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NES on a HDTV? Can it look nice?
- Thread starter Erdrick
- Start date
It's not exactly cheap or easy to achieve RGB out from the NES, though.
goldenpp72
Member
Probably a dumb question but, didn't pal titles run at 50hz, and ntsc at 60, does this become an issue if using a cable from europe on a US system?
And do all systems have a viable scart cable to use on US tvs? I plan on making a nice game room someday and would like the best way to hook up old games to new tvs, heh.
And do all systems have a viable scart cable to use on US tvs? I plan on making a nice game room someday and would like the best way to hook up old games to new tvs, heh.
I've always had horrible experiences with anything prior to the last generation of consoles on my 48in LED/LCD... so much so that I took an old tower and have dedicated it to emulating NES/SNES/N64 games (and they run/look great).
I wish I could play them on the original consoles with the same quality.
I wish I could play them on the original consoles with the same quality.
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
to bad its hard to good photos of crts running.
cause id love to see some 2d-crtrgb porn.
cause id love to see some 2d-crtrgb porn.
No. The cable itself is just a means for transmitting data.
maniac-kun
Member
Use an PC NES Emulator and get a HDMI cable for the ultimate NES experience.
Can someone point me to a proper SCART (or othe cable) to connect my unmodified US NTSC Super Nintendo up to an XRGB or XRGB mini framemeister?
Also, I've heard that for most people, svideo to a nice upscaler is good enough, and the jump from svideo to scart won't be that significant on old consol hardware. Thoughts?
Also, I've heard that for most people, svideo to a nice upscaler is good enough, and the jump from svideo to scart won't be that significant on old consol hardware. Thoughts?
drugstore_cowboy
Member
SCART is worth a try if the cable isn't too expensive, I never liked RGB with SNES as the colours seems to wash out and it looks blurry but it's one of the very few consoles where RGB looked worse.
charlequin
Banned
There are two problems people run into with these monitor-style filters. One is that they apply them way too strongly because they try to get the "look" to be really obvious -- and in the process, create color distortions, loss of brightness, and image sharpness reductions that go way past the actual level of a real TV. The other is that they sit too close to them, which makes the individual imperfections much more noticeable and draw attention away from the underlying images.
I'm actually a big fan of straight-up nearest-neighbor scaling of old games, but in a proper environment (playing on a moderately large display from a distance, driven by a properly scaled output) a judicious application of a CRT-type filter can produce some really nice results.
The screen geometry thing is definitely a bit of a "Whaaaaaa?" thing for me. Unlike phosphor behavior, screen warp was really an entirely undesirable effect that TVs tried to minimize and games were never specifically designed around.
gar3
Member
I bought a JPN RGB cable for use with my US SNES but it just didn't work out. Apparently the thing was made specifically for JPN Super Famis. Fudoh and the boys have been testing out various SFami and SNES consoles to try and find the best boards:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33450&start=840
As for me, I just use an s-video cable for my SNES with both my XRGB-2+ and XRGB-mini. It'll be fine until I stumble upon "the correct" Super Famicom unit, heh.
IrishNinja
Member
just saw this - thanks man! again, i get the sentiment but the emulator shots just look cleaner. and yeah, the screen warp talk is crazy.
also, that last MAME shot looks sharp to me.
Applying geometry distorting and the like to an image is silly. I find that a simple bi-linear filter and very light scanlines (10% opacity or so) provide a decent image. You really can't do a lot on a fixed-pixel display, especially when having to adjust ratios and the like.
Pretty much the exact same thing i do. I actually turn the scanlines down to 5% sometimes, when dealing with certain games (mainly vert shooters).
gar3
Member
I would certainly ask the seller beforehand that this can indeed be run through the NTSC JPN RGB socket of an XRGB. You want to make sure about this because you certainly do not want to blow the thing with a PAL SCART RGB cable.
If the seller responds in the positive, please let us know as well as if you do indeed get one
gar3
Member
Hmm. On second thought, this is the one you want for use with an XRGB:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...t=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item256b06c6f6
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...t=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item256b06c6f6
To XRGB? I dunno, XRGB wants a JP cable which is wired up different. A Euro cable can still work if you move the pins around properly. The SCART to Component transcoder I use expects the Euro layout, however.
Keep in mind that different cables can vary in quality. I have two SNES SCART cables and one of them suffers from an absolutely awful buzzing noise when anything appears on screen. You'll always get a bit of buzzing from any cable, but this one was unacceptable.
Thanks! I think this might be the right one too.
Unfortunately, this eBay seller never responds. I've written twice in the last month, and nada.
Edit: Fuck it, I'm buying this. I hope it works!
There's no reason for something more than a 1-frame lag if you use normal (non-temporal, motion prediction) de-interlacing. Especially bilinear or line-doublig upscales.
