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|OT| Next-Gen PS5 & Next Xbox |OT| Speculation/Analysis/Leaks Thread

Next Gen Consoles Power Level


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Dec 12, 2006
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SonGoku SonGoku SpinningBirdKick SpinningBirdKick

Your opinions on Kleegamefan's info?
From what I've read I'd assume:
  1. It's a third party title
  2. Third party titles wouldn't push the hardware as much as first party
  3. Power difference wouldn't be exploited to its fullest as the title isn't maximizing out the hardware on either machine
  4. Therefore a difference is noticeable but not exaggerated as both machines are within limits.
  5. PS5 clocked higher due to advanced cooling patent in the public domain but not guaranteed to be used
  6. Scarlett isn't using a Big Navi die due the marketing render
  7. Phil Spencer has still backed off the performance leader talk. So assumed weaker overall.
  8. Edit: both are final hardware - unlikely. APUs are not finalized yet
So in the best case scenario Scarlett gets a spec bump making it one CU notch below the PS5.
  • PS5 4se 72a/80 @ 2000 = 18.4 TF
  • Scarlett 3se 66a/72 @ 1850 = 15.6 TF
A power diff of 17% which you could pass off as barely noticeable to the naked eye in this situation.
 
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THE:MILKMAN

Member
Mar 31, 2006
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From what I've read I'd assume:
  1. It's a third party title
  2. Third party titles wouldn't push the hardware as much as first party
  3. Power difference wouldn't be exploited to its fullest as the title isn't maximizing out the hardware on either machine
  4. Therefore a difference is noticeable but not exaggerated as both machines are within limits.
  5. PS5 clocked higher due to advanced cooling patent in the public domain but not guaranteed to be used
  6. Scarlett isn't using a Big Navi die due the marketing render
  7. Phil Spencer has still backed off the performance leader talk. So assumed weaker overall.
  8. Edit: both are final hardware - unlikely. APUs are not finalized yet
So in the best case scenario Scarlett gets a spec bump making it one CU notch below the PS5.
  • PS5 4se 72a/80 @ 2000 = 18.4 TF
  • Scarlett 3se 66a/72 @ 1850 = 15.6 TF
A power diff of 17% which you could pass off as barely noticeable to the naked eye in this situation.
So going down swinging on the 18.4TF hill then! If both end up around/below 10TF will you buy either?
 
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henau212

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May 30, 2019
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With the information available now I think 18.4 TF is a solid prediction. There may be further upside surprises as launch approaches before APUs are final.

If they're below 10TF I'll be in no rush to buy either.
Solid conclusion since he posted that everybody should not expect much in form of raw specifications. But keep dreaming the technically impossible..
 
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MadAnon

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Sep 11, 2018
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With the information available now I think 18.4 TF is a solid prediction. There may be further upside surprises as launch approaches before APUs are final.

If they're below 10TF I'll be in no rush to buy either.
Why so conservative? I think going with two 72CU Navi dedicated GPUs clocked at 2ghz with 8 year supply of liquid nitrogen icluded in price for 399 makes more sense. There will be no need for midgen refresh either.
 
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TLZ

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Oct 20, 2015
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With the information available now I think 18.4 TF is a solid prediction. There may be further upside surprises as launch approaches before APUs are final.

If they're below 10TF I'll be in no rush to buy either.
Nah man. I thought I was crazy with numbers, but that's too high.

I fancy 54CU @ the rumored 2ghz. If this happens I'm happy. I'm not sure how feasible it is with watts and heat and all though.
 
Dec 12, 2006
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Why so conservative? I think going with two 72CU Navi dedicated GPUs clocked at 2ghz with liquid nitrogen canister included for 399 makes more sense. There will be no need for midgen refresh either.
All the pieces of the puzzle are out there.

You just need to put them together yourself.

If you don't want to do that, that's ok too. Just sit back and wait for the reveals.

There's a lot at stake for the console manufacturers in the coming generation. There's no reason at all to believe we're getting weak machines.
 
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sonomamashine

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Jun 29, 2019
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All the pieces of the puzzle are out there.

