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Naughty Dog won't push Uncharted 4 to 60fps if it compromises player experience
- Thread starter Slowdive
- Start date
ProfessorMoran
Member
Wow, lots of improvements.
MadScientist
Banned
And those were launch games! KZSF had an unlocked framerate well over 30 fps too. Is it really too much to ask a linear game which comes out two years after the launch of the PS4 to achieve 60 fps?
well the visuals probably wouldn't be impressive 'enough' and people would call downgrade.
Coolbgdog12
Member
This sounds so good.
lukeskymac
Member
gundamkyoukai
Member
I am looking forward to seeing the tech behind the system they using instead of adaptive tessellation .
We have no idea they how liner the game is but going from the PSX demo it much more open than before and they have levels that even bigger than that one.
Glad we agree.
What kind of interaction are you talking about in particular (just to see if we're on the same page)? And how does it affect gameplay? I assume you mean stuff like Drake touching walls when he's near them.
It helps immersion for sure, but i'm not sure how it changes the gameplay.
That's a great change.
brickarts295
Member
Jeez I guess that thread really did a number on GAF.
Hadn't even seen that thread.
i know Naughty Dog is very much beloved by a lot of Gaffers, but i really don't get what i said that is so controversial.
Most of the impressive stuff in that demo was in graphics and animation quality, which is not what i'm talking about in that post.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
I meant the freeform terrain traversal in which you can do stuff like jumping off the freely swinging rope and punching someone while flying towards the ground, and things like that, where MGS:GZ felt woefully robotic and limiting in comparison. These kind of traversal systems in place in UC4 seem better and more organic than any other game I can think of.
The rope is on predetermined points of the map, correct? it's indeed awesome looking and very fluid, but it doesn't seem to me like something outright impossible to do in 60fps.
i mean verticality like we've seen in the U4 demo isn't anything super new, U2 and U3 already had some of that, an that interaction with the rope, while great, doesn't seem like any particular technical leap, just extremely polished animations and mechanics, but not much to do with HW.
Sort of like in MGSV you see Big Boss throw a grenade and have it shot into an helicopter in real time, cool move but i'm not sure what it should prove.
Not trying to say that MGSV and U4 are doing the same thing, if you read back the argument with Net_Wrecker, my point is i didn't see anything in the demo gameplay related, that made me think "ok they would've had to cut this for 60fps", because it's more or less what we've seen in U2 or U3, but with expanded Ai and levels, and that move doesn't really blow my mind, other than, again, looking very cool.
i'm thinking if you mixed the rope swinging from U2 with a more advanced version of the melee system, you wouldn't end up with something much different than what that move implies.
SebastianM
Member
Did anybody really believe this would run at 60fps? it would take some serious graphical downgrades for it to happen, and that's a no-no for a graphical showcase series. It'll be fine at 30fps, and at this point in time i don't even care when devs lie to us.
Astral Dog
Member
It seems fair, Uncharted is a graphic showcase above all, its just that ND should had been more clear when they said they were aiming for 60fps, it sounded like a design goal.
Shin
Banned
Not with the hardware that's in the current gen consoles, doesn't matter how much tricks they got up their sleeves. There's only so much juice one can get out of the hardware.
Jawbreaker
Member
It sounds like they're still unsure if they'll be able to get everything they want into the game at a mostly locked 60, which does not contradict their previous statement about aiming for 60. It's always beneficial to try and optimize for 60 fps, because worst case scenario, you'll certainly get a game with a locked 30 if you can't reach 60 while still being able to accomplish everything you want as a developer with your game outside of the frame rate. The benefits of 60 fps vs. whatever it is they're employing in the game that prevents it from hitting 60 is certainly debatable and not objective in any sense. It's encouraging that about ten months out, they're already hitting the upper thirties with the visuals we saw on display at PSX.
But I guess the hyperbole littered across this thread is to be expected.
But I guess the hyperbole littered across this thread is to be expected.
Fancy Clown
Member
Everything about this sounds amazing.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
All this is fine to me, I just wish they hadn't made such a big deal about 60 fps around last year's E3.
If it wasn't a 100% feasible target for their vision, they shouldn't have made it seem like "oh, I can't ever go back to 30 fps".
I have absolutely no problem with 30 frames for a game like Uncharted.
If it wasn't a 100% feasible target for their vision, they shouldn't have made it seem like "oh, I can't ever go back to 30 fps".
I have absolutely no problem with 30 frames for a game like Uncharted.
Yeah, this news hasn't dampened my excitement for this game at all. It sounds like the game I would make if I was in charge of the series. I just think it's negative PR when it could have easily been avoided.
Paracelsus
Member
People who saw the reveal trailer, absolutely all of them.
Those of us that saw the 60fps trailer at E3 and knew about how high on 60fps ND was after TLoUR.
Oh dear, those details sound great. Thanks
I expected, and still expect 60 (although it's pretty much a safe bet that they will lock it at 30), but I won't lose any sleep if they can't reach it.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Who cares if it's 30 or 60. It's going to be amazing regardless.
Good thing they never promised anything except "we'll try".
Feel like devs shouldn't even say that they're targeting 60fps if they can't even reach it at the end.
prag16
Banned
Yep. This was never gonna be 60, even if they tried to consider it early on.
They can say it, and they can take it back, and people can be disappointed, and the world keeps spinning, and Uncharted 4 will still sell to 90% of the people that wanted to buy it.
For me there is a major difference between saying you're exploring hitting it in an interview and publicly releasing 60fps in engine footage. The latter is what happened here and I would have thought ND knew better.
I'm just glad that ND is addressing this now, well before release, so that we don't find out just a couple weeks before launch. They at least are being open that the target may not happen before we see too much more.
