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[Dukey]

If you agree with the statement that the majority of vocal fans are "hateful, maladjusted people," I wonder why you would be on GAF?

Personally, I've found WONDERFUL people on GAF. Even some of the folks that I've gotten into huge debates with over the years.

What does GAF have to do with it? She's clearly referring to Twitter, youtube comments etc. Not moderated forums. Although forums, even this one, are rife with the same people polluting youtube comments, twitter, and twitch chats. It's fucking embarrassing the way a lot of people are acting.

To be honest, Ryse is looking really fucking good, Damn, I wish Sony had something like that for launch.

A pretty game that plays poorly? They have Knack.

 

[Valnen]

The other Sessler thread is full of valid criticism.

No it isn't. It's full of hateful stupid bullshit and false accusations.

 

[fuzzyreactor]

To be honest, Ryse is looking really fucking good, Damn, I wish Sony had something like that for launch.

Well knack looks to have about as much depth in the combat system. Though it actually looks harder than Ryse

 

[ThisWreckage]

A huge part of the industry seems to be infuriated that people are not just passively swallowing PR buzzwords, unreal FUD, and obvious double standards.

We are so maladjusted and hateful we need to be reminded every other tweet, opinion piece or interview.

They hate us, but they want our clicks. Maybe they should tone down the constant insults against their customers.

While I agree that some responses are extreme or seem even hateful, after days and days of various journalists downplaying or hiding issues, insulting the intelligence of their readers, outright insulting them for calling out obvious cases of bias, seeing the same PR-talk over and over again trying to defy reality, having to deal with waves of shills in various gaming sites (well the mods dealt with that here, but they're more than active elsewhere), etc, etc, I can more easily justify the 'hateful' and angry responses than the continuing condescending outbursts of angst and holier than thou attitude by some 'journalists'.

You're right and this is very simple: every time GAF points out hypocrisy, double talk, downplaying, double standards, etc. the gaming press gets more and more irritated because that means they actually have to start doing their job.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

I would agree with this.


This thread is, in my opinion, proving their point.

There's been tons of well-reasoned arguments in those threads.

It's good to know that any effort to construct a well-reasoned argument is just going to bounce off of some people so that less people waste their time.

 

[Mondy]

What does GAF have to do with it? She's clearly referring to Twitter, youtube comments etc. Not moderated forums. Although forums, event this one, are rife with the same people polluting youtube comments, twitter, and twitch chats. It's fucking embarrassing the way a lot of people are acting.



A pretty game that plays poorly? They have Knack.

You don't know that, unless you've been in front of a PS4 kiosk. We know Ryse has shitty gameplay because it's QTE.

 

[K' Dash]

A pretty game that plays poorly? They have Knack.

You have to be kidding me if you think Knack looks pretty, I'll reserve the gameplay criticism for after I play it.

Well knack looks to have about as much depth in the combat system. Though it actually looks harder than Ryse

From what I can see in the videos, I agree with you.

 

[Dukey]

You don't know that, unless you've been in front of a PS4 kiosk. We know Ryse has shitty gameplay because it's QTE.

I've played Knack. Go to your local Sony store and you can play it too.

You have to be kidding me if you think Knack looks pretty, I'll reserve the gameplay criticism for after I play it.

It's got a lot of nice effects. Stuff you wouldnt get on current gen.

 

[FunkyPajamas]

I would agree with this.


This thread is, in my opinion, proving their point.

You're saying that you've read all the posts in this thread and there are no valid criticisms, only hate and vitriol? Is that what you're saying?

 

[CB3]

I dont follow Rev3 games a ton. Do they have a big fan base?

 

[LordJim]

No it isn't. It's full of hateful stupid bullshit and false accusations.

Of course it is.

 

[dreamfall]

A huge part of the industry seems to be infuriated that people are not just passively swallowing PR buzzwords, unreal FUD, and obvious double standards.

We are so maladjusted and hateful we need to be reminded every other tweet, opinion piece or interview.

They hate us, but they want our clicks. Maybe they should tone down the constant insults against their customers.

While I agree that some responses are extreme or seem even hateful, after days and days of various journalists downplaying or hiding issues, insulting the intelligence of their readers, outright insulting them for calling out obvious cases of bias, seeing the same PR-talk over and over again trying to defy reality, having to deal with waves of shills in various gaming sites (well the mods dealt with that here, but they're more than active elsewhere), etc, etc, I can more easily justify the 'hateful' and angry responses than the continuing condescending outbursts of angst and holier than thou attitude by some 'journalists'.

