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[xochipiltontli]

It just had an overhaul?

They do balance the stats and Pokémon aren't as unviable as you think. Look at Arcanine. All of a sudden it's the most used Pokémon in VGC. However, having a "true" balance of Pokémon stats is not viable and would kill everything

I actually used Arcanine back in X/Y when I was into competitive for a bit, along with other less popular Pokemon. That's pretty cool to hear. I'm also aware that some stats were updated in X/Y and in S/M, perhaps I should have included a "more". I'm not saying that the game is some horrible unbalanced mess, I just think that there's still room for improvement.

 

[Sauce Marlow]

I've been playing since 1998, while you were sucking on your momma's teet. Gimme my dolphin. Kyogre doesn't count, that's a big ass orca. I don't care if it's the same family. So are raccoons and bears. Tapu Fini doesn't count, she is an imposter dolphin. Lanturn's an angler fish.

I actually didn't mean to quote your post lmao. Didn't pick up that it was there while I was typing my post out. My bad!

 

[Deleted member 231381]

VGC 2017 restricts you to Alolan Pokedex Pokemon. Arcanine would not see use if the entire menagerie of Pokemon were available; he is one of a relatively limited number of Pokemon that have access to Intimidate in that specific format. It's not rebalancing when you're talking about a format in which over 500 Pokemon are not available.

 

[Boss Doggie]

See this is why I made that other thread because there are people convinced here that think the competitive side is apparently "minor".

 

[Neoxon]

Considering how many people are into it, the QoL stuff they do to further accommodate it, and if course, the tournaments they run, I could just as easily say that people downplay the competitive scene's importance because they personally want something new and don't consider how weird it'd be to just change everything for no reason.

People wanting a more immersive game and what not in terms of the world, exploration, etc., I can get behind that. It may not be feasible in the timeframe Pokemon games normally come out, but I would never actually be against them improving in that regard. But as for the battle system, yea, I disagree wholly with any drastic changes. Leave that for the spinoffs.

Finally, someone who gets it. Game Freak can expand on the exploration all they want, but it wouldn't be wise to do any major changes to the combat of the mainline games. Entirely different concepts for the combat of Pokémon games has been what the spin-offs were for, there's no need to do anything drastic in the mainline games.

That's not a negative by it's self. I mean, I loved OoT and all the Zelda games that would try to be "OoT but better" ... I would normally just suggest modest changes just like many here are doing but over all I just expected the same-ol formula but prettier. I didn't know I'd want something like BoTW until Nintendo had the balls to do something big and new with the series and now I can't imagine wanting new console Zeldas that go back to the OoT formula.

Which is kinda the point. Many people love it the way it is now but are interested in seeing it change after seeing how things are shaping up for Zelda and Mario.

But even with how Zelda & Mario changed, their basic combat/gameplay style remained largely the same as previous entries. And keep in mind, neither Zelda or Mario have large esports circuits like Pokémon does. Changing Pokémon into something like Divinity would still be a drastic change from what the mainline Pokémon games have traditionally done, & (as mentioned earlier) would be better used for a spin-off than a mainline entry. There are ways to keep both the casuals & the competitive sides of the consumer base happy, hence why I suggested to try & expand the exploration and story aspects of the game while keeping the current turn-based combat style largely the same.

 

[mebizzle]

VGC 2017 restricts you to Alolan Pokedex Pokemon. Arcanine would not see use if the entire menagerie of Pokemon were available; he is one of a relatively limited number of Pokemon that have access to Intimidate in that specific format. It's not rebalancing when you're talking about a format in which over 500 Pokemon are not available.

That in itself is a method of balance though, similar to how the Magic and Pokemon standard card game formats work. Cards come in and out of the format as time goes on, its much easier to create a balanced format around 300 than 800.

 

[Neoxon]

VGC 2017 restricts you to Alolan Pokedex Pokemon. Arcanine would not see use if the entire menagerie of Pokemon were available; he is one of a relatively limited number of Pokemon that have access to Intimidate in that specific format. It's not rebalancing when you're talking about a format in which over 500 Pokemon are not available.

If I recall, wasn't this because of the Pokémon Bank not being readily available at the launch of Sun/Moon? Seeing as we can now use the Bank to transfer our old Pokémon to Gen 7, I'd imagine that the National Dex will be fair game afterwards (assuming that we don't get Gen 8 until 2019).

 

[Pif]

You guys think it will bank on the joycon neon bundle colors and be another red/blue centered game?

 

[Reivaxe]

See this is why I made that other thread because there are people convinced here that think the competitive side is apparently "minor".

If you're referring to me ...
1- I never said it as "minor". I said that Nintendo sees it and plays to it but it's not the driving force to the sales of Pokemon nor do most of the 16mil+ players of recent Pokemon games care about it enough to warrant never changing the combat in any interesting way outta fear of disrupting the "competitive Status Quo".

Do you think it's the driving force behind the series or something? Finally ..

2- I'm 100% sure any change to the battle system will lead to a competitive scene. Is the old established "simple to understand but has a ton of hidden depth cause you're dealing with 100s of possible variables" system what lead to competitive play? Yes.
Would making another "simple to understand but has a ton of hidden depth cause you're dealing with 100s of possible variables" system not have a competitive scene because it's different? I have a feeling anyone interested in competitive will just follow the changes if they enjoy the new system ... so ultimately it doesn't matter when talking about changing things and shouldn't be held as some reason to stick to the same formula.
I don't think main line pokemon will ever be a game designed AROUND being a competitive esport.

