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Next gen doesn't start until Sony/MS first party studios say so?

soo.....PD,GG,SSM,ND vs 343

Its going to be a slaughter.

I think we are not giving the credit third parties deserve. They will definitely deliver great looking games.
 
javac said:
The Wii U will probably be the most 'must have' console next gen then.
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Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but that is entirely why I plan on going WiiU/PC for most of this gen. With a PC there really isn't a reason to own an xbox beyond playing with your social circle and the exclusive lineup. I am not really interested with in the exclusives and my friends are all PC gamers, so PC/Nintendo + handhelds is perfect for me.
 
The eighth generation of video game consoles began with the launch of the 3DS, which was the first release of a new major video game platform since 2006.
 
Aside from 1st party titles I'm also expecting to be floored by the usual suspects like the next gen Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid.

But yeah, overall, I'm expecting big things from Sony's devs.
 
My PC said it already started next gen over a year ago when it got the GTX 580 :P, oh you mean consoles? Dunno, maybe the one that releases first will be it lol
 
Funny the SE tech demo was posted, I think the PS3 FFXIII was the only none first party game this generation to really blow me away, incredible work.
 
BigTnaples said:
Source? Why?
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Well first of all that source said that Sony was looking to reach parity with MS's 8GB of RAM and 8GB of GDDR5 would blow them away. 2nd of all how much it would cost. 3rdly I think the specs of the PS4 are probably pretty close to set in stone

I think the PS3 FFXIII was the only none first party game this generation to really blow me away, incredible work.
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Maybe it was just my expectations but I was not impressed by FF13 outside of a few areas
 
9thwonder said:
Am I the only one who doesn't expect to be that impressed by third party studios next gen? When it comes to graphics, third party studios aren't even on my brain(even people like crytek or epic). Watch dogs looks cool and star wars looks great but I honestly don't think we'll be "wowed" until We see Sony's first party (and 343) show off their games. I even feel the same way about Nintendo/retro.
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Next gen already began since the WiiU launched. If you want to go by Dice/EA, I guess it begins when the 720 or PS4 launches, whichever comes first.
 
The games that have wowed me most have come from Sony first party, Guerrilla, naughty dog, sony santa monica and polyphony. A few third parties come close like rockstar with RDR, Epic, 343i and CC2 because they're practically the only people doing cell shaded games seriously.
 
metalslimer said:
Maybe it was just my expectations but I was not impressed by FF13 outside of a few areas
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I thought it was amazing, but it's an odd one to highlight, because it's focus is so different to the average game, and how it achieves it is different too. Most the cutscenes are prerecorded at much better than PS3 quality, so a lot of it is kind of faked, and I know some people disapprove of that as being impressive in anyway, but as a complete package, I thought it always looked really beautiful, and ran very well.

FFXIII-2 on the other hand is an ugly piece of poop, and LR looks to be even more embarrassing.
 
metalslimer said:
Well first of all that source said that Sony was looking to reach parity with MS's 8GB of RAM and 8GB of GDDR5 would blow them away. 2nd of all how much it would cost. 3rdly I think the specs of the PS4 are probably pretty close to set in stone
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Well Sony would want to have the advantage of being the most powerful console, so that would make perfect sense, reaching parity in this context just seems like semantics.

Yes it would cost more, but then again they have yet to announce the System let alone the price. If adding 8GB GDDR5 really did help the Orbis blow away Durango, then the value and price of the Orbis would increase as well.


I see no reason why the ram would have to be set in stone a year before launch. MS doubled the 360's ram in less time, why should we think it would be a different scenario here?


Now all this said, I don't think it is the most likely thing in the world either, but I think saying "It won't happen" is a bit of a stretch.
 
The whole "WiiU next-gen/not next-gen" derail that is constantly happening is annoying but also kind of useful. The people who say it's not next-gen go on a list of people that I now know are easily susceptible to marketing speak.

In answer to the OP, yeah, first-party studios are usually the ones to look at. Considering most/all third-party games will be set to work on the LCD between Durango/Orbis, the first-party games are the only ones that are really paid to shine.
 
REMEMBER CITADEL said:
I'll never understand the first party obsession so prevalent on this forum.
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Third parties create games for the sake of games (and money). They serve themselves as publishers or developers and success means reaching the largest audience with their game. First party games are created to serve the platform they are on and remain exclusive to boost the value of the platform. Success means that the game becomes a "system seller".

