They sure have a history of saying that their games were incomplete and unpolished because of lack of time and/or ressources though, no?
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New Obsidian countdown teaser [Update 2: Kickstarter? One more day!]
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They sure have a history of saying that their games were incomplete and unpolished because of lack of time and/or ressources though, no?
A better stretch goal would be to include mod tools.
To be fair, he said "if". His approach to Kickstarters in general is valid and healthy imo. Not every can be an Obsidian fanboy. If there were no more Fallout 3 vs Fallout: New Vegas threads, what would we have left to do?
whalleywhat
Member
Seems likely.
Probably because it's true~
I will kickstart the crap out of you, Sawyer.
I guess if Avellone ever gets a Kickstarter project, it'll come later on (when he's done with Wasteland 2).
Personally, I'd be up for Obsidian focusing solely on Kickstarter. Not sure it'd be completely viable, but it should work for smaller teams. They've been burned enough by publishers.
Make it turn-based, Sawyer!
I guess if Avellone ever gets a Kickstarter project, it'll come later on (when he's done with Wasteland 2).
Personally, I'd be up for Obsidian focusing solely on Kickstarter. Not sure it'd be completely viable, but it should work for smaller teams. They've been burned enough by publishers.
Make it turn-based, Sawyer!
They dont comment on that. Their fans do. And with some games its a legitimate complaint. Also the publishers are the ones usually responsible for QA.
Because that's a fact. Blaming implies shirking away from taking responsibility. They never did that.
Yes and I'm responding to that if case. And I don't see how your question at the end is relevant.
I'm not really denying that
. My point was that time and ressources are granted by the publisher in the first place. DS3 is probably the only one where they didn't blame their publisher or the lack of ressources. I'm not saying their games are bad, far from that and I really love New Vegas and NWN2 but they sure have a habit of doing this.I'm not really denying that
What are they supposed to do when the press and gamers love to continually slam them for the deficiencies in their games that are not the fault of their own? State the facts or what?
The portion you bolded makes it sound you were asking him where he'd get the notion that something would be blamed if it went to crap. Which is strange. I'm sure they would blame something, probably not publicly.
Just saying that if everyone was an Obsidian fanboy, there'd be no more F3 vs FNV threads, which would make me sad. It is relevant because anyone who says "I will wait and see how the game turns out before paying for it" clearly isn't an Obsidian fanboy.
Hey, don't you know Obsidian games are buggy pieces of shit?
It's not like greater complexity introduces a potential for bugs that's an order of magnitude greater than in "follow the arrow and press A to look at inetresting thing."
The janitor idea was amazing. I honestly would love to play that.
The quote sort of sounds like a janitor who hasn't come to terms with the fact that things keep getting dirty after he cleans them. One day he wakes up and comes to terms with this.
This is the janitor idea I had, btw http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=35031589&postcount=272
Why do you think they'll resort to blaming? Did they blame anyone for Alpha Protocol? Avellone readily acknowledges the shortcomings. I expect they'd do some sort of post-mortem however the game turns out.
Well yeah, but I wasn't even disputing his opinion that Obsidian games are poor (because, well, opinion) or his stance to wait and see.
Yep, I expect they will figure out what was to blame.
IF, man, IF! Now go iron your panties.
Trying to make sure they are not caught with the same issues with their next game would be a good start?I think they pulled it off fairly well with DS3 and everyone were really surprised by how polished it was compared to their past releases.
It sure gets harder and harder to defend that position multiple times and that is probably why someone brought it up in the thread. I'm not saying they were in the wrong nor do I know the details of each project they've worked on but you have to wonder why they've let the same thing happen so many time.
They've reversed that tendency with DS3 and hopefully they can keep it up with South Park and this new project.
Yeah, I know it's IF. My question was for the IF.
Like I said on other occasions, it's mostly to do with lack of IP ownership and lack of an in-house engine.
Yes, and that's different from figuring out who to blame, which was what I originally responded to.
I don't think DS3 was a good game though but hopefully the next games they release will be better, I just don't have a ton of faith in Obsidian kickstarter or no kickstarter.
New blog entry from Sawyer re Black Hound: http://twofoldsilence.diogenes-lamp.info/2012/09/the-black-hound-what-its-deal-was.html
Guess that rules out this project being Black Hound?
Sentenza
Member
That's how I read it, too.
It sounds pretty much "Let's take this excuse to talk about something that is totally unrelated to our secret announce".
I kind of hope it's a Kickstarter, because a lot of Kickstarters have come and gone, and I just haven't had any money to support the few that have gotten me really excited. But... I'm finally in a position to support one, and it'd be great if I could support Obsidian.
But it sounds like the ideas--that idea that fantasy takes some things too seriously and other things not seriously enough--may very well be a big element of this. I think he used excitement for The Black Hound to express the philosophy behind this thing.
But it sounds like the ideas--that idea that fantasy takes some things too seriously and other things not seriously enough--may very well be a big element of this. I think he used excitement for The Black Hound to express the philosophy behind this thing.
Brad Grenz
Member
I hope it's not a Kickstarter, if only because I'll feel compelled to contribute even though I think they're dangerous to the industry.
Dangerous to the industry? Lol, won't we spare a thought for the POOR BIG PUBLISHERS? Lol.
Brad Grenz
Member
It doesn't have anything to do with big publishers.
Yes, Kickstarter games clearly have nothing to do with big publishers, or they wouldn't be on Kickstarter!
That's a fantastic post. As I said before, people should just stop obssessing over something like setting. It's probably fantasy, but that doesn't mean anything really. People forget that fantasy is pretty much a ticket to anything you goddamn want, when you establish you've got magic, you can just do whatever crazy thing you want to do. In capable hands, even the most generic fantasy (like Forgotten Realms) can be a rich and interesting world.
