-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Nasa funded study: Industrial civilization headed towards irreversible collapse
- Thread starter Noirulus
- Start date
- Status
Ted Striker
Neo Member
Interstellar : The prequel.
Joel Was Right
If you smell burning, it's probably the generators acting up. Report it anyway.
We will not change our way of life until we're at the precipice of extinction. It says a great deal about our species that we are so destructive we'll even destroy ourselves.
No, not at all, people are starting to suffer cuts on their wages specially here on europe and that eventually will take it's effect on the political landscape and already is. Social Democrat parties are reviewing their ideologies to return to a more classical social democracy or being completely replaced by new parties that seek that classical social democracy, things are already changing, unfortunly we still have many austerity priest in power crushing the economy, but their reign will end someday
FriedConsole
Banned
People have been telling me society is going to collapse for almost 40 years and it just keeps getting better.
SMH at the people who want the human despair of a collapse because they think it will be the only way to get a "equal" society that will never be equal.
SMH at the people who want the human despair of a collapse because they think it will be the only way to get a "equal" society that will never be equal.
Has it really been getting better, though? In terms of technology and connectedness, sure, but Income inequality is crazy, and think about how difficult it is to find jobs for new grads now than it was 40 years ago, and how homes are more expensive than ever.
Elfforkusu
Member
I don't know how many people actually want a collapse. Collapse probably means the end of humanity as a spacefaring species (and we barely qualify).
Predicting is another story. We need to understand where we're headed to change direction.
LoveCake
Member
There is such a thing as the Kardashev Scale http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale which ranks civilization's level of technological advancement, based on the amount of energy a civilization is able to utilize.
There is a reason that we have not detected aliens & it is theorized that the transition from type 0 to type 1 is the most difficult to attain.
Michio Kaku explains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n-tTst-vyQ
There is a reason that we have not detected aliens & it is theorized that the transition from type 0 to type 1 is the most difficult to attain.
Michio Kaku explains https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9n-tTst-vyQ
Elfforkusu
Member
To me the often ignored possibility is that aliens aren't dumbasses who broadcast unencrypted radio signals everywhere.
By the time we make the leap (or fail miserably), we won't be broadcasting unencrypted radio signals everywhere either. Cryptography looks random, if you're looking for patterns in an encrypted signal you won't find shit...
FriedConsole
Banned
Sure there are new problems but all the statistics on starvation and homelessness are on the decline. Income inequality and not getting a job after graduation are first world problems. Things like widespread famine killing thousands of people don't happen anymore. I frankly don't give a shit if someone has more money than me.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
The resources won't last. No one wants to slow down.
The question is, what happens when things start running out? Well, we have pretty much no reason to assume that we won't start killing each other en masse.
The question is, what happens when things start running out? Well, we have pretty much no reason to assume that we won't start killing each other en masse.
Angryharlot
Banned
Maybe, I am reading it wrong but I read the Elites as most westerners and the Commoners as citizens of developing nations. Especially in regards to consumption. It seems a bit irresponsible to just chalk the whole damn thing to those 1%ers. A lot of us are really fucking comfortable compared to a lot of people on this earth.
I also read it as Western Civilization collapsing as opposed to a country, so that may be the problem.
I also read it as Western Civilization collapsing as opposed to a country, so that may be the problem.
s_mirage
Member
Not only unencrypted but extremely powerful and preferably aimed directly at us. AFAIK, random unfocussed radio chatter would be undetectable from even the nearest star at present.
I've long held the view that climate change and the attitude of mandating labor for money will both combine to create catastrophe for human beings, and it'll start with the Millennial generation. We care more about the economy than the environment the economy exists in, and we care more about ascribed monetary wealth than the actual wealth of things that objectively exist in nature.
Climate change, combined with a removed labor force via automation - which isn't even addressing the problem of stagnant wages against GDP, and that's another problem of itself - are going to be two separate but equally destructive tsunamis we're sitting on the shoreline for. One is led by ignorance and pillaging resources that will cause environmental chaos, and one is led by ignorant dogma that man has to "earn" his worth while fighting the insoluble game that machines can and will outclass man at the idea that one "must" be a cog in the machine, and that's not even considering the psychological ignorance that's paralyzed the world to truly believe money is what makes things happen. Developed nations create poverty via double-binding the idea that one must work, or else they become the have not. This is pigshitted thinking.
