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[DancingJesus]

To be honest, I'll be very pleasantly surprised if I like Other M as much as Prime 1 or 3. And the snotty "Don't complain!!!11" attitude in here is sickening and immature.

But I can understand why Prime's story doesn't get brought up in Other M. It was a side-story about Phazon, with Metroids and Space Pirates as primarily secondary concerns. Metroid Prime itself barely resembled a Metroid (for the one game that it wasn't a purple Samus), and why on Earth it even existed (or if it was even a real Metroid) is never explained. The Chozo are space mystics with psychic powers and Ridley is a robot and there's moth people and other bounty hounters. It's a different spin on the Metroid universe.

Also, while Sakamoto is a really weird-ass dude with some questionable ideas regarding some styles of games, he's said that the Prime series is fantastic many times. He's not insulting it or anything.

Yep.

Prime was excellent for so many reasons. Superb art design which easily overtakes Other M, subtle story, brooding atmosphere and beautiful environments.

It's sad that eight year old Metroid game surpasses the graphical art style of a Metroid title in 2010.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I'm comfortable with Mother Brain just being the leader of the Space Pirates on Zebes. The manga's explanation is just as hokey and badly contrived as the Aurora units. It's one of my pet peeves when someone takes an established universe and tries to find "clever" ways to make everything connect or overlap. Every time Mother Brain's origins come up it's always in tandem with one of the other existing elements of the Metroid universe, which always makes it come across as dumb and overly convenient.

I had no arguments about the quality of the narrative in this story about space dragons and flying jellyfish, I was just responding to someone saying that Prime 3 contributed something new and "canonical" to the "main" Metroid story.

It also may be one of the reasons that Sakamoto may not acknowledge Prime. His games and Retro's games have different sci-fi cliche ideas about giant brains, bird people, and space-faring arthropod buccaneers.

Sorta like why Valve doesn't directly acknowledge or incorporate the stories (and probably never will) of Gearbox's fantastic Opposing Force and (lackluster) Blue Shift expansions.

 

[Beth Cyra]

Yep.

Pot calling the kettel black....just sayin.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

I had no arguments about the quality of the narrative in this story about space dragons and flying jellyfish, I was just responding to someone saying that Prime 3 contributed something new and "canonical" to the "main" Metroid story.

I know what you were getting at, I'm just being cheeky. But... space dragons and flying jellyfish used to actually sort of make a certain sort of cryptic sense. Don't forget that. Metroid's story is like water though, the more tightly it's grasped the more it just slips out from between the fingers. Right now I think Sakamoto is standing in a puddle.

 

[Datschge]

Pot calling the kettel black....just sayin.

That's going through all the Metroid threads over the years though. 2D Metroid to Prime and now back.

 

[DancingJesus]

Pot calling the kettel black....just sayin.

Um, no good sir. That is directed towards you. I never once said "don't complain"?

He's talking about people of opposing opinions who disagree with the rabid fanbase in this thread and were attacked for it.

What are you talking about?

Scratch that - drop it.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

I know what you were getting at, I'm just being cheeky. But.. space dragons and flying jellyfish used to actually sort of make a certain sort of cryptic sense. Don't forget that. Metroid's story is like water though, the more tightly it's grasped the more it just slips out from between the fingers. Right now I think Sakamoto is standing in a puddle.

To be fair, the only time that "Mother Brain was built by the Chozo" and "Metroids were designed by the Chozo to eat the X" appeared were:

-In a Japan-only comic tie-in,
-Stuffed into the back of Metroid Fusion's manual (there's some hint about Metroids' origins in Super's manual as well)
-And a developer mailbag Q&A on the Japanese Zero Mission site.


Flavor stuff for the nerdy fans.

 

[Boney]

But you have to wait to play a game before judging, and besides, everything you're saying is wrong because the game will be awesome!

Why are you so mean to me

 

[Shin Johnpv]

It's sad that eight year old Metroid game surpasses the graphical art style of a Metroid title in 2010.

See I don't look at things that way. Other M is just going for something much different. The art work and enviornments in Prime were going for this very realistic, lived in look. Other M seems to be going for a slightly more saturated, like Super Metroid in 3D look. I'm totally cool with that.

