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NBA 2K18 (Switch cartridge) requires 16GB download for all features

iMerc

Member
Nov 25, 2012
1,051
0
0
i think it's time someone in the 'know how' can tell us exactly how much these game cards cost the publisher; all of them; the 1gb, the 2gb, the 8gb, the 16gb, and the 32gb ones. all of them. that way, we as informed gamers, can decide whether or not the publisher is just being a cheap prick & is trying to cut corners on costs, or whether or not these game cards truly are expensive.

for example, anything 8gb and under i seriously doubt is more expensive than a bluray disc. the 16gb one i can believe is more expensive, but barely.
as for the 32gb one, yeah i have no doubt that's significantly pricier.

can anyone tell us?

also, WTF at a 5gb save? bloated, in-efficient coding perhaps?
 

MBR

Banned
Apr 1, 2013
1,087
0
0
It would be really interesting to sit in in the 5GB per save file meeting... Even if it's to be thought of as a safety margin for the future, it's insane.
 

Atheerios

Member
Jan 11, 2016
1,052
4
335
Costa Rica
The game requires 5GB of internal storage per save file (per user).

The Switch can have up to 8 users. That means that you can't even make a save file for each of the console's users.
 

Skittzo0413

Member
Jan 8, 2016
9,666
3
0
I understand the limitations regarding the game size but the save file makes no sense to me. This isn't an open world where thousands of little objects and states need to be saved, how the hell can the save file be 5GB?

Deeke[VRZ];249028154 said:
I was told by a PR rep that NBA 2K18 will be 25GB on Switch, not 22.9GB. Worth noting maybe.

They could've just been rounding up, but interesting nonetheless.
 

AtomicShroom

Member
Jul 8, 2004
5,357
1
720
40
Montreal, QC, Canada
5GB save file? Why?

Because they couldn't be bothered to optimize any of it. Just dump the entire RAM to a save file and call it a day. Takes 3 seconds to implement versus carefully picking and curating which values you want to save or not, then making sure everything that's not saved gets re-initialized properly. Way too much work. Yawn.
 

ggx2ac

Member
Apr 5, 2016
7,164
1
370
They could've just been rounding up, but interesting nonetheless.

Reposting this again so people don't miss it:

Technically, we heard 25GB when Game Informer interviewed the devs weeks ago that they said they were targeting 25GB.

But the game has released now on the eShop, they managed to get it down to 22.9GB.
 

lyrick

Member
Apr 13, 2012
2,689
0
660
Switch should have more internal memory, though.

How much should that internal memory add to the cost? On other mobile devices the jump from 32GB to 128 is an extra $100, the jump to 256GB is around an extra $200.

I not really sure people complaining about a $70 200GB sd card are ready for a $500 model of a Switch.
 

Shadow Broker

Banned
Aug 26, 2013
4,857
0
370
Middle of no where
Going all-digital isn't an option (for me, at least) until there are some basic industry-wide standards for returns, refunds, lending, and pricing.


Interesting... I remember when Destiny 1 came out I played 30 or so minutes of it and didn't liked it so I called and made up some bullshit lie and got refunded for it. My Uncle convinced me to rebuy it though so I can play with him on raids. Also in the past whenever I preordered a game digitally on PSN and ended up not wanting it before release I would call, cancel the preorder, and tell them why I didn't want the game any more and I got PSN credit.

The only game I could never return is The Division digitally. I played too much of it with my Uncle and couldn't get a return on it when we both realized it wasn't a good game.

Safe to say that now I'm extremely careful of what I buy digitally.
 

Wereroku

Member
Jan 10, 2013
5,153
0
365
NC
Yeah, okay, Nintendo needs to make some policies about this. This is too much.

That safe file is the worst thing though. What save file could possibly need 5 GB?

As Kenny said they are probably using it for more then just the save. Maybe caching things there or something.
 
Sep 23, 2004
14,342
3
1,550
i think it's time someone in the 'know how' can tell us exactly how much these game cards cost the publisher; all of them; the 1gb, the 2gb, the 8gb, the 16gb, and the 32gb ones. all of them. that way, we as informed gamers, can decide whether or not the publisher is just being a cheap prick & is trying to cut corners on costs, or whether or not these game cards truly are expensive.

for example, anything 8gb and under i seriously doubt is more expensive than a bluray disc. the 16gb one i can believe is more expensive, but barely.
as for the 32gb one, yeah i have no doubt that's significantly pricier.

