XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Next on the classic game remade to FPS list:
Populous
Lemmings
SimCity
Theme Park
The Adventures of Willy Beamish
Populous
Lemmings
SimCity
Theme Park
The Adventures of Willy Beamish
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New Syndicate is probably a damn FPS
- Thread starter StarEye
- Start date
@Zeliard: WTF.. are you mentally ill?
You only quote what you want, without following the whole conversation. Just to check your cognitive capacities, what do you understand from this:
---------------
Part of my first post
What does your mind understand by "all of you with this attitude"? Isn't it clear from the above posts i was talking about people like markot that said they won't play the game even if it's good? If it's good, why not play it? Just because it's a FPS?
Once again: "you simple aren't mature enough to be happy with what you get" was said in the context of what you get being good. If you make me state that one more time, you're on ignore for being too damn stupid to understand. In fact, i think im more stupid than you are, for trying to explain this to you, in a huge post, on a forum (especially since you, like a twat, willingly ingored my 1st topic and the context of that reply - which was people ignoring the game because it's a FPS even if it'll be a good game).
Yes, it is childish. No, i didn't insult anybody. That's my view on the matter; i also explained it to StarEye in my previous post. It's my opinion.
I'm sorry if i sound aggresive, but you're one of those people that would argue and argue and argue, and wouldn't bother to listen to the other side. If you think i insulted someone, fine. I stand by my comments. If you continue with this off-topic madness, i will ignore you, just so you know.
You only quote what you want, without following the whole conversation. Just to check your cognitive capacities, what do you understand from this:
---------------
Part of my first post
Some replies to that particular comment:shuyin_ said:
markot said:
And now the reply you quoted me with:water_wendi said:
-----------shuyin_ said:
What does your mind understand by "all of you with this attitude"? Isn't it clear from the above posts i was talking about people like markot that said they won't play the game even if it's good? If it's good, why not play it? Just because it's a FPS?
Once again: "you simple aren't mature enough to be happy with what you get" was said in the context of what you get being good. If you make me state that one more time, you're on ignore for being too damn stupid to understand. In fact, i think im more stupid than you are, for trying to explain this to you, in a huge post, on a forum (especially since you, like a twat, willingly ingored my 1st topic and the context of that reply - which was people ignoring the game because it's a FPS even if it'll be a good game).
Yes, it is childish. No, i didn't insult anybody. That's my view on the matter; i also explained it to StarEye in my previous post. It's my opinion.
I'm sorry if i sound aggresive, but you're one of those people that would argue and argue and argue, and wouldn't bother to listen to the other side. If you think i insulted someone, fine. I stand by my comments. If you continue with this off-topic madness, i will ignore you, just so you know.
Princess Skittles
Prince's's 'Skittle's
Great, just what we needed (cause you know it's coming), an Ultima FPS. </3
EA is best.
EA is best.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
The key here is that sure, the market changes but there's a good way of doing things and a bad way of doing things.
Bethesda adapts Fallout IP to the modern environment - retains as much as they can from the original IP spirit while still pandering to the market. Result : SUCCESS! Both the company and the gamers are pleased.
EA adapts Syndicate IP to the modern environment - prostitutes the original IP and churns out a me-too on a genre that has left more rotting corpses in its wake than the plague. Probable result: FAILURE! The company loses money and gamers are screwed.
Bethesda adapts Fallout IP to the modern environment - retains as much as they can from the original IP spirit while still pandering to the market. Result : SUCCESS! Both the company and the gamers are pleased.
EA adapts Syndicate IP to the modern environment - prostitutes the original IP and churns out a me-too on a genre that has left more rotting corpses in its wake than the plague. Probable result: FAILURE! The company loses money and gamers are screwed.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Princess Skittles said:
Shadowrun? Is anyone looking for Shadowrun?
shuyin_ said:If Be happy that you're getting a Syndicate game at all, kids. is what you got, then im sorry, but youre just interpreting my posts.
