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[nelsonroyale]

Do they annoy you even when Raiden, a male character, use them?
Because in general I would guess that heels aren't that much an attempt to "pander" to a specific sex, as much as an attempt to appeal to the "Rule of Cool".

"I'm so badass that I can fight effectively even on my heels" and all that shit.
I still think they are silly, especially when strikingly out of context, but there's definitely stuff that annoys me more.

Really? You really think that? Heels have two main purposes. Increased elevation and 'sexy' walk.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

The only issue i may have with what's going on in the discussion is the notion that soldiers wear something different from civilians. Uniforms are not enough when James Bond is an option.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Wow you guys cannot be serious. This has got to be a joke.

She's clearly wearing heavy armour everywhere else on her body....her legs, her arms, her torso, pretty everywhere except the area around her cleavage. Coincidence.....no.

Lets roll with you're silly excuses though. Chest armour is too heavy is it? How about some chainmail, or some leather armour, or how about doing the buttons on your shirt.....oh but then the cleavage wouldn't be there would it now. You see this would be okay if she was a bar maid, some villager etc but she is clearly ready for battle with that gear and it just looks stupid to be dressed in heavy armour everywhere else but have your cleavage showing .

She is clearly wearing a cleavage for the only reason cleavages are used for, showing her chest. there is no science behind that. I don't see how it can be complicated.

The type of amour has nothing to do with it.

edit: the complete version of that piece of armor would have the gambeson closed, so she is not revealing anymore. But why would she want to put another plate or metal on her when the gain would be negative? that was the point of my previous post you quoted, the solution isn't adding metal, is closing the dam thing she is wearing.

 

[Crossing Eden]

The only issue i may have with what's going on in the discussion is the notion that soldiers wear something different from civilians. Uniforms are not enough when James Bond is an option.

Well in the world of the Witcher, soldiers do wear different things from civilians, just like how nobles wear something different from peasants, or how sorceresses wear different outfits than soldiers and go into battle not wearing armor.

 

[MartyStu]

Wow you guys cannot be serious. This has got to be a joke.

She's clearly wearing heavy armour everywhere else on her body....her legs, her arms, her torso, pretty everywhere except the area around her cleavage. Coincidence.....no.

Lets roll with you're silly excuses though. Chest armour is too heavy is it? How about some chainmail, or some leather armour, or how about doing the buttons on your shirt.....oh but then the cleavage wouldn't be there would it now. You see this would be okay if she was a bar maid, some villager etc but she is clearly ready for battle with that gear and it just looks stupid to be dressed in heavy armour everywhere else but have your cleavage showing .

You are right, those are excuses. You want my real opinion? It is a relatively minor thing to get hung over. Even for Witcher 2, let alone media in general.

The design is neither demeaning, nor does it go too far. Unnecessary? Sure. Symptom of our culture's need to fetishize women in the media? Absolutely. Worthy of the harsh criticism received in this thread? Lol-no.

 

[HeelPower]

Yes very much so. Not so much for TW2 and what we have seen of TW3, but certainly so for other games.

And yeah, Triss is super sexualized in the game, but in the style of GoT, it does not reduce the role she plays in the story, it just its own (unnecessary) thing.

Outer outfit is important but it is of secondary importance to me.

Let me reiterate.Triss' modest outfit in TW2 didn't stop her from being a highly sexualized character.

Character treatment and writing comes first then outer outfit.

 

[MartyStu]

Outer outfit is important but it is of secondary importance to me.

Let me reiterate.Triss' modest outfit in TW2 didn't stop her from being a highly sexualized character.

Character treatment and writing comes first then outer outfit.

Of course. Discussions of the 'Outer outfit' still matters.

Especially since sometimes what a character wears can undermine the way they are written.

 

[Sentenza]

Really? You really think that? Heels have two main purposes. Increased elevation and 'sexy' walk.

Yeah, in other words they are a "visual enhancement", a cosmetic factor. And "sexy walk" is not perceived as a plus just by the opposite sex.
Leave to players a chance to create their own characters, give them a "heels" option and I would bet a substantial sum you would see a generous amount of both males and females creating characters with heels.

 

[Teremap]

You're assuming too much. You're acting as if they had a much different design for Saskia, and then a higher up came in and said, "No no, this just isn't right, she needs cleavage to be sexier for the viewer." That's a character that's a result of sexism. Does the camera linger on her breasts, or call attention to them, no, does she have a nude version and does she engage in combat in her human form constantly, no. Not to mention the fact that we play as a very buff, scarred up smooth talking male known for his promiscuity, who shows more skin throughout the game than Saskia.

