• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

New Super Mario's only problem is it's music.

The soundtrack isn't the only problem. The world and stage themes are boring too.
Yeah, I love Sunshine and Galaxy games because it focuses mostly on one theme to the fullest. The music recycling is bad, but the level theme recycling is the worst! Justs top with the same shitty grass, underground, sky, desert, mountain, lava, water, mansion, and ice worlds! PLEASE ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! And now its infected 3D Mario games aswell with the same themes over...and over...and over again.

Stuff like that Japanese themed level or even the Mario Kart themed level in 3D World was such a breath of fresh air. Can you imagine a 3D Mario game based entirely of platforming on various mario kart tracks? Atleast those would look different.

I still have loads of fun with them, but they are boring to look at. Sunshine and Galaxy built its game on a specific them, and it still had the oher themes of course, but it looks vastly different to anything before it. Now its all the same on 2D and 3D Mario games and I'm just sick of the same style look over and over again.

At this point creating a 8 bit sprite 2D game would be a revolutionary step forward. Make a 2D or 3D Yarn Mario game, Paper Mario style proper platformer unlike the hybrid SPM, a game based only in Bowser's Castle...please...just anything different...if you include NSLU, which I do since its basically 80+ new levels, there was 3 NSMB games with the same styles in less than 12 months. Enough is enough.
 
It's a big problem but not the only one. The graphics and physics need work too.
 
It's not really much different than Mario Bros 3 where you'd hop around to different themes with no transition.

But in Super Mario Bros. 3 you had:

- catchy music in every world (imo)
- the mini games were more fun (imo)
- pipes, which allowed you to warp within the world
- you could sail on a boat in world 3 and destroy rocks with a hammer to open new paths.
- you had interesting themes like Giant World or Pipe World

And you had all this stuff in 1990.
 
Also, Nintendo needs to look at its competition in the 2D platforming space.

Super Meat Boy
Rayman Legends
Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze

There is a ton of room for improving on NSMB, artistically, design wise, music wise. There is plenty of innovation left in the 2d platforming space. There is no reason to endlessly reiterate SMB 3's formula.

I would love to see the Galaxy/Galaxy 2 teams take a stab at a fresh 2D Mario.
 
Also, Nintendo needs to look at its competition in the 2D platforming space.

Super Meat Boy
Rayman Legends
Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze

There is a ton of room for improving on NSMB, artistically, design wise, music wise. There is plenty of innovation left in the 2d platforming space. There is no reason to endlessly reiterate SMB 3's formula.

I would love to see the Galaxy/Galaxy 2 teams take a stab at a fresh 2D Mario.
I think Nintendo already looked at those games quite a lot, considering it developed and published them.
 
Soundtrack sucks and is overly derivative and the visuals are often uninspired, bland, and reused throughout the game. Otherwise great games!
 
Nah, the gameplay itself is pretty dull and uninteresting.

This nailed it for me. NSMB games are just dull at this point. They're all essentially the same, and beside the graphic updates they're all carbon copies of each other. I'd much rather play the Rayman games, much more creative and fun to play
 
Soundtrack is garbage, aesthetic is ugly (or bland at best), and the physics are a bit too floaty for my liking.

Besides that, fun games.
 
The music sounds like a parody of a Mario game instead of actual music in a Mario game.

So annoying and sounds very low budget.
 
I love the NSMB music, my problem is that the gameplay feels like it was a sequel to the first Mario game, instead of a sequel to all the 2D Mario games that have been released since then. The art is lame as well.
 
I totally agree, and the visuals aren't outstanding either.

Level design-wise New Super Mario Bros. U is unrivaled in the 2D series.

I agree with the music, and visuals could get some more variety, even though I think they are pretty appealing.

But I must insist that NSMB Wii had outstanding level design too.
 
Also, Nintendo needs to look at its competition in the 2D platforming space.

Super Meat Boy
Rayman Legends
Donkey Kong Country Returns and Tropical Freeze

Looking at trash like Rayman just because the graphics are nice, is the last thing they should do. I also really disliked a lot of the design decisions in Super Meat Boy, and I am not sure what they can learn from that. From DK they can learn to make include better music. Like OP stated, so I agree with that.
 
Looking at trash like Rayman just because the graphics are nice, is the last thing they should do. I also really disliked a lot of the design decisions in Super Meat Boy, and I am not sure what they can learn from that. From DK they can learn to make include better music. Like OP stated, so I agree with that.
Also exciting difficult platforming. The K worlds in Donkey Kong are a blast to play because they constantly put pressure on you.