But even with how Zelda & Mario changed, their basic combat/gameplay style remained largely the same as previous entries. And keep in mind, neither Zelda or Mario have large esports circuits like Pokémon does. Changing Pokémon into something like Divinity would still be a drastic change from what the mainline Pokémon games have traditionally done, & (as mentioned earlier) would be better used for a spin-off than a mainline entry. There are ways to keep both the casuals & the competitive sides of the consumer base happy, hence why I suggested to try & expand the exploration and story aspects of the game while keeping the current turn-based combat style largely the same.

Zelda and Mario have never been games largely focused on combat (And Zelda's combat has actually changed a TON over the past 20+ years ...). For many main line Pokemon games the only way to even interact with them has been through battles which makes it a much more noticeable element.

But this is all kinda a side note, my only real argument here was for a "BoTW Pokemon" and why it's not some meme to be mocked.

"Anyway, to me BOTW Pokemon means ...
-A beautiful, Large, immersive, explorable world that feels like it's covered in life.
-More of an open world that allows you to go where you want. Trainers and wild Pokemon too strong in this area? Go somewhere else or make it work for you. Catch a stronger Pokemon that can carry your team through this area or go the safe route, it's up to you.
-A world where Pokemon are more than just battle images. A world where you can see Pokemon living their lives in the wild, interacting with each other and you can interact with them in ways other than just battle.

That's the main bullet points of what I would call a "BOTW Pokemon". I don't know what's memey about that. Seems like a reasonable step up."


I've noticed that many people replying to me are just fine with the concept of making the games more open world, more immersive, filling it with Pokemon wild life and changing up things and so on.
Would I personally love a Divinity style combat system and think it's the natural next step to the series combat? Yeah, I also offered it up as something that would work for people who want the anime's battle system in the games while still keeping it turn based. Do I think GF and Nintendo are fully willing and capable of doing something different with the combat system? Yup, Pokemon isn't designed around the limits of it's current competitive scene, it's not designed to be an Esport and it's competitive scene will just follow it for the most part.

But don't confuse that with my points for a Pokemon BoTW. I feel like I've successfully gotten that idea across

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

Finally, someone who gets it. Game Freak can expand on the exploration all they want, but it wouldn't be wise to do any major changes to the combat of the mainline games. Entirely different concepts for the combat of Pokémon games has been what the spin-offs were for, there's no need to do anything drastic in the mainline games.


But even with how Zelda & Mario changed, their basic combat/gameplay style remained largely the same as previous entries. And keep in mind, neither Zelda or Mario have large esports circuits like Pokémon does. Changing Pokémon into something like Divinity would still be a drastic change from what the mainline Pokémon games have traditionally done, & (as mentioned earlier) would be better used for a spin-off than a mainline entry. There are ways to keep both the casuals & the competitive sides of the consumer base happy, hence why I suggested to try & expand the exploration and story aspects of the game while keeping the current turn-based combat style largely the same.

adding a light tactics layer isnt that big of an overhaul it would still be turn based with a couple mechanics added on top of it


edit: would also like for them to get rid of the gameboy cries and add in the anime ones i would power up a wobbuffet just for that woOOOBbuffet battlecry

 

[Reivaxe]

adding a light tactics layer isnt that big of an overhaul it would still be turn based with a couple mechanics added on top of it


edit: would also like for them to get rid of the gameboy cries and add in the anime ones i would power up a wobbuffet just for that woOOOBbuffet battlecry

I first thought of Divinity combat as a fast way to show people different turn based combat that's creative, deep and simple but the more I think about it the more I love the idea of some kinda Pokemon version of that battle system.
It's tactical AF so adding it on top of what we already have would 100% make a competitive fan-base as it gives combat so much more depth. And it's easy for people to come up with their own simple strats for encounters or just brute force their way through it.

Really loving the idea.

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

yeah its having the ability to move around a small battle area while still maintaining the pokemon turn based combat but with added elemental effects

using water moves to get small pools of water in the battle area then when the enemy is standing in one calling in an electric type pokemon to use electric moves to get bonus damage from conducted electricity damage

and standing in dirt/dust/smoke clouds caused by abilities on the battlefield to get -hit percentage on enemy attacks

just stuff like that to add more depth to the combat also level scaling please im tired of being able to use 1 ability to whole game because i am over leveled and can clear the game with just using hydropump once and killing my opponent i want to be forced to use tight match ups and have close call battles

 

[Boss Doggie]

If you're referring to me ...
1- I never said it as "minor". I said that Nintendo sees it and plays to it but it's not the driving force to the sales of Pokemon nor do most of the 16mil+ players of recent Pokemon games care about it enough to warrant never changing the combat in any interesting way outta fear of disrupting the "competitive Status Quo".

Do you think it's the driving force behind the series or something? Finally ..

2- I'm 100% sure any change to the battle system will lead to a competitive scene. Is the old established "simple to understand but has a ton of hidden depth cause you're dealing with 100s of possible variables" system what lead to competitive play? Yes.
Would making another "simple to understand but has a ton of hidden depth cause you're dealing with 100s of possible variables" system not have a competitive scene because it's different? I have a feeling anyone interested in competitive will just follow the changes if they enjoy the new system ... so ultimately it doesn't matter when talking about changing things and shouldn't be held as some reason to stick to the same formula.
I don't think main line pokemon will ever be a game designed AROUND being a competitive esport.

