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[Endymion]

Just from the specs alone you know it's gonna cost more to make then the 360.

Don't forget Sony fab most of the components themselves. They have a clear advantage compared to MS in this regard. They can offer (some) more at the same price without losing as much.

 

[Endymion]

wifi costs about 10$ to include internally.

I know, but it's still there.

On topic, this price seems totally feasible to me by the end of 2006 considering the sheer volume they "know" they can get in households.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

MS has nearly 4 times Sony's operating cash flow as a company (3.71 Billion versus 15.54 Billion) and has almost 10 times Sony's total cash (3.81 Billion versus 34.7 Billion). Sony has strong sales of PS2, market leadership, and a loyal fanbase. One of the more interesting questions will be what the price will be and what Sony will have to do to make up revenue lost if they go with a price point of $399?

 

[Dr_Cogent]

E3 is where the real info will be at. Even then, shit can change from there.

Real SKU's FTW!

 

[gofreak]

E3 is where the real info will be at. Even then, shit can change from there.

Real SKU's FTW!

QFT. People shouldn't talk about this stuff as if it was confirmed :lol I think some will be very disappointed if they take this as is..

 

[cyberheater]

There are other factors besides IC, like being able to manufacturing components in house. One can't just look at Internel Components and compare the two companies like they are truely comparable.

Manufacturing in house is not always cheaper. Our company has outsourced a lot of components for cost benefits.

 

[Magicpaint]

I really, really hope the high res PS1 & 2 stuff is true. That'll make playing old games a pleasure.

 

[Dr. Jade]

my wallet weeps

 

[BlueTsunami]

Manufacturing in house is not always cheaper. Our company has outsourced a lot of components for cost benefits.

So your saying that paying another company to manfucature your IC for a certain device is not as cost effective as using the plants you own, in house to manufacture the components needed?

 

[Geoff9920]

$399 with a 60 HDD and Blu-Ray? Awesome if true, but I'll believe it when I see it. This info sounds more like a wish list than actual info. If they think they're going scale a 480i/60fps ps2 game to 1080p/60fps they've got another thing coming. But lets not go there.

 

[cyberheater]

So your saying that paying another company to manfucature your IC for a certain device is not as cost effective as using the plants you own, in house to manufacture the components needed?

Yes it can be cheaper, depending where you manufacturer, wage costs, and the supply chain required.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Yes it can be cheaper, depending where you manufacturer, wage costs, and the supply chain required.

So whats the point of owning your own plants if you can go to a 3rd party company to do it for you (cheaper to boot). Seems like Billions down the drain for Sony if theres no benefits of owning their own plants

 

[thorns]

ps1/ps2 running at 720p might be just rescaling, not natively rendering at those resolutions like ePSXe does. If it's just rescaling that's not comparable to what ePSXe does at all. So "Running at" is rather vague ..

 

[Snookie]

I think Sony has no choice but to sell it at $399. Of course the die hards are going to buy it at 499, but they need to compete with MS, and selling it any higher than the 360 is not good. Besides they really want to establish blu-ray so I'm sure they won't mind taking a hit for a few years in hopes that BR becomes mainstream.

 

[Uncle]

So whats the point of owning your own plants if you can go to a 3rd party company to do it for you (cheaper to boot). Seems like Billions down the drain for Sony if theres no benefits of owning their own plants

Because it can be cheaper doesn't mean it will be cheaper. I'm sure MS could start up their own factories if they wanted to, but it wouldn't necessarily be more efficient or any cheaper. Sony uses their plants for other stuff too, so it makes sense to manufacture the PS3 themselves.

 

[cyberheater]

So whats the point of owning your own plants if you can go to a 3rd party company to do it for you (cheaper to boot). Seems like Billions down the drain for Sony if theres no benefits of owning their own plants

Which is why EMs and OEMs like Celestica, Solectron, Benchmark etc... are flowering. A lot of plants are in the far east close to the supply base and there prices are very competitive.

Remember, retooling cost etc... can be very expensive but you can factor that into a long term external manufacturing contract.

 

[Diomedeskun]

Don't know what this game is http://www.ati-power.fr/UserFiles/Image/retro/ePSXe 2005-10-01 14-57-41-85.jpg

It's the first Bushido Blade. Playing both of those on Bleem, I used to salivate over just what they would look like when enhanced by the PS2's then rumored graphical improvement options. A worthy successor (not Kengo) would have been my most played PS2 game.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Because it can be cheaper doesn't mean it will be cheaper. I'm sure MS could start up their own factories if they wanted to, but it wouldn't necessarily be more efficient or any cheaper. Sony uses their plants for other stuff too, so it makes sense to manufacture the PS3 themselves.