Wow, okay, you clearly have a very different idea of what constitutes sexism than I do.

Let it be said that sexism does NOT have to be the result of conscious action done specifically to demean women. It can be something as innocuous as a character designer leaving her shirt unbuttoned when it is completely unnecessary to do so.

I mean, this is pretty much the whole point of Anita Sarkeesian's Tropes vs Women series. I guess if you don't like or agree with that, then we're not going to find much common ground here.

No, I didn't, I even addressed it more in a successive post.

I'm afraid I'm not seeing what you're seeing in that example.

 

[HeelPower]

Of course. Discussions of the 'Outer outfit' still matters.

Especially since sometimes what a character wears can undermine the way they are written.

I think outer outfit can have a negative,limiting effect when its too extreme.

But in the context of this outfit in TW3, I don't think it influences the way Triss will be written.

We already know She'll basically follow geralt around the game asking for sex while fulfilling a plot device here and there.Whether they put her in a cloak or a bikini.

 

[MartyStu]

I think outer outfit can have a negative,limiting effect when its too extreme.

But in the context of this outfit in TW3, I don't think it influences the way Triss will be written.

We already know She'll basically follow geralt around the game asking for sex while fulfilling a plot device here and there.Whether they put her in a cloak or a bikini.

True, but we have already agreed on this several times.

 

[Sentenza]

I'm afraid I'm not seeing what you're seeing in that example.

I don't even know what you are talking about, since I didn't make any example in the successive reply.

Wow, okay, you clearly have a very different idea of what constitutes sexism than I do.

Let it be said that sexism does NOT have to be the result of conscious action done specifically to demean women. It can be something as innocuous as a character designer leaving her shirt unbuttoned when it is completely unnecessary to do so.

I mean, this is pretty much the whole point of Anita Sarkeesian's Tropes vs Women series. I guess if you don't like or agree with that, then we're not going to find much common ground here.

Just out of curiosity, why does Saskia irritate you so much but that doesn't apply for the picture you picked as avatar?
Not that I care much, nor I hope in a particular convincing answer, I'm just interested in how you will rationalize it.
Because you can't deny that's even more blatant pandering.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Wow, okay, you clearly have a very different idea of what constitutes sexism than I do.

Let it be said that sexism does NOT have to be the result of conscious action done specifically to demean women. It can be something as innocuous as a character designer leaving her shirt unbuttoned when it is completely unnecessary to do so.

You know what's funny, is that neither Saskia's outfit nor Triss's outfits have any buttons at all. You're seriously blowing this way out of proportion than it needs to be. Especially when there are much worse examples in the same game. And that fact that out of every female character in the game that plays a significant role in the plot, Saskia is the least sexualized and her outfit is contextualized within the story.

 

[Maniac]

Let's label it as a neologism and call the day.

i played about 4-5 hours and didn't get to that character

that doesn't really put the question to bed though, because if you're wearing armor for appearances' sake then why are you covering every part of your body other than the chest?



i am saying that it is a weird and kind of stupid looking design

Gambesons are practically wearable saunas. No joke. Fuck those things.

While I don't usually take part in discussions like this come on dude. Her design makes sense does it. Wearing strong armour on her legs, hands, torso.....oh but around her neck she decides to unbutton her shirt and show her cleavage. Much sense.

After your dumb-ass comments and whatnot in your awful Dragons Dogma vs Witcher thread, your opinion matters little. Just, get out.

Really though? Comfort. If you didn't bother reading anything in the thread down till your lousy comment, newsflash;

Spoiler

She's a fucking dragon

. She's keeping up appearances for her rebel-army. Carrying extra armour, or having a closed gambeson (making you sweat like a damned pig and increasing your odds of dehydration) isn't really sensible nor, well, realistic or anything.

 

[ilikesanta]

Very high res

is it just me?

 

[3DimensionalAperture]

Let it be said that sexism does NOT have to be the result of conscious action done specifically to demean women. It can be something as innocuous as a character designer leaving her shirt unbuttoned when it is completely unnecessary to do so.

No, you don't get to decide what words mean arbitrarily at your whim. A character in a narrative allowing cleavage in her outfit does not in itself denote prejudice or discrimination and it NEVER will. You need far more evidence to accuse something as being sexist and be taken as serious criticism.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

She is clearly wearing a cleavage for the only reason cleavages are used for, showing her chest. there is no science behind that. I don't see how it can be complicated.