And Super Meat Boy is a great game design-wise. They could learn from its fast respawn system and lack of a life system, which stops the game from being tedious even when it gets difficult.
 
I agree, they all sound too relaxed. SMW had a much wider range. I still liked how they played though. Even NSMB2, it is the only 2d Mario with true flight since SMW and I like the verticality of most of the levels.
 
I found that the new melodies composed for NSMB U were excellent and a lot more catchy and original than the music for the NSMB series to that point. The only mistake was in reusing too many existing tracks along with the new music.

However, it may be telling that after NSMB U Nintendo has done a sudden about-face on music in general. Even Nintendo Land had an excellent music budget with tons of high quality compositions of famous and highly desirable Nintendo songs.

It seems from Nintendo Land onward they're making full use of their in-house recording studio and live musicians on Wii U games.
 
Special mention must be given to NSMB2 for taking the existing NSMB Wii tracks and instead of taking this opportunity to improve the sound quality of the themes decided that time was better spent inserting BAHS where there were no BAHS before like that was just what the music needed, now you can BAH in your castles as well.

At one point some brave visionary must've asked the question on everyone's mind, "what if we took an entire track and made it entirely BAH?", it wasn't easy but somehow they did it and the new Athletic theme was born.

One last note, the Ghost House music is bloody awful, I can actually deal with the rest but not that goofy arse ghost house track.
 
I love the NSMB music, my problem is that the gameplay feels like it was a sequel to the first Mario game, instead of a sequel to all the 2D Mario games that have been released since then. The art is lame as well.


Wha...? The gameplay is most similar to SMB3 with elements of SMW. They put more of an emphasis on platforming like SMB3 but with some adventure elements like hidden exits and things to collect like in SMW. Then on top of that they added new elements like wall jumping and ground pounding and new dynamic level elements. It's every bit a continuation of where SMB3 and SMW left off. SMW's design is way more like SMB1 than NSMB's.
 
Yeah, the music is only a small part of the problem. Aesthetically the games lack any sort of unique identity and just blend together into one big pile of blandness.
 
The music REALLY lets these games down. The one for Wii U is the best 2D Mario game ever as far as gameplay and design goes, but the aesthetics leave something to be desired, especially the music.
 
I love NSMBU's music. The main theme (first stage) is unbelievably catchy, just a perfect Mario-tune. Sure, I'd prefer that some of the songs were not re-used from earlier games, but for me that doesn't matter at all for the overall quality of the game. 99% of Mario games are about gameplay, controls and level-design, and I wouldn't have it any other way.
 
What you've just described is 2D Mario.

They've hit a point where the technology allows their characters to look like their artwork. The world themes have remained the same across games, but Mario never really had more variety. SMB3 started the idea of themed worlds and then SMW pretty much threw that out the window in favor of SMB1 and 2's tropes. NSMB just brought it back. At least they put a lot of care into each and every world and level so that they are full of unique things and new ideas. Also, while they have pretty much standardized the art style, there are still significant differences between games and the backgrounds are never recycled. Level design has changed significantly from game to game, with NSMBWii and NSMBU sporting easily the best level design of 2D Mario. Gameplay has remained fairly stable across the board, with each new game adding new moves or mechanics. The most substantial change was SMB3 allowing the screen to scroll in more than one direction, as that opened up level design possibilities significantly. NSMB introduced new series staples like mini mushrooms that allow you to run up walls and across water and mega mushrooms that make you enormous for a short time. Also, being the first NSMB, it introduced many of new things that are taken for granted like rotating and moving level elements that would not be possible in previous games due to hardware limitations. NSMBWii introduced multiplayer and a jump augmenting mid-air spin move. NSMB2 put a heavy focus on collecting coins and getting high scores, which made it pretty different from any other Mario. NSMBU mostly improved upon what NSMBWii did in addition to adding boost blocks and challenge mode. And again, each installment added new elements that weren't feasible in previous installments. The amount and density of dynamic level elements increased greatly with each new game.

You are right my friend. Unfortunately, even on GAF, a substantial amount of people don't like to have to think too hard about subtler mechanics.
 
I think Nintendo's music has gone downhill across the board, except for the SMG series and kinda SS.

I'll go to YouTube and look up all sorts of classic tracks from the NES to GC eras, but there's not much from Wii onwards that keeps me coming back in the same way.

It's a shame. Music can be a huge draw for me. =(
 
I think people are grossly exaggerating what Nintendo tries to do with the NSMB series. The games are simple throwbacks to classic Mario games, but with a modern polish and some new mechanics like multiplayer since Wii and fun items. It doesn't try to innovate or be different. I don't think it has to, it's not what the game sets out to do. It's still fun and challenging, but that's it. People can enjoy the classic Mario gameplay on every platform specifically optimized for that platform and that's a great thing.
 