Other, more unconventional, settings are obviously fine, but usually they fall into the trap of setting wank, taking the setting too seriously and it all ends up feeling shallow. I'd actually be content with it just being a unique take on fantasy, rather than a shallow world made of stuff the internet thinks are cool like steam-punk or another post apocalliptic setting.
OH MY GOD
As i said earlier Obsidian right now a studio with most powerful nostalgia syndrome for RPG fans out there.
If Wasteland 2 made almost 3 mln with Obsidian heritage they could reach new record.
I will be in 7 heaven if they release this kickstarter made bazilions of money and establish Obsidian with quality RPG for the future.
As i said earlier Obsidian right now a studio with most powerful nostalgia syndrome for RPG fans out there.
If Wasteland 2 made almost 3 mln with Obsidian heritage they could reach new record.
I will be in 7 heaven if they release this kickstarter made bazilions of money and establish Obsidian with quality RPG for the future.
Brad Grenz
Member
Why did you bring them up, then?
I also hope that Obsidian has improved upon their art style or hired better concept artists for this particular game. Their art direction in their current-gen games have been pretty subpar and bland, e.g. Dungeon Siege 3, Alpha Protocol, Fallout: New Vegas. Especially Alpha Protocol is a pretty big eye-sore to look at.
whalleywhat
Member
Sounds like the older Thayans were true to the game.
I think their environmental art and background modeling is pretty good. Lots of pretty and unique areas in all their games. The characters are where things tend to go wrong because their animators and character modelers seem to not be up to the task of making convincing and attractive looking people in a full 3D game.
Maybe it'll be better if they just scaled it back and used a top down camera, and the 2D character portraits for art.
Some people repeatedly claim this, and I've never even heard a halfway decent argument as to why it would be the case. Can you provide one?
I thought DS3 was quite pretty. Including the environment art, characters and effects.
Which is more important ? Developers which can sustain themselfs making games or publishers holding IPs and changing developers how they want (meaning sometimes destruction of whole teams like RARE, Looking Glass, Psygnosis recently).
If there would be kickstarter few years back we could be playing expansion to Arcanum 2 and probably this year there would be Bloodlines 2.
Publishers are funding and promoting games nothing more. Devs create them.
This mean also game can be created how developers want not how publisher want it. Also it means that game can be released in better shape than standard version because there is no strict release date.
Most of problems with games (bugs, errors, glitches) comes from lack of time and publisher nature.
For example Fallout New Vegas was rushed by publisher so Obsidian could't squash all bugs. Obsidian got fallout and publisher got away.
Arcanum had same problems. Real time combat was added lare in dev cycle because publisher wanted it. They didn't have time to balance game more and squash bugs because they needed to create new gameplay system (which was broken btw).
When publishers were directed by devs and gamers themselfs we had ton of new Ips but there was big change in industry. There are mainly people who don't play games at all and they want focus test games for everything.
Brad Grenz
Member
I'm not angry about anything,
I just worry that the gold rush mentality surrounding Kickstarter, the literal investment of "fans" in games no one has ever played and the manipulations of the site by importers who are literally using it to flip preexisting products at a huge mark up will eventually lead to some epic, studio-destroying, backer-chilling scandals and melt downs.
And generally, as a rule, I don't like to spend money on things I won't get for 18 months of an unverifiable quality.
I just worry that the gold rush mentality surrounding Kickstarter, the literal investment of "fans" in games no one has ever played and the manipulations of the site by importers who are literally using it to flip preexisting products at a huge mark up will eventually lead to some epic, studio-destroying, backer-chilling scandals and melt downs.
And generally, as a rule, I don't like to spend money on things I won't get for 18 months of an unverifiable quality.
I never found Obs' games to be really interesting in the visuals department (they did some pretty cool things with New Vegas and its DLC tho), they're usually just competent, or at least they don't look worse than the games they succeed. I always thought Alpha Protocol looks quite alright, though, full of color and with cool character designs and some locations were pretty alright (others were shit though). Sure, the animations are clunky, but so are Dragon Age's and Mass Effect's, though admittedly less so.
A lot of devs are playing the indie card to get money off Kickstarter, yeah, but there's no sign whatsoever that this will end up in disaster.
How is it any different from any other preorder? FTL is, I think, the first of the games batch to be released, but Kickstarter has worked for a huge number of other equally abimitious things (the Nuka Cola series, for instance).
A lot of devs are playing the indie card to get money off Kickstarter, yeah, but there's no sign whatsoever that this will end up in disaster.
Sounds like a bunch of hot air and chicken little shit to me. Anyone who has done proper research on Kickstarter will know that it's a load of rubbish. There are bad eggs in any given system, and everything in life has "risk" involved.
As far as not spending money ahead of getting a product, that's totally fair. No one is forced to support something they don't believe in. People can still buy these products when they are eventually released.
That's fine, but others clearly do. I also think it's likely we'll see some Kickstarters 'fail' in the sense of end product vs. fan expectations, but I don't think those will ruin Kickstarter altogether. People will just become more wary as the hype dies down.
maquiladora
Member
Kickstarter
There goes my dreams of this being an RPG for next gen consoles.
There goes my dreams of this being an RPG for next gen consoles.
Kickstarter
There goes my dreams of this being an RPG for next gen consoles.
Obsidian was making one. It got canned. They almost died as a result.
AHA-Lambda
Member
How is this any different from many of emerging trends in gaming lately like mobile, social, F2P or even AAA to some extent?
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