I'm unsure how 3rd party companies could offer you the ability to manufacture at lower costs if you've got the added layer of paying them to use the plants in the first place (or any other agreemement).

Also about MS, I'm sure MS COULD start up their own plants (or buy out some) but being a primarily sofware based company, I see no reason too. Sony being primarily Hardware based.

I just see the majority of the IC for the PS3 being manufactured by Sony as allowing them to release the PS3 at a lower pricepoint than expected. Though, thats just speculation, justs like saying they are going to be losing gobs of money is just speculation.

 

[Yoboman]

I think these are just PSM's guesses. I don't think they reported the price as "our sources say", I think it was more like "we think it should be".

I don't see $399 happening with the HDD.

Microsoft did it. With an even more expensive customised clip on HDD that has its own nice little screen on it. And then with a whole bunch of extras to boot. People are expecting way too much from PS3's cost.

 

[Geoff9920]

Microsoft did it. With an even more expensive customised clip on HDD that has its own nice little screen on it. And then with a whole bunch of extras to boot. People are expecting way too much from PS3's cost.

We're expecting too much because the cheapest Blu-Ray player is $1,000.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

We're expecting too much because the cheapest Blu-Ray player is $1,000.

Sony already has a DVD player on the market greater than $1000. This is not a factor.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CRLRK8/sr=1-12/qid=1146057702/ref=sr_1_12/102-4203596-5127360?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=audio-video

 

[BlueTsunami]

We're expecting too much because the cheapest Blu-Ray player is $1,000.

Its already been stated but PS3 is just using a SlimDrive type of BD. The only thing it has in common with with actual BD players is that there using the same Laser diode. Thats it.

If you look at the $1,000 BD player and think its about $500 to manufcature (or something) than i'm not sure what to think.

 

[PhoenixDark]

PS3 will probably be $500, unless Sony is real aggressive and goes for a $400 price aimed directly at the 360.

 

[Geoff9920]

Its already been stated but PS3 is just using a SlimDrive type of BD. The only thing it has in common with with actual BD players is that there using the same Laser diode. Thats it.

If you look at the $1,000 BD player and think its about $500 to manufcature (or something) than i'm not sure what to think.

If this drive is cheaper, why aren't other players using it? I'm honestly curious, not trying to troll or anything.

 

[gofreak]

Microsoft did it.

Microsoft did it with a very different system. Given the system PS3 is without the HDD, I don't see it hitting $399 with it. HDD is the most likely component to be "peripheralised", that's why I single it out.

 

[Yoboman]

We're expecting too much because the cheapest Blu-Ray player is $1,000.

I wasn't aware potential 100 million of those will be manufactured.

You think it's even comparable when the only hardware fom those machines that will be shared is the Blu Ray laser, and disc drive - the cost of those Blu Ray machines are due to the crazy hardware in them necessary for decoding and running the movies. When you only make a thousand or so of these and you want to make a profit, the price is gonna be high.

AFAIK, Cell and Blu Ray can cover all that hardware for decoding and running the Blu Ray movies.

 

[Kolgar]

If true, Sony wins, with authority.

 

[BlueTsunami]

If this drive is cheaper, why aren't other players using it? I'm honestly curious, not trying to troll or anything.

Because their not worrying about being cost effective. Its obvious that the $1,000 BD Player pricepoint is highly inflated for videophiles that would pay that much for bleeding edge technology.

The same happened with DVD players when they were first released. Also, its not only about the drive in the PS3 thats dropping the costs, its the fact that its using a physical drive and a physical drive alone to read BD disks. Decoding and whatnot is being done by Cell and RSX.

 

[Uncle]

I'm unsure how 3rd party companies could offer you the ability to manufacture at lower costs if you've got the added layer of paying them to use the plants in the first place (or any other agreemement).

If your own factories aren't as efficient, are poorly managed or are in a more expensive location (wages, taxes, logistics etc.). It's very likely that Sony can manfuacture the PS3 more cost efficiently than MS, but it's not certain. I'm sure there are analyses out there but I'm not that interested in the subject.

 

[Yoboman]

Microsoft did it with a very different system. Given the system PS3 is without the HDD, I don't see it hitting $399 with it. HDD is the most likely component to be "peripheralised", that's why I single it out.

Different system or not, Sony would have created their system with an aim and I doubt they'd have slipped up and gone over $500 or even $400. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if PS3 had been aimed at a $299 price when being created, though Microsoft's pricetag gives leeway not to go so low.

