• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Netflix Witcher is terrible adaptation of Witcher books [Spoilers]

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Could not possibly disagree more. I loved the Witcher series and I am eagerly awaiting season two. Henry Cavill's Geralt is perfect and Yennifer is better than i could have hoped for. She steals the show actually in my opinion. Oh and their take on Dandelion is fantastic. I was afraid they would be a bit hamfisted with the comedy relief, but they did a good of it I think.


And i say that as someone who was a fan of the books before I ever played the games.
 
Last edited:

Dontero

Banned
Could not possibly disagree more. I loved the Witcher series and I am eagerly awaiting season two. Henry Cavill's Geralt is perfect and Yennifer is better than i could have hoped for. She steals the show actually in my opinion. Oh and their take on Dandelion is fantastic. I was afraid they would be a bit hamfisted with the comedy relief, but they did a good of it I think.


And i say that as someone who was a fan of the books before I ever played the games.

Geralt, Yennefer Jaskier roles is something mentioned in other post and i actually really liked those roles. The problem here is that all other stuff that makes witcher a witcher is not present.

I've read the books. They're entertaining, but they're not exactly Shakespeare. Cry some more though. I mean you're accusing the show of being generic Fantasy...wtf does that even mean? The books have Elves, Dwarves, Dragons, Magic and Curses. How are these not 'Generic Fantasy'?

You wouldn't know it from the show because show presents it as generic fantasy harping about destiny like it is some destiny game trailer.

Case of witcher himself. In every generic story there is hero who kills monster and get the princess and all live happily ever after there is some intrigue in between but that is how whole stuff happens.

Sapkowski asked question: "if there were monsters around people cities it doesn't make a sense for heroes to show up and fight it off for free. People would train or hire professional who would clean out fields from monsters for coin and people wouldn't treat them like heroes to begin with much like you don't care about pest control men"

If you read books you will realize quickly how many of witcher stories are just tales of popular folklore tales going from ango-saxon to slavic and made real in Witcher world.

- This is why you have story about mermaid and prince where mermain tells prince that she doesn't care about man who can't impregnate without fish reproductive organs.
- This is why you have story of beauty and the beast where beast is some cursed man and beauty being vampire who Geralt thought would want to manipulate him and use him (but she in fact loved him despite her nature).
- This is why you have dryads of brokilion who kill anyone stepping into their woods as their experienced humans destruction rather than being fantasy driads who near lake playfully tell hero where he needs to go.
- This is why elves on surface are like tolkien elves riding high on their moral horse but you quickly realize they are just like humans, petty and their talk about greatness of their race and how they treat non humans is just horseshit as described by some dwarve who tells you how they came and did to them what humans did to elves majority in those lands. The reason why they lost is not because humans were some tactical geniuses but because average woman could give birth to child in a year while elven woman could only do that when she was young and humans "outfucked" elves from their own lands.
- This is why you have story about golden dragon where golden dragon hunt is not noble hunt after terrible beast like Yennefer describes Geralt, or noble deed like tells some knight but quick and easy way to get rich because like in all tales golds sit on pile of gold. Yennefer was there not to kill terrible monster who terrorizes human towns but to make sure that all that treasure will not inflate market and will not collapse mages assets and she was willing to kill everyone out there to make sure of that.
- This is why higher vampires in witcher role don't need to drink human blood, they do it because it is social event and they get drunk on it much like human parties.


This is the core of witcher. It is literal anti-thesis to generic fantasy. It takes every trope and aks "does it make sense ?" If not it assumes something like this happened and then tries to explain realistically why someone like this happened.

In normal fantasy you would assume that leprechaun would be some positive character but in witcher you would need to ask first " does it makes sense ?" So some creature with bucket of gold would obviously be some crazy thief who acts like magpie.
 
Last edited:
It's been a while since I've read elric/eternal champion stuff but there are probably some thematic parallels. Not sure gerald himself is an elric clone though.
The silver hair, potions, killing monsters stuff is definitely a cloning but I don't know about Elric character wise, if he's as wooden as Geralt is.
 