Like, a major, major overhaul of their system are based on the competitive nature. They might be smaller in numbers, but GF knows to cater to them. What they're doing is essentially updating for the competitive which also indirectly affects casuals. Like, you think the super speed breeding is for casuals only? Or hell even the infinite TM use?

And they have actually already changed a lot - double battles for instance already is that. And as you can see it's something that adds more to the game without altering much of the system. No slowdown of tactics because of the need to do map layouts, it's literally the same system just added with another player in the field, and it already made major changes.

adding a light tactics layer isnt that big of an overhaul it would still be turn based with a couple mechanics added on top of it

edit: would also like for them to get rid of the gameboy cries and add in the anime ones i would power up a wobbuffet just for that woOOOBbuffet battlecry

They honestly already did that with double battles.

And they tried to change cries (see Psyduck for a fast example), people complained.

 

[Reivaxe]

Like, a major, major overhaul of their system are based on the competitive nature. They might be smaller in numbers, but GF knows to cater to them. What they're doing is essentially updating for the competitive which also indirectly affects casuals. Like, you think the super speed breeding is for casuals only? Or hell even the infinite TM use?

And they have actually already changed a lot - double battles for instance already is that. And as you can see it's something that adds more to the game without altering much of the system. No slowdown of tactics because of the need to do map layouts, it's literally the same system just added with another player in the field, and it already made major changes.

I ask you ... why do you think any QoL changes are made "for the competitive"?
Why the hell wouldn't "super speed breeding" be for casual fans? Many people want to breed stronger versions of their favorite Pokemon with egg moves and natures and abilities because the way the game is set up anything you randomly catch in the wild will most like be weak shit and if you wanna play against other people at all you're gonna want to atleast have your pokemon be good.

Then you have the lot of OTHER fans who use breeding as end game content. Some people just like breeding prefect Pokemon (or their idea of prefect Pokemon) and trading them with others to fill their dex ... or to make a team of perfect Pokemon without having to breed everyone of them in case they wanna play online ... or give them away. For some people Shiny Hunting is the end game goal and many hunters know that if you're breeding for a Shiny Pokemon ... if you ever hope to use them against someone else you might as well make them good in the process. I personally have done all of the above. Why the hell wouldn't I want the strongest version of my Pokemon even if I don't touch the competitive scene??? What, you think all non-competitive gamers are the same and are content having their bro-mons and shiny mons be shit tier?

They have gone outta their way to make getting both good IVs and Shiny Pokemon easier because, why not? It's just a good idea, same with TMs. As people love to point out "Pokemon is made for la kids" and kids these days are in a world of ADHD. Why demand they waste time doing tedious task for long periods of time that simply amounts to rounding in a circle over and over to get their desired outcome?

There's no EFFORT exhorted on their part to simply make things easier to get or take less time. It's like saying "Now, instead of having to walk endlessly for 5 mins you only have to walk for ... 2!". That takes no time or energy or resources.
Where as, on the flip side, Pokemon Amie takes and absolute fukku deku amount of time and resources to make that has nothing to do with competitive play and tells me MUCH more about where they plan to go with the series. Just like the Walk and Run animations that were never used.

I think the problem here is that you're looking at everything through the lenses of competitive play and assuming the only people who bother using such features are those types. ... :/

And again, I fail to see how competitive play would be harmed by some kinda tactical combat system like Divinity. It's all the same stuff placed into a much deeper, much more exciting system that gives way to tons of new strats and metas ... it would do wonders for any Esports scene Nintendo wants to play up. As you pointed out Nintendo has done stuff like this before with doubles and triples and rotating battles ... that's the kinda stuff that makes me think it's a logical next step for the series lol

 

[JoeM86]

If I recall, wasn't this because of the Pokémon Bank not being readily available at the launch of Sun/Moon? Seeing as we can now use the Bank to transfer our old Pokémon to Gen 7, I'd imagine that the National Dex will be fair game afterwards (assuming that we don't get Gen 8 until 2019).

No. They always start off a generation with the Regional Pokédex ruleset

Plus, even if National Dex is next, it still has the Black Clover rule so you can only use Pokémon caught/hatched in Sun & Moon or Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon

 

[mebizzle]

adding a light tactics layer isnt that big of an overhaul it would still be turn based with a couple mechanics added on top of it


edit: would also like for them to get rid of the gameboy cries and add in the anime ones i would power up a wobbuffet just for that woOOOBbuffet battlecry

There are plenty of tactics jrpgs out there, please don't bring that into pokemon

 

[LincolnTunnel]

Pokemon Amie takes and absolute fukku deku amount of time and resources to make that has nothing to do with competitive play and tells me MUCH more about where they plan to go with the series. Just like the Walk and Run animations that were never used.

Not really sure what you mean here. Are you talking about maxing affection? Because you can do that in seconds with three jellybeans.

And again, I fail to see how competitive play would be harmed by some kinda tactical combat system like Divinity. It's all the same stuff placed into a much deeper, much more exciting system that gives way to tons of new strats and metas ... it would do wonders for any Esports scene Nintendo wants to play up. As you pointed out Nintendo has done stuff like this before with doubles and triples and rotating battles ... that's the kinda stuff that makes me think it's a logical next step for the series lol

I don't think people are saying a more tactics focused game can't be competitive. They're saying it would be a completely different game than what is being played right now. It's not about just turning it into eSports. It already has a competitive scene. They don't need a new one.