The type of amour has nothing to do with it.

edit: the complete version of that piece of armor would have the gambeson closed, so she is not revealing anymore. But why would she want to put another plate or metal on her when the gain would be negative? that was the point of my previous post you quoted, the solution isn't adding metal, is closing the dam thing she is wearing.

You are right, those are excuses. You want my real opinion? It is a relatively minor thing to get hung over. Even for Witcher 2, let alone media in general.

The design is neither demeaning, nor does it go too far. Unnecessary? Sure. Symptom of our culture's need to fetishize women in the media? Absolutely. Worthy of the harsh criticism received in this thread? Lol-no.

Well I'm glad you guys admit it. The designer of the character clearly had intentions. Nothing big though just a silly design.

Gambesons are practically wearable saunas. No joke. Fuck those things.



After your dumb-ass comments and whatnot in your awful Dragons Dogma vs Witcher thread, your opinion matters little. Just, get out.

Really though? Comfort. If you didn't bother reading anything in the thread down till your lousy comment, newsflash;

Spoiler

She's a fucking dragon

. She's keeping up appearances for her rebel-army. Carrying extra armour, or having a closed gambeson (making you sweat like a damned pig and increasing your odds of dehydration) isn't really sensible nor, well, realistic or anything.

It all makes sense now. That designer was really a genius wasn't he/she. To take into account how much she would sweat and be dehydrated he really cared for her. Its amazing that would all happen by simply buttoning her shirt....forget the heavy armour everywhere else, if she did those buttons I am sure she would be sweating like a pig. Such realism must be applauded.

 

[Maniac]

Oh no, not the artistic freedom card!

Look, they are selling a commercial product that people are out to buy. As a customer I am well within my rights to criticize what they are selling me. If I don't like it I am going to damn well let them know what I think of their work.

"Artistic freedom" my ass. The moment you start selling a product is the moment all your "freedom" goes out the window. If the customer doesn't like your work they are going to tell you as much, and even withdraw from funding you if you don't respond positively to their feedback. That's business.

It's also funny that people only pull the "artistic freedom" card when the subject is sexism. Because sexism is just so important to art that it MUST be defended at all costs! Yeah. Okay.

I mean, look, if it's so important they have that cleavage window in there, they can shut me up just by having a male character do something equally stupid. It's that easy. I mean, if it's really that important. Obviously, I don't think it is, and furthermore I think actually having her fully armored would look better aesthetically to begin with, so what do you really lose here? How important is this to you, really?

I'll re-iterate on what I've said before; Please, by all means, wear a gambeson with 10-20 kilos of armour ontop, on a sunny day, for 12+ hours. If you think you wont open it... Well, honestly? You know nothing, Jon Snow.

Yes, you did.

Dandelion is not a fighter, nor is he wearing armor to begin with. You WOULD have a point if both of these were true, but he's just a wandering minstrel, nothing more.


I should say that I am totally okay with characters looking pretty. That's not an issue for me.


Oh yeah, that's even worse.

Credit where credit is due, at least Saskia wears flat soled boots.

... So what, you're losing your shit over one armoured person in the game showing cleavage, whereas there are many other armoured females in the game showing none at all? Some of which are the strongest female characters ever written and created in games?

PS; Your avatar... Are you a fan?

Well I'm glad you guys admit it. The designer of the character clearly had intentions. Nothing big though just a silly design.



It all makes sense now. That designer was really a genius wasn't he/she. To take into account how much she would sweat and be dehydrated he really cared for her. Its amazing that would all happen by simply buttoning her shirt....forget the heavy armour everywhere else, if she did those buttons I am sure she would be sweating like a pig. Such realism must be applauded.

I'm not at all saying that. I'm saying it makes sense. It's grounded, it's realistic. It's what a real person would do if they stand around in that sort of armour without actually doing any fighting in it. If you're wearing it to be an icon, the practicality of it isn't of the utmost importance.

And your chest is one of the most prominent areas of your body when it comes to thermoregulation and perspiration evaporation, so all I'm saying is it's sensible. But really, it's mostly a design decision to make her stand out as a strong, fearless warrior & / or leader.

PS: I was (mostly ) kidding about the "Get out" and whatnot, you spoke with hyperbole, but that's hardly a reason to disregard your opinion.

 

[Savitar]

Some people need to read the Witcher novels.