That reply came after some people said that they wont play it anyway (regardless of whether or not itd be a good game) because its not Syndicate.
Youre throwing out-of context quotes at me, trying to give a different meaning to what I said and yet you ignore me when i say (in my previous post): "people had a childish attitude: they said they won't play the game even if it turns out to be a good game.".
That's what i meant when i said childish and it's not hard to understand. Are you having cognitive problems? If not, please understand what i'm saying.
With the latter part of your post, i agree and disagree. I agree that would be the best way to revive an old IP. However, you're being idealistic (i think that's the word).
You really see EA (or ANY big publisher) greenlighting a game based on an old IP and keeping it in the same genre but adjusting the budget in order to make some profits and not lose money due to the game sticking with a niche genre?
You seriously think a publisher would bother with that? I think publishers want 'the big money'And so far, the big money = shooters, whether you and i like it or not.
What none of your posts will acknowledge is that Syndicate as an IP isn't about the world. The games weren't loved because of the plot or backstory. They were enjoyed because the combination between setting and gameplay mechanics. Similar to why the Genesis Shadowrun game was so much better than the FPS one (Even though the FPS Shadowrun game was very well made, fans of that IP are PNP RPG fans first and foremost).
I don't get why you fail to comprehend that. You keep bringing up how you just want a Loom sequel no matter the genre in order to continue the story...how is that relevant when none of the fans of Syndicate care about the story. We'd much rather have an interesting tactical squad based management game.
Someone else brought up the the switch of SWAT to a FPS game, and I have to point out that is an excellent example of how to change perspective but keep the SPIRIT of the game alive. Even though the perspective is first person it was still a tactical squad management game. This syndicate game is clearly not, it has a story about how the 'main character' was abducted as a child and turned into a faceless killer. I don't want a story from this particular game, I want to form a team of corporate killers and tactically eliminate strategic targets in an interesting open world environment.
In fact, I'd rather have an pseudo-MMO Syndicate than this corridor shooter crap. Lets have 64 people teamed up into squads of 4 and assigned specific objectives within a randomized cyberpunk city environment, they can fight each other for important dropoints, capture data havens, maybe even have an awesome alternate hacking competitive match that can give your team bonus resources. THIS would be a game that keeps the SPIRIT of the IP alive while making it more interesting to a wider audience.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
erragal said:
Going GTA style with this could be interesting. But that's more expensive than churning out a generic FPS.
shuyin_ said:
Do you understand how replies work? You quoted and replied directly to water_wendi, who never said anything about ignoring the game if it turns out to be good. He simply asked how you would feel if a game you loved was brought back as something different. And you apparently don't understand how to construct sentences. You wrote "you simple aren't mature enough to be happy with what you get," and followed it up directly with "Not trying to make a statement here, but all of you with this attitude are children." One is leading directly to the other, and the two thoughts are linked. This is fairly basic English. If it isn't your first language, I apologize.
And you're apparently unable to describe what you mean by "good." Again, is it the Metacritic score? Sales? A person alone should judge whether they feel a game is good or not. If it doesn't appeal to them, despite whatever acclaim, then it doesn't. That doesn't make them childish. It's much more a statement about you.
MmmSkyscraper
Unconfirmed Member
You may be right but to tell you the truth, the thing that amazed me most about the first Syndicate, wasn't its setting, nor its gameplay. It was the VGA graphics that looked AMAZING. Other than that i remember liking the 'persuasion' mechanic... i used to love 'brainwashing' people into following me.erragal said:
And between the setting and the gameplay, i was more impressed by the cyberpunk setting at that time.
For the last time, because i'm tired of people being stupid and venting on me in this thread (i'm not referring to you erragal) my stance is this: i'm not defending their choice, to make it a FPS. But i can understand their reasoning and really, unless you are an idealist, you know that gaming is a business and you know how things work in the industry.