Although third party games make up the majority of highest selling and highest rated games, they are just developers and publishers without a common thread. People do not feel an affinity for "third parties" in general.

First party games have close links to a platform (likely one the buyer is already biased towards) and have the further psychological benefit of exclusivity. They inspire much more loyalty. ....Too cynical?
 
timetokill said:
The whole "WiiU next-gen/not next-gen" derail that is constantly happening is annoying but also kind of useful. The people who say it's not next-gen go on a list of people that I now know are easily susceptible to marketing speak.
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Marketing Speak has nothing to do with why people say the WiiU is not Next gen. People say it is not next gen because although next gen literally just means the next generation or iteration of hardware, in the world of console gaming, it has always also meant a huge leap in fidelity. The Wii came a long and trashed the fact that that line of thinking used to "work" flawlessly.


People that make the WiiU IS next gen argument are way more annoying than the ones that say it is not. The ones that say it is are just arguing to argue the meaning of the phrase to gamers.

If someone says the WiiU is not "Next gen" you know exactly what they mean, and why they mean it, regardless if it is a part of gen 8 or not.
 
BigTnaples said:
Marketing Speak has nothing to do with why people say the WiiU is not Next gen. People say it is not next gen because although next gen literally just means the next generation or iteration of hardware, in the world of console gaming, it has always also meant a huge leap in fidelity. The Wii came a long and trashed the fact that that line of thinking used to "work" flawlessly.
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Yes, it does. One of the more interesting things about effective marketing is getting people to think the way you want without them realizing it.

People that make the WiiU IS next gen argument are way more annoying than the ones that say it is not. The ones that say it is are just arguing to argue the meaning of the phrase to gamers.
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Gamers, keepers of the Word. "I have a next-generation music player here," one said, and the Gamer scoffed: "It doesn't have better graphics, so it's not really any different from my old Walkman."

If someone says the WiiU is not "Next gen" you know exactly what they mean, and why they mean it, regardless if it is a part of gen 8 or not.
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Yes, I know they are either invested in their Sony/MS platform loyalty to want to denigrate the Wii U with the "lol not next-gen" quippery, they're confused by marketing speak, or they honestly are ignorant of what generations mean in terms of hardware.
 
BigTnaples said:
Marketing Speak has nothing to do with why people say the WiiU is not Next gen. People say it is not next gen because although next gen literally just means the next generation or iteration of hardware, in the world of console gaming, it has always also meant a huge leap in fidelity. The Wii came a long and trashed the fact that that line of thinking used to "work" flawlessly.
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Problem is, you can't define "huge" in objective terms.

BigTnaples said:
If someone says the WiiU is not "Next gen" you know exactly what they mean, and why they mean it, regardless if it is a part of gen 8 or not.
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Why not say it's a weak next gen?
 
timetokill said:
Yes, I know they are either invested in their Sony/MS platform loyalty to want to denigrate the Wii U with the "lol not next-gen" quippery, they're confused by marketing speak, or they honestly are ignorant of what generations mean in terms of hardware.
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The truth is there isn't a consensus on what it means. Wikipedia is not a more reliable source than EA, or vice versa, or any other person with an opinion. It's a bullshit marketing term and it means whatever you bring to it.
 
timetokill said:
Yes, it does. One of the more interesting things about effective marketing is getting people to think the way you want without them realizing it.

Still incorrect. A gamer that has been gaming since the 80's but had theoretically never seen a single piece of marketing regarding this would still have an association of Next Gen and increased fidelity. All gamers did. When you heard the term "Next Gen" before 2005 you ALWAYS expected a fidelity leap, because that's how it happened to work in the gaming industry. The Wii bucked that, and the WiiU did nothing to "Correct" it.


Gamers, keepers of the Word. "I have a next-generation music player here," one said, and the Gamer scoffed: "It doesn't have better graphics, so it's not really any different from my old Walkman."

Did I say gamers were the keeper of the word? When speaking in the context of console iterations, any older gamer would instantly have an expectation of the Next generation of consoles improving graphics/horsepower, because being that their hobby is in fact video games, the graphics/scale are somewhat important to the evolution of the hobby. Context matters, if I was speaking to someone about an MP3 player and they said that I would no longer associate with them because they are clearly an idiot. Which brings me to the final point again.