Out of curiosity, what size or type of monitor/TV are you using to play your consoles on?
I don't see what the problem is. They said they were "targeting 60fps" because they were actually doing just that, "targeting". Unfortunately they might not be able to recherche théorie initial targeting. It's suces Il know, but we cannot blâme thème from trying, from being open to the community.
I'm glad they're aiming for 60fps, Il hope they get there. But if they don't then it's fine, just make sure the game is still enjoyable.
I'm glad they're aiming for 60fps, Il hope they get there. But if they don't then it's fine, just make sure the game is still enjoyable.
PrimaNocta
Member
No worries from me. ND always delivers a solid project.
Cave Johnson
Member
Nobody targets 60fps and then downscales midway in development, that sounds like a move coming from an amateur developer. This is why pre-production exists; you set the groundwork for your design and whatever variables that will apply is significant will have to be considered beforehand.
COD, the 3D Mario games (sans 3DS), Forza and RAGE all have 60fps as target but you noticed they all happen to reach that ballpark without dropping it to 30. Why? Because it's all incorporated to the design from the start. Any mitigating factors that will compromise that is eliminated or discovered workarounds to apply feature(s). But this should be apparent even to the most green developers.
But it's quite evident that ND is far from incompetency if going by their recent games. The "60fps" target was simply a knee-jerk PR move going by the positive impressions of TLOU: R. It is only until recently we can confirm that they were just riding that 60fps bandwagon just to gain more traction - it worked and that is why we are having this issue right now. It's a cheap move to gain more awareness and it treats me as a consumer like mindless sheep.
This "all PR is good PR" is why you have faux-gameplay footage from companies like Ubisoft trying stimulate the pre-order culture, if only for the benefit of assuring "day-one" sales if reviews and other wide-publications were to somehow diminish the hype. It's sad that ND would have to resort to this kind of tactic (though not as extreme) nonetheless.
But I thought the previous 3 games worked out fine with 30 fps.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Come on man, I didn't even hint at that.
But why are you talking about something that can't fully be pictured? The games look as good as they do thanks to ND's talent/experience and Sony's assistance with tech and finances.
Almost sounds like a port beg too imo
It's hardly a port beg. I'm simply saying that they're being held back by outdated hardware. Although, to be fair, it's probably so well known that I didn't need to post it.
The comparison does not necessarily work, as the design fundamentals are very different. I'd imagine Naughty Dog are experimenting with far more ambitious and graphically taxing set pieces and gameplay scenario's than the other examples given, perhaps more than most other games out there to tell the truth. In theory any of these new set piece or level designs, could, depending on the stage of design, be near impossible to do at the current 60fps target without major cut backs to things already implemented. If the latter occurs enough times, or to a set piece or level of the game they think is intrinsic or paramount to the overall experience, then they could switch to 30fps mid development cycle to accommodate it.
That wouldn't necessarily mean they were incompetent, rather it could also mean they were simply being too ambitious for what the hardware permitted at a 60fps target.
I don't read this as confirmation of 30, more like occasionally we'll drop some frames if the scene needs it. The first bloater jn the Last of Us Remaster has the kind of drop I'm imagining.
At 30fps the game is kind of impressive, but next to metal gear at 60 it gets its arse handed. Open world, dynamic weather, dynamic time of day, a tonne of dynamic lights, animation looks as fantastic as uncharted. In the demos the ai were much more advanced, there numbers and patterns varied according to conditions and previous actions by the player. The only downside we're seeing is some chunkier environments and more aggressive lod. Gameplay wise what has metal gear sacrificed?
My point isn't to burn Uncharted, but to say it's going to be 60.
At 30fps the game is kind of impressive, but next to metal gear at 60 it gets its arse handed. Open world, dynamic weather, dynamic time of day, a tonne of dynamic lights, animation looks as fantastic as uncharted. In the demos the ai were much more advanced, there numbers and patterns varied according to conditions and previous actions by the player. The only downside we're seeing is some chunkier environments and more aggressive lod. Gameplay wise what has metal gear sacrificed?
My point isn't to burn Uncharted, but to say it's going to be 60.
SuperEpicGuy
Banned
Sigh, guess I'll never see uncharted in 60 fps. There's always hope for the ps3 emulator but it's in super early stages at the moment. I need to freeze myself for a solid 6 years.
cheezcake
Member
I think you've missed his point. He's saying 60fps is a base level design constraint, games which are 60fps are developed around that fundamental goal. ND pretty much led everyone to believe that 60fps was their goal for UC4, if it truly was parts of the game would've been designed around that. Instead we now know the game is most likely going to be 30fps. ND isn't an amateur studio they didn't just go "ah well guess we'll settle for 30fps" in the final stages of development, they simply never had 60fps as a design goal. But they misled the public into thinking it was, garnering themselves a lot of attention and goodwill.
Or they realised mid way through that the cost to meet that that 60fps frame rate goal was too severe to the rest of their gameplay and graphics goals.
cheezcake
Member
That's not something you realise "midway" though. Pretty much everything is contingent on the frame render time, if ND actually wanted 60fps it would've been fixed extremely early. It decides the graphics tech that goes in the game, it influences AI, environments etc. You can't just start building the game and "hope" that it'll reach 60fps.
Jawbreaker
Member
Source? It's certainly not set in stone going by this issue of Edge, so I'm assuming you have another reliable source that will corroborate your statement? Or is your assertion that they're lying and already know they're going with 30 fps, but are trying to let people down slowly? I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt until a definite conclusion is reached. Also keep in mind, the PSX demo was quickly thrown together.
cheezcake
Member
Sorry I'll edit the post, but going by Straley's quote it sounds EXTREMELY doubtful that 60fps is going to happen.