 

[-Deimos]

Gambesons are practically wearable saunas. No joke. Fuck those things.

After your dumb-ass comments and whatnot in your awful Dragons Dogma vs Witcher thread, your opinion matters little. Just, get out.

Really though? Comfort. If you didn't bother reading anything in the thread down till your lousy comment, newsflash;

Spoiler

She's a fucking dragon

. She's keeping up appearances for her rebel-army. Carrying extra armour, or having a closed gambeson (making you sweat like a damned pig and increasing your odds of dehydration) isn't really sensible nor, well, realistic or anything.

Except that we don't know

Spoiler

that she's a dragon

until later in the game, neither do most of her followers and we can actually play the game without knowing. Finding excuses for her cleavage is just as bad as complaining about it. It's a video game, is it too hard to accept that the developers put a little eye-candy into her design at the expense of logic?

Plus, she's already covered in armor everywhere else. The amount of "comfort" she gains from not covering her boobs probably isn't worth losing a vital piece of armor, especially when less important parts of her body are protected. Your dehydration argument makes no sense at all for the same reason. That small boob window isn't going to negate the full outfit of armor she's wearing everywhere else.

It's fan service, nothing else.

 

[Ridesh]

Good lord at the justifications.

Gamers usually like pretty/hot characters, so game designers create pretty/hot characters with some fanservice here and there and that's it.

But go on, I would like to read some justifications for Ciri's high heels and open shirt.

 

[danwarb]

Wow, okay, you clearly have a very different idea of what constitutes sexism than I do.

Let it be said that sexism does NOT have to be the result of conscious action done specifically to demean women. It can be something as innocuous as a character designer leaving her shirt unbuttoned when it is completely unnecessary to do so.

I mean, this is pretty much the whole point of Anita Sarkeesian's Tropes vs Women series. I guess if you don't like or agree with that, then we're not going to find much common ground here.

I'm afraid I'm not seeing what you're seeing in that example.

People occasionally will leave a shirt button undone "unnecessarily". It is not harmful for art to reflect life, or to go nuts. Are you after attempting social engineering through censorship of all media? Games are a relative feminist utopia next the other popular mediums. Can you demonstrate that games have any measurable negative influence on behaviour (I'm guessing nope)? Your argument and idea of feminism seems unnecessary.

Feminism has reality to deal with.

 

[Teremap]

You know what's funny, is that neither Saskia's outfit nor Triss's outfits have any buttons at all. You're seriously blowing this way out of proportion than it needs to be. Especially when there are much worse examples in the same game. And that fact that out of every female character in the game that plays a significant role in the plot, Saskia is the least sexualized and her outfit is contextualized within the story.

I don't even know what you are talking about, since I didn't make any example in the successive reply.

For some reason I'm finding it remarkably difficult to get you guys to understand that a big part of my problem is the fact that she is wearing armor. She can wear whatever she likes when she's not geared up for combat - in fact, it would be better if she wore a completely different outfit when she's simply out around town if it's so hot and heavy (but it should still make sense for the character).

My biggest problem with boob plate is simply the fact that it completely defeats the purpose of armor. It's dumb.

Just out of curiosity, why does Saskia irritate you so much but that doesn't apply for the picture you picked as avatar?
Not that I care much, nor I hope in a particular convincing answer, I'm just interested in how you will rationalize it.
Because you can't deny that's even more blatant pandering.

One, it's fan art. The fans can draw characters in blatantly pornographic situations for all I care. I'm not the one paying for it. Two, my argument is not against sexuality per se, just the one-sided treatment of it. Three, she's not wearing armor with an obvious cleavage window that's practically begging to be shot with an arrow or three, is she?

No, you don't get to decide what words mean arbitrarily at your whim. A character in a narrative allowing cleavage in her outfit does not in itself denote prejudice or discrimination and it NEVER will. You need far more evidence to accuse something as being sexist and be taken as serious criticism.

Huuuuuuh?

Okay. Thought exercise for you:
Japanese artist draws blackface on a character thinking it's just a nifty design. Doesn't realize the racial implications of it, just puts it out there. Is it not still a problematic depiction just because his intention was not hostile?

I'll re-iterate on what I've said before; Please, by all means, wear a gambeson with 10-20 kilos of armour ontop, on a sunny day, for 12+ hours. If you think you wont open it... Well, honestly? You know nothing, Jon Snow.

This is such a ridiculous argument.

Okay. So why doesn't she wear something else?