 

[Professor Beef]

As you pointed out Nintendo has done stuff like this before with doubles and triples and rotating battles ... that's the kinda stuff that makes me think it's a logical next step for the series lol

Those formats went over like a fart in church.

 

[JoeM86]

Those formats went over like a fart in church.

Except for Doubles

 

[snow in jamaica]

I've been playing since 1998, while you were sucking on your momma's teet.

you still haven't finished it???

 

[Professor Beef]

Except for Doubles

every day i cry because doubles is popular

 

[lupinko]

No. They always start off a generation with the Regional Pokédex ruleset

Plus, even if National Dex is next, it still has the Black Clover rule so you can only use Pokémon caught/hatched in Sun & Moon or Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon

So if we get legendaries, I can use my 20th Anniversary Movie Hooh right?

 

[Kinokou]

Believe I commented before but anyway; I would rather have the game with free roaming and overworld Pokémon you can interact with be Pokémon Snap 2 than be a mainline Pokémon.

 

[Clefargle]

Why are y'all trying to rewrite the best, most consistently fun part of the games? What the hell is wrong with the combat? I swear, some of you are so obsessed with the "Botw-pokemon" that you'd accept a mainline game with gimped combat just to have it? You don't even have to gimp it or change it. Just make the overworld 3D, and simply transition to battle scenes once you make contact with a Pokémon or get spotted by a trainer. Adding mechanics to the existing system is fine, just don't replace it for an arbitrary reason. Please don't change the core Pokémon battle mechanics, please don't suggest things like that.

 

[Lyon N. Laap]

I don't get your question.

First off, yes ... Pokemon's combat is simple enuff that a child can brute force their way through it by grinding it out with their starter and a few Pokemon by has enuff complexity for some level of tactical PvP. That's partly because of how it's made and partly because the game never ask more from you in the main plot. Only through things like battle tower and PvP does that complexity matter. I mean, why couldn't a 5 year old blow through the big battles using only their starter if the game never demand they do something more difficult or tactical and just allows it?

I think its a mistake to say that it could only achieve this through being the way it is now combat wise and that anything else would be less accessible in today's world.
For example LOL, the biggest Esports game in the world, has a huge competitive Pro scene and a HUGE player base (young and old) that also bother to follow Pros ("Faker" is basically a house hold name from casual players). like 90% of the players will never get above Bronze/ Silver/ Gold and are perfectly content playing their ever changing game with off meta picks. Hell, a large amount of people don't even bother playing ranked matches and stick to normals/ PvE/ Special Modes.

It's simple to understand the basics so many can play it but it has a world of depth to it that allows for high level tactical competitive team play.

As for the Divinity thing, as I was saying, IDK what you're asking.
Can a kid who watches the Anime understand that making a fire type Pokemon set this spot ablaze and then having a water type put it out causes steam clouds that make it harder to see for the Pokemon? What about fire+ice=Steam/ fog?
Can some other move like sunny day or just a powerful special flying type attack clear the steam away? If your character is in a hurty spot move them outta it? Like, Divinity works off pretty simple common sense things with hidden depth so you can make it as easy as you want but have the meat when needed for those looking for it. I see no reason some version of the way Divinity works can't be accessible to everyone.



That's not a negative by it's self. I mean, I loved OoT and all the Zelda games that would try to be "OoT but better" ... I would normally just suggest modest changes just like many here are doing but over all I just expected the same-ol formula but prettier. I didn't know I'd want something like BoTW until Nintendo had the balls to do something big and new with the series and now I can't imagine wanting new console Zeldas that go back to the OoT formula.

Which is kinda the point. Many people love it the way it is now but are interested in seeing it change after seeing how things are shaping up for Zelda and Mario.

My query in regards to Divinity: Original Sin revolved around the inherent barrier of entry it provides to potential younger players then currently exists in Pokémon. You indicated that a battle system like Divinity would be preferable for yourself; I was pointing out through the question such a change would most likely result in the series being more out of reach of its intended major target audience and likely more niche.

I don't think a five year old could easily brute force their way through most of the mainline series with just their starters. The games are easy, but they aren't that easy.

I'm not saying that the current process of combat is the only way; but just because another game can do it too doesn't take away from the fact that age-transcending enjoyability is a benefit to the current battle system. The success of League and other MOBAs also seem pretty hard to generalize to other genres.

Major upheavals to the battle system would come at the risk of destroying the identity that the games have established over the course of its history, an identity that has proven itself to resound and be enjoyed by millions. I don't see a reason to shake things up just for the sake of it, especially since I'm one of the people who likes the combat the way it is. Why so majorly change the mainline series when so many people enjoy it for the way it is and has been?

I don't think it's fair to compare Zelda to Pokémon. This isn't a dig at Zelda, but Pokémon is the wildly more popular series; as a franchise it's comparable to Star Wars in recognition and profits. Much more people enjoy the Pokémon games then enjoy Zelda games; that paradoxically gives Zelda more freedom to experiment as they try to find a more marketable and successful model. For this reason, I doubt a post BOTW console-style Zelda will stray far from the successful style of its predecessor for this reason.

