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New Nintendo PR: Star Fox reconfirmed for April, amiibo release dates and details

there is no indication that Federation Force is of any low quality, whatever you think of the (spinoff's) art and gameplay direction.

When people decide that a game is high quality, it's usually on the metric of "does this game meet my expectations?" not "was this game polished enough?"

Almost every Nintendo game has an absurd level of polish. It'd be disingenuous to say that this means they're all of absurd quality, though.
 

Nerrel

Member
Wait, the gyro for the controls isn't optional?

I think it is, but the alternative is using dual sticks for separate aiming and piloting, which fucking sucks. At least, in comparison to either the remote+nunchuk or the analog stick+gyro. I tried the CCPro scheme on S&P2 just to see how it worked and it really required heavy lock on/ aim assist to be anywhere near as effective as the default remote scheme.

Something about performing two completely separate kinds of movement on two analogs at once just doesn't work. It's like rubbing your stomach and patting your head. I don't know why using one analog and one IR camera is so much simpler and more natural, but it is. Gyro aiming is somewhere in between, but much closer to IR aiming.

It looks like Nintendo created a problem where there was none before. Star Fox's issues in the past have been one content and level design. Controls were never a problem. Yet instead of addressing what should have been addressed going by the footage they have released they decided to possibly screw up the one thing they did well with the series.

There's a huge amount of room for improvement in the controls in that separate aiming and flying can really open up the gameplay and allow for different level designs/ enemy placements. In classic Starfox, you can only shoot in the direction you're piloting, which means that you're unable to engage enemies while flying through a difficult gauntlet of obstacles (or vice versa).

Again, Sin and Punishment 2 is the holy grail for what can be done with Starfox's controls. It offered separate aiming and movement in a way that felt natural and genuinely fun to use. Nintendo wasn't wrong to try to change Starfox's controls, they were wrong for prioritizing gamepad usage over the actual quality of the controls themselves.

Personally, I'd have nixed the cockpit view altogether, or at the very least eliminated it as an always-on feature of the GamePad, so people realize "oh, it's something that's useful in certain situations, but I'm not being pressured to use it."

The cockpit view was never really useful in SF64. Here, it's slightly different as the free aim makes it more problematic to target things at different depths without occasionally hitting obstacles without understanding that they're in the way. A first person view can clarify the exact trajectory you're firing on to help you avoid that issue. I think simply toggling it on with a button could have been a nice addition to the game, and presumably that wouldn't have required the hit of rendering two game views at once. It would have even been possible to to this on the remote+nunchuk, thereby rendering the gamepad completely obsolete. But that wouldn't utilize the second screen in any way, and considering that's Wii U's big feature...

I seriously doubt the GamePad has anything to do with the graphics. That'll be a result of this game being a resurrection of a back-burner-ed Wii game.
The game has to render two views at once, one at 720p 60fps, one at 480p 60fps- and that's not the same 480p as the Wii since it's in a 16:9 ratio. That's a huge strain on the system. Usually, the gamepad only displays 2D interfaces like a map or inventory screen. Wonderful 101 is the only other game I can think of that actually had realtime 3D visuals on both screens at once. I'm pretty sure the impact is at least comparable to rendering one screen at 1080p/60fps.
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
I seriously doubt the GamePad has anything to do with the graphics. That'll be a result of this game being a resurrection of a back-burner-ed Wii game.

It absolutely does. Having to render a separate viewpoint on the GamePad takes away resources from what's being rendered on the TV.



Wonderful 101 is one of the only other games I can think of that actually had realtime 3D visuals on both screens at once. I'm pretty sure the impact is at least comparable to rendering one screen at 1080p/60fps.

Kirby and the Rainbow Curse

Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker

Super Mario Maker
 

maxcriden

Member
When people decide that a game is high quality, it's usually on the metric of "does this game meet my expectations?" not "was this game polished enough?"

Almost every Nintendo game has an absurd level of polish. It'd be disingenuous to say that this means they're all of absurd quality, though.

That's absolutely true. You won't hear any argument from me there. But NLG is known for making quality games. So it seems unfair to equate the game to low game quality as many have.
 
2) there is no indication that Federation Force is of any low quality, whatever you think of the (spinoff's) art and gameplay direction.

200.gif
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I seriously doubt the GamePad has anything to do with the graphics. That'll be a result of this game being a resurrection of a back-burner-ed Wii game.

This the usual excuse when it comes to why Star Fox Zero looks worse than any other 1st party game on Wii U, including those who do render on both screens.
 

Ridley327

Member
I strongly suspect Federation Force has gone through a significant visual overhaul since its debut to make it more realistically proportioned. I really believe that if it had been like that in the first place, you wouldn't even get half of the blowback for the game.

In any event, the chibi art style was a potentially catastrophic decision that did make me question Tanabe's judgment.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd


It is not the metroid we wanted. But is a next level games game with single Player, multiplayer both off and online, possibly voce chat, a good polygonal level for being a multiplayer 3ds game.

I probably will not like it that much but having already decided that the game will such reminded me of this very star Fox zero stigma.

It will not be a good metroid game, but that is another topic imho

Prova my point of view is influenced by my review hobby.
 

fernoca

Member
Plus February is "Pokemon month" so the focus is on that.

March is "Zelda month" with both Twilight Princess and Hyrule Warriors.

So any "hype" around Starfox Zero mught be mid to late March, leading to the April release. They might talk or show the game a bit earlier but when it comes to advertising, 2 to 4 weeks before release is normal and not indicative on the quality of anything.