Such a collapse seems perfectly reasonable, for we are still an incredibly unreasonable species, caught in our own ignorance, led by the least among us, and seem totally content in a status quo that really does few people any favors. Would I desire it? Of course not, because what we're doing to cause these problems has no rhyme or reason behind it, but it appears very few people sincerely care about that...
Climate change, combined with a removed labor force via automation - which isn't even addressing the problem of stagnant wages against GDP, and that's another problem of itself - are going to be two separate but equally destructive tsunamis we're sitting on the shoreline for. One is led by ignorance and pillaging resources that will cause environmental chaos, and one is led by ignorant dogma that man has to "earn" his worth while fighting the insoluble game that machines can and will outclass man at the idea that one "must" be a cog in the machine, and that's not even considering the psychological ignorance that's paralyzed the world to truly believe money is what makes things happen. Developed nations create poverty via double-binding the idea that one must work, or else they become the have not. This is pigshitted thinking.
Such a collapse seems perfectly reasonable, for we are still an incredibly unreasonable species, caught in our own ignorance, led by the least among us, and seem totally content in a status quo that really does few people any favors. Would I desire it? Of course not, because what we're doing to cause these problems has no rhyme or reason behind it, but it appears very few people sincerely care about that...
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I can believe a collapse could happen, but it being irreversible? With as many cultures and centres of society (as well as learning) as there are I struggle to believe that.
Bull-fucking-shit. You think the millennial generation (who are only now just coming out of their 20s) are to blame for the 50+ years of accelerated post-WW2 industrialisation that led to this mess? We're the ones that'll have to fix it all for everyone that follows.
Bull-fucking-shit. You think the millennial generation (who are only now just coming out of their 20s) are to blame for the 50+ years of accelerated post-WW2 industrialisation that led to this mess? We're the ones that'll have to fix it all for everyone that follows.
Melon Husk
Member
The better things get, the worse the fear of a catastrophe that wipes everything out grows. That's normal.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
OP's theatricality for the uninitiated.
we need someone like bane to save us.
we need someone like bane to save us.
Extra Sauce
Member
Won't be much of a solution once we awaken an ancient otherworldly evil.
John Kowalski
Banned
I don't want to wait. It's time to burn shit down, kill the status quo and generally wreak havoc.
Who's with me?
Who's with me?
Lucky Forward
Member
I still get to keep my pension, right?
John Kowalski
Banned
Ssssssssssuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeee........
Rhomega Beta
Member
"They dug too deep, dug too greedily..."
I never said cause. By start I mean these problems will face that generation the hardest, for those of that generation - myself included - will be the first ones to experience this as the large uh ohs they've become. Such a generation will be hit with the catastrophes. I mean, it's the same generation growing up with climate change being an actual, observable problem in the environment and the same generation with sub-minimum wages, while also being told "you have to work" in a society where many jobs are being battled by taking advantage of human life at cheaper monetary costs until machinery arrives that gets rid of them altogether.
Please understand by start, the millennial generation will be the first simply shell shocked by these problems as central issues in their lifetimes. We have very clearly inherited a mess, and the question then becomes do we become sensible enough to address this? Such issues almost seem like non-starters to any sincere action: we speak of concern, but don't speak of steadfast change.
CharminUltra
Member
Give me all the money, I'll save us.
... But the fall of the Roman, Han and other empires didn't mean, in even a single of those cases, the end of civilization as we know it.
Of course, the belief that things will only get better from there on out is naive, but it's also arguable that from the standpoint of wealth distribution, things have only gotten worse in the last half century - And yet, technology made it seem progress.
WW2 is not a civilization-ending event.
Of course, the belief that things will only get better from there on out is naive, but it's also arguable that from the standpoint of wealth distribution, things have only gotten worse in the last half century - And yet, technology made it seem progress.