... So what, you're losing your shit over one armoured person in the game showing cleavage, whereas there are many other armoured females in the game showing none at all? Some of which are the strongest female characters ever written and created in games?

PS; Your avatar... Are you a fan?

I don't know why you think I'm "losing my shit" here. People push back, I push back at them. It's as simple as that.

This image encapsulates my mental state at the time of posting.

As for my avatar, see above.

People occasionally will leave a shirt button undone "unnecessarily". It is not harmful for art to reflect life, or to go nuts. Are you after attempting social engineering through censorship of all media? Games are a relative feminist utopia next the other popular mediums. Can you demonstrate that games have any measurable negative influence on behaviour (I'm guessing nope)? Your argument and idea of feminism seems unnecessary.

Feminism has reality to deal with.

I should keep count of how many times this straw man gets erected. Pretty sure it's a depressingly high number at this point.

Armor is designed to protect. Armor with a noticeable hole in it right where the heart should be fails at its intended design. It's dumb. Period.

And for some reason it's only the females who get this kind of shit, so yes, it's also sexist too. A very low level of sexism but it still exists.

 

[HeelPower]

But go on, I would like to read some justifications for Ciri's high heels and open shirt.

well that's an awesome design.

Makes me wish she were the main character in fact.

Have no justification to offer other than she looks strong, capable and beautiful in equal measures(not in a damn she's hot! kind of way btw)

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Well I'm glad you guys admit it. The designer of the character clearly had intentions. Nothing big though just a silly design.
.

Not silly at all, may as well be the point. There's even a side quest in which one encounters a man's dreams, in which he fantasizes about her. She is, after all, the the center of attention of many men, and face of a revolution, and if she was taught anything by the sorceress, may as well be that the most powerful women in the world she lives in put way too much effort into looking seductive.

 

[Sentenza]

For some reason I'm finding it remarkably difficult to get you guys to understand that a big part of my problem is the fact that she is wearing armor.

Well, I guess part of the problem comes form it not being a compelling argument at all?

But go on, I would like to read some justifications for Ciri's high heels and open shirt.

I'm... not eve sure why an "open shirt" (...OMG!) would need a "justification" at all?
At least for anyone who isn't a rabid prude.

My biggest problem with boob plate is simply the fact that it completely defeats the purpose of armor. It's dumb.

Well, one: that's a myth as much as "wearing plate impede even basic movements".
Boob plate may not be the most effective design but it would be better than not wearing armor at all in the middle of a battle.
Two: she's not wearing a "boob armor" at all. In fact she's simply not wearing a chest piece. Only her waist/belly is covered in plate.
Third: I'm not sure what other kind of weird explanation you are hoping for, beside the fact that they obviously made it because they thought it looked good. Because that's the only reason.
And it sort of does, in fact.

 

[-Deimos]

And for some reason it's only the females who get this kind of shit, so yes, it's also sexist too. A very low level of sexism but it still exists.

Well obviously, these games are made for an audience consisting mostly for men, why would they depict male characters in a sexual way? Plus, men don't have boobs so it's kind of hard to sexualize their clothing. Letho's arms are uncovered, probably for the sole reason of showing off how swole he is. That's the best they can do with a male character. Sure, I could come up with some BS reason why his arms aren't protected, but we all know it's to emphasize his huge arms.

 

[RedSwirl]

well that's an awesome design.

Makes me wish she were the main character in fact.

She might eventually be. Who knows...

 

[ScepticMatt]

Makes me wish she were the main character in fact.

I bet she'll be the MC in the next game, because it won't be Geralt.

 

[Totobeni]

well that's an awesome design.

Makes me wish she were the main character in fact.

Have no justification to offer other than she looks strong, capable and beautiful in equal measures(not in a damn she's hot! kind of way btw)

Ciri is the protagonist of the books. the games are Geralt's return story.

that is not the problem for me here. for me the problem is that CD Projekt RED don't respect the source material and the creator vision for his characters. it's not about making them more sexy, it's about making them different than the the same characters that Sapkowski wrote.

Ciri design is just wrong going with the books, going with the creator of the Witcher series, she was never really a super model like, no one mentions that she is super pretty and aside from her big emerald like eyes no one talk about her body been special, she was never put with Jen on that scale. CD Projekt RED should not fail at that, Ciri hiding her scar is characteristic feature for her, maybe the most known one, it's something she will always do, and CD Projekt RED threw that out of thew window (same with other character like geralt and triss and god only know what the hell they are doing with Jen), Ciri been tomboy-ish is also mentioned in the books so the High-heeled footwear go against her character in the books.