Come on, would Sony have added all those 6 USB ports, built-in WiFi and dual HDMI ports if they were struggling to keep costs low?

 

[Geoff9920]

Because their not worrying about being cost effective. Its obvious that the $1,000 BD Player pricepoint is highly inflated for videophiles that would pay that much for bleeding edge technology.

The same happened with DVD players when they were first released. Also, its not only about the drive in the PS3 thats dropping the costs, its the fact that its using a physical drive and a physical drive alone to read BD disks. Decoding and whatnot is being done by Cell and RSX.

That's rather odd, you'd think they would at least match the price of Toshiba's $500 HD-DVD player, but I guess that's where the PS3 comes in. Anyway, thanks for the info.

 

[gofreak]

Different system or not, Sony would have created their system with an aim and I doubt they'd have slipped up and gone over $500 or even $400. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if PS3 had been aimed at a $299 price when being created, though Microsoft's pricetag gives leeway not to go so low.

Come on, would Sony have added all those 6 USB ports, built-in WiFi and dual HDMI ports if they were struggling to keep costs low?

How do you know they weren't aiming for $499, for example? All while Kutaragi was talking about those 6 USB ports and built-in wifi etc. etc. he was reminding us that it would likely be quite expensive.

 

[DenogginizerOS]

How do you know they weren't aiming for $499, for example? All while Kutaragi was talking about those 6 USB ports and built-in wifi etc. etc. he was reminding us that it would likely be quite expensive.

True. And I overheard a clerk at Gamestop tell a mom that the PS3 price was unannounced but likely to be expensive. She said the X360 was already more than she wanted to spend last XMAS. He told her that the PS3 could be $500 and she laughed and said the X360 will be enough, for now. I think Sony has to be very careful not to pull a Saturn and have a system that is $100 more than its competitor. There will be a lot of games on the shelf for X360 in November that will also be on PS3 and that may be enough to dissuade people. However, the PS3's BC list for PS2 games should also be impressive. Ahhh.. who the hell knows!!! I just want to play Metal Gear Solid 4 ASAP. Let's goooo!

 

[maximum360]

Great news if true.

"ps1 and ps2 games will be playable in 720p, 1080i and 1080p"

Upscaled you'll probably see a marginal difference in PS2 games but I wouldn't expect much from upscaling PS1 games at this point. I am interested in what kind of scaler they will use though. I have a MCE PC and I've streamed videos from my PC to my 360 (most in SD resolution) and they actually look pretty darn good on my TV (much better than watching the original video on my monitor or if I connected my PC directly to my tv). It seems the 360 may have a decent scaler after all. The few Xbox titles I played on the 360 got a semi-decent visual upgrade as well.

I'm hoping that PS3 will have a scaler that is at least on par or better than the 360.

 

[WalkMan]

True. And I overheard a clerk at Gamestop tell a mom that the PS3 price was unannounced but likely to be expensive. She said the X360 was already more than she wanted to spend last XMAS. He told her that the PS3 could be $500 and she laughed and said the X360 will be enough, for now. I think Sony has to be very careful not to pull a Saturn and have a system that is $100 more than its competitor. There will be a lot of games on the shelf for X360 in November that will also be on PS3 and that may be enough to dissuade people. However, the PS3's BC list for PS2 games should also be impressive. Ahhh.. who the hell knows!!! I just want to play Metal Gear Solid 4 ASAP. Let's goooo!

Are we doubting the Sony Brand Name? We'll see at E3 how things pan out, but 399$ is a reasonable price and Sony has proven that they can easily recoup their costs within a matter of a couple years unlike Microsoft...still losing money per Xbox.

 

[Geoff9920]

Are we doubting the Sony Brand Name? We'll see at E3 how things pan out, but 399$ is a reasonable price and Sony has proven that they can easily recoup their costs within a matter of a couple years unlike Microsoft...still losing money per Xbox.

Well, to be fair, the ps2 vs. xbox cost recoup situations are very different than the current one. Microsoft made some rather poor deals in manufacturing that gave them very little chance of recouping their costs.

 

[DCX]

If true, Sony wins, with authority.

And why may i ask? If Kill Zone, Tekken and dare i say, MGS 4 don't impress or are just as good, if not worse than say, Ghost Recon, DOA 4, and Splinter Cell...why would it win outright
?! Especially if the price point is going to be around 500. I see maybe a long battle potentailly ending with a Sony win, only becuase of the drones.