They could add new kinds of worlds which arent the normal ice/fields/desert/etc. Newer Super Mario bros (the mod) takes the art style but does so much more with it than what nintendo has with the mainline titles. It'd be more interesting if they went to different kinds of landscapes, maybe even a ghost world? Also, the ghost levels are good examples of where the art style can be used to make something super interesting.
 
I think people are grossly exaggerating what Nintendo tries to do with the NSMB series. The games are simple throwbacks to classic Mario games, but with a modern polish and some new mechanics like multiplayer since Wii and fun items. It doesn't try to innovate or be different. I don't think it has to, it's not what the game sets out to do. It's still fun and challenging, but that's it. People can enjoy the classic Mario gameplay on every platform specifically optimized for that platform and that's a great thing.

I kind of agree, but following that logic I think it would have worked better as a launch bundle title rather than a standalone 60 dollar game. Not enough has really changed between NSMB DS and NSMB Wii U to warrant full price every single time. Compare the evolution of this line of Mario games to the original four Mario games (SMB1 -> SMW). Literally a world of difference.
 
It's a good game, and a typically polished EAD Tokyo experience, but I wouldn't call the music its only problem. It's thematically inconsistent, with world themes that don't really matter much when it comes to the content of the levels within them. You're just as likely to get a jungle or lava stage on an early world as a late one for example, and it skips back and forth without any real effort to create a cohesive progression from environment to environment.

The level design, although tightly crafted, also tends to be utilitarian to a fault, without many interesting nooks and crannies or little idiosyncrasies that offer more than what you see at face value. The level themes themselves are also well worn at this point, and although there's some novelty to being the first 3D Mario in HD nothing leaps forward from a visual design standpoint to separate it from the past decade of similarly themed Mario titles.

Also, like most recent Mario games the difficulty curve plateaus and remains flat after a few worlds with the exception of overcompensating with an artificial spike in the end game. I also find the need to replay each level by rote with all the characters to 100% the game obnoxious, just like playing through 3D Land with Luigi came across as unnecessary filler. Each character has certain strengths, but aside from forcing the player to use specific characters to complete a handful of challenges their abilities are never fully exploited to make repeat play throughs of the same stages a unique experience.

It's in no way shape or form a bad game. It's the sort of exceptional platformer I've come to expect from the dev team, but not a stone cold classic because it never really surprises or transcends the sum of its individual parts. It's comes across as a sort of "best of" Mario game, polished to a T, but somehow missing the real "best" of the series, which is a sense of discovery and awe.
 
Didn't really care for it since I played all of the other iterations, so I ended up trading it (with Luigi) for Bayonetta 2. Will never look back.
 
I mean, yeah the soundtrack is recycled but I really like it. Heck, most of the games are similar enough to considered "recycled". So who cares
 
The artstyle also needs a big improvement. 3D world and galaxy are lightyears ahead of the very plastic looking world and characters of the new series.

Could also do with a shake up in environments, world themes and platforming.

Other than that its fun.
 
The Wii one has some good tracks, but Wii U reuses too much. The soundtrack is definitely the weekend point of the series, that and a very safe art style.
 
What you've just described is 2D Mario.

(lots of images)

They've hit a point where the technology allows their characters to look like their artwork. The world themes have remained the same across games, but Mario never really had more variety. SMB3 started the idea of themed worlds and then SMW pretty much threw that out the window in favor of SMB1 and 2's tropes. NSMB just brought it back. At least they put a lot of care into each and every world and level so that they are full of unique things and new ideas. Also, while they have pretty much standardized the art style, there are still significant differences between games and the backgrounds are never recycled. Level design has changed significantly from game to game, with NSMBWii and NSMBU sporting easily the best level design of 2D Mario. Gameplay has remained fairly stable across the board, with each new game adding new moves or mechanics. The most substantial change was SMB3 allowing the screen to scroll in more than one direction, as that opened up level design possibilities significantly. NSMB introduced new series staples like mini mushrooms that allow you to run up walls and across water and mega mushrooms that make you enormous for a short time. Also, being the first NSMB, it introduced many of new things that are taken for granted like rotating and moving level elements that would not be possible in previous games due to hardware limitations. NSMBWii introduced multiplayer and a jump augmenting mid-air spin move. NSMB2 put a heavy focus on collecting coins and getting high scores, which made it pretty different from any other Mario. NSMBU mostly improved upon what NSMBWii did in addition to adding boost blocks and challenge mode. And again, each installment added new elements that weren't feasible in previous installments. The amount and density of dynamic level elements increased greatly with each new game.