The change you're asking for is like asking Titanfall to turn into Rainbow 6. Yes, it'd still be turn based strategy, but actual combat, actual gameplay, would be near unrecognizeable from what is expected of the series, with the possibly correspondingly smaller and different audience.

Like I said, I'd see nothing wrong with making the main and post game content more varied, with difficulty scaling and more varied paths to take. I'd love for the world itself to be more immersive, to feel like the overworld is a living place. But the combat, the way that battles play out, is iconic and integral to the mainline Pokémon games.

Any extremely major shifts in how battles are conducted I thus would prefer in spinoffs, like Pokémon Ranger or Mystery Dungeon.

 

[Reivaxe]

Not really sure what you mean here. Are you talking about maxing affection? Because you can do that in seconds with three jellybeans.

... No, my point is that Pokemon Amie is a feature that requires the devs to make a full list of animations for close to 1000 Pokemon in what's a completely optional feature with no connection to competitive play at all.

That's actual man power, time and budget put into something that's VERY large in scope. This feature only serves to add to the immersion/ world building/ depiction of trainer and Pokemon connecting/ fantasy fulfillment for the player. That's the type of stuff that shows you what direction a company is trying to go or seems to value.

I don't think people are saying a more tactics focused game can't be competitive. They're saying it would be a completely different game than what is being played right now. It's not about just turning it into eSports. It already has a competitive scene. They don't need a new one.

And I'm saying that it wouldn't be "completely different" and would fit the games well as a natural evolution of the current game play. Also saying that the very way the game is set up if tactical combat was incorporated in some way a competitive scene would follow regardless so it's a moot point ultimately to whine about it.

Those formats went over like a fart in church.

1- Doubles are damn popular.
2- The point is to show that GF is willing to fuck with the combat system.

Hell, the 3DS games brought about hordes and now Pokemon Cries (aka, possibly endless 1v2s if you're trying to capture a Pokemon at low HP) to the PvE.

 

[JoeM86]

So if we get legendaries, I can use my 20th Anniversary Movie Hooh right?

Yeah but it won't be. It'll be Sub-Legends only

2- The point is to show that GF is willing to fuck with the combat system.

There's a difference between adding new modes and altering the concept and structure of the battle system

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

Why are y'all trying to rewrite the best, most consistently fun part of the games? What the hell is wrong with the combat? I swear, some of you are so obsessed with the "Botw-pokemon" that you'd accept a mainline game with gimped combat just to have it? You don't even have to gimp it or change it. Just make the overworld 3D, and simply transition to battle scenes once you make contact with a Pokémon or get spotted by a trainer. Adding mechanics to the existing system is fine, just don't replace it for an arbitrary reason. Please don't change the core Pokémon battle mechanics, please don't suggest things like that.

the bare minimum they need to do is add a hard mode where everything scales with your highest pokemons level i couldnt even force myself to beat moon got to the 4th trial and just stopped theres only so long you can play before only using 1 move once to wipe out your opponent gets old might as well as just auto resolve right when the match starts to save time
they either need to add new mechanics to make it interesting or increase the difficulty

 

[Slamtastic]

Why are y'all trying to rewrite the best, most consistently fun part of the games? What the hell is wrong with the combat? I swear, some of you are so obsessed with the "Botw-pokemon" that you'd accept a mainline game with gimped combat just to have it? You don't even have to gimp it or change it. Just make the overworld 3D, and simply transition to battle scenes once you make contact with a Pokémon or get spotted by a trainer. Adding mechanics to the existing system is fine, just don't replace it for an arbitrary reason. Please don't change the core Pokémon battle mechanics, please don't suggest things like that.

I agree completely, I don't even like any other turn based games, but the existing Pokémon battle system is fine.

It's just the entire structure of the game surrounding battles that needs to be completely overhauled.

They don't have to upset the competitive multiplayer scene by overhauling battles, they just need to make Skyrim, but when the Bandit (trainer) or Wolf (wild pokémon) is aggroed and chases you down into range, instead of fighting it with action combat, it transitions into a battle screen that plays exactly as the existing games do.

 

[Sheentak]

If like to have some quality of life features more than anything.

Instantly hatch eggs when you finish the pokemon league. Just give me a high speed incubator biking up and down is boring.

Stop locking items at the battle tower/post game give alternative ways to get said item.

Give us a laptop for us to check a pokemon stats you have on your pc. Like I understand why you can't withdraw and deposit pokemon but when I catch something I'd atleast like to how it is.

Will never happen but can we have a 2nd save file so we can do nuzlockes?
What about a postgame nuzlocke mode that you use rental pokemon for?

Sort out the whole megastone thing it's a pain, why not just have a generic megastone that works with everything? Less work for you game freak.

Bring back the pss the whole plaza is confusing and I can't be be bothered with it.

How about 2-4 players being in the same world at once? That be kinda cool. Could hit that mmo fantasy people have had for years.

Clefable mega evolution please or a light ball for clefairy

 

[fierrotlepou]

This game is going to release in 2019 at the earliest.

 

[Clefargle]

the bare minimum they need to do is add a hard mode where everything scales with your highest pokemons level i couldnt even force myself to beat moon got to the 4th trial and just stopped theres only so long you can play before only using 1 move once to wipe out your opponent gets old might as well as just auto resolve right when the match starts to save time
they either need to add new mechanics to make it interesting or increase the difficulty

Ok, adding a mode or scaling difficulty is ok. Just don't rewrite the gameplay mechanics like typing, movesets, abilities, held items, megas/forms/zmoves. Keep all the legacy mechanics and just add stuff to it, or at the most, change the damage calc or whatever you need to change to implement a hard mode. I get that people REALLY care about the single player side of it, and that's cool. But don't rewrite the battle mechanics to make the single player more difficult.