I don't mind jumps in art style, kind of like the Zelda series. I like how WW looks different from TP which looks different from SS. I think Other M has an interesting look going on. Again I'm totally psyched for the game.

 

[TreIII]

That has never been said. He has never said it's a "Gaiden" series. Show an interview during development of any of those titles where he says that.

Again, why would you think he'd say anything of that sort during that time frame? For that moment in time, "his baby" was basically taken away, and he really couldn't say much about anything otherwise. Just as much Miyamoto couldn't say much about Rare's DK games during that point in time, in spite of Donkey Kong being one of his creations.

But in any case, the interview I quoted for you in my last post does more to showcase what seemed to be the truth. Sakamoto didn't have that much say in the Prime games. What good would it do for him to lie about such a thing like that?

It's insulting because it's people's many years of hard work, that took the series back into the public's eye that he just went POO POO I don't care about you you !!! The Prime series did A LOT for the Metroid series, and the person in charge of that series should be thankful to the folks at Retro for that.

And? The likes of Shadows of The Empire, the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight/Outcast series and etc. were also the result of many years' worth of hard work, and did a lot to put its respective series' (Star Wars) back in the public's eye for their respective points in time. It's very likely to say that without those games, we probably wouldn't have the FU series as we know it currently.

Even so...you think Lucas really gives two shits about those old games that fool around with "his vision", one way or the other? Or how about IGA and CV games like Circle of the Moon? Inafune and X6-X8 (which basically amounted to how Capcom went right behind his back as he was already working on the Zero series)? Etc., etc.?

These things happen more often than you may realize.

*insert your choice of "dealwithit.gif" here*

 

[flintstryker]

Man i can't wait to play the game so i can talk about the story without looking like a fucking idiot.

 

[Hunahan]

Wow.

Who knew Metroid was such serious business.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

To be fair, the only time that "Mother Brain was built by the Chozo" and "Metroids were designed by the Chozo to eat the X" appeared were:

-In a Japan-only comic tie-in,
-And a developer mailbag Q&A on the Japanese Zero Mission site.


Flavor stuff for the nerdy fans.

I really wish this stuff had made it to Western shores. Specially an official translation of the interactive Manga. I do find it weird that Metroid seems to be a much bigger series in the US than in Japan and they get all the cool shit.

 

[Boney]

It's sad that eight year old Metroid game surpasses the graphical art style of a Metroid title in 2010.

What does art style has to do with age?

 

[Neon_Icarus]

The Prime series is a self-contained side story about the Phazon threat and Metroid Prime (aka Dark Samus). Even the Metroids themselves hardly make more than a cameo. There is no reason why it would have been included in that 'Metroid and Me' -video, since the video is clearly aimed at people who are unfamiliar with the series core story, so that they will know what happened before Other M. (this is also why Fusion doesn't appear).

Think about it. Nothing that happens in the three Prime games has any effect on what happens in Metroid 2, Super Metroid or Fusion. The storylines for those games were clearly designed so that Sakamoto would be free to develop the core story of his series in any way he wanted, once he got back to making another sequel.

If the original Prime was a part of the core series, it would have been Metroid IV. Fusion is Metroid IV.



BTW, I'm not bashing the Prime series in any way.

 

[DancingJesus]

What does art style has to do with age?

You would think the standard had been set and would only improve in years after. (Mario Galaxy)

Instead we get a largely garish world filled with muddled textures and lame enemy design. Even the suit looks better in the Prime series.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

To be fair, the only time that "Mother Brain was built by the Chozo" and "Metroids were designed by the Chozo to eat the X" appeared were:

-In a Japan-only comic tie-in,
-Stuffed into the back of Metroid Fusion's manual (there's some hint about Metroids' origins in Super's manual as well)
-And a developer mailbag Q&A on the Japanese Zero Mission site.


Flavor stuff for the nerdy fans.

Oh, you mean kinda like The Silmarillion.

Why are you so mean to me

I swear, I wasn't referring to you.