I think BRs are a lot cheaper than you think they are. ROM is cheaper than it used to be but still several times more expensive than even dual layer BR. Not sure about 3DROM Nintendo uses but you can walk into stores now and find blank burnable blu-rays as cheap as 33 cents a disc.
 

Ridley327

Member
Feb 7, 2005
37,712
1
1,480
I understand the limitations regarding the game size but the save file makes no sense to me. This isn't an open world where thousands of little objects and states need to be saved, how the hell can the save file be 5GB?
Sports games are saving thousands of changes, since every team in a season is going to change after every game, and they'll need to keep track of that. It may not seem as impressive on the surface as "Skyrim lets me put a pencil in one corner of the map and it will stay there always," but there is still a lot of data that needs to be sifted through. I doubt it's really 5GB worth of changes, but sports games have tended to balloon when you least expect it.
 

_Ryo_

Member
May 6, 2013
6,562
3
0
VA
The Doom patch for a fresh install on PS4 is over 20 GB.

This is why so many of us were shitty about the 32gb Switch system memory. Even a 256gb (expensive!!) MicroSD card isn't going to cut it in the long run.

Shit, my 2 TB PS4 HDD is nearly full.

*It's not EA. It's 2K

Also you're forgetting the sizes of some of the patches required to play games no matter the system.

Dont equate patches to the base game, it is disingenuous and is not and does not relate to my criticism in any way.

If you do not install a patch in 99% of cases the game is 100% playable from start to finish, albeit often with performance issues and/or bugs. It is still completely playable without having to download a single thing at all.

On the other hand, some Switch games will require, AKA, FORCE you to download a large file before playing the entire game, only allowing you to play very limited content off th physical cart.


There is literally no point in buying the physical cart as you can not play it without a digital download. Which means you can not play it if you do not have internet access, or if your internet is crap and extremely slow and/or data capped-throttled . It is similar to the Xbox One pre- launch fiasco and to me and is entirely unacceptable.

I have never once been forced to download a game to play it from start to finsh when owning it physically on any other gaming console, ever.

The 5GB per save file on internal memory is vomit icing on a shit cake. Its a trash solution in every regard.

*Fixed the dev/publisher in my previous post. Ty for the correction.
 

KennyLinder

Member
May 11, 2007
7,885
0
0
NA
Yeah, okay, Nintendo needs to make some policies about this. This is too much.

That safe file is the worst thing though. What save file could possibly need 5 GB?

They do have policies, they specifically allow it.

We were even told that putting certain games modes as a separate download is fine if you want/need to stay within a lower capacity card.

(Not sure about game save file limits/rules though, my post above is total assumption. They may have even got special permission by Nintendo do it, to get the game running on Switch)
 

Skittzo0413

Member
Jan 8, 2016
9,666
3
0
Sports games are saving thousands of changes, since every team in a season is going to change after every game, and they'll need to keep track of that. It may not seem as impressive on the surface as "Skyrim lets me put a pencil in one corner of the map and it will stay there always," but there is still a lot of data that needs to be sifted through. I doubt it's really 5GB worth of changes, but sports games have tended to balloon when you least expect it.

Whenever I've delved into game development saves are the one concept I never really got, but this description sounds an awful lot like it could easily be put on a 50kb spreadsheet, which is updated and saved whenever needed. Organizing a defined number of players on a defined number of teams cannot possibly take up 5GB of data.

I'd love if a developer of a sports game could explain why the save file balloons like this. I really don't get it.
 

Nategc20

Banned
Feb 9, 2016
932
0
0
Switch owners want third party, AAA titles, but then are miffed by the fact that they require extra storage?

The game cart decision is on Nintendo, as is the internal storage. I have a Switch, but will be doing my multiplatform gaming on the PS4. If that's not an option, maybe just be thankful that the hardware is getting such great support at this time...?
This dude is a troll and a hater.
 

darkstar0155

Member
Aug 15, 2012
1,151
0
0
Whenever I've delved into game development saves are the one concept I never really got, but this description sounds an awful lot like it could easily be put on a 50kb spreadsheet, which is updated and saved whenever needed. Organizing a defined number of players on a defined number of teams cannot possibly take up 5GB of data.

I'd love if a developer of a sports game could explain why the save file balloons like this. I really don't get it.