DCX

 

[Illuminati]

Upscaled you'll probably see a marginal difference in PS2 games

It should be alot more then just marginal, PS2 games that are 480i look like ass in HD. Specifically jaggy edge problems and some games look a little blurry.

 

[Guns N' Poops]

That price can't be right. And if it is, Europe will make up for the losses with a 500€ price.

 

[D3VI0US]

PRAYS FOR DVR!

 

[MightyHedgehog]

PRAYS FOR DVR!

Keep praying. The Sony gods sell standalone DVR units, as well. I don't think they want to cut into too many of their product lines with just one unit. There's no benefit for them.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

True. And I overheard a clerk at Gamestop tell a mom that the PS3 price was unannounced but likely to be expensive. She said the X360 was already more than she wanted to spend last XMAS. He told her that the PS3 could be $500 and she laughed and said the X360 will be enough, for now. I think Sony has to be very careful not to pull a Saturn and have a system that is $100 more than its competitor. There will be a lot of games on the shelf for X360 in November that will also be on PS3 and that may be enough to dissuade people. However, the PS3's BC list for PS2 games should also be impressive. Ahhh.. who the hell knows!!! I just want to play Metal Gear Solid 4 ASAP. Let's goooo!

I'm the only person I know that will pony up for a 500 dollar system. I'm viewed as a gaming lunatic by most anyway. Over 500, I have trouble convincing the wife then. I'm getting the Rev, and if Microsoft does go to $299 with HDD, Sony is going to have to come out lower than they might have wanted. A $200 difference is huge. This is under the assumption that the PS3 is $500.

 

[Monorojo]

- the price should be 399 USD (at least, the mag thinks so)

WORLD EXPLODE

Seriously, if Sony can pull this off it's a victory in every sense of the word.

 

[Yoboman]

How do you know they weren't aiming for $499, for example? All while Kutaragi was talking about those 6 USB ports and built-in wifi etc. etc. he was reminding us that it would likely be quite expensive.

Because that6 is $200 more expensive than PS2 and every system that has come out at $500 has been an abysmal failure to say the least. Even with inflation, there's no reason - looking at what PS2 and PS3 are doing for their respective periods, that PS3 would effectively cost $200 more.

For all we know, Kuturagi telling us things like "no household will be able to afford this" (come on) is simply PR spinning to get peoples expectations for a high price point, and surprise them with something that'll make them go "well actually that's a really great deal." They basically did the same thing with every other system. Remember Kuturagi said Playstation 1 could go for about $900? Remember every analyst on the planet oh so sure PSP would be over $500? Same for PS2

It's a repeated cycle Sony has done before and everyone falls for it time and time again

 

[Razoric]

WORLD EXPLODE

Seriously, if Sony can pull this off it's a victory in every sense of the word.

If Sony pulls it off it'll be the greatest bait and switch in the history of video gaming.

"omg there is so much tech in that system it'll be $600 minimum"

"holy crap with CELL, Blu Ray, etc you Sonybots will be paying out the ass!! hahaha"

Sony: "$399 w/ HDD"

:lol

 

[Ranger X]

399$ price speculation is here since a very long time. Personally that's the price i believe in.
Sony leads the market right now, they are the ones who can risk crazy prices because chances are they will recover later quite easily if it secures them the lead again.
Also, they come up second, they have to get customers and kill the interest for the 360.
And finally, no console ever sold well over 399$ and it probably won't happen soon. Really, 399 is a limit price in my point of view.

 

[Suikoguy]

I'm pretty sure PSX Games will have to be emulated, so they should have the biggest improvement options.

Depending on what route sony takes for PS2 compatiblity, will decide what improvements PS2 games can have.

 

[Confidence Man]

And Killzone trailer was running in realtime at 5fps.

 

[Mrbob]

So we are getting a high end CPU a high end GPU a blu ray player a double HDMI output and a 60 gigd 2.5 inch HDD for just 399$?

Yujuuuuu!!

Yeah, it is one hell of a package. Make it happen Sony.


You know how Sony will get away with a low NA price.....gouge the Europeans. SCEA announces PS3 NA price of $399.99, everyone goes YAY. Then the next day SCEE announces launch price of 499 Euros.

 

[7Th]

And why may i ask? If Kill Zone, Tekken and dare i say, MGS 4 don't impress or are just as good, if not worse than say, Ghost Recon, DOA 4, and Splinter Cell...why would it win outright
?! Especially if the price point is going to be around 500. I see maybe a long battle potentailly ending with a Sony win, only becuase of the drones.

DCX

Remark the "If true..." and then comment please. It ending up in reality will place the PS3 at a price point of 400 with HDD included, nothing can compete with that.