Exactly this.

I like Tara. I like Adam. I do believe that the amount of hyperbolic vitriol that gets spewed at them daily is probably insufferable, and frankly pretty embarrassing. I'd like to think that GAF was better at not dishing more shit their way.

But the problem brewing here is so much greater than just game journalists getting attacked. Nobody seems to be taking a harder line to ask questions that are more worrisome; there's little credibility regarding any sort of videogame press. And it's not some crazy conspiracy theory that maybe some of these videos/interviews/articles look like paid advertisements for one company.

The DRM defenders were ridiculous. The dismissive "oh it's ResolutionGate" seems to downplay actual problems that might loom ahead. And when these members of the game press get defensive about people being validly upset with some of their work (contradicting themselves, putting out fluff), it turns into a blame game on all of gamers.

I don't like the snark. I'm excited about next-gen, much like the next GAF member. I'm not on some corporation's side to win the next bloody console war. But I'd like to see some things change with the way controversy comes up concerning videogames and how journalists respond to it.

 

[Marleyman]

You're right and this is very simple: every time GAF points out hypocrisy, double talk, downplaying, double standards, etc. the gaming press gets more and more irritated because that means they actually have to start doing their job.

You should start your own enterprise pointing out how bad the gaming press is..it would be a hit.

 

[andycapps]

Or that Venture beat interview is also pretty good.


Its amazing the differences in interviews we see from dedicated games press versus outlets that cover a lot of subjects and also games.

The non dedicated gaming outlets are doing such a better job right now its crazy.

The problem is that the gaming news media is struggling desperately to survive. Much of their advertising dollars come from the developers, publishers, or platform holders that they're critiquing. For some of these people to ask tough questions, they may be seeing it as asking tough questions that could lead to them eventually getting a smaller paycheck or not having a job. It's much easier and less threatening to one's personal survival to ask a question like, "So what kind of titles do you have coming out at launch?" or "What were you able to do this time around that you couldn't do on previous consoles?"

And honestly, I think a lot of them have probably never written in an industry that asks tough questions so they may have a hard time removing themselves from being a gamer to being an impartial writer/observer. I think there are some exceptions like Patrick Klepek and the Giant Bomb crew, and others that I'm forgetting off the top of my head. Just as the gaming industry is still in it's relative infancy, game writing is still definitely in it's infancy.

 

[Mondy]

I dont follow Rev3 games a ton. Do they have a big fan base?

Not really. They're not even as big as Escapist, but they've gotten bigger since Sessler arrived.

 

[Curufinwe]

No it isn't. It's full of hateful stupid bullshit and false accusations.

No, it's full of people pointing out Sessler's pattern of dishonesty going all the way back to E3.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

I like Tara. I like Adam. I do believe that the amount of hyperbolic vitriol that gets spewed at them daily is probably insufferable, and frankly pretty embarrassing.

Easy solution -- don't be on twitter.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Probably because he wants to not be homeless in the future? Everyone that would even watch his videos already knows about the power difference.

So you're saying that games journalists are bought and paid for by the industry, and if they do any actual journalism, they'll be out of jobs?

I'm not saying that this is the case, but that's what your apologism is implying.

 

[mentallyinept]

You don't know that, unless you've been in front of a PS4 kiosk. We know Ryse has shitty gameplay because it's QTE.

Edit: ERM... I think I screwed this one up... removing

 

[VibratingDonkey]

I get that it must be frustrating constantly getting nagged by loud, whiny insulty people for 10+ years, but that being the case, shouldn't he know how to handle this stupid aspect of being a known personality person on the internet?
Making blanket insults that could be interpreted as being targeted at your entire audience, is certainly a mistake.

This whole thing continues spiraling in the wrong direction. Everyone needs to calm down and stop acting stupid.

If people didn't immediately go yell "you're a hypocrite look at this video you MS biased pecker!" or whatnot, and instead just tried starting a normal conversation with the guy, leaving feedback, criticism and questions in a civil manner, maybe we would've actually gotten somewhere.

 

[Zombie James]

A huge part of the industry seems to be infuriated that people are not just passively swallowing PR buzzwords, unreal FUD, and obvious double standards.

We are so maladjusted and hateful we need to be reminded every other tweet, opinion piece or interview.

They hate us, but they want our clicks. Maybe they should tone down the constant insults against their customers.