Funnily enough that is what it sounded like to me. Like a simple excel sheet could handle most of it I would think. Given I don't know squat about game dev...
 

Leona Lewis

Banned
May 22, 2010
17,149
0
335
I have never once been forced to download a game to play it from start to finsh when owning it physically on any other gaming console, ever.
This. There's literally zero reason to buy a cart when you have to download another 16+ GB of data just to play the game from beginning to end.

At that point the cart is just a worthless piece of physical DRM.

Hopefully EA clarifies soon what's actually contained on the cart, because this is looking like some bullshit that will spiral out of control unless Nintendo lays down some smack.
 

Darkangel

Member
Jul 16, 2011
2,458
43
595
Canada
I always thought that rapidly ballooning game sizes were due to a lack of compression (since BD-ROMs are so huge), guess I was wrong. I wonder when we'll see 64gb Switch cartridges? I'm assuming it's technically possible but too costly at the moment.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
Jun 10, 2004
27,926
0
0
This. There's literally zero reason to buy a cart when you have to download another 16+ GB of data just to play the game from beginning to end.

At that point the cart is just a worthless piece of physical DRM.

Hopefully EA clarifies soon what's actually contained on the cart, because this is looking like some bullshit that will spiral out of control unless Nintendo lays down some smack.

EA doesn't even make this game and they are being blamed. =P
 

diaspora

Member
Feb 18, 2013
19,069
0
395
This. There's literally zero reason to buy a cart when you have to download another 16+ GB of data just to play the game from beginning to end.

At that point the cart is just a worthless piece of physical DRM.

Hopefully EA clarifies soon what's actually contained on the cart, because this is looking like some bullshit that will spiral out of control unless Nintendo lays down some smack.
Is this a running joke or
 

MisterR

Member
Sep 6, 2014
2,955
12
445
Yeah, that's the biggest problem that players will be facing. Just to have a save file for the game, you need to give up nearly a quarter of your system's internal memory.

Yep, this is why i'll mainly be sticking to indy games and Nintendo games on my Switch, 3rd party AAA games will be reserved for my PS4.
 

Leona Lewis

Banned
May 22, 2010
17,149
0
335
EA doesn't even make this game and they are being blamed. =P
lol

lower dem cart prices, nintendo

 

MisterR

Member
Sep 6, 2014
2,955
12
445
I think BRs are a lot cheaper than you think they are. ROM is cheaper than it used to be but still several times more expensive than even dual layer BR. Not sure about 3DROM Nintendo uses but you can walk into stores now and find blank burnable blu-rays as cheap as 33 cents a disc.

Yep, BR is dirt cheap, even the cheapest carts are going to cost more.
 

Wereroku

Member
Jan 10, 2013
5,153
0
365
NC
I always thought that rapidly ballooning game sizes were due to a lack of compression (since BD-ROMs are so huge), guess I was wrong. I wonder when we'll see 64gb Switch cartridges? I'm assuming it's technically possible but too costly at the moment.

Probably never since the cost of 32gb cards are making devs almost never use them. Seems that the idea is to get the game on as small of a card as possible and download the rest.
 

Skittzo0413

Member
Jan 8, 2016
9,666
3
0
I dont play sport games but my ex was a pro at them. The save file probably includes those game highlight clips and stuff like that. I'm not sure if the Switch has a network for sharing game clips like that, though?

Yeah if it includes highlight clips then I guess I can see it ballooning quite easily.

More devs should do highlights like Mario Kart 8 where it's not actually a video file that's saved, rather it's just a bunch of variables related to how each racer drove that race.
 

gtj1092

Member
Feb 16, 2008
3,543
0
865
Lots of crow to be eaten from the previous NBA 2K thread.

Some of you sound like you've never played sports games before. They've been the biggest save space eaters since ps2 memery cards.
 

_Ryo_

Member
May 6, 2013
6,562
3
0
VA
EA doesn't even make this game and they are being blamed. =P

Is this a running joke or

No. I was incorrect about the dev/publisher in my initial post as I dont play sports games and assumed it was an EA game when it was 2K. People are quoting me, and ergo they are led to believe it as the incorrect one as well. I have since corrected the post.