Spoiler

But if I were it would be purely out of love. <3

 

[robor]

What Other M discounts narrative/theme wise from the Prime games, it acknowledges game design wise.

 

[Poyunch]

Have you ever played Corruption?? It basically gives the origins of a certain canonical character

Yeah but Dark Samus didn't really do anything passed the Prime games.

 

[The Technomancer]

What does art style has to do with age?

If you're going for the high-detailed realistic look of the Prime games, then art style does improve with technology, as textures, models, etc get better. (okay, theres a huge semantics argument that can be had here: technicly what I mean is that realization of art style improves with technology)
However that's a moot point in this case since Other M isn't trying to emulate the Prime style. I agree with the poster above who said it was more like a saturated Super Metroid look.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

What Other M discounts narrative/theme wise from the Prime games, it acknowledges game design wise.

Too bad Metroid fans are damned to an eternity of never being able to have their cake and eat it too.

 

[_Alkaline_]

You would think the standard had been set and would only improve in years after. (Mario Galaxy)

Instead we get a largely garish world filled with muddled textures and lame enemy design.

Retro is exceptionally talented with their art-design. Few games look as good as the Prime series does.

That said, Other M looks fine. The Prime series had its fair share of 'muddled textures' too. The animation, transitions and speed of gameplay is where Other M really shines and just as Prime seriously impressed with its art-design in 2002, I find Other M's sense of flow to be virtually on the same lvel.

 

[KAL2006]

OK so it was wierd that Prime wasnt shown in that retrospective trailer, however one thing that bothered me is that they showed Metroid NES, instead of the updated remake Zero Mission. So are Zero Mission and Fusion not considered canon. Also I agree with one of the above posers who said that it's crazy that an 8 year old game (Metroid Prime) looks much better than the upcoming Metroid Other M.

 

[DancingJesus]

Retro is exceptionally talented with their art-design. Few games look as good as the Prime series does.

That said, Other M looks fine. The Prime series had its fair share of 'muddled textures' too. The animation, transitions and speed of gameplay is where Other M really shines and just as Prime seriously impressed with its art-design in 2002, I find Other M's sense of flow to be virtually on the same lvel.

Fair enough, I would agree that the animation does look superb.

Watching this retrospective has been an eye opening experience. http://www.gametrailers.com/video/part-3-the-metroid/23387

It shows what Retro accomplished with much less to work with.

 

[Kard8p3]

You would think the standard had been set and would only improve in years after. (Mario Galaxy)

Instead we get a largely garish world filled with muddled textures and lame enemy design. Even the suit looks better in the Prime series.

It's just going for a different style is all. This game is bringing the 2D metroid artstyle and enemy design into the third dimension. If you think that's a negative then fine but I'm perfectly happy with it.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

But in any case, the interview I quoted for you in my last post does more to showcase what seemed to be the truth. Sakamoto didn't have that much say in the Prime games. What good would it do for him to lie about such a thing like that?

Well he's lying about it in one of the interviews, no way we'll know which one he's lying in.

And? The likes of Shadows of The Empire, the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight/Outcast series and etc. were also the result of many years' worth of hard work, and did a lot to put its respective series' (Star Wars) back in the public's eye for their respective points in time. It's very likely to say that without those games, we probably wouldn't have the FU series as we know it currently.

Not even close. Star Wars has never left the public's eye. Tons of book series had already come out, and part of that was the inspiration for Shadows of the Empire. The two aren't even remotely similar. One series has had a constant stream of comics, books, magazines, and other media coming out. The other series had NOTHING for 8 years. Plus those were always expanded universe stories, the Prime was never hinted to be such. Plus I mean shit did you forget about the 3 Prequel movies that have come out between Shadows/DF/JK and FU? I think that had a lot to do with the FU. Oh and lets not forget the animated series on CN. Please not even remotely similar.

Even so...you think Lucas really gives two shits about those old games that fool around with "his vision", one way or the other? Or how about IGA and CV games like Circle of the Moon? Inafune and X6-X8 (which basically amounted to how Capcom went right behind his back as he was already working on the Zero series)? Etc., etc.?

These things happen more often than you may realize.