Yes, I know they are either invested in their Sony/MS platform loyalty to want to denigrate the Wii U with the "lol not next-gen" quippery, they're confused by marketing speak, or they honestly are ignorant of what generations mean in terms of hardware.


Saying the WiiU is not "Next Gen" has nothing to do with ANYTHING in the above sentence. At all. The people saying this know the literal meaning of Next Generation or Next Iteration. They are not confused. They are not idiots like the example you crafted above. They just think that within the context of gaming, it should be how it always was, with every new hardware iteration improving the horsepower of the system. And the WiiU did this, but they did not compensate for the Wii (nor did they want to), so in comparison to the other 8th gen consoles, Nintendo's 8th gen console has much more in common with the competitions 8 year old 7th gen offerings as far as hardware is concerned. Which many Nintendo fans take issue with because of the inherent problems with 3rd party support it creates when there is such a large gap in the power of hardware iterations that occupy the same time period. For example, if I could only have one console this gen, and I went with Ninendo because I am a fan, I would be upset that I could not enjoy games on my console that the other console owners enjoy for the sole reason of the hardware not being powerful enough, even though it is still the same generation of console.

So instead of expecting they explain that every single time, let them say the WiiU is not next gen. We all know exactly what they mean in the context of NeoGAF discussions. If you really get confused by what they mean, then it is you who has an issue of processing anything beyond its literal meaning.
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.
 
Shion said:
This thread is about graphics, though.
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Magic Ovaries said:
"Next generation of leap in graphics technology" says hi....to PS4 and Nextbox
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StuBurns said:
Gen 3, son.
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Y'all heathens. Bask in the heavenly glory thy souls seldom deserve. Bask in magnificence of Nintendo's 1st party art style and tablet based gameplay that tests the pace of thy eyeballs.

Seriously though, even by my conservative estimates of tomorrow's open world games having the same visual fidelity of today's linear games (Uncharted, Halo 4, etc) with better physics and animations, it would be a leap over what any console currently available in the market.
 
BigTnaples said:
Marketing Speak has nothing to do with why people say the WiiU is not Next gen. People say it is not next gen because although next gen literally just means the next generation or iteration of hardware, in the world of console gaming, it has always also meant a huge leap in fidelity. The Wii came a long and trashed the fact that that line of thinking used to "work" flawlessly.


People that make the WiiU IS next gen argument are way more annoying than the ones that say it is not. The ones that say it is are just arguing to argue the meaning of the phrase to gamers.

If someone says the WiiU is not "Next gen" you know exactly what they mean, and why they mean it, regardless if it is a part of gen 8 or not.
Click to expand...

This is the crux of it. Generation has always meant hardware spec until Wii. So instead of being about tech, some people want it to be about semantics.
 
i-Lo said:
Y'all heathens. Bask in the heavenly glory thy souls seldom deserve. Bask in magnificence of Nintendo's 1st party art style and tablet based gameplay that tests the pace of thy eyeballs.

Seriously though, even by my conservative estimates of tomorrow's open world games having the same visual fidelity of today's linear games (Uncharted, Halo 4, etc) with better physics and animations, it would be a leap over what any console currently available in the market.
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I was joking of course, I'm firmly in the camp that believes next-gen literally just means whatever they do next. But I understand what people are saying, will Zelda be very pretty? Yes, of course. Will it be prettier than GoW:Ascension? No idea, but it certainly won't compare to PS4 or XB3 games, and for some people, that's all they mean, and that's fine.
 
BigTnaples said:
.
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Still incorrect. A gamer that has been gaming since the 80's but had theoretically never seen a single piece of marketing regarding this would still have an association of Next Gen and increased fidelity. All gamers did. When you heard the term "Next Gen" before 2005 you ALWAYS expected a fidelity leap, because that's how it happened to work in the gaming industry. The Wii bucked that, and the WiiU did nothing to "Correct" it.
Click to expand...

Still incorrect. The word always meant the next platform in line, and though you may have had the perception that a large increase in graphic fidelity was part of that, it just happened to be the case.

The Wii was still more powerful than the GameCube. Consider the situation where there are no competitors to the Wii. The Wii would be called "next-generation" without hesitation because it's a wholly new platform with better tech and new features that separate it from the previous console hardware. The Wii is more powerful and can produce visuals the GameCube cannot. Maybe it wasn't enough of a jump for you, but that's useless in terms of classifying hardware.