So if the game will be good, i'll play it. If not, then i won't play it. That's my stance.
@Zeliard: no, english isn't my 1st language. Yes, i understand i could've worded everything better and that was in response to waterwendi, but i was talking generally, especially on the background of all the other replies that said they wouldn't play the game even if it'll be good, because it's a different genre than the original Syndicate.
By good i mean if it will be critically praised as a good game.. you know, a good game well worth your time, not just another average FPS.
â Narayan
Member
Well, Syndicate has always been a real time tactical action/shooter, so it won't be too bad if the new game has elements from the original series. (Naturally, it won't.)
shuyin_ said:
So how about Rainbow Six, then? The first Vegas game was critically-acclaimed and I think sold pretty well, but it miffed the old school Rainbow Six fans. Are they childish for not appreciating the direction it went in, or did they simply want something more like the classic R6 games? How about Ghost Recon?
The point is, ultimately, devs shouldn't be digging up classic franchises and rebranding them as FPS or making significant "streamlined" changes for the purpose of making a buck. It's just unseemly and it rarely leads to something that approaches what the older game went for.
I like Starbreeze. Loved the first Riddick and I mostly liked The Darkness. They could make a good game. Time will tell how good, and how much it'll resemble at least parts of Syndicate, but history hasn't been too positive when it comes to franchises that come back and make it a significant priority to gain wider appeal. It naturally feels like Starbreeze is doing that with this new Syndicate, along with 2K Marin and XCOM.
Princess Skittles
Prince's's 'Skittle's
This and the Call of Duty SSX crap, EA really is on a roll. How out of touch are they?
Wolves Evolve
Member
I think its appropriate that the forum title be changed to "fucking" FPS.
I really don't remember hearing a lot of buzz about R6 Vegas, nor it being critically acclaimed.Zeliard said:
Look at it like this: the Might and Magic rpg series was pretty much dead when Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (by the Arx Fatalis team) was released. A pretty similar situation: old IP, new direction, different team.
Dark Messiah was a great game. Anyone that didn't play it on the premise that it wasn't pure RPG was childish. Seriously, that doesn't make sense to me. Missing out on a good game because it changed genre...seriously?
We've already discussed this, but that's how it is. They see an opportunity to make money by making it a FPS, because FPS sells.Zeliard said:
Seriously, IN MY OPINION, the problem isn't the dev.. or the publisher. The problem is the end user. Why is nobody buying RTT games? Or Point and Click games; or TB RPGs (outside of the japanese market).
All the cool kids say 'fuck Activision' or 'fuck EA' on internet forums. Yet, they will continue to buy the next Halo by the millions; or Modern Warfare; or Battlefield. But they won't buy A New Beginning (a point and click adventure nobody knows about that releases today). Or the newest Men of War expansion. That right there is the problem, not the dev or the publisher.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
This is fucking pathetic. Does EA really think it's fucking impossible to market a third person squad based strategy game about brainwashing citizens and running a megacorporation? The concept fucking sells itself.
shuyin_ said:
Your Might & Magic example was good, other than the fact that it wasn't changed into a genre that has been done to death and back four-hundred different minute ways this generation alone. Frankly, I'm so fucking sick and tired of FPS games at this point that I probably won't buy another one for a decade. An upcoming game could give me a blowjob for every headshot and I'd still at least think twice before buying it.
Then make an FPS. Don't call it Syndicate. Or X-Com. Or any other fantastic series from the past that most console gamers have never heard of, nor loved, for years and years. Just give it a name with 'War' in the damn title, release it to the easily-pleased, and call it a day.
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Vinci said:
This is what I don't get. Why shit on a great legacy franchise when the target audience has never heard of or played it? What's the benefit in drudging it up? A way to retain the IP easily? Save on copyright fees?
shuyin_ said:
It's nitpicking, but not only was the Might and Magic brand name still active (with the 'Heroes' line) but DM was always billed as a spin-off and set itself apart by being somewhat unique in its own right.
