Always-honest
Banned
Well you wouldn't be able to tell from this vid. So all we can do is hope at this point.
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New DriveClub gameplay videos (IGN)
- Thread starter bombshell
- Start date
flipswitch
Member
Well you can see some aliasing on the power lines when you drive under them, but power lines are the hardest to eliminate aliasing from.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Agreed. And they also look much better during the day so perhaps the real time lighting is making them more pronounced at night. They are also only 720 upscaled to 1080p too, so that's bound to add more pronounced stepping.
Always-honest
Banned
It seems that way, yes. But don't rule out horrible compression to make it worse.
NullPointer
Member
Oh yeah, I remember that. Night racing in Shift 2 was a pretty harrowing experience.
Once again, your standards for acceptable IQ seem to be based one which machine the game is exclusive for... Makes you look a little bit silly
sankt-Antonio
Banned
I Never understood why devs would put powerlines and the like in a game if they don't have the budget for a competent AA solution. Worst example beeing that room in a alien ship in resistance 2. If you played the game you know what I'm talking about.
NullPointer
Member
I've had that same thought so many times since ResolutionGate first raised its jaggy head from the depths
But are people judging AA from the YouTube/IGN vids? Is that wise? Or did they release some better media?
my standards are to what is to be believed the power of the system. I think mario kart 8 looks better than pretty much any other game on any platform right now. I know that game will not even flinch from a constant 60fps update, and it looks glorious. Im constantly told how powerful the ps4 is, I am not seeing it with this game, after the trailers and hype. That is all.
I don't know why I have really even entertained a response to you, with no evidence etc..but hey...INTERNET
I like the look of the speed etc in this game, i'm just not seeing the OMG that others are seeing. I was also just making the point that a constant 60fps update is a lot more demanding that people are making out, and giving credit for. It deserves to be applauded. I hope driveclub drives great. Which i am sure it will considering the pedigree.
Better AA than Driveclub. Believe.
Miles Quaritch
Member
So what time tomorrow can we expect the direct feed vids?
viveks86
Gold Member
Soon O' Clock
Pop
Member
Soonish
Miles Quaritch
Member
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
5:32 GMT
Hahaha, someone hasn't seen the actual MK8 screenshots.
MK8 has the most obnoxious jaggies I have seen in quite some time. There's zero AA.
Not until Logitech supplies the drivers
I was just talking with one of the guys who is very into details and he noticed how interiors are lit "completely" - like there is no actual car behind the dashboard (rear, rear window, seat, etc) - objects that would cast over dashboard when lit from behind.
People really can notice things
drugstore_cowboy
Member
Didn't PGR3 also do it but the effect was gone in PGR4?
travisbickle
Member
In preparation for Monday, I thought I'd take images of expected quality differences from the various sites: Fingers crossed someone slips Gamersyde a less compressed video this week.
Gamersyde
DriveClub Website
IGN
Gamersyde
DriveClub Website
IGN
nelsonroyale
Member
I will eat my hat if this game has serious AA problems. Picking on the crap youtube footage is not giving a good indication. If you went by that it would look like the aliasing is worse than last E3 (which was pretty poor). I expect the DF to look cleaner than other console racers.
I was only trying to make a point... I wasn't able to see any solid MK8 screens, only 720P ones (unless the game is native 720P. In which case, lols) and that one I found which I believe is 1080P upscaled. Either way, saying MK8 looks better than DC is every bit a stupid comment as it sounds.
mangochutney
Member
I took the opposite from the videos.
There seemed to be little aliasing on the power lines when you're driving under them, but those in the distance had notable crawl and aliasing.
Difficult to tell from such a crappy quality video, but the cars looked to be fine, but previously they'd been quite bad, especially on the interior.
Danlord
Member
In preparation for Monday, I thought I'd take images of expected quality differences from the various sites: Fingers crossed someone slips Gamersyde a less compressed video this week.
Gamersyde
DriveClub Website
IGN
On tablet so apologies if this doesn't display properly.
I can't keep up with the issue of the windscreen reflections but on the new IGN video I can clearly see one of the dials on the side window implying internal reflections are still present, just video quality bitrate ruining the subtleties on the windscreen which we'll see clearly in the HQ videos when they're released.
DemonCleaner
Member
you won't see a really realistic reflection model even next gen.
there is more than one type of reflection. what we have seen in recent high end games like KZSF and SS is that developers mix them together to create a more adequate approximation of reality without crippeling performance to much.
as far as i understand there are three types of reflection methods used in gaming to date:
1.) cube maps - basically a 3dimensional screenshot (in the simplest case a cube) that is reflected in one layer of the reflective material.
mainly used reflection method in previous gens.
pros: not very taxing
cons: not a very accurate approximation of a reflection. cube maps have been very low res last gen, so you wouldn't necessary notice. they are becoming rather high res nowadays, what makes mismatching reflection directions very obvious.