*insert your choice of "dealwithit.gif" here*

Except Lucas is dealing with Hundreds of Books/Comics/Games etc in mediums that aren't the same medium as his main story telling ones. If this was about a comic series that came out about Metroid you might have something to stand on here. We're talking about about media being released in the same media, put out by the same company, with the same person in charge.

Iga is a bit of a prick too for retroconning out Castlevania Legends. I really don't know the Mega Man stuff so I can't complain about that as well.

 

[Neon_Icarus]

What Other M discounts narrative/theme wise from the Prime games, it acknowledges game design wise.

So? The reason we are having this discussion is because of that storyline video on the official Other M site.

 

[_Alkaline_]

OK so it was wierd that Prime wasnt shown in that retrospective trailer, however one thing that bothered me is that they showed Metroid NES, instead of the updated remake Zero Mission. So are Zero Mission and Fusion not considered canon. Also I agree with one of the above posers who said that it's crazy that an 8 year old game (Metroid Prime) looks much better than the upcoming Metroid Other M.

Zero Mission is seen as a retelling of the original Metroid. It is canon. It was probably just personal choice. I feel it showcases the series' visual development over the years better.

Fusion is canon but appears after Other M. The video is designed to inform players about what has occurred up until Other M in the main storyline. Fusion isn't shown because it's chronologically after Other M.

 

[TreIII]

I really wish this stuff had made it to Western shores. Specially an official translation of the interactive Manga. I do find it weird that Metroid seems to be a much bigger series in the US than in Japan and they get all the cool shit.

Probably because they're trying to push the series on Japanese fans in a way they can relate: something with a story, with characters that they can feel a connection to.

Pretty much the only FPS of its type that actually have done reasonably well in Japan have been the likes of the Modern Warfare series. Despite being in first person, it at least had it such that there were characters to interact with, and the Japanese audience was receptive to that much.

In short, trying to "humanize" Samus is what may end up doing the most to help her cause amongst Japanese players. And frankly, I don't mind that much. If all Sakamoto wanted was a solitary figure with basically no real personality whatsoever, Samus could have just been a faceless robot/cyborg, that served as nothing more than a vessel for players to explore the world around her. But obviously, even from the first game, they went out of their way to showcase that Samus was a human female underneath that suit, and every progressive game after that did a bit more to showcase her "humanity". Other M just does more to continue what has been going on for a while, and I'm interested in seeing what Sakamoto will do, since this is his "big chance".

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Probably because they're trying to push the series on Japanese fans in a way they can relate: something with a story, with characters that they can feel a connection to.

Pretty much the only FPS of its type that actually have done reasonably well in Japan have been the likes of the Modern Warfare series. Despite being in first person, it at least had it such that there were characters to interact with, and the Japanese audience was receptive to that much.

In short, trying to "humanize" Samus is what may end up doing the most to help her cause amongst Japanese players. And frankly, I don't mind that much. If all Sakamoto wanted was a solitary figure with basically no real personality whatsoever, Samus could have just been a faceless robot/cyborg, that served as nothing more than a vessel for players to explore the world around her. But obviously, even from the first game, they went out of their way to showcase that Samus was a human female underneath that suit, and every progressive game after that did a bit more to showcase her "humanity". Other M just does more to continue what has been going on for a while, and I'm interested in seeing what Sakamoto will do, since this is his "big chance".

That's cool and all, I still want it to come out here though. Metroid is by far my favorite video game series of all time, sorry if I get a little passionate about some aspects of it. No hard feelings.

I'm also cool with there being more story, I enjoy story. I just wish the dialog was a bit better from what we've seen so far.

 

[Beth Cyra]

That's cool and all, I still want it to come out here though. Metroid is by far my favorite video game series of all time, sorry if I get a little passionate about some aspects of it. No hard feelings.

I'm also cool with there being more story, I enjoy story. I just wish the dialog was a bit better from what we've seen so far.

Well I still don't think it is that bad, really decent to good considering alot of games that go from Japanese to English.

And at least they are tyring to make it so Samus is different, I am just glad she isn't all cool and normal, that is why I think the problems with her speech as well as her own fasication with the child relationship she had with the Baby Metroid are getting focus.