In other words, it never felt like it was trolling a nostalgic IP for easy attention, while this Syndicate reboot (along with Xcom) does.
I mean, your part in this thread is going around in circles so I'm not trying to make an actual point, just to say that the two franchises don't really match up all that well.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
RE: Use of the Syndicate title.
On the one hand, I don't think Syndicate has any selling power or brand equity right now. The kind of people most likely to fondly remember the older games and thus most susceptible to buying "a new Syndicate" are the kinds of people most likely to react harshly to a change. So I have no idea why they're calling it Syndicate. If it was released as "Project Redlime", there'd be no negative consequences. They'd probably do even better if it was released as an unrelated product, but in interviews they said "This is a new IP FPS, but we took a lot of thematic inspiration from the old Syndicate games".
On the other hand, I'm not sure why people are attached to the IP so dearly. I doubt there would ever be a new Syndicate in the mould of the originals. If there was, it'd be done by an indie team who wouldn't have the name anyway. I don't like the FPSification of the industry (although I do like FPSes), but that'd be true no matter what they called the game. It's not likely to interfere with a "canon" or "retroactively ruin memories of the earlier games". So I'm not sure why it matters if this is called Super Mario Bros or Syndicate or Project Redlime.
On the one hand, I don't think Syndicate has any selling power or brand equity right now. The kind of people most likely to fondly remember the older games and thus most susceptible to buying "a new Syndicate" are the kinds of people most likely to react harshly to a change. So I have no idea why they're calling it Syndicate. If it was released as "Project Redlime", there'd be no negative consequences. They'd probably do even better if it was released as an unrelated product, but in interviews they said "This is a new IP FPS, but we took a lot of thematic inspiration from the old Syndicate games".
On the other hand, I'm not sure why people are attached to the IP so dearly. I doubt there would ever be a new Syndicate in the mould of the originals. If there was, it'd be done by an indie team who wouldn't have the name anyway. I don't like the FPSification of the industry (although I do like FPSes), but that'd be true no matter what they called the game. It's not likely to interfere with a "canon" or "retroactively ruin memories of the earlier games". So I'm not sure why it matters if this is called Super Mario Bros or Syndicate or Project Redlime.
BobsRevenge
I do not avoid women, GAF, but I do deny them my essence.
Yeah, I pulled up the article and saw this quote: "RedLime was meant to be the step up from Darkness, where we sort of took all the mistakes we did with Darkness and do them right,"Loxley said:
and was like... bro, I'm down.
Marketing decides what will sell. A New Beginning haven't sold millions because millions don't know about the game. You might as well complain that your local rock band haven't sold more than Metallica (despite probably being a better band nowadays). But I seem to remember Tales of Monkey Island selling pretty well, not to mention the Monkey Island Special Editions.
Civilization sells, despite being a strategy game. It's a big name, but to be a big name, you have to put some love into the franchise. Civilization haven't become a big seller because of the name, but because it's a consistantly solid series that recieves tons of love from the developers, while staying true to the original vision. Make a new Syndicate with the same love and attention that other big typical PC games recieve, and they will succeed. If Syndicate was given the attention from the developers that Civilization or StarCraft had, they could make a game that lots of people want to play without shitting on the original's legacy.
Civilization sells, despite being a strategy game. It's a big name, but to be a big name, you have to put some love into the franchise. Civilization haven't become a big seller because of the name, but because it's a consistantly solid series that recieves tons of love from the developers, while staying true to the original vision. Make a new Syndicate with the same love and attention that other big typical PC games recieve, and they will succeed. If Syndicate was given the attention from the developers that Civilization or StarCraft had, they could make a game that lots of people want to play without shitting on the original's legacy.
Stumpokapow said:
Because we hear that a new 'Syndicate' title is being developed and we immediately connect that with memories from when we were younger. Then when we find it's going to be an FPS, it's like someone is mocking us for giving a shit about the name anymore.