I agree completely, I don't even like any other turn based games, but the existing Pokémon battle system is fine.

It's just the entire structure of the game surrounding battles that needs to be completely overhauled.

They don't have to upset the competitive multiplayer scene by overhauling battles, they just need to make Skyrim, but when the Bandit (trainer) or Wolf (wild pokémon) is aggroed and chases you down into range, instead of fighting it with action combat, it transitions into a battle screen that plays exactly as the existing games do.

Sure. The overarching world design is dated and stale. It could use a full overhaul, and if GF is serious about making good use of the hardware in Switch, they will go full 3D. (You know what I mean)

Clefable mega evolution please or a light ball for clefairy

Let's turn this thread into a Clefairy/Clefable love thread! I'm still waiting for the dark/fairy type mega-Clefable based on the evil clefable from the manga:

Please Gamefreak, please do this.

There's a difference between adding new modes and altering the concept and structure of the battle system

There it is, couldn't have said it better

 

[Haganeren]

Watch it still be top down view.

Would be great but i feel like it will end up more generic.

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

Ok, adding a mode or scaling difficulty is ok. Just don't rewrite the gameplay mechanics like typing, movesets, abilities, held items, megas/forms/zmoves. Keep all the legacy mechanics and just add stuff to it, or at the most, change the damage calc or whatever you need to change to implement a hard mode. I get that people REALLY care about the single player side of it, and that's cool. But don't rewrite the battle mechanics to make the single player more difficult.



Sure. The overarching world design is dated and stale. It could use a full overhaul, and if GF is serious about making good use of the hardware in Switch, they will go full 3D. (You know what I mean)




Let's turn this thread into a Clefairy/Clefable love thread! I'm still waiting for the dark/fairy type mega-Clefable based on the evil clefable from the manga:

Please Gamefreak, please do this.



There it is, couldn't have said it better

well to be fair if they added the slight tactics layer to the game all that other stuff would still be in just with a couple added mechanics on top of it like having actions that you could spend to either move to position yourself before you attack or save them to try and use them to dodge incoming attacks nothing about that would kill competitive all it would do is add a bit more depth

all i want overall is a bit more focus on you being in the pokemon world
3rd person massive open world (movement and feel same as BotW)

can tackle the game any way you want hit any gym in any order search the world for gyms climb mountains, sail the sea looking for hidden islands and areas where a gym might be trying to get 8 badges so you can enter pokemon league battles then after that take on the elite 4

a focus on you as a trainer have dangers and obsticles you have to overcome in the world that you get past by using the pokemon you have on hand other wise you could be knocked out and wake up in the nearest pokecenter

Would be great but i feel like it will end up more generic.

yes because top down isnt generic

 

[klaushm]

What channels do you recommend me to watch Sun & Moon? I want to have a better knowledge of what they improved since X & Y.

Before someone says to me "Just play it", it's out of my budget and time this month.

 

[Kyzer]

well to be fair if they added the slight tactics layer to the game all that other stuff would still be in just with a couple added mechanics on top of it like having actions that you could spend to either move to position yourself before you attack or save them to try and use them to dodge incoming attacks nothing about that would kill competitive all it would do is add a bit more depth

That sounds terrible

They do add layers; Megas, Z Moves, is much better than arbitrary positioning for "strategy". Pokemons not a strategy rpg. Not all depth is good. Pokemon is meant to be simple. The whole point is that its accessible by almost anyone in any age range. Choose a move. Rock, paper, scissors. Thats it, done.

I would love a bigger better more immersive world. I would even be up for an open world deal. If thats what people mean by botw pokemon im all in

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

That sounds terrible

They do add layers; Megas, Z Moves, is much better than arbitrary positioning for "strategy". Pokemons not a strategy rpg. Not all depth is good. Pokemon is meant to be simple. The whole point is that its accessible by almost anyone in any age range. Choose a move. Rock, paper, scissors. Thats it, done.

I would love a bigger better more immersive world. I would even be up for an open world deal. If thats what people mean by botw pokemon im all in

more like level up a little bit not even that much then destroy everything with 1 move need more to it then that

 

[Kyzer]

more like level up a little bit not even that much then destroy everything with 1 move need more to it then that

Not really...the whole games are already like that until the E4 onward. Theyre kids games, and its like super saiyan and ultimate moves. Pretty simple stuff and things kids playing games would enjoy.

 

[The Shadow Knight]

more like level up a little bit not even that much then destroy everything with 1 move need more to it then that

There are very few RPGs out there where grinding does not break the difficulty, AFAIK.

 

[Clefargle]

more like level up a little bit not even that much then destroy everything with 1 move need more to it then that

This might be the experience in single player, but it isn't even close to how competitive matches go. Entirely different levels of complexity and depth. So what? The core single player gameplay is easy. Ok. Sorry about that, maybe they'll add a hard mode or whatever, but goddamn them if they fuck with the actual base gameplay. Gamefreak is too smart to mess with that success. If you want tactics gameplay, go play tactics games. It isn't Pokémon and I don't want to spend resources to move around a grid to attack. The most I would concede is an option to switch Pokémon position in double battles by sacrificing a turn. Could be risky as hell but could also pay off with prediction. Also might end up being annoying, or drawing out the time of each match. which I would avoid at any cost.