While I agree that some responses are extreme or seem even hateful, after days and days of various journalists downplaying or hiding issues, insulting the intelligence of their readers, outright insulting them for calling out obvious cases of bias, seeing the same PR-talk over and over again trying to defy reality, having to deal with waves of shills in various gaming sites (well the mods dealt with that here, but they're more than active elsewhere), etc, etc, I can more easily justify the 'hateful' and angry responses than the continuing condescending outbursts of angst and holier than thou attitude by some 'journalists'.

 

[PBY]

You're saying that you've read all the posts in this thread and there are no valid criticisms, only hate and vitriol? Is that what you're saying?

Of course not. There's just an overwhelming mob and pitchfork mentality that drowns out rationality.

The way I see it- Sessler's job is to set forth his opinions. You can like them, disagree with them, go nuts and meltdown online in reaction to them etc, etc. But look across other mediums, where do you see criticism dissected in the way this poor man's opinion has been- and by that I mean hitting him with "MS BIASED!," calling him a shill, making up all sorts of crazy conspiracies. No ones pausing and saying- hrm, maybe he actually just feels this way, considering he's not the only one in the media that has voiced opinions like this. No one's stopping to think- hrmm, Sess is only one guy, maybe lets not make proclamations about "gaming journalism" based off one man's thoughts.

 

[K' Dash]

I've played Knack. Go to your local Sony store and you can play it too.



It's got a lot of nice effects. Stuff you wouldnt get on current gen.

Well it does, but comparing it to Ryse is kinda silly, and in my humble opinion Ratchet and Clank not only looks better, but plays better, from what I have seen in the gameplay videos.

 

[Valnen]

No, it's full of people pointing out Sessler's pattern of dishonesty going all the way back to E3.

You can think that. I'm not going to bother trying to correct your thinking.

So you're saying that games journalists are bought and paid for by the industry, and if they do any actual journalism, they'll be out of jobs?

I'm not saying that this is the case, but that's what your apologism is implying.

Nope. That's not what I'm saying. But I'm not going to bother talking with someone who's so willing to put words in my mouth, like they do with anyone they disagree with.

 

[Teletraan1]

Sess has really fallen. I used to enjoy his rambling but now that he seems to be above addressing the obvious flip flop that he did regarding the whole resolution story and is getting really aggressive on twitter towards his audience I just cant take anything he says seriously anymore. You cant hide from the internet when you put out all your thoughts on the internet. If he had fessed up to a change of heart or whatever and just said plainly that he was excited for whatever was coming out on the xb1 and resolution while disappointing wasn't going to deter him from playing those games because honestly what can anyone do at this point. All of this bitching isn't going to unlock better specs. I would have accepted that. Instead the guy goes rogue on twitter insulting everyone who disagrees with his wishy washy stance. I think this guy has some serious issues based on how he has handled this whole launch and I hope he gets things sorted out or moves on to something he would be happier doing.

 

[Gonff]

This industry sure is embarrassing all right. But we're certainly not the ones at fault this time.

Yeah we are. 100%.

Every positive XB1 thread: "Obviously it would work that way. Nothing important"
Every positive Sony thread: "Greatest feature of all time" (Best example - the Killzone thread where it was revealed there would be no labels before the menu. Which has been done on the 3DS and Wii U for 90% of its games)

Every negative XB1 rumor: "lol Microsoft. Resolution resolution resolution, worst company ever, blah blah
Every negative Sony rumor: "Can't be true. I won't believe it without a source."

Every Nintendo thread period: "Fire Iwata and Reggie, relaunch Wii U in 6 months as Wii2 with no Gamepad and beefier specs"

In the last 6 months, between the couple of forums I frequent, I have been re-evaluating whether or not I want to continue on my career path of being a dev in this industry. If it involves dealing with the people I've seen in that period, I think it's time for me to go back to web and app development.

 

[Curufinwe]

You can think that. I'm not going to bother trying to correct your thinking.

You can't correct the facts of what Sessler has done this year. You just have to get over the denial stage.

 

[Mondy]

The previews are starting to pour in and they don't paint a pretty picture:

GameInformer
Joystiq

I know, I've seen them. And it isn't surprising in the slightest. Ryse is a massive missed opportunity, in my opinion. The gameplay should have been more like God of War.

 

[Amentallica]

Wow at The negativity on this thread. No one even noticed or talked the new glimpses of Ryse. Looks amazing. Great interview.

Great interview...