I have no problem with EA making FPS titles. Hell, they can make thousands if they think that'll keep them from hemorrhaging more money. But if they could do so without spitting on memories we have of great games that will likely never receive a proper sequel, that would be appreciated.
The name means nothing to those they are marketing this towards, but it means something to the rest of us. So using it in relation to a game utterly unlike the original only brings with it negative reactions.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
truly101 said:
Lots.
DA2 = streamlining, ignoring IP legacy and fanbase, attempting to pursue the CoD unicorn = sales failure.
That sounds like the exact business plan they got for the new Syndicate.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Stumpokapow said:
Bitmap Frogs
Bull Brothers
Stumpokapow said:
People are not attached to the IP, people are attached to the game.
If the new Syndicate is a corridor FPS with a "multiplayer focus" it means they don't get that game they loved back then, or something that is clearly an evolution of that. In fact your two points are connected, people loved that back then so they would like more of that, better, bolder, with awesome graphics and incredible settings and different options. Getting something completely different only leads to frustration.
Boaty McBoatface
Member
Still enjoy playing SWARS on DOSBox, so this news is very dissapointing 
Of All Trades
Member
I hope you realize that the reaction you're describing is pretty awful in general? As in there's almost no benefit to the emotions you're describing and that they could actually be harmful?Vinci said:
Did you get this angry when Mario 64 turned out to be following the PC trend of moving away from 2D sprites and into 3D?
I never heard of Shadowrun until the FPS release, I love that game. Also never heard of Syndicate until this news, maybe it will be a great shooter like Shadowrun is. Sorry that it is pissing all over your franchise, but I'm still looking forward to a good game from a developer I like.
I don't trust Starbreeze to handle Multiplayer all that well though, I did trust FASA for multiplayer and they nailed it with Shadowrun.
I don't trust Starbreeze to handle Multiplayer all that well though, I did trust FASA for multiplayer and they nailed it with Shadowrun.
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
While this is a pretty stupid example, I always hated 3D Mario and was happy when they released NSMB, which also sold a lot better than the 3D Marios.Of All Trades said:
But again on topic:
Why make it a stupid fps in the fist place?
They won't magically get people to buy SYDICATE instead off call of duty, because the people who buy call of duty simply won't care. What they're achieving is alienating and pissing off fans of the original series. I won't buy this for sure, because NOTHING that is know about this game so far make it sound anything like something even slightly connected to syndicate
Of All Trades said:
And you realize there's actually no benefit to calling this thing Syndicate if it's nothing like the original, right?
Was it still a platformer? Why yes, yes it was. Though to be fair, I prefer 2D Mario titles to the 3D ones - but it didn't offend me or anything. And this doesn't particularly offend me, so much as just throw salt on an old wound.
Sorry, but I don't want every game to play the same. And I sure as hell don't want games that were originally interesting and dynamic made to play like everything else.
Bitmap Frogs said:
Except that DA2 was a rushed to market cash grab thats not going to appeal to anyone who wants to "blow shit up". Let me guess, you bought into their whole "we want to attract the console gamer with DA2" scapegoat for DA2's laziness and shoddy development. If you want to see "streamlining for consolers" see ME2. You may not like that game but only the most jaded, cynical, delusional conspiracy theorists would try to equate the two in quality, and if they did hopefully they are laughed at and mocked. One day kids will come to terms with the fact that ME1 was a shitty RPG and was much improvewhen they trimmed the unnecessary clunky fat.
shuyin_ said:
I completely agree that people should be buying games other than FPSes, but so long as more pubs and devs create and release them (the majority of which are fairly mediocre) and turn franchises into them, it's not really going to get any better. Just look at the leap in the number of simplistic and samey first-person shooters we've had this gen (which Dark Messiah was not; on the contrary, that game was unique and fun and was all about its first-person design, and it was also a spin-off in a series that has had a few spin-offs and genre changes).