Pirog123

Banned
The silver hair, potions, killing monsters stuff is definitely a cloning but I don't know about Elric character wise, if he's as wooden as Geralt is.
From wikipedia
"Elric is described in 1972's Elric of Melniboné:


It is the colour of a bleached skull, his flesh; and the long hair which flows below his shoulders is milk-white. From the tapering, beautiful head stare two slanting eyes, crimson and moody, and from the loose sleeves of his yellow gown emerge two slender hands, also the colour of bone.[2]

Elric is the last emperor of the stagnating island civilization of Melniboné. Physically weak and frail, the albino Elric must use drugs (special herbs) to maintain his health. Unlike other members of his race, Elric has a conscience. He witnesses the decadence of his culture, which once ruled the known world, and worries about the rise of the Young Kingdoms, populated by humans (as Melnibonéans do not consider themselves such) or the threat they pose to his empire. Because of his introspective self-loathing of Melnibonéan traditions, his subjects find him odd and unfathomable, and his cousin Yyrkoon (next in the line of succession, as Elric has no heirs) interprets his behaviour as weakness and plots Elric's death.

In addition to his skill with herbs, Elric is an accomplished sorcerer and summoner. As emperor of Melniboné, Elric is able to call for aid upon the traditional patron of the Melniboné emperors, Arioch, a Lord of Chaos and Duke of Hell. From the first story, Elric uses ancient pacts and agreements with not only Arioch, but various other beings—some gods, some demons—to help him accomplish his tasks.

Elric's finding of the sword Stormbringer serves as both his greatest asset and greatest disadvantage. The sword confers upon Elric strength, health, and fighting prowess, allowing him to do away with his dependence on drugs, but it must be fed by the souls of intelligent beings. In the end, the blade takes everyone close to Elric and eventually Elric's own soul as well. Most of Moorcock's stories about Elric feature this relationship with Stormbringer, and how it—despite Elric's best intentions—brings doom to everything he holds dear."

seems to me that this description does not fit Geralt well, more like not at all
also wooden? Geralt? weird.
 

Pirog123

Banned
Literally the first line of my post: -



Fail more

Reading what you wrote I have to wonder if you've ever read anything outside of the Sci-fi /Fantasy section of your local bookshop if you think The Witcher Books are somehow profound works.
they are definitely interesting i found them to be amongst the best of fantasy - and i have read some
 

dionysus

Yaldog
I liked the show a lot, but I always expect changes from the source material because of the strengths of each medium.

Though I wonder how someone who never played the games or read the books could understand the timeline jumping? Was it supposed to be confusing until the very last episode of the season? I mean Jaskier doesn't age as far as I can tell which made it even doubly more confusing. Geralt and Yenn never aging would also be confusing to the new to the universe viewer. Jaskier looks the same at the Calanthe betrothal feast as he does 14 years later or whatever.
 
Last edited:
From wikipedia
"Elric is described in 1972's Elric of Melniboné:




Elric is the last emperor of the stagnating island civilization of Melniboné. Physically weak and frail, the albino Elric must use drugs (special herbs) to maintain his health. Unlike other members of his race, Elric has a conscience. He witnesses the decadence of his culture, which once ruled the known world, and worries about the rise of the Young Kingdoms, populated by humans (as Melnibonéans do not consider themselves such) or the threat they pose to his empire. Because of his introspective self-loathing of Melnibonéan traditions, his subjects find him odd and unfathomable, and his cousin Yyrkoon (next in the line of succession, as Elric has no heirs) interprets his behaviour as weakness and plots Elric's death.

In addition to his skill with herbs, Elric is an accomplished sorcerer and summoner. As emperor of Melniboné, Elric is able to call for aid upon the traditional patron of the Melniboné emperors, Arioch, a Lord of Chaos and Duke of Hell. From the first story, Elric uses ancient pacts and agreements with not only Arioch, but various other beings—some gods, some demons—to help him accomplish his tasks.