You just need to put them together yourself.

If you don't want to do that, that's ok too. Just sit back and wait for the reveals.

There's a lot a stake for the console manufacturers in the coming generation. There's no reason at all to believe we're getting weak machines.
Make sure to be well surrounded by family before watching the reveal.
 

MadAnon

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Sep 11, 2018
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All the pieces of the puzzle are out there.

You just need to put them together yourself.

If you don't want to do that, that's ok too. Just sit back and wait for the reveals.

There's a lot a stake for the console manufacturers in the coming generation. There's no reason at all to believe we're getting weak machines.
You are very selective with your puzzle pieces. Like pretending that Gonzalo, Flute was just made up bs by komachi not long ago but suddenly 2ghz clock is a solid guess. Ok buddy. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Dec 12, 2006
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You are very selective with your puzzle pieces. Like pretending that Gonzalo, Flute was just made up bs by komachi not long ago but suddenly 2ghz frequency is a solid guess. Ok buddy. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
The way I look at the Komachi situation is this...
  1. I have always been very vocal about relying on apisak and Komachi tweets
  2. One way or another they have access to information that others do not
  3. No one has stopped them distributing the information
  4. You'd have to assume that whoever's info is being trickling out they are fine with it
  5. They are fine with it because it's true and will not ultimately disappoint the potential consumers who follow this stuff
  6. Gonzalo/Flute were/are early APUs, not final
  7. The leaks are showing how the hardware is evolving through development, we are getting the highlights
  8. Oberon clock leak is the real deal. It would be difficult to reveal a lower clock after this, no?
  9. More info will be leaked when the time/opportunity is right?
  10. It will build to a crescendo where the whole config can be understood?
With these assumptions I revisited everything I thought about 14.2 TF and saw that the 2000 clock does look achievable and changed my target to 18.4 and posted as much on this thread.

Occam's Razor, not mental gymnastics.
 

DeeThaDogg

Member
Jan 10, 2018
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From what I've read I'd assume:
  1. It's a third party title
  2. Third party titles wouldn't push the hardware as much as first party
  3. Power difference wouldn't be exploited to its fullest as the title isn't maximizing out the hardware on either machine
  4. Therefore a difference is noticeable but not exaggerated as both machines are within limits.
  5. PS5 clocked higher due to advanced cooling patent in the public domain but not guaranteed to be used
  6. Scarlett isn't using a Big Navi die due the marketing render
  7. Phil Spencer has still backed off the performance leader talk. So assumed weaker overall.
  8. Edit: both are final hardware - unlikely. APUs are not finalized yet
So in the best case scenario Scarlett gets a spec bump making it one CU notch below the PS5.
  • PS5 4se 72a/80 @ 2000 = 18.4 TF
  • Scarlett 3se 66a/72 @ 1850 = 15.6 TF
A power diff of 17% which you could pass off as barely noticeable to the naked eye in this situation.
18tf
 
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Norse

Member
Jun 7, 2004
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So in the best case scenario Scarlett gets a spec bump making it one CU notch below the PS5.
  • PS5 4se 72a/80 @ 2000 = 18.4 TF
  • Scarlett 3se 66a/72 @ 1850 = 15.6 TF
A power diff of 17% which you could pass off as barely noticeable to the naked eye in this situation.
Just how exactly does that equal the difference between original xbone and the xbone s?
 

Gamernyc78

Member
Jun 11, 2018
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We all know based on so many rumors they will be around 12tf which is great!! Anything above is genie in a bottle wishing. The shit tht og ps4 spits out like Second Son and God of War at 1.8 TF is amazing so 12tf on PS5 will be eye melting. I mean look at TLOU 2 and Ghost of T. Graphics taking into account base models, that stuff looks next Gen juicy.
 
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sonomamashine

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Jun 29, 2019
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With the information available now I think 18.4 TF is a solid prediction.
With these assumptions I revisited everything I thought about 14.2 TF and saw that the 2000 clock does look achievable and changed my target to 18.4 and posted as much on this thread.