 

[Crossing Eden]

well that's an awesome design.

Makes me wish she were the main character in fact.

Have no justification to offer other than she looks strong, capable and beautiful in equal measures(not in a damn she's hot! kind of way btw)

. Especially considering that this is supposed to be like a daughter.

 

[Sentenza]

I bet she'll be the MC in the next game, because it won't be Geralt.

I'm actually incline to believe eventual next Witcher games would be about a customizable, player-created main character.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

The pic of Triss reminds me of Vica Kerekes...

...I approve.

 

[Ridesh]

Well, I guess part of the problem comes form it not being a compelling argument at all?


I'm... not eve sure why an "open shirt" (...OMG!) would need a "justification" at all?
At least for anyone who isn't a rabid prude.

I don't know why a character who fights and runs constantly would use high heels and a open shirt showing her bra for other reasons than fanservice and look sexier, just that.

Not complaining btw, I like her design, but yeah.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Armor is designed to protect. Armor with a noticeable hole in it right where the heart should be fails at its intended design. It's dumb. Period.
.

Half Plates are something that exist.

edit: wiil add that Psycho_Mantis was right in that she could add a neck, I wouldn't unless i was on a horse though.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Well obviously, these games are made for an audience consisting mostly for men, why would they depict male characters in a sexual way? Plus, men don't have boobs so it's kind of hard to sexualize their clothing. Letho's arms are uncovered, probably for the sole reason of showing off how swole he is.

Out of every character in this game, Geralt is the one who shows the most skin. He has the most nude appearances. Let's also not forget the bulge in his paints. That's still huge even when a sling is holding it up.

 

[Sentenza]

Half Plates are something that exist.

What a twist.

Ciri is the protagonist of the books. the games are Geralt's return story.

that is not the problem for me here. for me the problem is that CD Projekt RED don't respect the source material and the creator vision for his characters. it's not about making them more sexy, it's about making them different than the the same characters that Sapkowski wrote.

Ciri design is just wrong going with the books, going with the creator of the Witcher series, she was never really a super model like, no one mentions that she is super pretty and aside from her big emerald like eyes no one talk about her body been special, she was never put with Jen on that scale. CD Projekt RED should not fail at that, Ciri hiding her scar is characteristic feature for her, maybe the most known one, it's something she will always do, and CD Projekt RED threw that out of thew window (same with other character like geralt and triss and god only know what the hell they are doing with Jen), Ciri been tomboy-ish is also mentioned in the books so the High-heeled footwear go against her character in the books.

Do you realize that Ciri ranged from.. What? 14 to 16 in the books... and she's supposed to be somewhere around 22 years old now, right?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Half Plates are something that exist.

Forgot that these exist. Certainly puts a hole in that "Absolutely all armor should cover every inch of the body! Period!" stuff.

 

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

Half Plates are something that exist.

Is the second image a depiction of the battle of Agincourt? Lightly armoured or unarmoured English archers overcame heavily armoured French knights bogged down in heavy, quicksand-like mud. It's a historical example of where heavier armour didn't necessarily confer an advantage.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Is the second image a depiction of the battle of Agincourt? Lightly armoured or unarmoured English archers overcame heavily armoured French knights bogged down in heavy, quicksand-like mud. It's a historical example of where heavier armour didn't necessarily confer an advantage.

This is were I found it: http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=14134

 

[3DimensionalAperture]

Huuuuuuh?

Okay. Thought exercise for you:
Japanese artist draws blackface on a character thinking it's just a nifty design. Doesn't realize the racial implications of it, just puts it out there. Is it not still a problematic depiction just because his intention was not hostile?

Blackface is in it of itself racist. Its entire foundation exists for nonblacks to mock and stereotype black people. This is why when it's used in modern entertainment - MANY people get offended and probably have more of a right to do so. Cleavage however, does not exist to mock and stereotype women. Not at face value anyways. I'm not even sure how you could even compare the two.

And to the actual point here, if someone draws a character design that evokes blackface innocuously - not knowing the racial implications - that most CERTAINLY doesn't make that person racist. Just like it doesn't make the character designer of this Witcher 3 character sexist just to create someone with cleavage. You would need far more legitimate evidence to support such a claim for your criticism to be taken seriously. How does the narrative, the characters within the narrative, their designs, etc portray women in a prejudicial or discriminatory way? Crying sexism at a woman with her shirt slightly unbuttoned, without talking about her context in the narrative, or her character in general, is not enough. It's bad criticism.