"But you can't ignore the others," you say. And yet you are all too happy to ignore PC development which makes even the upcoming Durango/Orbis tech look dated.

The word is therefore only useful to delineate hardware generations, not some personal opinion of "graphics power." Everyone can agree and understand hardware generations. Your skewed marketing-speak version of the term leads to conversations where "PS4 is 1.5x more next-gen than Xbox" levels of schoolyard discussion and it's ultimately not useful.

Anyway, I don't expect you to change your mind, as you're obviously too invested in your marketing-driven concept of what "next-gen" means. Cool, you're entitled to that. It just falls under what Shocking Alberto said earlier, basically.
 
Stinkles said:
This is the crux of it. Generation has always meant hardware spec until Wii. So instead of being about tech, some people want it to be about semantics.
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It's as if people forget that generations were always labeled by Bits. 8 bit, 16 bit, 32 bit. Hell Nintendo went so far as to put the number of bits into the name of one of their consoles. People that claim generations have always been defined in gaming by timeframes are just plain wrong. Perhaps the term needs some tweaking to accomodate Nintendo's new low-fi approach to gaming, but it doesn't change history.
 
timetokill said:
Still incorrect. The word always meant the next platform in line, and though you may have had the perception that a large increase in graphic fidelity was part of that, it just happened to be the case.

The Wii was still more powerful than the GameCube. Consider the situation where there are no competitors to the Wii. The Wii would be called "next-generation" without hesitation because it's a wholly new platform with better tech and new features that separate it from the previous console hardware. The Wii is more powerful and can produce visuals the GameCube cannot. Maybe it wasn't enough of a jump for you, but that's useless in terms of classifying hardware.

"But you can't ignore the others," you say. And yet you are all too happy to ignore PC development which makes even the upcoming Durango/Orbis tech look dated.

The word is therefore only useful to delineate hardware generations, not some personal opinion of "graphics power." Everyone can agree and understand hardware generations. Your skewed marketing-speak version of the term leads to conversations where "PS4 is 1.5x more next-gen than Xbox" levels of schoolyard discussion and it's ultimately not useful.

Anyway, I don't expect you to change your mind, as you're obviously too invested in your marketing-driven concept of what "next-gen" means. Cool, you're entitled to that. It just falls under what Shocking Alberto said earlier, basically.
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Funny you should accuse him of falling for marketing speak. Because most of us are talking about generations of hardware performance, but you are talking about generations of marketing activity.

For the record, if I am talking about "gen" on gaf, I am talking about hardware, not retail activity. YMMV.
 
Anyone else notice that Durango info is starting to get a little scarce around here? We now have a PS4 unveiling date (still enough to make me say holy shit) and all the sudden there seems to be a blackout on Microsoft's next system.

I find this incredibly weird for two reasons:

1) All signs pointed to it being shown before PS4

and

2) Even Sony said they would let MS make the first move.

What do you guys think? Hardware revisions underway in light of PS4 specs or problems afoot? What's up, gaf?
 
Zeal said:
Anyone else notice that Durango info is starting to get a little scarce around here? We now have a PS4 unveiling date (still enough to make me say holy shit) and all the sudden there seems to be a blackout on Microsoft's next system.

I find this incredibly weird for two reasons:

1) All signs pointed to it being shown before PS4

and

2) Even Sony said they would let MS make the first move.

What do you guys think? Hardware revisions underway in light of PS4 specs or problems afoot? What's up, gaf?
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My guess is that Microsoft thinks they've come up with a genuinely disruptive feature (probably what is taking up so much of the systems RAM according to reports) and they're leaving it as late as they can to announce it to give sony as little time to emulate it as possible (see what they did at E3 2006 with the sixaxis to try and steal nintendo's thunder)

Whether or not this is a good strategy in the long run remains to be seen.
 
Just looking at that SE tech demo again, do people believe that's feasible? JordanN just a few posts up mentioned we wouldn't see a PS1 to GC style leap again, but that tech demo is probably the best leap ever outside of SNES to PS1 right?

1_NES.png


2_SNES.png


3_PS1.png


4_PS2.jpg


5_PS3.jpg


original_k.jpg


It seems like an astronomical rise.
 
I will honestly shit myself if we see any games realtime that look and move like Agni's Philosophy. Certain people are telling me Versus looks close to something like this now, but I'll believe it when I see it.

And this is unrelated, but thank god large harddrives are mandatory and can be used from the get go by developers now.
 
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