 

[brinstar]

Oh yeah instant egg hatching would be great. They could even make it something you have to unlock with lots of BP I don't care, but running in circles is idiotic

 

[Haganeren]

yes because top down isnt generic

A top down game with a big budget is incredibly un-generic, it doesn't happens too much. I'm sure there is way to make different kind of top down view and Pokemon tried that on 3DS... But sooner or alter it will becomes like all the others game, with a full 3D control.

So yeah, i think you're wrong....

 

[Kyzer]

They should make it so after the postgame thing you unlock Doduo Mode

 

[JershJopstin]

every day i cry because doubles is popular

Doubles is way more interesting to me, personally. Most of my "competitive" play is just dicking around with unorthodox combinations online though, so that shouldn't be too surprising. (Holy hell is it fun, though. Evoboosted Glaceon behind aurora veil is hilarious, if you can actually live to set it up.)

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

A top down game with a big budget is incredibly un-generic, it doesn't happens too much. I'm sure there is way to make different kind of top down view and Pokemon tried that on 3DS... But sooner or alter it will becomes like all the others game, with a full 3D control.

So yeah, i think you're wrong....

there are a bunch of high budget top down rpg games

 

[Sickboy007]

Believe I commented before but anyway; I would rather have the game with free roaming and overworld Pokémon you can interact with be Pokémon Snap 2 than be a mainline Pokémon.

You can still have that and turn-based battles.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I ask you ... why do you think any QoL changes are made "for the competitive"?
Why the hell wouldn't "super speed breeding" be for casual fans? Many people want to breed stronger versions of their favorite Pokemon with egg moves and natures and abilities because the way the game is set up anything you randomly catch in the wild will most like be weak shit and if you wanna play against other people at all you're gonna want to atleast have your pokemon be good.

Then you have the lot of OTHER fans who use breeding as end game content. Some people just like breeding prefect Pokemon (or their idea of prefect Pokemon) and trading them with others to fill their dex ... or to make a team of perfect Pokemon without having to breed everyone of them in case they wanna play online ... or give them away. For some people Shiny Hunting is the end game goal and many hunters know that if you're breeding for a Shiny Pokemon ... if you ever hope to use them against someone else you might as well make them good in the process. I personally have done all of the above. Why the hell wouldn't I want the strongest version of my Pokemon even if I don't touch the competitive scene??? What, you think all non-competitive gamers are the same and are content having their bro-mons and shiny mons be shit tier?

They have gone outta their way to make getting both good IVs and Shiny Pokemon easier because, why not? It's just a good idea, same with TMs. As people love to point out "Pokemon is made for la kids" and kids these days are in a world of ADHD. Why demand they waste time doing tedious task for long periods of time that simply amounts to rounding in a circle over and over to get their desired outcome?

There's no EFFORT exhorted on their part to simply make things easier to get or take less time. It's like saying "Now, instead of having to walk endlessly for 5 mins you only have to walk for ... 2!". That takes no time or energy or resources.
Where as, on the flip side, Pokemon Amie takes and absolute fukku deku amount of time and resources to make that has nothing to do with competitive play and tells me MUCH more about where they plan to go with the series. Just like the Walk and Run animations that were never used.

I think the problem here is that you're looking at everything through the lenses of competitive play and assuming the only people who bother using such features are those types. ... :/

And again, I fail to see how competitive play would be harmed by some kinda tactical combat system like Divinity. It's all the same stuff placed into a much deeper, much more exciting system that gives way to tons of new strats and metas ... it would do wonders for any Esports scene Nintendo wants to play up. As you pointed out Nintendo has done stuff like this before with doubles and triples and rotating battles ... that's the kinda stuff that makes me think it's a logical next step for the series lol

No you miss my point.

Those QoLs affect both casual and competitive yes, but if you look at it, the main advantage definitely is streamlining competitive point. The casual bonus is there for the ride.

And yeah you got Amie, but they also did with easier matchmaking in the form of PSS (to which I still scorn Gen VII for abandoning), among other things.

And I didn't say that - I am not competitive yet I enjoy those QoL. My point is though that the major boon for those QoL are the competitive types.

 

[Reivaxe]

My query in regards to Divinity: Original Sin revolved around the inherent barrier of entry it provides to potential younger players then currently exists in Pokémon. You indicated that a battle system like Divinity would be preferable for yourself; I was pointing out through the question such a change would most likely result in the series being more out of reach of its intended major target audience and likely more niche.

I don't think a five year old could easily brute force their way through most of the mainline series with just their starters. The games are easy, but they aren't that easy.

You seem to assume I mean they should full on copy it AND I think you greatly underestimate the mental strength of children if you think that asking them to move their Pokemon around and take environment common sense elements into account is too much. Hell, the games have overworld puzzles that demand as much or more thought than the basics of a Pokemon version of a Tactical battles.