Occam's Razor, not mental gymnastics.
Ask father SonGoku SonGoku to put 18Tf on the poll for you, if he doesn't tell you son repent yourself then you must know he's not your friend.
 

Mass Shift

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Jun 12, 2019
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From what I've read I'd assume:
  1. It's a third party title
  2. Third party titles wouldn't push the hardware as much as first party
  3. Power difference wouldn't be exploited to its fullest as the title isn't maximizing out the hardware on either machine
  4. Therefore a difference is noticeable but not exaggerated as both machines are within limits.
  5. PS5 clocked higher due to advanced cooling patent in the public domain but not guaranteed to be used
  6. Scarlett isn't using a Big Navi die due the marketing render
  7. Phil Spencer has still backed off the performance leader talk. So assumed weaker overall.
  8. Edit: both are final hardware - unlikely. APUs are not finalized yet
So in the best case scenario Scarlett gets a spec bump making it one CU notch below the PS5.
  • PS5 4se 72a/80 @ 2000 = 18.4 TF
  • Scarlett 3se 66a/72 @ 1850 = 15.6 TF
A power diff of 17% which you could pass off as barely noticeable to the naked eye in this situation.
Okay so Kleegamefan says that neither platform will be 9TFs and that the performance difference will be a sliver, and yet you somehow managed to translate that into an additional 9TFs AND a 17% power difference?

 
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DJ12

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Okay so Kleegamefan says that neither platform will be 9TFs and that the performance difference will be a sliver, and yet you somehow managed to translate that into an additional 9TFs AND a 17% power difference?

At least he consistant, as apposed to all the weak console crew constantly changing their predictions when there "evidence" is disproved.

Few pages back, there was no way there was EUV, yet here we are with that being likely.

Which "fact" will be next to go I wonder.
 
Dec 12, 2006
2,802
374
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Just how exactly does that equal the difference between original xbone and the xbone s?
Okay so Kleegamefan says that neither platform will be 9TFs and that the performance difference will be a sliver, and yet you somehow managed to translate that into an additional 9TFs AND a 17% power difference?

A difference of 6 active CUs is not an insignificant performance gap to close. Especially if we're already looking at a 2000 clock.
 

Mass Shift

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Jun 12, 2019
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A difference of 6 active CUs is not an insignificant performance gap to close. Especially if we're already looking at a 2000 clock.
We don't know what the CU count is for the PS5. And we can't speak for MS yet either as we haven't had the same leaks from engineering samples on Scarlett.

Kleegamefan gave us an assurance on what the platforms performance wouldn't be. What he said was hardly the equivalent of running into the end zone expecting 18TFs.
 

vpance

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Jun 20, 2005
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If Reiner and Colin were saying PS5 was more powerful, and now they're basically the same, I guess Phil picked up the emergency AMD bat-phone?
 
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sonomamashine

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D DJ12 im still waiting for my alts names (based on your accusations), i would say the same thing about you since you only have 50 messages atm but i didnt because i would be assuming wich is stupid.
Feel free to drop those names.
 

MadAnon

Member
Sep 11, 2018
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The way I look at the Komachi situation is this...
  1. I have always been very vocal about relying on apisak and Komachi tweets
  2. One way or another they have access to information that others do not
  3. No one has stopped them distributing the information
  4. You'd have to assume that whoever's info is being trickling out they are fine with it
  5. They are fine with it because it's true and will not ultimately disappoint the potential consumers who follow this stuff
  6. Gonzalo/Flute were/are early APUs, not final
  7. The leaks are showing how the hardware is evolving through development, we are getting the highlights
  8. Oberon clock leak is the real deal. It would be difficult to reveal a lower clock after this, no?
  9. More info will be leaked when the time/opportunity is right?
  10. It will build to a crescendo where the whole config can be understood?
With these assumptions I revisited everything I thought about 14.2 TF and saw that the 2000 clock does look achievable and changed my target to 18.4 and posted as much on this thread.

Occam's Razor, not mental gymnastics.
Oh, suddenly you have always relyed on them and those are early samples. Let's pretend you didn't post this just a few pages ago after Oberon leak.