Of course the hyperboles and death talk will continue. When it's how the franchices has been since always. The N64 had no Metroid game, Starfox got all sidegames on Gamecube and nothing on Wii, Kid Icarus was dormant for nearly 2 decades. And even when the games were coming noone was buying them. People had no problems ignoring F-Zero GX but they sure blame Nintendo for not making more. :p
 
I strongly suspect Federation Force has gone through a significant visual overhaul since its debut to make it more realistically proportioned. I really believe that if it had been like that in the first place, you wouldn't even get half of the blowback for the game.



Of course. The problem with this game always was the atmosphere and art. Not because it's a spin-off. Sure some people would still be unhappy to only get a spin-off after all these years, but it wouldn't be as harsh. Even Metroid Prime Pinball had at least the correct mood.
 
Wonderful 101 is the only other game I can think of that actually had realtime 3D visuals on both screens at once.

Nintendo Land had six different games that did this (the multiplayer ones), IIRC all at 60 fps. More than half of them also featured 3-4 player split screen on the TV.

Sure, it had a simple art style, but I don't think anyone ever complained about its texture work.
 
I think it is, but the alternative is using dual sticks for separate aiming and piloting, which fucking sucks. At least, in comparison to either the remote+nunchuk or the analog stick+gyro.

Huh? That's not how it worked at E3. The stick controls work just like how they have in past games, where ship movement and cursor movement are locked together. You can see that here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE-KBEr2ufc

You can also see it in the latest Nintendo Direct.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Nintendo Land had six different games that did this (the multiplayer ones), IIRC all at 60 fps. More than half of them also featured 3-4 player split screen on the TV.

Sure, it had a simple art style, but I don't think anyone ever complained about its texture work.

One or two of them dropped the TV to 30fps if you maxed out the player count.
 

jariw

Member
Isnt it more telling that they're promoting Twilight Princess HD way more than Star Fox even though they're only a few months apart?

Maybe once TP HD is out they'll start releasing more media. I don't know, just seems weird they've been in complete media silence about the game.

FWIW, a month ago, Twilight Princess didn't have a release date. And everyone was saying what absolute crap job Tantalus had made with the HD remake. Every was going to cancel their TP:HD preorders. And so on.

Without any Nintendo Directs, Nintendo sites focus on the the rumor centrals instead.
 

Orgen

Member

Nerrel

Member
Huh? That's not how it worked at E3. The stick controls work just like how they have in past games, where ship movement and cursor movement are locked together. You can see that here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE-KBEr2ufc

You can also see it in the latest Nintendo Direct.

Ah, I didn't know that. That'll be more comfortable to use, but I wonder how the game will actually play since it's been designed around free aim. For instance, how will that Corneria boss work?
 
Ah, I didn't know that. That'll be more comfortable to use, but I wonder how the game will actually play since it's been designed around free aim. For instance, how will that Corneria boss work?

The same way it would have in past games. In this case, you'd look at the GamePad and just aim with the control stick like in past games. I'm pretty sure there's videos from E3 of people beating that boss without motion controls
 

Nerrel

Member
The same way it would have in past games. In this case, you'd look at the GamePad and just aim with the control stick like in past games. I'm pretty sure there's videos from E3 of people beating that boss without motion controls

With your ship just flying around aimlessly? Or does it go on autopilot? Because it looked like the players were definitely still flying and dodging while circling the target when the default controls were used.
 

Dash Kappei

Not actually that important
What QA? The one that allowed Smash Tennis and Amibo Festival Party be released?

Damn, why? What happened with those two?
I don't have either so I'm not aware of their supposed QA troubles, could you elaborate?
And if they were broken at launch, have they been fixed now?
 
With your ship just flying around aimlessly? Or does it go on autopilot? Because it looked like the players were definitely still flying and dodging while circling the target when the default controls were used.

You still have full control of your ship against that boss, but it's really hard to fly reliably without using the cockpit view because of the way the camera is fixed.

Also, don't conflate the perspective with the controls. The perspective is actually a totally independent thing from the controls. The game controls the same way regardless of which viewpoint you're using.
 

Trevelyan

Banned
Damn, why? What happened with those two?
I don't have either so I'm not aware of their supposed QA troubles, could you elaborate?
And if they were broken at launch, have they been fixed now?

He doesn't know what he's talking about. QA will only measure if a game is playable, not if its good.

Neither Mario Tennis or Amiibo Festival were broken in any way. Lacking tons of content, absolutely. But the core gameplay of each is fine and the controls don't get in your way of enjoying the game.
 

fernoca

Member
Yep. For all intents and purposes Mario Tennis and amiibo Festival work as intended. Heck what is there is polished and without any problems, save corruption, bugs or glitches. QA has nothing to do with lack of content or what the games ended been.
 
With your ship just flying around aimlessly? Or does it go on autopilot? Because it looked like the players were definitely still flying and dodging while circling the target when the default controls were used.

Someone else already covered it, but you still have full control of your ship in those segments--it's only the camera angle that changes on the TV.
 

PtM

Banned
Yeah, I'm not disagreeing that this game is in a far from ideal state, even if I could play it without any issues myself.

But at the same time, I'm happy to point out any misconceptions people have about how the controls are actually designed to work, since I was able to use them pretty successfully.



No.

It controls like a Star Fox game, but you can aim the reticle anywhere you want independent of the control stick using gyro.
You know, the worst part of this all is SF0 will go backwards to the Wii days and handhold you through the game, and once you've got the hang of it, the game will be piss-easy.
 
Man, that's pretty dope! Same with the statuette, as far as statues go... has there been any word on this stuff being available in the States?
 
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