Also ... lmao!
Red, I Brute Forced it with Charizard.
Ruby, Female Blaziken and I had to fill up her HP and PP after every E4 match. Still remember that.
I was sooo disgusted with Final Form Oshawott and all the starters that gen that in BW2 as soon as I could I traded in my Prefect Shiny Axew baby from BW and beat the game with him. He fully evolved at the Ice Type gym ... I beat the shit outta that game with my black Haxorus Bro.
SM I got through it with my Primarina and Sylveon cause I just wanted to get to my version of the end game and relied on them too much by the time I realized I wanted to wrap it up. Looked up and noticed "Oh .... I basically used only these 2 Pokemon up to this point. Do i wanna waste my time building up some weak Pokemon or just roll with it? Lets roll, I wanna start breeding and shiny hunting".

I'm not saying that the current process of combat is the only way; but just because another game can do it too doesn't take away from the fact that age-transcending enjoyability is a benefit to the current battle system. The success of League and other MOBAs also seem pretty hard to generalize to other genres.

Major upheavals to the battle system would come at the risk of destroying the identity that the games have established over the course of its history, an identity that has proven itself to resound and be enjoyed by millions. I don't see a reason to shake things up just for the sake of it, especially since I'm one of the people who likes the combat the way it is. Why so majorly change the mainline series when so many people enjoy it for the way it is and has been?

The thing is I think that the battle system as is isn't "beloved" or w/e ... I think it's tolerated.
JRPGs have an interesting sharp disconnect between combat and the rest of the experience. You can love the combat and rush past all story just to get more of what you like ... and you can feel the opposite of that. I think many fans see the combat system as "serviceable". Neither something to be excited over nor something that takes away. Just "OK" or meh. If you think someone loving the series means they must LOVE the combat then I must disagree. Hell, I LOVE BoTW and see it's combat as "Ehh ... that's serviceable". Same for every other Non-SS LoZ and any Pokemon game after Red. Hell, when I first posted in here about BoTW Pokemon i didn't even bother changing the battle system other than not having to waste my time with EPIC SCREEN WIPES!

Thing also is ... it's understandable for Pokemon.
Pokemon has never had a chance until now to make something new or big for it. Given the amount of Pokemon and the hard wear they're on they struggled to even animate Pokemon for much of the series and THIS battle format was the best one to allow you to even SEE these non-animated Pokemon images in battle. Make them any smaller for tactical combat on past handhelds and you loss out on a ton of personality as they're basically dots ... AND you'd have to animate more to show character cause otherwise it would look cheap af.

I don't think it's fair to compare Zelda to Pokémon. This isn't a dig at Zelda, but Pokémon is the wildly more popular series; as a franchise it's comparable to Star Wars in recognition and profits. Much more people enjoy the Pokémon games then enjoy Zelda games; that paradoxically gives Zelda more freedom to experiment as they try to find a more marketable and successful model. For this reason, I doubt a post BOTW console-style Zelda will stray far from the successful style of its predecessor for this reason.

( LoZ is by far big enough to make Nintendo afraid of changing it too much. Some people don't like BoTW cause it's so different from what the series has been since OoT even though it was very different before OoT came out)
Then compare it to Mario ... a more successful series than pokemon that's older and as iconic as Mickey Mouse. When given the power to they changed the core game play of the game by going from 2D to 3D which I would call a much bigger change then I'm suggesting..

Which is the main point. For the first time they have a real option to change something. Maybe they will, maybe they wont. Never said they HAVE to but I'd love it if they did. I don't feel any big change was ever possible before given the simple fact that it's a daunting task to do something new when you gotta do it with 100s of characters in 2D on a tiny screen. Just look at the transition to 3D ... battles run like shit because they made the models high poly AF to future proof them so that they didn't have to bother starting from the ground up again and again.

No you miss my point.

Those QoLs affect both casual and competitive yes, but if you look at it, the main advantage definitely is streamlining competitive point. The casual bonus is there for the ride.

And yeah you got Amie, but they also did with easier matchmaking in the form of PSS (to which I still scorn Gen VII for abandoning), among other things.

And I didn't say that - I am not competitive yet I enjoy those QoL. My point is though that the major boon for those QoL are the competitive types.

You seem to be picking and choosing how you wanna see QoL changes. Like ... is them telling you which attack is gonna be super or not very effective a competitive QoL change ooooor just a pretty no-brainer way of helping people? Is making a system to hunt shiny Pokemon easier for competitive to cause it also leads to better IVs?

What IS your definition of competitive? Someone who plays against others online or people who go outta their way to drive across the state and battle people in person?

And when the "casuals" are the overwhelming majority there is no "casual bonus there for the ride". It's a QoL change made for players in a world where you can't expect people to invest the same amount of time into stuff that they did years ago. It helps this ADHD generation of kids, it helps adults too busy with their lives to invest the time they could as kids, it helps anyone interested in having strong Pokemon for any reason seeing as anything you find in the wild is likely gonna be shit. If anything competitive gets to ride the perks of some common sense QoL updates to features.

 

[Haganeren]

there are a bunch of high budget top down rpg games

I would have loved to see you quote me one. I can only think of indie W-RPG right now. I am Setsuna was obviously little budget so i can only think of Pokemon... Yokai Watch too maybe ? Still, it doesn't seem to have a high budget either.. Just not a little one.

 

[Rygar 8 Bit]

I would have loved to see you quote me one. I can only think of indie W-RPG right now. I am Setsuna was obviously little budget so i can only think of Pokemon... Yokai Watch too maybe ? Still, it doesn't seem to have a high budget either.. Just not a little one.

diablo, divinity, never winter nights come on now theres a crap ton of others