Can't understand why people put any stock into anything that Komachi or Apisak tweets about next gen. It's like the blind leading the blind.
Not blind guesses?

Gonzalo? Flute? Ok 😎

 
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Dec 12, 2006
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Oh, suddenly you rely on them and those are early samples. Let's pretend you didn't post this just a few pages ago.





Context changes if you look at them differently.

Which I did.

Gonzalo/Fluke were never powerful enough to be seen as final hardware, that is obvious. Which is the conclusion I jumped to initially.

But those leaks do make sense if they are treated as steps to a final destination which we have not yet reached.

These machines have been in development for years. If there's a cache of information to be leaked the problem won't be finding enough details to leak. There's probably mountains of the stuff.
 

MadAnon

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Sep 11, 2018
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Context changes if you look at them differently.

Which I did.

Gonzalo/Fluke were never powerful enough to be seen as final hardware, that is obvious. Which is the conclusion I jumped to initially.

But those leaks do make sense if they are treated as steps to a final destination which we have not yet reached.

These machines have been in development for years. If there's a cache of information to be leaked the problem won't be finding enough details to leak. There's probably mountains of the stuff.
So you just flat out made up your first point to suit your narrative again just like you select your puzzle pieces. As I needed any more reasons to not take anything you say seriously.

And only thing that has changed so far are just gpu clocks. Komachi already gave clues that this Oberon is connected with Gonzalo. And if those leaked benchmarks are anything to go by, the gpu part is nowhere near your dream scenario. It was more in line with 5700 cards. Besides Oberon is supposedly the codename for the gpu part.
 
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May 17, 2018
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From what I've read I'd assume:
  1. It's a third party title
  2. Third party titles wouldn't push the hardware as much as first party
  3. Power difference wouldn't be exploited to its fullest as the title isn't maximizing out the hardware on either machine
  4. Therefore a difference is noticeable but not exaggerated as both machines are within limits.
  5. PS5 clocked higher due to advanced cooling patent in the public domain but not guaranteed to be used
  6. Scarlett isn't using a Big Navi die due the marketing render
  7. Phil Spencer has still backed off the performance leader talk. So assumed weaker overall.
  8. Edit: both are final hardware - unlikely. APUs are not finalized yet
So in the best case scenario Scarlett gets a spec bump making it one CU notch below the PS5.
  • PS5 4se 72a/80 @ 2000 = 18.4 TF
  • Scarlett 3se 66a/72 @ 1850 = 15.6 TF
A power diff of 17% which you could pass off as barely noticeable to the naked eye in this situation.
Don't do drugs kids!
 
Dec 12, 2006
2,802
374
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So you just flat out made up your first point to suit your narrative again just like you select your puzzle pieces. As I needed any more reasons to not take anything you say seriously.

And only thing that has changed so far are just gpu clocks. Komachi already gave clues that this Oberon is connected with Gonzalo. And if those leaked benchmarks are anything to go by, the gpu part is nowhere near your dream scenario. It was more in line with 5700 cards.
Yes, I'm changing my mind when new information presents itself.

I'll no doubt change it again if there's reasons to do so.

Strong views, lightly held :)
 
Jun 12, 2014
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People someone with an account open in era could ask Kleegamefan if the GPU speed of ps5 is nearer 9.2 tf or 14.2... I think this way he will answer and we could have a much better idea about the actual speed.
 
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TLZ

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People someone with an account open in era could ask Kleegamefan if the GPU speed of ps5 is nearer 9.2 tf or 14.2... I think this way he will answer and we could have a much better idea about the actual speed.
I was just going to say that. Ask the guy if it exceeds a certain number, then we can have a range to work with.
 

Negotiator

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Every developer is excited about the cpu is saying “we no longer have to optimise code for console” .. which is another way of saying the crappy optimisation that works on pcs can now be ported to console. Triple A developers always use gpu compute anyway, they will care more about the 12 tf gpu rather than the 2 tf cpu.
2TF CPU? Where?! Even Cell wasn't that powerful...