 

[DancingJesus]

2002:

2010:

Just saying....

Which one looks better to you? Honestly? Feel free to provide better screenshots, just a quick glimpse to grab a shot of the suit.

I admire what Team Ninja was able to accomplish with their animation. But they have a long ways to go to catch up to Retro.

 

[Kard8p3]

2002:

2010:

Just saying....

Which one looks better to you? Honestly? Feel free to provide better screenshots, just a quick glimpse to grab a shot of the suit.

I admire what Team Ninja was able to accomplish with their animation. But they have a long ways to go to catch up to Retro.

Honestly seeing them together I actually like the one from Other M a bit more but seeing them side by side also makes it obvious how different the artstyles are.

 

[Boney]

I swear, I wasn't referring to you.

Spoiler

But if I were it would be purely out of love. <3

<3

 

[DancingJesus]

Honestly seeing them together I actually like the one from Other M a bit more.

Alrighty, that's fine then. You're entitled to that.

 

[Beth Cyra]

The screen shot looks better, wouldn't try to say other wise, but I would still take Other M because I don't play games for screen shots and when Samus is moving and blasting enemies not to mention things like Shine Spark, it really looks better then any single screen from Prime.

 

[Instro]

2002:

2010:

Just saying....

Which one looks better to you? Honestly? Feel free to provide better screenshots, just a quick glimpse to grab a shot of the suit.

I admire what Team Ninja was able to accomplish with their animation. But they have a long ways to go to catch up to Retro.

I like the Other M one better. Maybe because its closer to what the suit in the 2D titles looks like or something.

And technically your comparing the varia suit to the power suit. The power suit in Prime was ugly as fuck.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

2002:
http://i35.tinypic.com/34glmcp.png
2010:
http://i35.tinypic.com/24nqp0i.png

Just saying....

Which one looks better to you? Honestly? Feel free to provide better screenshots, just a quick glimpse to grab a shot of the suit.

I admire what Team Ninja was able to accomplish with their animation. But they have a long ways to go to catch up to Retro.

I can appreciate both. While I do like Retro's style more, I still like what Team Ninja/Nintendo have done with Other M. They're just both really very different styles. I think that screen shot you posted really shows how much Other M is basically (in art style) trying to be Super Metroid in 3D. Where as Retro was going for this, ok if all this stuff was real how would it look, and how would it work, and how would it all fit together. It's a different way of approaching the same world.

On a technical level I will give you that, I think the current Team Ninja could learn a thing or two from Retro in how to use the hardware. Specially in handling textures and polygon counts for the environment.

 

[KAL2006]

It's just going for a different style is all. This game is bringing the 2D metroid artstyle and enemy design into the third dimension. If you think that's a negative then fine but I'm perfectly happy with it.

For me the enviroment in Other M look empty and souless, also the technical graphics have not improved at all, a lot of polygons seem blocky, and there are muddy textures, Prime looks better because the enviroments are more detailed and the world looks organic. Also I know Other M is trying to be Supr Metroid 3D in art style compared to Prime, but I think it is wierd, Super Metroid looks much better, as does Prime. It's crazy that we are even comparing the two as one came out 8 years ago in comparison to one thats coming this year. Oh well graphics are not everything as long as it is a good game, at least we dont have to compare between the graphics of Galaxy and Sunshine as everyone knows Galaxy is clearly superior, that is all I wanted, Other M to be clearly superior.

 

[_Alkaline_]

Looking at those images highlights how different the suit design in between the Prime series and Other M.

The Other M suit design is more faithful to Samus' Super Metroid design though, both in colours and structure.

 

[Beth Cyra]

For me the enviroment in Other M look empty and souless, also the technical graphics have not improved at all, a lot of polygons seem blocky, and there are muddy textures, Prime looks better because the enviroments are more detailed and the world looks organic. Also I know Other M is trying to be Supr Metroid 3D in art style compared to Prime, but I think it is wierd, Super Metroid looks much better, as does Prime. It's crazy that we are even comparing the two as one came out 8 years ago in comparison to one thats coming this year. Oh well graphics are not everything as long as it is a good game, at least we dont have to compare between the graphics of Galaxy and Sunshine as everyone knows Galaxy is clearly superior, that is all I wanted, Other M to be clearly superior.