2.) screen space reflection - imagine the reflective surface is a ingame tv with a integrated webcam that allways films the opposite angle you are watching it.
used in stuff like ingame mirrors. sometimes in fluid surfaces like puddles
pros:
-adequate simulation of directional reflections
cons:
- kinda taxing, because the game has to render more than just the players field of view but also the reflections "field of view"
- not really good on not flat surfaces, because with only one "virtual camera" you wont get the directionality right anymore. with a lot cameras it gets unbelivable taxing
3.) specular reflection - imitating the reflection of light rays of a surface with the option of incorporating the specific surface properties (as you see in PBS).
this is the closest approximation of how our sight in reality works
pros:
- perfect directional representation on any surface with any form
- reflective properties of a material can change with the viewing angle (in PBS)
cons:
- is only as good as the lighting system used in game
- the more elaborate the lighting system (extensive indirect lighting) the more taxing the reflection gets
examples:
specular reflections in killzone:
^ the blue light the flying robot thingy is carrying reflects factoring in the reflection, transmission and refraction proporites of the floor
^ sepcular reflection under different angles and material proporties
specular reflections in infamous:
the roof material reflects the sun light. where the signs blocks the rays path the reflective properties of the material change.
drive club:
what we are seeing here must be a specular reflection of the back lights in the other cars paint material. we also see the whole back of the maserati reflecting on the others cars side, which most likely means that that has to be a specular reflection of bounce light. what would be mighty impressive and unseen in any other racing game.
discalimer: i have no idea what im talking about. done a bit of CG in the late 90ies and have no knowledge on realtime graphics whatsoever.
flipswitch
Member
Wow, didn't even notice those things you pointed out in the DriveClub gif. You can even see red car's headlights casting shadows of the car in front. Pretty neat.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I think this is the main problem and the reason some people aren't impressed. It's something you will just 'feel' is right when you're playing but might not be able to quite put your finger on it. Subtly is a HARD sell.
You should take a look at wizardry Polyphony produced with GT5 in 2010 and awe at the acomplishment nobody cares about
DemonCleaner
Member
most of all this is something you will notice when you will play the game on your big screen and not while watching screenshots or internetvideo
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
When people get this up and running on their 1080p TVs, it will fry their eyes. The amount of light bouncing around in the one gif is astonishing.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
The lack of AA and AF on the powerlines and fences is only there because Driveclub is channelling Metropolis Street Racer.
flipswitch
Member
And melt their ps4s.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
They'll already have been melted by the 60fps Watch Doge next month.
Always-honest
Banned
Hopefully the horn.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
OH GOD
Canis lupus
Member
R3TRO
Member
Haha, nice.
flipswitch
Member
Or the dynamic menu!
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
GT5 Prologue too. That is why GT7 on PS4 is one of my most anticipated games in gaming right now.
arhra
Member
Indeed. There's so much wrong in that post it's hard to know where to start. Your cube-mapping explanation was mostly OK, but everything else was totally off the mark.
For starters, "specular reflections" refers not to any particular algorithm, but the physical end result that you're trying to approximate. A perfect specular reflection is a mirror, while a perfect diffuse reflection is a completely matte object. Obviously there's a whole continuum between the two, usually handled in games via assigning specularity and roughness factors to materials, and using those to blur the result you get from whatever reflection algorithm you're using to the appropriate degree.
Those examples from Killzone and Infamous are most likely screen-space reflections, which you completely botched the explanation of. For screen-space reflections, you take your rendered scene (minus reflections, obviously), and using the depth values, normals (surface angle), material properties, and obviously pixel colours, you do a limited raytrace into the scene. With modern GPUs this can be extremely fast and cheap (you don't need to do any additional rendering, because you're just using the scene you already rendered), but it has some major limitations, stemming from the simple fact that you're missing a lot of information compared to a full 3d representation of the scene (anything you can't see, you can't reflect - so anything off-screen is a bust, as are the back faces of objects, etc etc). One of the leads on AC4 did a good writeup of the technique here, including some fantastic hand-drawn illustrations of all the failure cases, and some details on how they addressed them in AC4.
One thing you're absolutely right about, though, is that we're not likely to see truly accurate reflections for a long time. Doing them properly pretty much requires full-blown ray-tracing, so the best we're likely to see in games for now is increasingly sophisticated approximations, and clever tricks to hide the shortcomings of those approximations.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Slide right to look out your right window. Slide left to look out of your left window. And click/hold down to use your rear view mirror.
travisbickle
Member
No, the Driveclub website will put up ign's videos. I was speculating "someone" might slip them to Gamersyde this week.
blastprocessor
The Amiga Brotherhood
They should be drawing their lines anti-aliased to solve this.
Well, there was no global dynamic lightning in GT5P besides HDR and pit "raytrace" sequences, but crazyness of night lightning and lights-casting in GT5 is still unprecedented (especially in V1.00 version, despite night being dense and dark): multiple lights casting, proper environmental casting, global HDR, in-car cast, on-smoke and on-particles casting.. it is simply unbelievable level of attention IMO
Liamario
Banned
How about using it to right your name on the glass condensation.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
One thing racers are still guilty of is the layer between the car and the road where it's almost like the car is floating. Hopefully Drive Club won't have that problem. I love the fact we now how things like Twitch where we can see real gameplay and not doctored screens. Often times we get videos of drive by's or some screens that are not even taken while driving but so far this game is looking good.
dr guildo
Member
And slide up and down to change the view of driving.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Makes sense.