a wonderous thing over the past 4 years hasn't it?

Uh, the dems don't have enough seats to actually get anything done in the Senate without republican cooperation given the way the Senate rules are set up.

And you still have that jackass in the White House.

So we're not going to have anything resembling one party rule for the next couple of years.

And yeah, you should suck it down.
 
monchi-kun said:
clap clap clap.....fvk bi-partisanship. the people have spoken, the voters handed the legislative branch back to Democrats because they're tired of Republican shit.

Shutting up the Republicans was the will of the people and this should be reflected by the newly elected Senate and Congress.

AMERICA....FVUK YEAH!!!!

Voters Seeing Less Blue, Less Red

There's now a bit of optimism in the country that there will be cooperation in Washington. Fifty percent in the latest CBS News poll think Democrats and the president will work together, outnumbering the 40 percent who think they won't. For those expecting cooperation, it's probably not because the politicians say it will happen – they usually say that after an election – but maybe because last week's results were yet another reminder that so many Americans simply don't follow the "Red vs. Blue," "Divided America" playbook. Maybe they hope the 110th Congress won't either.

Not only did moderates vote for Democrats last week, but perhaps just as importantly going forward, moderates Democrats outnumbered liberals among the party's voters by 51 percent to 38 percent, according to CBS News exit polls. (The same was true of Democrats in 2004, though this time their party is called on to govern.) That mix had a lot to do with the fact that the vaunted red-blue lines didn't define the results in this election. Senate control changed hands due to wins by moderate Democratic candidates in "red" states like Montana and Virginia, which President Bush won in 2004 by 20 and 9 points, respectively. In fact, four of the six Senate turnovers were in states Mr. Bush won in '04. In the House, Democrats owe their new majority primarily to turnovers in districts inside blue states, but scored many wins in red states like Indiana and Arizona, too.

As they typically do in general elections, self-described moderates (47 percent of the electorate) outdistanced both conservatives (32 percent) and liberals (20 percent) last week, and were a slightly higher proportion of the electorate than in 2004. Though the exit polls didn't measure strength of ideology, CBS News polls from earlier this year did, and strong ideologues were relatively uncommon: less than one in five Americans considers themselves to be one. That includes the one in 20 who call themselves "very liberal," and the one in ten who say they're "very conservative." Most who subscribe to an ideology describe themselves as only "somewhat" liberal or "somewhat" conservative.

Cooperation, though, is about more than just deferring to the majority. It demands that opposing sides respect each other's positions. Among the public, there is some of that respect. Earlier this year, our CBS News polls asked America's liberals whether they thought conservatives' beliefs and ideas, even if they disagreed with them, were reasonable or unreasonable. By 60 percent to 32 percent, a striking 2-to-1 margin, liberals said conservatives' views were reasonable. Half of conservatives, in turn, said the same of liberals' views. All told, more than half of ideological Americans – those who call themselves either liberal or conservative – put a positive characterization on the views of their opponents.

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this may sound strange, but why not see how Pelosi, Reid, and crew actually handle Congress before people whine, bitch, complain or cheer?

one thing's for sure - Pelosi is no Delay, and that's a good thing for everyone involved.
 
scorcho said:
[pats head]

i wonder if you'll gain any perspective once you attend college.

Uh oh...looks like we have one of those college know-it-all hippies...better kill him before he attracts more and we have a full-on guitar circle.
 
Glad to see the Pelosi as Boogeyman meme is in full effect. I was worried that right wingers looking for a new scapegoat were off their game a bit.
 
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