*sigh*

 

[kaskade]

I feel like the games press is pretty much PR these days. My internet isn't the best at work so I'm just going by what I gathered from the interview in this thread, they never really ask any hard hitting questions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTZPlM58x3Q There's a video of Anderson Cooper interviewing someone. "This is the way it works in journalism. When you're not on Fox News, you get contentious interviews. When you're not on MSNBC and a liberal, you get contentious interviews. My job is to ask you questions that are different than you think."

When they interview guys like this I feel like they just set up for some PR answer.

 

[mentallyinept]

I know, I've seen them. And it isn't surprising in the slightest. Ryse is a massive missed opportunity, in my opinion. The gameplay should have been more like God of War.

Yeah, I jumped the gun on you there... I removed my post. Sorry about that.

 

[Marleyman]

Yeah we are. 100%.

.

 

[njean777]

The problem is that the gaming news media is struggling desperately to survive. Much of their advertising dollars come from the developers, publishers, or platform holders that they're critiquing. For some of these people to ask tough questions, they may be seeing it as asking tough questions that could lead to them eventually getting a smaller paycheck or not having a job. It's much easier and less threatening to one's personal survival to ask a question like, "So what kind of titles do you have coming out at launch?" or "What were you able to do this time around that you couldn't do on previous consoles?"

And honestly, I think a lot of them have probably never written in an industry that asks tough questions so they may have a hard time removing themselves from being a gamer to being an impartial writer/observer. I think there are some exceptions like Patrick Klepek and the Giant Bomb crew, and others that I'm forgetting off the top of my head. Just as the gaming industry is still in it's relative infancy, game writing is still definitely in it's infancy.

I think the biggest difference between GB and the rest is that GB knows that this stuff is all stupid and acts as such. To the point were they barely ever talk about the politics of games. They stay out of the arena of controversy most of the time and are way better off for it. They say their opinion and they go on without insulting their fanbase on twitter. Only one that gets a little defensive is Brad, but his dulcet tones calm me from arguing with him.

 

[UberTag]

Umm, why is Sessler attacking the people that put food on his table?

That's not us and it's never been us.

The people that put food on his table are Microsoft and Sony and the big Western third-party publishers and Rev3Games sponsors (i.e. Audible, Netflix, etc.)

Those are the people he is accountable to and pay his salary.

Adam is an unabashed PR spokesman. And so long as you consider him a shill and nothing but a shill you will appreciate him for being quite excellent at what he does.

Just don't expect him to be a journalist. A reporter. Unbiased. Or accountable to us.

 

[Valnen]

You can't correct the facts of what Sessler has done this year. You just have to get over the denial stage.

And you have to stop being hateful to people that don't deserve it. It's bad for you and makes you look bad. All you're doing is proving Sessler's point.

 

[Mondy]

Yeah, I jumped the gun on you there... I removed my post. Sorry about that.

Lol you thought I was defending Ryse? That game is a Xbone exclusive.

 

[K' Dash]

I’m hoping that later levels introduce some more difficult enemies, as the dozens of encounters I had consisted of all the complexity of dialing phone numbers.

Holy shit, it seems Ryse was polished to be a looker and nothing more.

Shame.

 

[ThisWreckage]

Yeah we are. 100%.

Every positive XB1 thread: "Obviously it would work that way. Nothing important"
Every positive Sony thread: "Greatest feature of all time" (Best example - the Killzone thread where it was revealed there would be no labels before the menu. Which has been done on the 3DS and Wii U for 90% of its games)

Every negative XB1 rumor: "lol Microsoft. Resolution resolution resolution, worst company ever, blah blah
Every negative Sony rumor: "Can't be true. I won't believe it without a source."

Every Nintendo thread period: "Fire Iwata and Reggie, relaunch Wii U in 6 months as Wii2 with no Gamepad and beefier specs"

In the last 6 months, between the couple of forums I frequent, I have been re-evaluating whether or not I want to continue on my career path of being a dev in this industry. If it involves dealing with the people I've seen in that period, I think it's time for me to go back to web and app development.

If you can't take criticism and the opinions of others I would recommend you get out of development on the whole.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

Yeah we are. 100%.

Every positive XB1 thread: "Obviously it would work that way. Nothing important"
Every positive Sony thread: "Greatest feature of all time" (Best example - the Killzone thread where it was revealed there would be no labels before the menu. Which has been done on the 3DS and Wii U for 90% of its games)

Every negative XB1 rumor: "lol Microsoft. Resolution resolution resolution, worst company ever, blah blah
Every negative Sony rumor: "Can't be true. I won't believe it without a source."