 

[UnrealEck]

I can't wait to play this game. I wonder if I'll get to protect Ciri as Geralt. She looks like she can handle herself but I'd like to fight for her. She's really pretty and doesn't need the high heels.

 

[Sentenza]

I can't wait to play this game. I wonder if I'll get to protect Ciri as Geralt. She looks like she can handle herself but I'd like to fight for her. She's really pretty and doesn't need the high heels.

Well, I'm not really familiar with her in the books (I have yet to read the ones where she comes in, just The Last Wish so far) but as far as I know she's not just able to protect herself... She's actually supposed to be fucking overpowered by the end of the saga, kind of a broken character.
The mere fact that "she's in danger", as the trailer says, should probably be telling of what a dangerous enemy the Wild Hunt is supposed to be.

 

[Teremap]

Well, I guess part of the problem comes form it not being a compelling argument at all?

Well, if you don't think it looks as dumb as I do there's not much I can do to convince you otherwise.

Well, one: that's a myth as much as "wearing plate impede even basic movements".
Boob plate may not be the most effective design but it would be better than not wearing armor at all in the middle of a battle.

What?

Look, plate armor is designed to DEFLECT blows away from the wearer's vital organs. Boob plate directs blows directly into the sternum. You can't deny this. This is basic physics.

Two: she's not wearing a "boob armor" at all. In fact she's simply not wearing a chest piece. Only her waist/belly is covered in plate.
Third: I'm not sure what other kind of weird explanation you are hoping for, beside the fact that they obviously made it because they thought it looked good. Because that's the only reason.
And it sort of does, in fact.

You're right, it's not boob plate, it's a cleavage window, which is still a very close cousin of boob plate. But, you know, the fact that they could very easily have covered that up is part of what bothers me about it.

Half Plates are something that exist.

edit: wiil add that Psycho_Mantis was right in that she could add a neck, I wouldn't unless i was on a horse though.

Note how every single one of these depictions included studded armor or heavy padding underneath.

Saskia still looks dumb.

Well obviously, these games are made for an audience consisting mostly for men, why would they depict male characters in a sexual way? Plus, men don't have boobs so it's kind of hard to sexualize their clothing. Letho's arms are uncovered, probably for the sole reason of showing off how swole he is. That's the best they can do with a male character. Sure, I could come up with some BS reason why his arms aren't protected, but we all know it's to emphasize his huge arms.

Now THAT'S gender equality.

But you do raise a fair point. Part of the problem is simply in the homogeneity of the development team. More women on the development team would probably go a long way to helping keep inequities like that in check. Unfortunately, that alone is not necessarily enough, but it sure does help.

Blackface is in it of itself racist. Its entire foundation exists for nonblacks to mock and stereotype black people. This is why when it's used in modern entertainment - MANY people get offended and probably have more of a right to do so. Cleavage however, does not exist to mock and stereotype women. Not at face value anyways. I'm not even sure how you could even compare the two.

And to the actual point here, if someone draws a character design that evokes blackface innocuously - not knowing the racial implications - that most CERTAINLY doesn't make that person racist. Just like it doesn't make the character designed of this Witcher 3 character sexist just to create someone with cleavage. You would need far more legitimate evidence to support such a claim for your criticism to be taken seriously. How does the narrative, the characters within the narrative, their designs, etc portray women in a prejudicial or discriminatory way? Crying sexism at a woman with her shirt slightly unbuttoned, without talking about her context in the narrative, or her character in general, is not enough. It's bad criticism.

Yes, that's mostly right. But what you seem to be missing is that I am not accusing the development team of being sexist, I am accusing Saskia's design of being sexist.

Again, only the women get this sort of treatment. If I ever start seeing cleavage windows on guys you'll hear nothing more from me (except possibly praise). Moreover, if boob plate or cleavage windows are used in the game I would hope they're actually addressed in some form or fashion - especially if it's the character getting struck in the chest at some point and realizing what a doofus she's being.

 

[Crossing Eden]

Well, I'm not really familiar with her in the books (I have yet to read the ones where she comes in, just The Last Wish so far) but as far as I know she's not just able to protect herself... She's actually supposed to be fucking overpowered, kind of a broken character.

Nuff said. Ciri is a badass.