Except that in your example, NSMB Wii and NSMB2 are almost using the exact same textures for the grass. NSMB1 and NSMB Wii also share a very similar wavy-line pattern for dirt. It's not 100% exact, but it's definitely close enough. Gameplay concepts aside, they don't look very interesting visually. A friend once described it as "that generic Mario Party look."

If you removed the HUD, I would argue most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an HD emulator shot of NSMB Wii and NSMB U.

Meanwhile, go play Super Mario All-Stars. All four Mario games in that were brought up to the same baseline visual fidelity, and you can very easily tell them apart:

aKhRIOd.png
TMWW0HQ.png
rDq9JqK.png
8xQtsTk.png


Versus...

ofAfPGR.png

lDXJJ1T.png


One screenshot is from a game released in 2009, the other is from a game released in 2012. Can you tell which is which? Mario is using the same animations, maybe even the same character model. For reference, SMB3 was 1988 and SMW was 1990 - only two years separating them, and a noticeable change in art style.

And furthermore, you don't have this problem with the 3D Marios. Sunshine, Galaxy, and 3D World all appear distinct, even though by that point, Nintendo had established and locked down Mario's "visual identity".

That being said, NSMB U does seem to at least try to do more interesting things with its visuals compared to past entries, but its roots as a bland-looking NSMB game are still pretty obvious.

But honestly, for me, the problem are the controls. SMB3 and SMW feel a lot tighter than NSMB ever did. People have said NSMB is trying to replicate the controls from SMB1, but I think it's kind of ridiculous to ignore almost a decade's worth of control improvements. That's being retro to the game's detriment and I can't stand it.
 
I kind of agree, but following that logic I think it would have worked better as a launch bundle title rather than a standalone 60 dollar game. Not enough has really changed between NSMB DS and NSMB Wii U to warrant full price every single time. Compare the evolution of this line of Mario games to the original four Mario games (SMB1 -> SMW). Literally a world of difference.

SMB1 - Started it all. Mostly flat levels. No slopes. Can't scroll in any direction except right.
SMB2 - A straight sequel to the first game. Added poison mushrooms and wind. Luigi plays differently.
SMB3 - Big upgrade over the first two games. Added ability to scroll in any direction. Flight powerup. Slopes. Worlds have a variety of distinct themes. Added world maps you navigate and can find secrets on.
SMW - Added Yoshis. Added spin jump. Added secret exits. Ability to throw items up. Regressed to SMB1 and 2 level themes. Worlds for the most part lack cohesive themes. Less level variety than SMB3. Cape completely breaks the game.
NSMB - Replaced spin jump with ground pound. Brought back and increases level variety from SMB3. Added wall jumping. Mini mushrooms allow running and jumping on water.
NSMBWii - Added 4-player multiplayer. Added a spin jump. Added the ability to spin while normal jumping to increase air-time. Motion controls. Ice flower and penguin suit are actually pretty significant new powerups. You can fly the koopa clown car.
NSMB2 - Very different focus than any other Mario game: score based challenge.
NSMBU - Multiplayer now supports up to 5 players. One of the players can set boost blocks for the other players to use. Challenge mode.

And level design and complexity has improved greatly over entries. I'm sure most take for granted improvements like blocks and enemies that move around in strange patterns and large amounts of moving objects on screen at once. I mean, NSMBWii and NSMBU look similar (not really) but their level design is a world apart (and both games are better than the classics), and the jump up from NSMB DS was even bigger.
 
Yeah, I hate the NSMB look. It's so generic looking and has none of the charm of the 2D Marios from the NES/SNES days. I really hope that the kill this franchise and start fresh on a new 2D Mario series with a new art style.

It kind of reminds me of those cheap Korean-made browser games, actually. All surface gloss, no depth.
 
I agree the music is dog turd and is my biggest complaint about the NSMB series, but it's definitely not the only problem...

Uninspiring design choices (world 1 is always plains themed, world 2 desert, world 3 water, etc), overall cheapness of the games and some seriously not fun moments (all those underwater stages where you can't see anything. Does anyone actually find those fun?), too many boring old castle stages too. The list goes on.
 
The music is unremarkable, but serviceable. It's just that they keep recycling the same music for all the games that I hate. Nothing worse than seeing a creative looking painting styled level and just hearing the same tired old ghost house theme in the background. I really liked NSMBWii's castle theme the first time I heard it. I've always considered the first one to have the best music but maybe I'm just not bored of it yet.
 
Top Bottom