Every Nintendo thread period: "Fire Iwata and Reggie, relaunch Wii U in 6 months as Wii2 with no Gamepad and beefier specs"

In the last 6 months, between the couple of forums I frequent, I have been re-evaluating whether or not I want to continue on my career path of being a dev in this industry. If it involves dealing with the people I've seen in that period, I think it's time for me to go back to web and app development.

Wow. More massive generalization.

 

[Copenap]

At least we now know that the internet doesn't only offer blind hate but also blind love.
Edit: There it is again, Balance

 

[PBY]

Lol you thought I was defending Ryse? That game is a Xbone exclusive.

wow

 

[Cow Goes Moo]

Generalization central

Spoiler

/vague statement]

 

[PsychoSoldier]

Of course not. There's just an overwhelming mob and pitchfork mentality that drowns out rationality.

The way I see it- Sessler's job is to set forth his opinions. You can like them, disagree with them, go nuts and meltdown online in reaction to them etc, etc. But look across other mediums, where do you see criticism dissected in the way this poor man's opinion has been- and by that I mean hitting him with "MS BIASED!," calling him a shill, making up all sorts of crazy conspiracies. No ones pausing and saying- hrm, maybe he actually just feels this way, considering he's not the only one in the media that has voiced opinions like this. No one's stopping to think- hrmm, Sess is only one guy, maybe lets not make proclamations about "gaming journalism" based off one man's thoughts.

It must be nice to mash a huge number of posters whose opinions vary widely, take the worst parts of the arguments and mash them into one Frankensteinian monster that you can then summarily dismiss without having to actually argue with.

Your characterization doesn't fit everyone in this thread or in that thread.

 

[Marleyman]

Lol you thought I was defending Ryse? That game is a Xbone exclusive.

You laughed because you thought someone thought you were defending Ryse. Are you saying that you would never defend a game on Xbox One because it is on Xbox One?

 

[Curufinwe]

And you have to stop being hateful to people that don't deserve it. It's bad for you and makes you look bad. All you're doing is proving Sessler's point.

Quote the post where I was being hateful.

 

[Bundy]

Sony didn't send him a pre-launch ps4 and instead wanted the media to fly out to NY for a controlled first party launch event. That's it. He was going to have to buy a ps4 on launch day and that was what had him contemplating leaving the industry. The latest Jimquisition really rips into him and guys like Gies over their childish twitter antics. You should watch it.


Spencer is in PR. His job is to bullshit things and spin them into as positive a light as possible, not be transparent. That would normally be the interviewers job if journalism in games actually existed.

Do you have a link?

 

[Dukey]

You can't correct the facts of what Sessler has done this year. You just have to get over the denial stage.

Perhaps if these people attempting to "correct" Sessler acted like adults instead of petulant little children, he'd engage them in a proper conversation. The gaming community is polluted right now. You can't start an Xbox thread even here on GAF without the first 1-3 pages being polluted by idiotic memes, drive-by shitting, and stupid gifs. Why this continues to be allowed is beyond me, but since it's allowed it's going to continue, and discourse is going to continue to be awful.

 

[Mondy]

wow

You laughed because you thought someone thought you were defending Ryse. Are you saying that you would never defend a game on Xbox One because it is on Xbox One?

Read the string of posts again.

He thought I said you can't know Ryse plays shitty unless you have been in front of a PS4 kiosk. Of course, that isn't possible. I was referring to Knack.

 

[silver.tongue]

A pretty game that plays poorly? They have Knack.

If the previews are right it's actually the opposite.
Knack looks just okay but plays just like a 3D plataform should while also beeing really hard on higher difficulties.

 

[FStop7]

Yeah we are. 100%.

Every positive XB1 thread: "Obviously it would work that way. Nothing important"
Every positive Sony thread: "Greatest feature of all time" (Best example - the Killzone thread where it was revealed there would be no labels before the menu. Which has been done on the 3DS and Wii U for 90% of its games)

Every negative XB1 rumor: "lol Microsoft. Resolution resolution resolution, worst company ever, blah blah
Every negative Sony rumor: "Can't be true. I won't believe it without a source."

Every Nintendo thread period: "Fire Iwata and Reggie, relaunch Wii U in 6 months as Wii2 with no Gamepad and beefier specs"

In the last 6 months, between the couple of forums I frequent, I have been re-evaluating whether or not I want to continue on my career path of being a dev in this industry. If it involves dealing with the people I've seen in that period, I think it's time for me to go back to web and app development.

A+++ would meltdown again.