Did you not see the water between Sunshine and Galaxy? I actually thought they did far better in Sunshie then G1/2 so I don't agree one is clearly superior to the other.

 

[Poyunch]

Personally I like the Other M suit better. It's technically better and tastes in art style would be the only way I could see people liking the Prime suit more. Anyway I really like Other M's vibrant style but from the Prime series I'd say Echoes had the best look in general.

 

[_Alkaline_]

For me the enviroment in Other M look empty and souless, also the technical graphics have not improved at all, a lot of polygons seem blocky, and there are muddy textures, Prime looks better because the enviroments are more detailed and the world looks organic. Also I know Other M is trying to be Supr Metroid 3D in art style compared to Prime, but I think it is wierd, Super Metroid looks much better, as does Prime. It's crazy that we are even comparing the two as one came out 8 years ago in comparison to one thats coming this year. Oh well graphics are not everything as long as it is a good game, at least we dont have to compare between the graphics of Galaxy and Sunshine as everyone knows Galaxy is clearly superior, that is all I wanted, Other M to be clearly superior.

You have to remember that Sunshine looked just 'okay' for a Gamecube game, with the exception of its outstanding water effects, whilst Prime and Echoes were among the absolute best visual experiences on the same system. There was much greater room for Galaxy to improve on Sunshine's visuals.

You're expecting a huge upgrade when you have to consider that (1) the Wii isn't much stronger than the Gamecube and (2) Retro's artistry is almost unparalled in the industry.

I also don't understand your 'souless' comment, considering the vast range of interesting areas that have been shown, but hey that's your opinion. Some areas shown don't look as aethetically pleasing as others, but that's just par for the course really. Even the Prime series had its rough moments:

 

[Beth Cyra]

Personally I like the Other M suit better. It's technically better and tastes in art style would be the only way I could see people liking the Prime suit more. Anyway I really like Other M's vibrant style but from the Prime series I'd say Echoes had the best look in general.

This is something I don't think gets pointed out enough. Alot of people don't seem to think there was a jump between Prime 1 and 2, and while I disagree it is the best (Full A, PDE suit <3) the Viara suit really does look amazing and so much better going from Prime 1 -> 2.

 

[DancingJesus]

Looking at those images highlights how different the suit design in between the Prime series and Other M.

The Other M suit design is more faithful to Samus' Super Metroid design though, both in colours and structure.

God forbid they used their brain and created a visually compelling new suit for a new generation of Metroid.

Some may call it playing to nostalgia, I call it laziness. But hey, just my opinion.

 

[Boney]

God forbid they used their brain and created a visually compelling new suit for a new generation of Metroid.

yet you bitch they aren't using the exact same formula as Super?

 

[Beth Cyra]

God forbid they used their brain and created a visually compelling new suit for a new generation of Metroid.

Some may call it playing to nostalgia, I call it laziness. But hey, just my opinion.

They did, people didn't like that (be it the P.E.D or Fusion.)

 

[_Alkaline_]

God forbid they used their brain and created a visually compelling new suit for a new generation of Metroid.

Some may call it playing to nostalgia, I call it laziness. But hey, just my opinion.

Ah yes, the nostalgia card. I was waiting for that one.

 

[DancingJesus]

yet you bitch they aren't using the exact same formula as Super?

Artstyle and gameplay are two completely separate things.

 

[Datschge]

Well he's lying about it in one of the interviews, no way we'll know which one he's lying in.

Maybe he just told the truth in both, and my previous explanation (him being indirectly involved) is true as well? Note that the interview were PR events (like all are) so he had to put what he did in a positive light. That he wasn't as hand on with the Prime games as he'd be with his own games wasn't good PR back then so you can gather that only between the lines and in the staff listing. This time the game is a different approach and he's more involved so he can both tell more details about the project as well as be more open about his previous involvements (á la "only so little, and now so much!", it's all PR after all).