WW2 is not a civilization-ending event.
Goldfishking
Member
'The fall of the Roman Empire, and the equally (if not more) advanced Han, Mauryan, and Gupta Empires, as well as so many advanced Mesopotamian Empires, are all testimony to the fact that advanced, sophisticated, complex, and creative civilizations can be both fragile and impermanent.'
No it doesn't. It shows that empires are fragile and impermanent. Empires economy are normally based on fiscalism and military expanision as their main source of income. When this expansion stops, the economy collapses in on itself. This is why Rome fell and it's why america's policy of communist containment led to the U.S.S.R's collapse.
No it doesn't. It shows that empires are fragile and impermanent. Empires economy are normally based on fiscalism and military expanision as their main source of income. When this expansion stops, the economy collapses in on itself. This is why Rome fell and it's why america's policy of communist containment led to the U.S.S.R's collapse.
Bigboss242
Banned
Consumerism is a disease, whoever thought it was a good idea to burn through all of our resources in such a short time frame.
But will the phone work after 24 hours in the bag?
I dont think millennials will fix anything. We might start a course change but future generations are the ones who are fucked and gonna have to do shit with the situation.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Hmm I dunno I think we've just about made it. It took tens of thousands of years to progress to where we are but it's home stretch now. The resources we need are either possible to synthesise or are present in abundant quantities in the asteroid belt. I think we've got enough time left on the clock to develop strong AI, and every other advance we make up to that point will seem trivial by comparison.
This is so dumb.
Western civilization is in no way analogous to empires from 2,000 years ago that were composed of conquered states being held together under duress and surrounded by enemies with whom they were waging perpetual war. And even still, I question what percentage of the non-elites living in the empires they used as examples of "collapses" would even have been AWARE that their civilization had "collapsed."
Individual nations can and do gradually decline, and forms of government change, but how many modern civilizations in recent history have straight-up COLLAPSED? Like, where the standard of living, beliefs, and customs, etc. have changed dramatically in the span of a generation? All I can think of is tiny island nations with populations in the thousands, not modern civilizations that are practiced by hundreds of millions of people across multiple nations. Even the complete and total collapse of the Russian government didn't cause Russian civilization to collapse.
Western civilization is in no way analogous to empires from 2,000 years ago that were composed of conquered states being held together under duress and surrounded by enemies with whom they were waging perpetual war. And even still, I question what percentage of the non-elites living in the empires they used as examples of "collapses" would even have been AWARE that their civilization had "collapsed."
Individual nations can and do gradually decline, and forms of government change, but how many modern civilizations in recent history have straight-up COLLAPSED? Like, where the standard of living, beliefs, and customs, etc. have changed dramatically in the span of a generation? All I can think of is tiny island nations with populations in the thousands, not modern civilizations that are practiced by hundreds of millions of people across multiple nations. Even the complete and total collapse of the Russian government didn't cause Russian civilization to collapse.
ClosingADoor
Member
You are living the life you have now because of consumerism. And if that is in a first world country, it has been pretty good for you.
It is easy to say consumerism or capitalism is to blame for a lot of bad things, but it is also what made a lot of progress we are enjoying now possible.
Megalosaro
Banned
Skewed perspective. A lot of those ancient civilizations were around hundreds of years. Industrialization is still pretty young. Only a small handful of generations.
Baconsaurus Rex
Member
We're doing well at the moment so there must be a giant economical collapse coming soon! Right?
John Kowalski
Banned
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Of course it will. Take America for example. We live in a country with 18 trillion in debt, yet a 80% of the country makes under 100k a year, at yet some how poor people are to blame. I look at the debt as IOUs that rich people have handed out...poor people aren't going to be paying back shit because they haven't seen shit from that huge debt. I hate when pundits say "every new child is born with 50k in debt because of the nation's debt issue. Bullshit. Follow the money and see where it ends up. They are the ones that should pay the debt.
Water wars!!.....(PS. Waterworld w/ Kevin Costner was terrible!!)
On the plus side, I do live right next to the great lakes =P
- Status