I'm oversensitive to input lag (can't stand anything over 20ms), and I'm pretty sure that I have no problem with old consoles on my quite old Bravia (most of the new one DOES exhibit input lag, though).
There's still a glitch in upscale: uniform colors exhibit a kind of moiré (it appears as a checkboard of a couple of millimeters wide squares, with slightly lighter/darker tones). But that's perfectly bearable.
Beer Monkey
Member
Just picked up a 20" flat Philips CRT SDTV from 2003. Includes component and s-video inputs. The geometry is perfect! Easily a better display device for classic consoles than 99% of the TVs that people played on back in the day.
Someday I hope for Framemeister-quality scaling at a more affordable price, but honestly a good interlaced CRT looks absolutely fantastic and it's easy to grab one on Craigslist for $20 (what I paid).
Someday I hope for Framemeister-quality scaling at a more affordable price, but honestly a good interlaced CRT looks absolutely fantastic and it's easy to grab one on Craigslist for $20 (what I paid).
infinityBCRT
Member
I was messing around with HLSL in MameUI 0.144 today and this is how it ended up looking on my 47" HDTV:
infinityBCRT
Member
Applying geometry distorting and the like to an image is silly. I find that a simple bi-linear filter and very light scanlines (10% opacity or so) provide a decent image. You really can't do a lot on a fixed-pixel display, especially when having to adjust ratios and the like.
My problem with doing a simple bi-linear filter is that you're getting pixel information blending on the y-axis. That softens the image considerably and ruins the look of the scanlines IMO. Getting it so that it only blends on the x-axis is the trick to making the image maintain its sharpness without looking too pixelated.
That being said I'm still struggling between whether or not I like the CRT filter more than I like something like HQ2xS. The Mortal Kombat Arcade Kollection's painted filter is even better looking than HQ2xS and makes MK2 look fantastic and I can fool myself into thinking it was remastered in HD whereas using HLSL filters on Mame maintains the original integrity of the image but still comes across as low resolution and aliased in comparison.
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
I just ordered the Framemeister after agonizing for weeks about it... the cost was high, but I'm hoping it's worth it... this will solve a lot of eyestrain and headache for me around classic games.
I'm glad I learned about it through this thread!
I'm glad I learned about it through this thread!
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I just ordered the Framemeister after agonizing for weeks about it... the cost was high, but I'm hoping it's worth it... this will solve a lot of eyestrain and headache for me around classic games.
I'm glad I learned about it through this thread!
I remember that feeling when I bought my XRGB-3 a few years ago. I was like "I mean, this'll probably be good, but I'm not completely convinced..."
Got it, hooked up my Saturn via SCART.
My mind was blown out of my fucking skull.
A buddy of mine recently acquired an RGB modded NES (using the Play Choice Ten chip). I haven't seen it in person yet, but the photos sent over look phenomenal. What a difference it makes.
The XRGB series is very interesting for sure, but you're still limited by performance of your flat panel and scaling algorithms. A real CRT fed with RGB will provide 100% accuracy with no input lag for a very low cost.
Well...it is definitely pretty pricey and still doesn't deliver the same image quality you'd get from a proper CRT fed with RGB (which remains a cheaper option).
The XRGB series is very interesting for sure, but you're still limited by performance of your flat panel and scaling algorithms. A real CRT fed with RGB will provide 100% accuracy with no input lag for a very low cost.
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
that would be the ideal solution, but my apartment is too small and I really don't want to lug a CRT around... so this looks like the best of both worlds for me... HDTV and pretty darn close to the real thing.
That's what I'm hoping for!
I need to invest in some SCART cables for some of my systems... but that will have to wait as I replenish my coffers. This was a big buy for me, for such a small box, but I'm hoping it all works out. I can't wait to see the results, because classic gaming has been so ugly over the last few years.Fair enough. Owning a CRT is definitely a difficult proposition for some as a result of its size and bulk.
Man, I would really love to get my hands on one of these, but the asking price is simply too steep considering I already have a CRT in place.
D
Deleted member 20415
Unconfirmed Member
If I had a CRT and a bit more room, I wouldn't even have been researching upscalers... that would 100% be my preferred method. NYC livin' man... oh, and a girlfriend. She tolerates my expanding collection and all my systems, but I can't be pushing that too far.
Ha ha, yeah, my wife is very tolerant of my collection but there are definitely limits. If we didn't have a reasonably sized house I don't think I'd be able to keep my CRT. I used to have a whole collection of CRTs, in fact, but she made me eliminate them.If I had a CRT and a bit more room, I wouldn't even have been researching upscalers... that would 100% be my preferred method. NYC livin' man... oh, and a girlfriend. She tolerates my expanding collection and all my systems, but I can't be pushing that too far.