 

[freshVeggie]

I guess the models are in-game models but the lightning is not?! Some places look too good. Hope I am wrong.
Wouldn't her chest get cold with that cleavage though?

 

[Crossing Eden]

Note how every single one of these depictions included studded armor or heavy padding underneath.

Saskia still looks dumb.

Sorry but no. Don't even try to pretend like you can't clearly see that she's wearing studded padding on her upper body and heavy padding on the arms directly underneath the half plate armor. The padding on the arm being so thick that it has to be tied to allow for easier movement. In fact, it's the exact same padding that the player can wear, it's referred to as "quilted leather."
She looks much more thing without it during the brief instance we see her not wearing it during the peasant's dream sequence. You're acting like she looks like this. http://i1.sinaimg.cn/gm/cr/2011/0607/3339009880.jpg

 

[-Deimos]

I can't wait to play this game. I wonder if I'll get to protect Ciri as Geralt. She looks like she can handle herself but I'd like to fight for her. She's really pretty and doesn't need the high heels.

I'll fight for you, m'lady.

Spoiler

Sorry.

Ciri is the protagonist of the books. the games are Geralt's return story.

that is not the problem for me here. for me the problem is that CD Projekt RED don't respect the source material and the creator vision for his characters. it's not about making them more sexy, it's about making them different than the the same characters that Sapkowski wrote.

Ciri design is just wrong going with the books, going with the creator of the Witcher series, she was never really a super model like, no one mentions that she is super pretty and aside from her big emerald like eyes no one talk about her body been special, she was never put with Jen on that scale. CD Projekt RED should not fail at that, Ciri hiding her scar is characteristic feature for her, maybe the most known one, it's something she will always do, and CD Projekt RED threw that out of thew window (same with other character like geralt and triss and god only know what the hell they are doing with Jen), Ciri been tomboy-ish is also mentioned in the books so the High-heeled footwear go against her character in the books.

Minor spoilers from the books.

Spoiler

Ciri is mentioned to be pretty many times in the books. No one is talking about her body because she's only a teen. Ciri is hiding her scar, it even says it right there on that image of her. She's tomboyish as a child after living with Geralt and the other witchers but that changes when Triss stays with them at Kaer Morhen during the winter and even more after she stays with Yennefer to study magic.

But you do raise a fair point. Part of the problem is simply in the homogeneity of the development team. More women on the development team would probably go a long way to helping keep inequities like that in check. Unfortunately, that alone is not necessarily enough, but it sure does help.

The problem isn't a balance of gender in the development team, there are more women in game development than people think. It's about the audience. At then end of the day, video game development is a business and people make games to make money. Sex sells, and the majority of their customers are straight men.

 

[Sentenza]

Well, if you don't think it looks as dumb as I do there's not much I can do to convince you otherwise.

Eh, there isn't, but that's not even the point.
The point is that your effort to stress the distinction between "it's just a fashionable outfit" and "it's actually an armor" is completely arbitrary to me.
Especially in a context where the person wearing that armor use it mostly as a parade armor to mark her status and she's rarely involved in any actual fight.

There's a Prince moving often to her side who does the very same thing.

What?

Look, plate armor is designed to DEFLECT blows away from the wearer's vital organs. Boob plate directs blows directly into the sternum. You can't deny this. This is basic physics.

It's a MYTH. For a start, a heavy blow directly on your sternum with an impact weapon would probably kill you regardless of what kind of plate you are wearing. A "boob armor" following the shape of a female breast would probably make just a trivial difference, maybe not even that unless the shape isn't really carved deeply in.

Then again, unlike some people seem to believe, people fighting in heavy armors didn't rely particularly on their defensive sturdiness to survive blows, they actually avoided and deflected them actively, relying just partially on the plate.
Also, unlike aeolist claimed, protection on your arms wasn't the most superfluous one but the most important. Like in boxing you use your guard with arms and elbows to defend from an opponent's fists, in skirmish people relied on their weapons, their shields and their arms to block and parry most of the blows.

You're right, it's not boob plate, it's a cleavage window, which is still a very close cousin of boob plate. But, you know, the fact that they could very easily have covered that up is part of what bothers me about it.

Turned out it's not even that, it seems to be a textbook half plate.

More women on the development team would probably go a long way to helping keep inequities like that in check.

I'm all for that! More women into development, please.

 

[Serra]

Only Neogaf can derail every thread into discussion about misogyny in games.

Oh and I liked TW2 Triss outfit better.