Elric's finding of the sword Stormbringer serves as both his greatest asset and greatest disadvantage. The sword confers upon Elric strength, health, and fighting prowess, allowing him to do away with his dependence on drugs, but it must be fed by the souls of intelligent beings. In the end, the blade takes everyone close to Elric and eventually Elric's own soul as well. Most of Moorcock's stories about Elric feature this relationship with Stormbringer, and how it—despite Elric's best intentions—brings doom to everything he holds dear."

seems to me that this description does not fit Geralt well, more like not at all
also wooden? Geralt? weird.
Geralt definitely owes a lot of his character to Elric. Elric essentially invented the sword and sorcery genre, and if there's anybody with long silver hair there's definitely some kind of Elric influence, i.e. Sephiroth.

Geralt being wooden isn't exactly a critique, and it's definitely not much of a compliment. Take it as you will, he's basically emotionless so it was more of a description of his personality.

This is bs. The tone and themes of the movie were similar to the book. Your hyperbole isn’t helping your argument either as a verbatim retelling isn’t being asked for. Believe it or not The Witcher books are not generic fantasy.

Compared to its inspiration... it's pretty generic.
 
Last edited:

Pirog123

Banned
Geralt definitely owes a lot of his character to Elric. Elric essentially invented the sword and sorcery genre, and if there's anybody with long silver hair there's definitely some kind of Elric influence, i.e. Sephiroth.

Geralt being wooden isn't exactly a critique, and it's definitely not much of a compliment. Take it as you will, he's basically emotionless so it was more of a description of his personality.



Compared to its inspiration... it's pretty generic.
Geralt character owes nothing to that Elric, but anyway, statements like "Elric essentially invented the sword and sorcery genre" just show how ignorant you are and what worth your opinions have.
 
Geralt character owes nothing to that Elric, but anyway, statements like "Elric essentially invented the sword and sorcery genre" just show how ignorant you are and what worth your opinions have.
Who are you to say my opinions have worth? How pompous and stupid can you get? You just proved your worth when it comes to rational debate and discussion, Witcher fanboy. You have no room to talk about ignorance.

What I said about Elric is fact. Anything you see being called the White Wolf, or an albino protagonist, or anything called the conjunction of spheres (which is blatantly copied) is owed to Elric of Melnibone as well as sword and sorcery as we know it. At least give Michael Moorcock credit for many ideas in The Witcher because the author of The Witcher certainly didn't.

Is The Witcher a great series? Absolutely. Am I wrong? No.
 
Last edited:

jason10mm

Gold Member
. Elric essentially invented the sword and sorcery genre, and if there's anybody with long silver hair there's definitely some kind of Elric influence, i.e. Sephiroth.
Oh wow, Conan and Fafner and Mouser am cry :p

I'll grant you that Elric was an influence on a lot of "modern" fantasy but hardly the originator of the genre!
 
Oh wow, Conan and Fafner and Mouser am cry :p

I'll grant you that Elric was an influence on a lot of "modern" fantasy but hardly the originator of the genre!
I made a goof, honestly I don't have the time nor patience for people like that to proofread, it's entirely my fault.

I appreciate the correction (I should have said epic fantasy), but most importantly, the lack of name calling.
 
Last edited:

jason10mm

Gold Member
I made a goof, honestly I don't have the time nor patience for people like that to proofread, it's entirely my fault.

I appreciate the correction (I should have said epic fantasy), but most importantly, the lack of name calling.

It's a thread about magic fantasy fiction. No one needs die on this hill :p

And outside the states I'm not sure what the early influences are. Moorcock is a brit, right? And now that I'm binging things I see this is not a new debate.

But is drizzt an elric ripoff? Or the drow in general? I think erikson has silver haired elf types as well. I'm not sure where the ownership of that trait belongs.
 

Pirog123

Banned
Who are you to say my opinions have worth? How pompous and stupid can you get? You just proved your worth when it comes to rational debate and discussion, Witcher fanboy. You have no room to talk about ignorance.