CPU optimization isn't going anywhere. It's here to stay, especially if you consider the fact that Jaguar and Zen have some similarities (2 clusters of 4 cores) that will definitely require optimization.

Regarding GPU compute, RX 5700 seems to perform worse than RX 580 (XB1X GPU).



Consoles will definitely need something stronger than that for future-proofness.

  • PS5 4se 72a/80 @ 2000 = 18.4 TF
  • Scarlett 3se 66a/72 @ 1850 = 15.6 TF
18.4 TF is close to 24 TF GCN rasterization efficiency (4x GPU difference vs Scorpio).
 

SonGoku

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Aug 16, 2018
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it's already hiting in some areas of course you can't go beyond photo-real, but some aspects in some games looks already photo real.
What areas? Real time graphics have ample room for improvement
3D rendering is constantly evolving, new hardware enables new effects and techniques
if it's flawed then you should see clear difference in polys on 4 cars in the left side in example, if these model would be fully rendered with proportional increase in details you still wouldn't see clear differerce between left 2 cars.
You are missing the point adding geometry complexity endlesly without adding detail wont improve an object past a certain point, increased geometry complexity needs to be acompanied with increased detail, case in point GT photo mode models crank up the polygon counts and level of detail
Even games today would benefit from extra polygons
so you're telling that ps1 to ps2 leap wasn't biggest leap with playstation consoles and not gonne downhill from there?
No, im telling you the ps3->ps4 gap will be surpassed with next generations, there is gigantic room for improvement.
I also believe the switch from rasterization to raytracing in the next 20 years will match if not surpass ps1->ps2 jump
I fancy 54CU @ the rumored 2ghz.
It'll be either 52CU or 56CU
 
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Mass Shift

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Jun 12, 2019
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People someone with an account open in era could ask Kleegamefan if the GPU speed of ps5 is nearer 9.2 tf or 14.2... I think this way he will answer and we could have a much better idea about the actual speed.
That question has already been posed to him and it appears that there won't be a direct response anytime soon.

The whole exchange and what brought it about was interesting. To be clear he didn't at anytime discredit or dispute anything Komachi leaked, yet it was also clear that he felt compelled to respond to what HE felt were misguided assumptions about TFs as they related to the 2000GHz clock. Something Komachi never asserted. He also said that things could change, indicating that the spec might not be final.
 
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SonGoku

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One would think, right?

In either case I don't think Komachi's intention was to mislead or make up anything, he seems to be about as objective a source as we'll find with these leaks. He may just have unearthed a test clock for the GPU, or it may actually represent the final spec. We just don't know at this point.

Strange that we haven't seen similar tests of any engineering samples for Scarlett. Is Scarlett really RDNA2 or just elements of it?
if the leak is real expect anywhere from 11.2TF to 13.3TF, maybe even 14.3TF IF they are going all out
11TF should provide near 2080S performance, i'd be happy with that.

For me 10TF in 2020 would be comparable to PS4 1.8TF in 2013, if PS5 is $500 i would expect they'd at least reach 11TF
But i have my doubts, part of me thinks komachi and apisak are running a misinformation campaign
PS5 delayed ~2017 due to difficulties implementing BC (orig intended release 2019)
This reads like fud
SonGoku SonGoku SpinningBirdKick SpinningBirdKick

Your opinions on Kleegamefan's info?
Falls in line with my 11TF expectation or better put it doesn't contradict it
Minimal gap between consoles is expected

The reason for the "delay" in 2017 isn't convincing though
Even 24GB is looking hopelessly optimistic at this poin
Maybe... depends of who you ask
I think minimum 20GB for the memory bus, next gen bandwith should aim 600GB/s minimum
People someone with an account open in era could ask Kleegamefan if the GPU speed of ps5 is nearer 9.2 tf or 14.2... I think this way he will answer and we could have a much better idea about the actual speed.
That question has already been posed to him and it appears that there won't be a direct response anytime soon.
Can someone with a ree account dig down his post history
Im curious about the part where he mentioned delay because of BC
 
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