My concerns and criticisms are about FORCED additional downloads (not patches, theyre not the same in any way) on physical media in general, not specifically NBA 2K18. Though 5GB per save file on very limited internal memory is also totally unaccpetable.
 

blu

Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
May 4, 2007
13,696
272
1,285
Switch owners want third party, AAA titles, but then are miffed by the fact that they require extra storage?
I'm sure you'd have a point about some title, but this one is not it.
 

robrueda

Member
Jun 12, 2013
80
1
0
I´m ok with the Doom model: Single player Campaign on cart and make the multiplayer a downloadable portion of the game (DPG for short, you see it here first). But as another GAFer point out, in the BNA 2K18 model, the cart is just DRM, just happened to be one that you can sell, lend, of trade-in.

I can see this practice getting wide spread, is cheaper for the publisher and transfer all the cost to the consumer. Get used to it.

If some publishers are going after the Doom model, I hope they make the Multiplayer the portion on the cart and the Single Player the DPG. For a game like Battlefront, COD and alike, you only go through the Campaign once, but keep coming back for the Multiplayer.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Apr 17, 2007
19,834
4
1,330
Grenada
If you do not install a patch in 99% of cases the game is 100% playable from start to finish, albeit often with performance issues and/or bugs. It is still completely playable without having to download a single thing at all.
Is this really true nowadays? With how much online interactions there are in games? And what about the actual online portion of the game?

I get your point, but 99% is way to much of an exaggeration.
 

darkstar0155

Member
Aug 15, 2012
1,151
0
0
I´m ok with the Doom model: Single player Campaign on cart and make the multiplayer a downloadable portion of the game (DPG for short, you see it here first). But as another GAFer point out, in the BNA 2K18 model, the cart is just DRM, just happened to be one that you can sell, lend, of trade-in.

I can see this practice getting wide spread, is cheaper for the publisher and transfer all the cost to the consumer. Get used to it.

If some publishers are going after the Doom model, I hope they make the Multiplayer the portion on the cart and the Single Player the DPG. For a game like Battlefront, COD and alike, you only go through the Campaign once, but keep coming back for the Multiplayer.

For this I guess it would depend on the game. Whichever is the main selling point of the game should be on the card, with the other stuff download.
 

giancarlo123x

Banned
May 11, 2010
15,936
2
0
I´m ok with the Doom model: Single player Campaign on cart and make the multiplayer a downloadable portion of the game (DPG for short, you see it here first). But as another GAFer point out, in the BNA 2K18 model, the cart is just DRM, just happened to be one that you can sell, lend, of trade-in.

I can see this practice getting wide spread, is cheaper for the publisher and transfer all the cost to the consumer. Get used to it.

If some publishers are going after the Doom model, I hope they make the Multiplayer the portion on the cart and the Single Player the DPG. For a game like Battlefront, COD and alike, you only go through the Campaign once, but keep coming back for the Multiplayer.
Doom has a decent model but due to the size limitations something big like snapmap had to be cut which sucks.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Apr 17, 2007
19,834
4
1,330
Grenada
Lots of crow to be eaten from the previous NBA 2K thread.

Some of you sound like you've never played sports games before. They've been the biggest save space eaters since ps2 memery cards.
I've only played sports games on PC really. Save file size has never been a concern. Never once thought about it and have no idea how big they are.
 

flohen95

Member
May 14, 2014
1,114
0
0
Germany
I´m ok with the Doom model: Single player Campaign on cart and make the multiplayer a downloadable portion of the game (DPG for short, you see it here first). But as another GAFer point out, in the BNA 2K18 model, the cart is just DRM, just happened to be one that you can sell, lend, of trade-in.

I can see this practice getting wide spread, is cheaper for the publisher and transfer all the cost to the consumer. Get used to it.

If some publishers are going after the Doom model, I hope they make the Multiplayer the portion on the cart and the Single Player the DPG. For a game like Battlefront, COD and alike, you only go through the Campaign once, but keep coming back for the Multiplayer.

Online-Multiplayer on the card makes little sense to me. I'm buying physical so that I can still play these games when the eShop servers are down, and by that time, the online won't be up for these games anyway. Which is also why I absolutely don't mind having to download the online multiplayer even when buying physical - to use it, you'll have to have connection to the servers anyway. It's also why I don't mind Splatoon's content rollout (the singleplayer is not affected by weapons and content added later) but do mind ARMS's (where the added content that isn't on the card affects non-online play and will be lost once the servers are gone).