What I said about Elric is fact. Anything you see being called the White Wolf, or an albino protagonist, or anything called the conjunction of spheres (which is blatantly copied) is owed to Elric of Melnibone as well as sword and sorcery as we know it. At least give Michael Moorcock credit for many ideas in The Witcher because the author of The Witcher certainly didn't.

Is The Witcher a great series? Absolutely. Am I wrong? No.
Who are you to say my opinions have worth? How pompous and stupid can you get? You just proved your worth when it comes to rational debate and discussion, Witcher fanboy. You have no room to talk about ignorance.

Mister, you wrote" Elric essentially invented the sword and sorcery genre" - it shows how ignorant your opinions are, just like that one "What I said about Elric is fact. Anything you see being called the White Wolf, or an albino protagonist, or anything called the conjunction of spheres (which is blatantly copied) is owed to Elric of Melnibone as well as sword and sorcery as we know it. At least give Michael Moorcock credit for many ideas in The Witcher because the author of The Witcher certainly didn't."
Rational debate with you - impossible, because I am prepared for disscussion, you are not.
 

Pirog123

Banned
Oh wow, Conan and Fafner and Mouser am cry :p

I'll grant you that Elric was an influence on a lot of "modern" fantasy but hardly the originator of the genre!
Fafner and Mouser is Leibers work -that's an author Sapkowski writes fondly about, Howard not so much, although he acknowledge him, of course
 
It's a thread about magic fantasy fiction. No one needs die on this hill :p

And outside the states I'm not sure what the early influences are. Moorcock is a brit, right? And now that I'm binging things I see this is not a new debate.

But is drizzt an elric ripoff? Or the drow in general? I think erikson has silver haired elf types as well. I'm not sure where the ownership of that trait belongs.
I'm not familiar so I can't say.
 

Karma Jawa

Member
It may well be shit compared to the books. Most adaptations are. Never read them, but a Polish friend of mine says they’re very good (though she said they benefit from a poor translation, whatever that means).

Only played TW3 and personally I really liked the series. Admittedly I’m so starved for stuff to watch that I’ve been reduced to watching two-star rated found footage movies, but I genuinely liked the series. I’d like it more if they swerved away from the main story to have more ‘monster of the week’ episodes.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
It may well be shit compared to the books. Most adaptations are. Never read them, but a Polish friend of mine says they’re very good (though she said they benefit from a poor translation, whatever that means).

I've always wondered how much credit the english speaking world should give to the translator.

Same with stuff like cixun lin.
 

Karma Jawa

Member
I've always wondered how much credit the english speaking world should give to the translator.

Same with stuff like cixun lin.

It can make a huge difference.

The philosopher Heidegger has been deeply misunderstood outside of Germany. The reason is that his work was directed at the common Gernan, and therefore written in a style heavily influenced by the local vernacular.

It would be like someone writing in Cockney rhyming slang and having it translated into Armenian.

According to my friend, his books are deeply unpleasant and ugly in their content, but the English versions brush over that. Her opinion is that she loves his imagination but hates him as a person.
 

Dontero

Banned
I’d be happy to read the books. Just saying that I enjoyed the series without any real context beyond TW3.

Wait till you realize that show fuck up continuity of TW games. Right now it is not apparent because it is early in show but because they made some critical changes rest of story will have to change which means that TW3 lore is fucked if you care about some continuity.

TW1-3 is direct sequel to Books.
 

Azurro

Banned
Sorry for bumping this but I just got around to watching this. I like it so far but the entire SJW aspect to it is distracting a bit.

But what I can not forgive is that they turned my beautiful redhead Triss Merigold into a black and white mixed race girl. I mean, she's cute and everything, bit she's not Triss Merigold. 😭😭
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Sorry for bumping this but I just got around to watching this. I like it so far but the entire SJW aspect to it is distracting a bit.

But what I can not forgive is that they turned my beautiful redhead Triss Merigold into a black and white mixed race girl. I mean, she's cute and everything, bit she's not Triss Merigold. 😭😭
Now that I've played witcher3 (finished last night!) I 100% agree with you. Yen was miscast a little bit but I liked her anyway but damn, Triss done dirty...
 
Top Bottom