I don't think it's going to slow down and certainly won't change any time soon, and given that Black Ops is apparently the best-selling game of all-time in the U.S., the swarm of FPS is only likely to increase in the next console gen especially with the boost in graphical fidelity. If this trend involves resurrecting older non-FPS franchises only to lump them into the group, it doesn't make it any better, especially since we've also seen another trend: that of the dumbing down. Oh yes. It's a problem that has afflicted many an older franchise brought back and marketed towards a wider audience. And R6: Vegas was indeed critically-acclaimed.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
truly101 said:
But that's the same thing they doing with Mass Effect. As it stands right now it's a Gears of War wannabe with interactive dialogue driven cutscenes and the RPG elements have been so watered down they are barely above CoD perks. Heck, Borderlands is more RPG than Mass Effect at this point.
You gotta be blind not to realize BioWare/EA is going bonkers attempting to capture the 5 million+ sales market which currently is dominated by games that aren't RPGs.
The new Syndicate FPS is just another attempt by EA to crack that market. And I repeat, the futile attempts to do so have left a rotting pile of dead IPs by now.
We know BioWare's IPs aren't gonna appeal to people who just want to to "blow shit up" but that's the way they're steering their product.
Speaking about ME1, I resent your condescending attitude to call "kids" people who appreciated that game. And I repeat one thing that's been said over and over - they could have improved the clunky RPG mechanics or removed them. They chose the latter - that was a deliberate choice, not the only possible evolution for the franchise.
Of All Trades
Member
I think it's of limited use but although apparently people never read the manual or the mission briefings there were world-building elements in both Syndicate games, particularly Wars, that would save EA the hassle of having to reinvent. I guess they could have called the new one Corporation or something but then you'll get people crabbing about "spiritual sequels".Vinci said:
Why are you this emotionally attached to an 18- and 13-year old game? We're you 12 then? Everything was best when you were 12.
Fine, then explain how, aside from viewpoint, Syndicate and Syndicate Wars (particularly the latter, which removed most of the multi-level strategy in favor of destroyable buildings and 3D visuals) are different from a FPS and which genre elements are non-translatable. Be sure to include references to Dungeon Keeper, GTA3, Rainbow 6, and Escape/Hired Guns.
Bitmap Frogs said:
Only ME was designed to be one of the flagship Xbox 360 titles, that was known from the get go that this was their focus. The shit from the first game DID NOT WORK, it had a terrible inventory, superfluous stats that made no real differences, nerfed classes, clunky combat. I'm sorry but just as every game doesn't need to be an FPS, not every western RPG HAS TO BE SOME GODDAMNED ISOMETRIC MOUSE AND KEYBOARD BULLSHIT to work. Don't play ME if you don't like it, I don't give a fuck, but I'm reall goddamn tired of PC snobs playing this lowest common demominator COD bullshit with everything that doesn't go their way.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
truly101 said:
You still aren't addressing the fact they could have fixed the RPG elements instead of turning it into Gears of Effect.
Gearbox can make a good FPS/RPG hybrid, so should Bioware.
And for the love of god, what makes you think this is about isometric mouse and keyboard bullshit? Here's a hint, you can have deep RPG mechanics without PC controls. Are you saying you can't manage an RPG inventory without a mouse? Jesus, someone phone Square Enix, apparently they've been making things that aren't possible!
You are just blurring the whole issue because you don't want to admit that BioWare is purposedly refocusing their output to appeal to Gears/CoD customers.
Ahoi-Brause
Banned
Because that's what people do and also the prime reason this fps shit is even getting the syndicate title slapped on, so it gets a few buys from people who are nostalgic about syndicate and the rest of the sales from kids who want to buy DA NEW GRITTY FPS.Of All Trades said:
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
neorej said:
With a sprinkle of System Shock and a familiar, contemporary setting like some middle eastern country.
Wait.